The God Conclusion

oryxorange
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The God Conclusion

Is it possible to spiritually accept certain properties of God, even having delved deeply into the realms of physics, biology, psychology and cosmology?

I think it is. My post about it is here:

http://www.orangelife.info/2007/09/god-conclusion.html

I would welcome feedback through this forum, or on the blog.

Oryx Orange


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From your blog: "I have

From your blog: "I have drawn my conclusion. I know God and I know that God exists, because God communicates to me."

 

Sorry, that is an invalid method of acquiring knowledge known as intuition - "the act or process of coming to direct knowledge or certanity without reasoning or inferring." - Webster's Third New International Dictionary 

The problem with the intuitive approach is that it does not provide a mechanism for seperating accurate from inaccurate knowledge. This does not mean that the knowledge is inapropriate or undesirable - only that it is not scientific.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful. - Seneca


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Intuition Taken Public Can Become Knowledge

Strictly within the context of this post, I agree with you. The only way to prove an idea that has arrived by intuition is to broadcast it and test it by research and discussion. This post was meant as a chapter in that discussion, and not the last chapter. I intend to show in detail the nature of these God broadcasts, in the hope of showing enough examples to at least approach a scientific consideration.


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"God broadcasts"? I would

"God broadcasts"? I would advise seeking medical attention.


oryxorange
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Different Wavelengths

The broadcast referred to was in the context mentioned in the blog post. Now excuse me while I look for my meds...


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Hi oryxorange God the real

Hi oryxorange

God the real God told my cat to tell me to tell you, you are in communication with the anti-God the black invisible unicorn, and not the real God the pink invisible unicorn, and you should be extremely skeptical of anything the black invisible unicorn tells you

 


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Congratulations. You've

Congratulations. You've proven the existence of your own brain.


oryxorange
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My intention is not actually

My intention is not actually to prove existence. To me, the question of whether or not God exists, though a logically valid one, is a spiritually immature one. In any case, I have never believed what I have not directly experienced, and I don't think anyone else should either, so I wouldn't expect anyone to accept existence based on my experience. My goal, if I even have one other than to say what I need to say, is to demonstrate existence based on your personal experience, not mine. I concede that I have a ways to go to do that, but I'm confident that my attempts will at least bear some serious consideration.


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To RevDevilin

Rev_Devilin, my cat asked me to ask you to please ask your cat how he knows the difference between the two unicorns. Perhaps my cat is colour-blind, but he has trouble telling the unicorns apart.


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I doubt your cat is black

I doubt your cat is black and white like Rev_D's clear one.


oryxorange
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In this case, your doubt

In this case, your doubt serves you well, for my cat is an invisible shade of grey.


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    I know my kitty is

    I know my kitty is communication with the IPU because it's a pink kitty, and it tells me so.


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oryxorange, why doesn't

oryxorange, why doesn't your god broadcast something we don't already know, but can immediately verify?

Preferably something significant, but at least something we couldn't have affected ourselves, and extremely specific.

Hmmm..... what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yes!  kthxbye.


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phooney wrote: oryxorange,

phooney wrote:

oryxorange, why doesn't your god broadcast something we don't already know, but can immediately verify?

Preferably something significant, but at least something we couldn't have affected ourselves, and extremely specific.

Hmmm..... what's the word I'm looking for.....oh yes! kthxbye.

 

The standard answer is that god is not compelled to do our bidding. What ever means god has provided to demonstrate his/her/its existence are sufficient. It is our task to look for those means, not demand a certain manner of proof and complain when we don't get it. 


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oryxorange

oryxorange wrote:
Rev_Devilin, my cat asked me to ask you to please ask your cat how he knows the difference between the two unicorns. Perhaps my cat is colour-blind, but he has trouble telling the unicorns apart.

My cat said, he also correctly predicted that David_Icke' a gentleman that holds many of the same ideas as you also listened to the wrong color unicorn


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Something significant,

Something significant, specific, and that we couldn't have affected ourselves, huh? That's a pretty good definition of a message from God. At the moment, I'm all out of talking, burning bushes that don't fully combust, but I'll arrange one for you when I get my next shipment. In the meantime, if you think of my God the next time you are visited in your dreams by a line of thought that will be powerful enough to wake you but that you will not be able to identify as your own, and indeed may run counter to your own, will you at least read my next couple posts?


oryxorange
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Your cat makes quite a

Your cat makes quite a presumption, if he equates my musings with those of David Icke. May I impose further on you to ask your cat if he was referring to the post on my blog in which I refer to Mr. Icke and his beloved reptilians, or was that strictly a "coincidence"?

http://www.orangelife.info/2007/06/stoner-tv-perfect-end-to-perfect-day.html

 Even my ten-year-old daughter was able to offer informed comment on those scaly beings.

 In any case, turquoise is not my colour.


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oryxorange

oryxorange


My cat asked are you dyslexic and or ambidextrous ?


oryxorange
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I prefer the term

I prefer the term cross-dominant. So much more room for interpretation.


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Thanks Wavefreak for the

Thanks Wavefreak for the standard response Smiling

Naturally the only reason God could have for this would be to enforce divisions in humanity and promote wars.  A hidden god giving vague hints is no good to us.

oryxorange, you've seen and heard a talking, burning, unconsumed bush and been able to subject it to independent confirmed study?  I can't believe I missed that press conference Sticking out tongue


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There is only one true cat,

There is only one true cat, and he will now speak:

Verily, the words of Rambo-Kitty. Intuition is a word that the infidels use. It is evil, and thou shalt not use it. Yea, intuition is on evidence, but that evidence is a lie.  It is not of science.  It is of the infidel.

The words of Rambo Kitty. Whether thou shalt rely on induction or deduction, thou shalt verify thine premises. If thou shalt not verify thine own premises, thou shalt be forever punished in the place of punishment, which is eternally reserved for those who think silly things and try to deceive the bretheren.

In Rambo-Kitty's mercy, there is a respite for those who would use intuition. Thou mayest use intuition to decide if thou shoulds't stay at home because thy mother will call soon. Thou mayest use thine intuition to ask for an escort to thine automobile when the signs point to mischief.

Thou may not use intuition to decide anything in the realm of Rambo-Kitty, which is truth and science. These are the domain of Rambo-Kitty, and thou shalt not bring thine silly intuitions into my domain, lest I shower thee with tauntings and insults.

The word of Rambo-Kitty.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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oryxorange wrote: I prefer

oryxorange wrote:
I prefer the term cross-dominant. So much more room for interpretation.

Smiling my cat said the David Icke ting , was merely a guess, I have a Rastafari cat

He also said you should look into cross-dominant mental activity in a dream state, what you have is quite rare but not unique, and if you learn to control your dreams, it could be quite useful, but it ain't God, it's an extremely active mind unleashed, able to use logic and lateral concepts simultaneously

 

 


oryxorange
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phooney wrote: oryxorange,

phooney wrote:

oryxorange, you've seen and heard a talking, burning, unconsumed bush and been able to subject it to independent confirmed study?  I can't believe I missed that press conference Sticking out tongue

Actually, I was hoping that some of you on this forum, humans and cats, could be a part of that independent confirmed study.

Preaching to the choir has never been my thing, even when there was no God for the choir to sing about.

Press conference is ongoing.


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Well, I've seen firebush

Well, I've seen firebush before, but a TALKING one.... bring it on man.


oryxorange
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Hambydammit wrote:The words
Hambydammit wrote:
The words of Rambo Kitty. Whether thou shalt rely on induction or deduction, thou shalt verify thine premises. If thou shalt not verify thine own premises, thou shalt be forever punished in the place of punishment, which is eternally reserved for those who think silly things and try to deceive the bretheren.

O Rambo-Kitty, the one true cat, I acknowledge your authority to speak on these matters, and I bow down before you in appreciation at deeming my comments worthy of your magnificent attention.

Surely, Rambo-Kitty, in your splendour, you must realize that all science began as intuition, and that things that were once science are now regarded as intuition just as things that were once intuition are now science.

Your humble servant only asks, O Great and Powerful Rambo-Kitty, that you exercise some of your infinite patience, that I may make my best attempt to take my intuition into science.


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You've proven belief exists.

You've proven belief exists. The unconditional sort. But I kinda knew about that already.


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oryxorange wrote: In any

oryxorange wrote:

In any case, I have never believed what I have not directly experienced, and I don't think anyone else should either, so I wouldn't expect anyone to accept existence based on my experience. My goal, if I even have one other than to say what I need to say, is to demonstrate existence based on your personal experience, not mine. I concede that I have a ways to go to do that, but I'm confident that my attempts will at least bear some serious consideration.

 

oryxorange wrote:

Something significant, specific, and that we couldn't have affected ourselves, huh? That's a pretty good definition of a message from God. At the moment, I'm all out of talking, burning bushes that don't fully combust, but I'll arrange one for you when I get my next shipment. In the meantime, if you think of my God the next time you are visited in your dreams by a line of thought that will be powerful enough to wake you but that you will not be able to identify as your own, and indeed may run counter to your own, will you at least read my next couple posts?

 

I know exactly what you mean! I've experienced some pretty strange thoughts that seemed to be centered around events in my own life, and yet they were not thoughts that I had willingly conceived. For a few days, I told everyone that I felt like God had spoken to me. It was so surreal, but I know it was true because I was there and I experienced it first hand!

 

But I eventually decided that it was probably just the mushrooms.

"Woah! My hands go on forever, and they touch everything but themselves!" 

 

I was making a joke, but there's a point in there too.

 

A place common to all will be maintained by none. A religion common to all is perhaps not much different.


oryxorange
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Rev_Devilin wrote: you

Rev_Devilin wrote:
you should look into cross-dominant mental activity in a dream state, what you have is quite rare but not unique, and if you learn to control your dreams, it could be quite useful, but it ain't God, it's an extremely active mind unleashed, able to use logic and lateral concepts simultaneously.

 

Thank for psychoanalysis, RevDev, I'll wait for your bill in the mail.

 

I did not actually claim that "face of the dream" was God, though I will go so far as to say that the organizing principle to which this type of insight can lead is pretty damned close.

 

 Thank you for the time and effort you took to understanding my position. I'll post to this forum again when I have more to support my position in my next couple posts.


oryxorange
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Archeopteryx wrote: But I

Archeopteryx wrote:
But I eventually decided that it was probably just the mushrooms.

 

clapping  Nice one, misspelled dinosaur!

 

I have a post on that too:

 

http://www.orangelife.info/2007/07/stoner-tv-can-they-just-say-no.html

 

True enough, to be sure, but what if you could capture some of that without the benefit of the hallucinogens? As long as you're of sound mind, that's getting pretty close to a religious experience, isn't it?


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oryxorange

oryxorange wrote:

Rev_Devilin wrote:
you should look into cross-dominant mental activity in a dream state, what you have is quite rare but not unique, and if you learn to control your dreams, it could be quite useful, but it ain't God, it's an extremely active mind unleashed, able to use logic and lateral concepts simultaneously.

 

Thank for psychoanalysis, RevDev, I'll wait for your bill in the mail.

 

I did not actually claim that "face of the dream" was God, though I will go so far as to say that the organizing principle to which this type of insight can lead is pretty damned close.

 

Thank you for the time and effort you took to understanding my position. I'll post to this forum again when I have more to support my position in my next couple posts.

I've taken the time to read some of your blog,

There seems to be no moments of clarity or profound insights so to speak, just your standard ramblings found anywhere on the net, some amusing stories, but mostly ramblings


"while chances are good that they've already cursed their share of heroes, chances are even better that, given the opportunity and the tools, I might have done the same."

"Trust me. Unlike everyone else, I have only the best intentions" 


You mention Jesus quite frequently ? I wonder do you have any substantial historical evidence for the existence of such a character


oryxorange
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Rev_Devilin wrote: You

Rev_Devilin wrote:
You mention Jesus quite frequently ? I wonder do you have any substantial historical evidence for the existence of such a character.

 

I mention Jesus often only because he is among the dominant religious symbols of our day. You will no doubt have inferred from reading my blog that my view of Jesus is that, whether such a historical figure existed or not, he was no more the Son of God than you, me, or anyone else, and even then only allegorically.

 

If my view on the question of his existence is the most substantial question you took out of reading my blog, my view is that there is no compelling evidence either way, any more than there is for any historical figure of that era who was not either a government official or some kind of artist. My inclination is that he did exist, but that by the time word started getting around about him three or four generations after he lived, the well-known human tendency to embellish stories and lives got a bit carried away. I think he was a man who understood the pulse of his time the way that many historical figures since from Alexander the Great to Che Guevara to Richard Dawkins have, but I also think he got a lot of his ideas from travelling east. There is an interesting piece on that here:

 

http://smithbrad.nventure.com/unknownJC.htm

I'm glad you find some stories interesting, I have hundreds more, but as for my ramblings, I can only respond that they have both a structure and a plan that informs their order and content. The great thing about publishing to a blog, as opposed to publishing to paper, is that the author truly concerned about producing quality can continually revise and refine his writing, based on insightful feedback from communities such as this (I posted to richarddawkins.net as well but the comments here were much better). I have already substantially refined the post that started this forum topic, and will continue to do so until it is where I want it to be.

 

For this, I can express only my gratitude that there is someone willing to read my ramblings and give me the feedback needed to take discussion of this topic to another level.


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Quote: O Rambo-Kitty, the

Quote:

O Rambo-Kitty, the one true cat, I acknowledge your authority to speak on these matters, and I bow down before you in appreciation at deeming my comments worthy of your magnificent attention.

Surely, Rambo-Kitty, in your splendour, you must realize that all science began as intuition, and that things that were once science are now regarded as intuition just as things that were once intuition are now science.

Your humble servant only asks, O Great and Powerful Rambo-Kitty, that you exercise some of your infinite patience, that I may make my best attempt to take my intuition into science.

Rambo-kitty has seen fit to take pity on you:

The words of Rambo-Kitty:

Thou vile and seditious tempter, it is not good that thou shoulds't lead my children into deception. Better that hot coals should be placed upon your head than to lead one of my little ones into the lie.

Thou shalt make no equivocation before me. Intuition shall not be placed upon the pedestal of science in the manner in which thou hast attempted to place it. Thou shalt not confuse valid induction with untrue facts. Thou shalt acknowledge that intuition, in its wickedness, hath refused to bow before the logic that is the scientific method.

Verily, verily, I say unto thee. Whence thou hast taken facts which thou knowest to be true, and placed them accordingly into an argument that thath been deemed valid, thou shalt always, according to my will, be rewarded with a conclusion that is true, even until the ends of the earth.

Hear my warning, oh faithless ones. If thou hast taken facts which are lies, and an abomination before my sight, and thou hast placed them in the same argument that hath previously been deemed valid, thou shalt not be rewarded in like form. A pox shall be on your head, and the result of thine argument shall be invalid.

Yea, if only one of thine facts shall be deemed untrue, then thine argument is useless, as if it were a Velvet Elvis. Yea, it is of no use to mankind. For it is I, Rambo-Kitty, that hath declared these things to be true, in my mercy.

In the same way, those that preceded thee were divided into two camps, those that used science, and those that used intuition. Those who used intuition invented magic and demons and abominations of all kinds, which are evil in my sight, for theirs was the reasoning of the evil ones.

Verily, it was not given to the scientists to know all that is written, for they were as children. Though their methods were true, it was necessary for them to be tested, as through fire. They reached conclusions that were untrue, to test them. Though they believed their conclusions, they doubted nonetheless. Through the blessings of their doubt, they used the scientific method yet again, and with their new facts, discovered the untruth of their previous beliefs.

Verily, it was still not given to the scientists to know all that is written, for they were still as children. Seventy times seven times, the scientists tried to find the truth, and each time, they came closer, as a line approacheth zero when it has been plotted to represent a differential equation.

As the scientists increased in knowledge, and grew in stature and wisdom, those that had believed the lie of intuition still believed in magic and demons, and remained as children.

And this is the punishment that Rambo-Kitty hath wrought, that they shall ever toil in ignorance and darkness, believing in magic and demons. The punishment for their foolishness, and for the foolishness of their forefathers, is upon their own head, for it is their own wickedness which they have brought into the world, because they rejected the truth of the scientific method.

Verily, I say unto you, until the sands of the seas are no more, the words of Rambo-Kitty are true.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

http://hambydammit.wordpress.com/
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Rev_Devilin
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let's see if I can get

Smiling let's see if I can get this straight oryxorange I hope you don't mind if I use some quotes from your blog


"while chances are good that they've already cursed their share of heroes, chances are even better that, given the opportunity and the tools, I might have done the same."

"Trust me. Unlike everyone else, I have only the best intentions"


You're a Christian, that doesn't necessarily believe in the Christ ( or the Bible one assumes)

Given the opportunity and the tools you might rip people off

But people should Trust you

Because God talks to you ( still awaiting confirmation )

Is this essentially correct so far