AiG: Finland School Shootings: The Sad Evolution Connection

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AiG: Finland School Shootings: The Sad Evolution Connection

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AiG wrote: This student

AiG wrote:
This student professed to be a “Social Darwinist,” which is a fancy way of saying he held to the religion of evolution.

"Fancy way?" 

AiG wrote:
School shootings in the US often now only invoke brief headlines because so many have occurred.

So the reason why you don't see school shootings in the paper is not because they're not happening.  It's because *so many* are happening that papers don't report them.  Yeah, that makes sense. 

"After Jesus was born, the Old Testament basically became a way for Bible publishers to keep their word count up." -Stephen Colbert


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Textom wrote: "Fancy

Textom wrote:
"Fancy way?"

"Fancy" is just a euphemism for "totally incorrect". Creationists talk about "fancy quoting" and "fancy science" and the like. It's a codeword!

Quote:
So the reason why you don't see school shootings in the paper is not because they're not happening. It's because *so many* are happening that papers don't report them. Yeah, that makes sense.

yeah the newspapers these days don't care about school shootings i blew away thirty people and only ended up on the same page as doonesbury and the weather

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Yeah, because unlike

Yeah, because unlike evolution, religion has never been used as an excuse to justify murder in history.

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Yeah, because unlike

Yeah, because unlike evolution, religion has never been used as an excuse to justify murder in history.

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jcgadfly
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I don't know what's

I don't know what's sadder...

the deaths or the way AiG is rubbing themselsves with glee at the thought of another way they can spin evolution to be "evil". 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: I don't

jcgadfly wrote:

I don't know what's sadder...

the deaths or the way AiG is rubbing themselsves with glee at the thought of another way they can spin evolution to be "evil".

Well, the shooting actually resulted in dead people, AIG's comments just result in dumb people.

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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What's really odd is that

What's really odd is that the kid was trying to correct what he considered a "failure of evolution" by exterminating the less fit. AIG then credits this act to following evolutionary ideas in a religious manner. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if this kid was a 'true believer' in the ToE wouldn't he have realized that evolution does not require willfull enforcers? That it can handle exterminating the weak perfectly fine on its own?

It actually seems like a failure to understand evolution and allow it to run its course is at fault here. Of course, there is no surprise that people misunderstand evolution with all the disinformation being spread by people like those at AIG. 

In actuality it seems this kid was freaking nuts. Nutty people do nutty things. But, in the end, he turned the gun on himself and through the power of almighty evolution one nutty set of genes was removed from the pool.

“Philosophers have argued for centuries about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, but materialists have always known it depends on whether they are jitterbugging or dancing cheek to cheek" -- Tom Robbins


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JeremiahSmith

JeremiahSmith wrote:
jcgadfly wrote:

I don't know what's sadder...

the deaths or the way AiG is rubbing themselsves with glee at the thought of another way they can spin evolution to be "evil".

Well, the shooting actually resulted in dead people, AIG's comments just result in dumb people.

But the nigh-orgasmic happiness that AiG's followers are getting from this story is freaking morbid.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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I only have time to skim

I only have time to skim through this while at work, but these are the standard "Do we have to teach it to you with a sledge hammer" mistakes that I noticed

Evolution is an -ism - Evolution is a process by which hereditary chage occurs in a population, whether we believe it or not.  The statement "Gene frequencies in a population change over time due to natural selection by environmental factors" make no statement of any moral or philosophy that one can logically make into an -ism.

Social Darwinism = Evolution - Social Darwinist this kid wasn't if we can take the quote from him at the top of the article to be his beliefs.  Social Darwinism is the idea that people are where they are because their breeding puts them there.  Its a sort of Calvanism of genetics that says experience and effort count for nothing in human society while Genes (or breeding, genetics wasn't a field when SD was created) determine every single last detail about you.

If a person were to actually apply something like evolution to society, we would find that a person's ofspring benifit from the parent's ability to adapt to the socio-economic environment.  The replicating unit are the ideas and attitudes (a kind of memetic replication) that shape how you approach society, the environment is society, and the selection presure is ones social health.  The only remotely Darwinian concept about society is where you start.

School Shooting the "Friuts of Humanism"

From the original Humanist manifesto

FIFTEENTH AND LAST: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow.

Humanism at one of its oldest core assertions holds that since this life is all we get (EIGHT: Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion.) that we should do everything we can to expand life for all people.  Gunning people down in the hallways of a school building isn't the fruits of Evolution and Humanism.  I think if we looked deep enough we'd find that its the fruits of people being told by religious leaders that "If evolution is true it means that there is no reason to be a decent person, good and evil are gone!"

The Regular Expressions of Humanistic Jones: Where one software Engineer will show the world that God is nothing more than an undefined pointer.


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jcgadfly wrote: But the

jcgadfly wrote:
But the nigh-orgasmic happiness that AiG's followers are getting from this story is freaking morbid.

Yeah, it's sick, but they didn't actually kill anybody. Let's try to keep things in perspective here. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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JeremiahSmith

JeremiahSmith wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:
But the nigh-orgasmic happiness that AiG's followers are getting from this story is freaking morbid.

Yeah, it's sick, but they didn't actually kill anybody. Let's try to keep things in perspective here.

sorry. Never been a big fan of Schadenfreude 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote: sorry.

jcgadfly wrote:
sorry. Never been a big fan of Schadenfreude

Schadenfreude ist die schönste Freude, denn sie kommt von Herzen. 

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Here is the guy's

Here is the guy's manifesto:

 

Quote:
Natural Selector’s Manifesto

How Did Natural Selection Turn Into Idiocratic Selection?

Today the process of natural selection is totally misguided. It has reversed. Human race has been devolving very long time for now. Retarded and stupid , weak-minded people are reproducing more and faster than the intelligent, strong-minded people. Laws protect the retarded majority which selects the leaders of society. Modern human race has not only betrayed its ancestors, but the future generations too. Homo Sapiens, HAH! It is more like a Homo Idioticus to me! When I look at people I see every day in society, school and everywhere... I can’t say I belong to same race as the lousy, miserable, arrogant, selfish human race! No! I have evolved one step above!

Naturality has been discriminated through religions, ideologies, laws and other mass delusion systems. Individual, who is going through his/hers natural power process and trying to live naturally, but is being told that the way he acts or thinks is wrong and stupid, will usually have some reactions which might be considered as "psychological disorders" by the establishment. In reality they are just natural reactions to the disruption of natural power process. They will have some of the following (depending on individual's personality): feelings of inferiority / superiority, hostility, aggression, frustration, depression, self-hatred / hatred towards other people, suicidal / homicidal thought etc... and it is completely normal.

Humans are just a species among other animals and world does not exist only for humans. Death and killing is not a tragedy, it happens in nature all the time between all species. Not all human lives are important or worth saving. Only superior (intelligent, self-aware, strong-minded) individuals should survive while inferior (stupid, retarded, weak-minded masses) should perish.

There is also another solution to the problem: stupid people as slaves and intelligent people as free. What I mean is that they who have free minds, are capable of intelligent existential and philosophical thinking and know what justice is, should be free and rulers... and the robotic masses, they can be slaves since they do not mind it now either and because their minds are on so retarded level. The gangsters that now rule societies, would of course get what they deserve.

Of course there is a final solution too: death of entire human race. It would solve every problem of humanity. The faster human race is wiped out from this planet, the better... no one should be left alive. I have no mercy for the scum of earth, the pathetic human race.

Collective Deindividualization: Totalitarianism & Delusions Of Democracy

Collective deindividualization is a phenomenon where individual will be trained as part of the mindless herd controlled by state, corporation, church or some other organization, group, ideology, religion or mass delusion system and adopt it's rules, morality and codes of conduct. This phenomenon has been familiar in all despotic, authoritarian, totalitarian, monarchist, communist, socialist, nazi, fascist and religious societies troughout history. Also, the modern western democratic republics have the same phenomenon. It is just done so that people will think they are free and don't realize they are being enslaved. Majority of people in society are weak-minded and ignorant retards, masses that act like programmed robots and accept voluntarily slavery. But not me! I am self-aware and realize what is going on in society! I have a free mind! And I choose to be free rather than live like a robot or slave. You can say I have a “god complex”, sure... then you have a “group complex”! Compared to you retarded masses, I am actually godlike.

Totalitarian governments rule people through education system, consumerism, mass media, monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force (police, military) and laws discriminating people who think differently than the majority. Democracy... you think democracy means freedom and justice? You are wrong. Democracy is a dictatorship of the moral majority... and the majority is manipulated and ruled by the state mafia. Modern western democracy has nothing to do with freedom or justice; it is totalitarian and corrupted system. Laws are made over the heads of the people and people are being brainwashed to support the system and connected to the institutional structures immediately after their birth. Societies are being ruled by manipulative and charismatic politicians who only care about the interests of majority, and who do not base their decisions on reason but emotions and feelings of the masses. These masses let the authorities of state to make all the important decisions for them. The masses will get an education, they study, get a job, go to work and vote in elections. They think they are free and don’t criticise or question the system. They have become robots. It is like a constructed mechanism in mind, that leaves little choice for an individual to think, talk and act independently.

Three Kinds Of Humans

There are three kinds of human personality types in this world:
1) individualistic human (3% of the world population)
2) manipulative human (3% of the world population)
3) mass human (94% of the world population)

#1 & #2 type of personalities are intelligent, creative and self-aware. They have chosen bit different paths paths. #3 type of personalities are less intelligent and less creative, weak-minded people controlled by #2 type of personalities. The percentages are only estimations though but are based on Gaussian distribution and history of human race and how humans have organized into societies. And this is the way it has always been ever since humans started to organize into communities.

Another way how to divide people is bit different but is based on the same facts, human nature and history. The division is based on the level of intelligence and quality of mentality:
1) intelligent (3% of the world population)
2) slightly retarded, so called “normal people” or “robots” (94% of the world population)
3) highly retarded, “vegetables” (3% of the world population)

Total War Against Humanity

Hate, Im so full of it and I love it. That is one thing I really love. Some time ago, I used to believe in humanity and I wanted to live a long and happy life... but then I woke up. I started to think deeper and realized things. But it was not easy to become existential... knowing as much as I know has made me unhappy, frustrated and angry. I just can’t be happy in the society or the reality I live. Due to long process of existential thinking, observing the society I live and some other things happened in my life... I have come to the point where I feel nothing but hate against humanity and human race.

Life is just a meaningless coincidence... result of long process of evolution and many several factors, causes and effects. However, life is also something that an individual wants and determines it to be. And I'm the dictator and god of my own life. And me, I have chosen my way. I am prepared to fight and die for my cause. I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection.

You might ask yourselves, why did I do this and what do I want. Well, most of you are too arrogant and closed-minded to understand... You will proprably say me that I am “insane”, “crazy”, “psychopath”, “criminal” or crap like that. No, the truth is that I am just an animl, a human, an individual, a dissident.

I have had enough. I don’t want to be part of this fucked up society. Like some other wise people have said in the past, human race is not worth fighting for or saving... only worth killing. But... When my enemies will run and hide in fear when mentioning my name... When the gangsters of the corrupted governments have been shot in the streets... When the rule of idioracy and the democratic system has been replaced with justice... When intelligent people are finally free and rule the society instead of the idiocratic rule of majority... In that great day of deliverance, you will know what I want.

Long live the revolution... revolution against the system, which enslaves not only the majority of weak-minded masses but also the small minority of strong-minded and intelligent individuals! If we want to live in a different world, we must act. We must rise against the enslaving, corrupted and totalitarian regimes and overthrow the tyrants, gangsters and the rule of idiocracy. I can’t alone change much but hopefully my actions will inspire all the intelligent people of the world and start some sort of revolution against the current systems. The system discriminating naturality and justice, is my enemy. The people living in the world of delusion and supporting this system are my enemies.

I am ready to die for a cause I know is right, just and true... even if I would lose or the battle would be only remembered as evil... I will rather fight and die than live a long and unhappy life.

And remember that this is my war, my ideas and my plans. Don’t blame anyone else for my actions than myself. Don’t blame my parents or my friends. I told nobody about my plans and I always kept them inside my mind only. Don’t blame the movies I see, the music I hear, the games I play or the books I read. No, they had nothing to do with this. This is my war: one man war against humanity, governments and weak-minded masses of the world! No mercy for the scum of the earth! HUMANITY IS OVERRATED! It's time to put NATURAL SELECTION & SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST back on tracks!

Justice renders to everyone his due.

- Pekka-Eric Auvinen (aka NaturalSelector89, Natural Selector, Sturmgeist89 and Sturmgeist).
I also use pseydonym Eric von Auffoin internationally.


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I recognize 'power process'

I recognize 'power process' from the Unabomber's manifesto; it being a bastardization of Nietzsche's 'will to power,' I think. I guess the kid needed inspiration. Do they have crap science education in Finland?


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mindspread wrote: I am at

mindspread wrote:
I am at a loss for words. 
One word comes to my mind...schizophrenia


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Quote: Let me summarize my

Quote:

Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear . . . . There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either

 

Evolution says nothing about 'God' and 'purpose'. It doesn't invoke one or rule one out.

 

Quote:

This student professed to be a “Social Darwinist,” which is a fancy way of saying he held to the religion of evolution

 

 

Or that he was a Social Darwinist. 

 

Quote:

When they are taught that there is no God, no right and wrong, people are animals, etc., then they may reason: “Why not kill or steal?” and so on. It is a logical connection.

 

What in evolution teaches those?

 


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This kid was an insane

This kid was an insane misanthrope with an extreme ego and paranoid, schizophrenic tendencies.

 His manifesto is just meaningless garbage justifying his own irrational angst and ego. His application of social darwinism is based on a complete misunderstanding of evolution, and "humanism" can hardly be blamed for his actions, any more than we would blame whatever idea any crazy person latched onto. His actions were borne from paranoia, a massive ego and pure insanity. That is all I can glean from his manifesto.


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magilum wrote:

magilum wrote:
I recognize 'power process' from the Unabomber's manifesto; it being a bastardization of Nietzsche's 'will to power,' I think. I guess the kid needed inspiration. Do they have crap science education in Finland?

Strangely enough, Finland has the number one ranked education system..

http://www.weforum.org/en/media/Latest%20Press%20Releases/GCRpressrelease06

Prudent fiscal policies have enabled governments to invest heavily in education, infrastructure and the maintenance of a broad array of social services. Finland, Denmark and Iceland have the best institutions in the world (ranked 1, 2 and 3, respectively) and, together with Sweden and Norway, hold top ten ranks for health and primary education. Finland, Denmark and Sweden also occupy the top three positions in the higher education and training pillar, where Finland’s top ranking is remarkable for its durability over time.

 

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This is listed as a source

This is listed as a source for the article:

Anonymous [missionary in Finland], email message to author from a missionary that listed the shooters recent post in detail, November 7, 2007. 

 

WTF? that's just weird.

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The irony is that he

The irony is that he rejected religion only to accept a cartoon caricature of evolution advanced solely by religious knuckleheads. It's a bit like being a literal 'satanist,' having to accept the biblical premise before celebrating its straw-man.