Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

On another forum I recently asked a bible literalist where in the bible is it explicitly stated that paedophilia is evil.

A different theist responded with...

Luke 17:2

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Comments?


floatingegg
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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Luke 17:2 could refer to the killing of children. It seems kind of vague to me, and I doubt the Bible has anything to say about paedophilia, which is a sexual attraction to prepubescent children.


Abandoned_Mind
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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Well if I can trust the news about the priests and ministers with boys and girls, I would also think the buybull is vague about it.

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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

floatingegg wrote:
Luke 17:2 could refer to the killing of children.

I rather thought "little ones" could be adults; e.g. the meek, the powerless, those weak in their faith. But I don't know.


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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Abandoned_Mind wrote:
Well if I can trust the news about the priests and ministers with boys and girls, I would also think the buybull is vague about it.

Sure, though I am coming more from an absolute vs. relative morality angle in posting the verse here.


Philosophos
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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

"Offend" is a crappy translation. The Greek word here is σκανδαλίζω, or "skandalizo," kinda like "scandalize." What it means is more to lead the "little ones" to "stumble ethically" or made to offend, more than to "offend" the kid himself.

I guess this verse can still be interpreted as "don't be a pedophile" only if you interpret this to mean that the kid's to blame, too. Y'know - he shouldn't have been wearing those sexy overalls or whatever. But not only is this a huge stretch of language, it's also a morally reprehensible interpretation, as it places blame on the victim.

A more typical Christian response is to point to the many passages that chastise πορνεία, or "porneia." This word is usually translated as "fornication," an is interpreted by Christians as general sexual immorality, which means essentially whatever the beholder doesn't like. This is a questionable, but plausible, interpretation. Non-biblical Greek sources seem to use this word pretty much for prostitution. And this at least fits for almost all uses of the term in the NT (and other interpretations explicitly don't fit in some instances: e.g. John 8:41). And "prostitution" is also a perfect fit for "idolatry," for which this word is used metaphorically in some instances (e.g. Revelation). But there are some instances where porneia is more than prostitution in the NT, such as 1 Cor 5:1.

Overall, I feel that "harlotry" is the best interpretation for all uses of πορνεία in the NT, with the exception of Paul, who seems to use it as "icky sex," but I'm ultimately undecided on the matter. Probably any honest person would admit there's some wiggle here.

One other attempt I've seen to answer your question is 1 Cor 6:9, which uses the word μαλακός, or "malakos" which means "soft." Just as we sometime use the term, this can also mean "effeminate," a push-over (e.g. a "softy"Eye-wink and is sometimes said of young boys. It's usually translated as "effeminate" in 1 Cor 6:9. I've heard that because this term is sometimes applied to young boys, however, Paul can be understood here to be prohibiting pedophilia. Just read the verse, however, and you can see how this is such a stretch that it puts even Mr. Fantastic to shame.

So, in short, there's no explicit verse that forbids pedophilia. Of course, you should be married to the 12 year old should you choose it. But otherwise, go for it. Eye-wink


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Re: Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

rickyroma wrote:
On another forum I recently asked a bible literalist where in the bible is it explicitly stated that paedophilia is evil.

A different theist responded with...

Luke 17:2

It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and be cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.

Comments?


I am still to see where in the Bible does it state that browsing Internet porn / offline porn magazines is a bad thing to do...

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


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Re: Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Rigor_OMortis wrote:

I am still to see where in the Bible does it state that browsing Internet porn / offline porn magazines is a bad thing to do...

If it gives you a boner and it's not your wife, its a sin.
Also, anything that feels good is usually a sin...


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Re: Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

the_avenging_bucket wrote:
If it gives you a boner and it's not your wife, its a sin.
Also, anything that feels good is usually a sin...

As Adam Ferrarra once put it:
"Basically, the Catholic religion sais 'if it feels good, stop'!"

Inquisition - "The flames are all long gone, but the pain lingers on..."
http://rigoromortis.blogspot.com/


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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Philosophos wrote:
"Offend" is a crappy translation. The Greek word here is σκανδαλίζω, or "skandalizo," kinda like "scandalize." What it means is more to lead the "little ones" to "stumble ethically" or made to offend, more than to "offend" the kid himself.

I guess this verse can still be interpreted as "don't be a pedophile" only if you interpret this to mean that the kid's to blame, too. Y'know - he shouldn't have been wearing those sexy overalls or whatever. But not only is this a huge stretch of language, it's also a morally reprehensible interpretation, as it places blame on the victim.

A more typical Christian response is to point to the many passages that chastise πορνεία, or "porneia." This word is usually translated as "fornication," an is interpreted by Christians as general sexual immorality, which means essentially whatever the beholder doesn't like. This is a questionable, but plausible, interpretation. Non-biblical Greek sources seem to use this word pretty much for prostitution. And this at least fits for almost all uses of the term in the NT (and other interpretations explicitly don't fit in some instances: e.g. John 8:41). And "prostitution" is also a perfect fit for "idolatry," for which this word is used metaphorically in some instances (e.g. Revelation). But there are some instances where porneia is more than prostitution in the NT, such as 1 Cor 5:1.

Overall, I feel that "harlotry" is the best interpretation for all uses of πορνεία in the NT, with the exception of Paul, who seems to use it as "icky sex," but I'm ultimately undecided on the matter. Probably any honest person would admit there's some wiggle here.

One other attempt I've seen to answer your question is 1 Cor 6:9, which uses the word μαλακός, or "malakos" which means "soft." Just as we sometime use the term, this can also mean "effeminate," a push-over (e.g. a "softy"Eye-wink and is sometimes said of young boys. It's usually translated as "effeminate" in 1 Cor 6:9. I've heard that because this term is sometimes applied to young boys, however, Paul can be understood here to be prohibiting pedophilia. Just read the verse, however, and you can see how this is such a stretch that it puts even Mr. Fantastic to shame.


Wow what a comprehensive explanation thanks, Phil!

Quote:
So, in short, there's no explicit verse that forbids pedophilia. Of course, you should be married to the 12 year old should you choose it. But otherwise, go for it. Eye-wink

Can do! You have thoroughly researched the bible for where exactly one can put one's dick and still make it into heaven... Eye-wink


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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

Philosophos wrote:
One other attempt I've seen to answer your question is 1 Cor 6:9, which uses the word μαλακός, or "malakos" which means "soft." Just as we sometime use the term, this can also mean "effeminate," a push-over (e.g. a "softy"Eye-wink and is sometimes said of young boys. It's usually translated as "effeminate" in 1 Cor 6:9. I've heard that because this term is sometimes applied to young boys, however, Paul can be understood here to be prohibiting pedophilia. Just read the verse, however, and you can see how this is such a stretch that it puts even Mr. Fantastic to shame.

KJV 1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ 1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [10] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at that. They made it homosexuals in more modern versions. No mention of stoners I'm glad to see.


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Re: Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

the_avenging_bucket wrote:
Rigor_OMortis wrote:

I am still to see where in the Bible does it state that browsing Internet porn / offline porn magazines is a bad thing to do...

If it gives you a boner and it's not your wife, its a sin.
Also, anything that feels good is usually a sin...


So I'm gonna suffer endless agonising terror for the occasional wank. Sheesh, might as well become a serial rapist then. I mean if one's going to be punished anyway might as well go for it.


Darl
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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

As Reverend Lovejoy would say, from the simpsons. 'even going to the bathroom' is a sin.


Philosophos
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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

rickyroma wrote:
KJV 1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, [10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

NKJ 1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, [10] nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Look at that. They made it homosexuals in more modern versions. No mention of stoners I'm glad to see.


Damn. That's bad.

If I were to play "mistranslator's advocate," though, I can almost see this. If you know a little Greek, I would make the argument that you can see that Paul is a Jew for sure. He uses Greek words in ways that Hellenized people don't really use them (I think "porneia" is a very good example, for which I argued above). The Greeks wouldn't have used such a word to describe homosexuals since they thought it was okay at the end of the day, but it's at least plausible that Paul may have. He's a Greek-speaker, but also approaches certain moral views from a blatantly Jewish slant. So, it's not completely retarded to think that Paul may have meant homosexuals in this case. I'd say it's not clear, but it's not retarded either.

Again, I barely know any Greek, but from my limited knowledge, Paul's Hebrew background really emerges for me when I look at Paul's writings in Greek, and compare them to both non-Christian Greek sources and even, I would say, the Gospels.


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Where is it explicitly stated paedophilia is evil?

this documentary may illuminate you to some of judaism's writings.

as you know modern judaism is not just the 'old testament'

the other israel:

http://opposingdigits.com/vlog/?p=31

also look up the story of zeus (jupiter) and ganymede (aquarius)

the greeks used this to justify their behavior.
having a boy lover as well as a wife was acceptable to them.

this belief and correlating beliefs justified the behavior for a long time,
and still does today. pedophiles with power and money in all walks of life.

not just in the military..
even in the media, child prevention programs and anti-corruption bodies.

world tragedy.