What doctrine is not in the Bible?

Technarch
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What doctrine is not in the Bible?

There are a number of beliefs from the church and the surrounding Christian culture that are taken for granted as Christian doctrine but are not actually in the Bible. Name as many as you can think of.

-The first pope was St Peter or St Paul
-The talking serpent in the garden of Eden is Satan. The fruit eaten was an apple
-The one given power over the world in Revelations 13 is the Antichrist
-Jesus states he is the son of God
-Jesus states he is God
-Jesus states he is a trinity of father/son/holy ghost
-The events in Revelations and the second coming are about the future hundreds or thousands of years after the time of Jesus, not during the active Roman empire during the time of Nero
-Angels, demons and Satan are as they appear in medieval/rennaisance paintings
-Christ was born December 25th and visited by three kings
-Heaven and Hell are an invisible dimension separate from Earth and the physical universe


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Freewill.

Freewill.


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- To get closer to the star

- To get closer to the star of the east you have to head west.


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The ascension of St Mary is

The ascension of St Mary is not in the Bible either.

Communion, and the eating the bread as the body of Christ, and wine as the blood of christ 

In fact, very little of Christian doctrine is in the Bible. Much of it was made up by the Catholic Ecumenical councils. A great deal of it seems to be about control and money. For instance, the fear of hell was used to keep the masses controlled. Money was stolen from these same masses by the church promising to purchase insurance on their soul.

For a great deal of history, the Church operated like a moral pez dispenser. Got a dead unbaptized baby in purgatory (also made up by the church)? We can get him out for a nominal fee!

Very little of what we would call "Christianity" is in the Bible. And none of what we call "Catholicism" is in the Bible. 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

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Purgatory - It was invented

Purgatory - It was invented by the catholic church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory 

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thingy wrote: - To get

thingy wrote:
- To get closer to the star of the east you have to head west.

This is hilarious. I can't believe I've never heard this criticism of the Bible before. 

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JeremiahSmith

JeremiahSmith wrote:

thingy wrote:
- To get closer to the star of the east you have to head west.

This is hilarious. I can't believe I've never heard this criticism of the Bible before.

Unfortunately it's not what the OP was asking for, but it is right.  I've seen this one a number of time and even Rook has it in his bible contradictions thread.

Rook Hawkins wrote:
(1) "Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born king of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east,...." (Matt. 2:1-2). Since the wise men were east of Jesus, how could an eastern star or a star east of them tell them anything?

There's also numerous occasions where people went north to get to a town that was south-west of their current location and a bit more stuff like that ... 

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I'm surprised you guys

I'm surprised you guys haven't mentioned this one yet.  Jesus never said the Golden Rule.

 

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What about the fact that

What about the fact that Nazareth (the town where Jesus was supposedly born) wasn't even settled until a couple centuries later?

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There's nothing I'm aware

There's nothing I'm aware of in the bible about abortion.

 

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Nothing about Jesus being

Nothing about Jesus being on a cross! The word used in the orginal greek was "Stavross" which is a stake - in fact it's where the word "Staff" comes from. The cross shape was from another god called "Tamuz" - the T standing for his name. Christians rip so much off from other religions.

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There's nothing in the

There's nothing in the Bible forbidding pedophilia that I've found.  It's almost as if the catholic priests who wrote much of the thing partook in diddling the chilrens !!

I know it's crazy talk !

You can't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....but you can pick up that hot lookin' 2nd grader, no problem.

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Quote: Nothing about Jesus

Quote:
Nothing about Jesus being on a cross! The word used in the orginal greek was "Stavross" which is a stake - in fact it's where the word "Staff" comes from. The cross shape was from another god called "Tamuz" - the T standing for his name. Christians rip so much off from other religions.

que?

I've not heard this before.  Is this something rook found, or did you see it somewhere else.  I'd love to read up on this.

 

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Randalllord

Randalllord wrote:

Purgatory - It was invented by the catholic church.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purgatory

I think purgatory is part of the apocrypha, part of the Catholic bible. I couldn't find the verse anywhere. I also recall there was reference to it in the New Testament, but the prodestant church removed it. I'll have to do more research on that.

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I found this, for what it's

I found this, for what it's worth:

Catholics did not “invent” the doctrine of purgatory, or even coin the phrase “State of Purgation.” The doctrine is a legitimate outgrowth of Jewish belief. We must take the Bible as an organic whole, not simply selecting certain verses on which to build theologies. Jesus corrected the Jews concerning divorce in Matt 19:3-6. He also taught that the fires of Gehenna would be everlasting in contrast to the Jewish belief that would be a time limitation of 12 months. Jesus did not come to change the law, but He did clarify certain aspects. It stands to reason that if the Jews were wrong about their belief in a state of purgation. Jesus would have had a moral responsibility to correct them; this he did not do.

When NT passages, such as 1 Cor 3:13-15; Rev. 5:3, 13; 21:27; Matt 5:25-26, 12:32; 1 Pet 3:18-20; 1 Jn. 5:16; and Lk 12:58f are examined in the light of Jewish belief their meaning becomes clear. Souls must be purified before they can enter heaven's gate; God’s justice demands it.

explaining purgatory

 

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Hambydammit

Hambydammit wrote:

Quote:
Nothing about Jesus being on a cross! The word used in the orginal greek was "Stavross" which is a stake - in fact it's where the word "Staff" comes from. The cross shape was from another god called "Tamuz" - the T standing for his name. Christians rip so much off from other religions.

que?

I've not heard this before.  Is this something rook found, or did you see it somewhere else.  I'd love to read up on this.

 

 

It's in "Losing Faith in Faith."

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Free Will also isn't in

Free Will also isn't in the  Bible.


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MattShizzle wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:
What about the fact that Nazareth (the town where Jesus was supposedly born) wasn't even settled until a couple centuries later?

it seems like you really know your stuff.

How can do I refute this, Christians keep bringing it up.

Tell me its not for rizzle mattshizzle 

 

Here read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus

Notice this part "A small minority [2]argue that Jesus never existed as a historical figure, but merely as a metaphorical or mythical figure syncretized from various non-Abrahamic deities and heroes.[3]"

Click on the orange 2

here is what it says "The nonhistoricity thesis has always been controversial, and it has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines and religious creeds. ... Biblical scholars and classical historians now regard it as effectively refuted." - Robert E. Van Voorst, Jesus Outside the New Testament: An Introduction to the Ancient Evidence (Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 2000), p. 16.

 


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the monroe doctrine, the

the monroe doctrine, the zero percent doctrine, the dean smith doctrine of coaching basketball. come on people, for a "rational group" you guys sure like to have fun.

if you would have correctly titled this post "christian doctrines not found in the bible," your answer should have been "none."

we cannot define "christian doctrine" as "anything stated by one who calls himself a believer in jesus christ." it must be "doctrines that should be agreed upon by all christians, using the bible as the primary source of inspiration." come on rational thinkers, arent you smart enough to realize this, or are you just playing games?

disagreements worth arguing over, such as jesus' claim to be god should be sorted out using exegetical arguments. not all "christian doctrines" are biblical, thus therefore should be kicked aside.


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  Technarch wrote: -The

 

Technarch wrote:

-The talking serpent in the garden of Eden is Satan. The fruit eaten was an apple

Revelation 12:9- And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world--he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him. (ESV)

-we can see that John already understood this analogy.  Genesis doesn't explicitely say "The serpent was Satan," but it if nothing else certainly was a shadow of Satan.  the serpent was a crafty deceiver, it was cursed to be an enemy of man, and it is prophecied in Genesis 3:15 what Jesus would do to Satan.

Quote:
-The one given power over the world in Revelations 13 is the Antichrist

-where is this book of revelations you speak of? 

Quote:
-Jesus states he is the son of God

John the baptist did, as well as the disciples. it is in God's word, so doesnt that mean that God said it too? 

Quote:
-Jesus states he is God

bah, let's see...jesus claimed to be able to forgive sins.  jesus said that if his disciples didnt worship him, the rocks would.  jesus called himself the "son of man," fulfilling old testament prophecy that was easilly understood by the jews.  jesus said "the father and i are one, if you have seen me you have also seen the father.  im sure there are more, but four is three more than enough.

Quote:
-Angels, demons and Satan are as they appear in medieval/rennaisance paintings

-wow, just wow. 

Quote:
-Christ was born December 25th and visited by three kings

again, i didnt know this was christian doctrine, i feel like im losing my faith!


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American Atheist

American Atheist wrote:
Freewill.

 

probably the best point made by anyone in this post, although this is greatly debated by christians.  i look to...

Genesis 4:7, where God tells cain "if you do well, you will be accepted," and "you must master [sin]."

Galatians 5:1 -It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

i know there should be more, but i think these are enough to say, "free will could be a biblical concept" 

 


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thingy wrote:

thingy wrote:
- To get closer to the star of the east you have to head west.

i found this using google, dont know how reliable it is, but it does at least point out some of your own misconceptions that i picked up on just by reading your question. read the "clearing up misconceptions" part.

 

---sorry, i forgot to add the link the first time.

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/am/v1/n2/star-of-bethlehem 


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deludedgod wrote: Very

deludedgod wrote:

Very little of what we would call "Christianity" is in the Bible. And none of what we call "Catholicism" is in the Bible.

what bible have you been reading?  what do you define as christianity?  back to my point, things christians do, dont make them christian things to do.  the bible doesnt say that you should cheer on your favorite college team (go gators), but thousands of christians do it, does this make it a christian thing to do?  no.  let's get back to the meaning of christian doctrine, it has to be derived from scripture.   


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Hambydammit wrote: I'm

Hambydammit wrote:

I'm surprised you guys haven't mentioned this one yet. Jesus never said the Golden Rule.

 

yeh, the "great commission" isnt in the bible either. what does this prove? 


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MattShizzle wrote: What

MattShizzle wrote:
What about the fact that Nazareth (the town where Jesus was supposedly born) wasn't even settled until a couple centuries later?

 

wow, youre right. the bible says nothing about jesus being born in nazareth!  what are we to do?!

check out "case for christ" by lee strobel.  most of you claim to own this book so pull it off the shelf, dust it off, and read what it says about this.

dont use the bias argument, because that is ad hominem, not accepted around here!!  btw, atheists are just as biased as christians on all topics "God."  


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MattShizzle wrote: Nothing

MattShizzle wrote:

Nothing about Jesus being on a cross! The word used in the orginal greek was "Stavross" which is a stake - in fact it's where the word "Staff" comes from. The cross shape was from another god called "Tamuz" - the T standing for his name. Christians rip so much off from other religions.

 

what?  please show your source.  the cross was used by the romans to execute the most dispicable criminals.  it was used during the time of Jesus, so your argument seems fleeting to me.  


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who labeled me a theist. Was

Ok so now you label me a theist. Let us understand that the man Jesus has been proven over and over yet you guys still don't listen to the facts.


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AmericanIdle

AmericanIdle wrote:

There's nothing in the Bible forbidding pedophilia that I've found. It's almost as if the catholic priests who wrote much of the thing partook in diddling the chilrens !!

I know it's crazy talk !

You can't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....but you can pick up that hot lookin' 2nd grader, no problem.

check in leviticus. 


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deludedgod wrote: The

deludedgod wrote:

The ascension of St Mary is not in the Bible either.

I'm assuming this is a Catholic belief, and it isn't in the Bible this is why i'm not a Catholic. 

deludedgod wrote:

Communion, and the eating the bread as the body of Christ, and wine as the blood of christ

Actually this is in the Bible.

Matthew 26:

 26While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body."

 27Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you. 28This is my blood of the[b] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29I tell you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom."

 

strike one

 

Mark 14:22While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take it; this is my body."

 23Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, and they all drank from it.

 24"This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many," he said to them. 25"I tell you the truth, I will not drink again of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it anew in the kingdom of God."

 

strike 2

 

Luke 22:19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."

 20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

streeeeike 3 your out. 

 

 

deludedgod wrote:

 

In fact, very little of Christian doctrine is in the Bible. Much of it was made up by the Catholic Ecumenical councils. A great deal of it seems to be about control and money. For instance, the fear of hell was used to keep the masses controlled. Money was stolen from these same masses by the church promising to purchase insurance on their soul.

Before the Catholics hell was a happy place where we all hung out and made smores over the fire. 

deludedgod wrote:

For a great deal of history, the Church operated like a moral pez dispenser. Got a dead unbaptized baby in purgatory (also made up by the church)? We can get him out for a nominal fee!

Another Catholic belief not biblical. 

deludedgod wrote:

Very little of what we would call "Christianity" is in the Bible. And none of what we call "Catholicism" is in the Bible.

Actually the Bible is where we get our beliefs. Don't know where you got that from. 


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yoyoyoyo

yoyoyoyo wrote:
AmericanIdle wrote:

There's nothing in the Bible forbidding pedophilia that I've found. It's almost as if the catholic priests who wrote much of the thing partook in diddling the chilrens !!

I know it's crazy talk !

You can't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....but you can pick up that hot lookin' 2nd grader, no problem.

check in leviticus. 

 

1.) Show me.

2.) Is this supposed caution against pedophilia as reliable as these ?

Quote:
Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
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Hambydammit wrote: There's

Hambydammit wrote:

There's nothing I'm aware of in the bible about abortion.

 

we all know that the Bible says that murder is a sin in the Bible. So you have to ask when is it a child. Who creates the child. Is it the parents or is it God that creates it in the mothers womb. 

Jeremiah 1:5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew [a] you, 

 

This is God speaking, so you could say Before God formed you in the womb God knew you. So if you are killing God's creation I call it murder. But it does not specifically say abortion is wrong.  


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MattShizzle wrote: Nothing

MattShizzle wrote:

Nothing about Jesus being on a cross! The word used in the orginal greek was "Stavross" which is a stake - in fact it's where the word "Staff" comes from. The cross shape was from another god called "Tamuz" - the T standing for his name. Christians rip so much off from other religions.

matt, i did a little reading on this, it appears that you may be correct.  the words for cross in the NT are "stauros" and "xylon."  neither should be translated as "cross." they are "stake" or "tree."  some say that crossbeams were used sometimes.  im sure more research is needed to be sure here.  i know one of the common apologies for this is that jesus had HOLES (plural) in his hands. also that he later told peter his hands would be stretched out, although i dont know how strong this argument is.  

i dont see how this helps your case though.  jesus on the tree only helps his case. consider Deuteronomy 21:23, "anyone who is hung on a tree is under God's curse."  Numbers 21:9,  So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

see it doesnt hurt christians if the word is translated tree or stake.  the many pagan traditions that influenced christianity did nothing to change important doctrines. 

 

 

 


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deludedgod

deludedgod wrote:
Communion, and the eating the bread as the body of Christ, and wine as the blood of christ

Gump wrote:

Actually this is in the Bible.

[Quotes the Bible]

strike one

[Quotes the Bible]

strike 2

[Quotes the Bible]

streeeeike 3 your out.

Clever. I don't think duludedgod is saying that communion is not in the Bible. duludedgod is saying that the (Catholic) doctrine that the bread and wine literally become the flesh and blood of Jesus is not in the Bible.

Gump wrote:
Actually the Bible is where we get our beliefs. Don't know where you got that from.

There are many beliefs, practices, and jargon in Christianity (esp. in Roman Catholicism) that are extra-biblical. Most evangelicals convert people by having them recite "The Sinners Prayer." There's nothing in the bible about "having a personal relationship with Jesus." There's nothing in the Bible about keeping holidays like Christmas and Easter. There's nothing in the Bible about meeting on Sundays.


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AmericanIdle

AmericanIdle wrote:
yoyoyoyo wrote:
AmericanIdle wrote:

There's nothing in the Bible forbidding pedophilia that I've found. It's almost as if the catholic priests who wrote much of the thing partook in diddling the chilrens !!

I know it's crazy talk !

You can't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....but you can pick up that hot lookin' 2nd grader, no problem.

check in leviticus.

 

1.) Show me.

2.) Is this supposed caution against pedophilia as reliable as these ?

Quote:
Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever

 

it actually shocked me when i read your original statement, because i thought you guys loved to quote leviticus.

Leviticus 18:6-None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.

 


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MrRage wrote: Clever. I

MrRage wrote:
Clever. I don't think duludedgod is saying that communion is not in the Bible. duludedgod is saying that the (Catholic) doctrine that the bread and wine literally become the flesh and blood of Jesus is not in the Bible.

gump is not catholic, that's why he didnt know what deluged is talking about.  if you are an ex-catholic, you should at least take a look at "the ragamuffin gospel" by bennan manning.  manning is a catholic priest who realized that things werent right, it's worth checking out at least. if youre open minded. 

Quote:
There are many beliefs, practices, and jargon in Christianity (esp. in Roman Catholicism) that are extra-biblical. Most evangelicals convert people by having them recite "The Sinners Prayer." There's nothing in the bible about "having a personal relationship with Jesus." There's nothing in the Bible about keeping holidays like Christmas and Easter.

youre right, the sinner's prayer is no more effective than the blasphemy challenge unless it is backed by a contrite heart. 

the personal relationship im not so sure about.  the bible refers to the church as the "bride of christ."  the believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit.  i dont see anything wrong with this terminology. 

you are right about christmas and easter.  there is no reason why a christian should celebrate these holidays.  it might even be more appropriate to get rid of these holidays, biblically speaking. i would love to see christians remember the death and ressurection of christ every day rather than once a year.

Quote:
There's nothing in the Bible about meeting on Sundays.

actually, "the Lord's day" is the only consecrated day in the NT.   the sabbath is no longer kept after jesus.


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MrRage wrote:

MrRage wrote:
deludedgod wrote:
Communion, and the eating the bread as the body of Christ, and wine as the blood of christ
Gump wrote:
Actually this is in the Bible. [Quotes the Bible] strike one [Quotes the Bible] strike 2 [Quotes the Bible] streeeeike 3 your out.
Clever. I don't think duludedgod is saying that communion is not in the Bible. duludedgod is saying that the (Catholic) doctrine that the bread and wine literally become the flesh and blood of Jesus is not in the Bible.

Read the verses again Jesus says blood and body.

 

MrRage wrote:

Gump wrote:
Actually the Bible is where we get our beliefs. Don't know where you got that from.
There are many beliefs, practices, and jargon in Christianity (esp. in Roman Catholicism) that are extra-biblical. Most evangelicals convert people by having them recite "The Sinners Prayer."

A prayer doesn't save you. But Romans 10:9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

 

But it is a combination of things that are in the Bible. Jesus said to repent. So you need to repent of your sins then you need to confess that Christ is the Lord as is in this passage, and then you need to live your life for Christ, the Bible says

Luke 9:24For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it.

This is the 3 parts of the sinners prayer. But saying it doesn't save you. Meaning it will save you.

MrRage wrote:

There's nothing in the bible about "having a personal relationship with Jesus." There's nothing in the Bible about keeping holidays like Christmas and Easter. There's nothing in the Bible about meeting on Sundays.

well I think you have made a mistake.

As a personal relationship it is all over the Bible here is just one

John 10:14"(A)I am the good shepherd, and (B)I know My own and My own know Me,

 

Sunday is the day that Jesus rose from the dead and it was done out of remberance for Him.

Acts 20: 7 On (V)the first day of the week, when (W)we were gathered together to (X)break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

 

Remebering That Christ was born and his death and resurection is all through the Bible. Easter is ever Sunday. We are celebrating our risen Lord and Saviour. We do make it a big event one day a year, but look at Jewish history they did this for everything. 


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yoyoyoyo

yoyoyoyo wrote:
AmericanIdle wrote:
yoyoyoyo wrote:
AmericanIdle wrote:

There's nothing in the Bible forbidding pedophilia that I've found. It's almost as if the catholic priests who wrote much of the thing partook in diddling the chilrens !!

I know it's crazy talk !

You can't pick up sticks on the sabbath.....but you can pick up that hot lookin' 2nd grader, no problem.

check in leviticus.

1.) Show me.

2.) Is this supposed caution against pedophilia as reliable as these ?

Quote:
Leviticus 21:9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

25:45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
25:46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever

it actually shocked me when i read your original statement, because i thought you guys loved to quote leviticus.

Leviticus 18:6-None of you shall approach any one of his close relatives to uncover nakedness. I am the LORD.

 

This is what constitutes pedophilia prohibition to you ?  No wonder(mostly plagiarized) mythology is such an easy sell to you.

Since Leviticus (Old Testament) is still valid...apparently for you, tell me how many slaves do you own and how many people have you murdered to death by throwing rocks at them ?

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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AmericanIdle wrote: This is

AmericanIdle wrote:
This is what constitutes pedophilia prohibition to you ? No wonder(mostly plagiarized) mythology is such an easy sell to you.

Since Leviticus (Old Testament) is still valid...apparently for you, tell me how many slaves do you own and how many people have you murdered to death by throwing rocks at them ?

you guys fall back on this argument too often.  i dont have slaves because i dont think God has ordained it for me, i dont stone people because i dont think it is something a christian should do, not to mention that it is completely alien to our culture.  slaves in antiquity werent treated like slaves in modernity.  i would be interested to know if any other ancient documents tell a slave owner to treat a returning runaway slave "like a brother?" <-(paul).

 

as for the real topic, gump pointed out to me that my leviticus verse only mentions family, and since you object to me using the OT i will go NT. 

Ephesians 5:3- But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.

Luke 17:1-2-And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin

 these are just two verses, pretty much the first ones that came to mind, do these satisfy you?

 

 

 


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It seems I have missed out

It seems I have missed out on a great deal of discussion. To clarify, I refer exclusively to Catholicism, because they are very guilty of making up nonsense that is not in the Bible over the centuries. From Nicaea to Constantinople, the organization of the church, especially as set down in the Catechisms, has absolutely no bearing on original Christian theology.

A huge amount of it was made up so that the Church could swindle a very (very) large amount of money from their constituency. For instance, in the 17th Century, the Church had a fantastic time convincing the ignorant to purchase insurance against going to hell. They made enough money off that to finance the purchasing of unnecessary, expensive art and nice churches for the next century.

Catholic doctrine which is not in the Bible:

-Absurdely heirarchecal structure and the doctrine of Papal infallibility

-Sacrement and the literal

-apostilic succession

-Baptism and baby purgatory (something they have renounced because people thought it was appalling. What a suprise)

-Tri-omni and Trinitarian God (made up by First Vatican council)

-Aristotlean Cosmology

-Ascension of Mary

-Immediate ensoulment

-the Catholic doctrine of the liturgy

-Seven sacrements

-Eucharistic process, stations of the cross, rosary and benediction of the sacrements

-The absurd power structure of the church (claims to be divinely inspired)

-Clerical celebacy (I think this is an excellent doctrine, because the less children that the dioceses have, the less dioceses the Church will have)

All this would be fine were it not claimed to be divinely inspired, which is utter nonsense

 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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yoyoyoyo wrote: gump is not

yoyoyoyo wrote:
gump is not catholic, that's why he didnt know what deluged is talking about.

I would agree with that assessment.

yoyoyoyo wrote:
if you are an ex-catholic, you should at least take a look at "the ragamuffin gospel" by bennan manning. manning is a catholic priest who realized that things werent right, it's worth checking out at least. if youre open minded.

I'm an ex-evangelical. I'll read the book if the opportunity presents it self. I'll add it to my amazon.com wish-list at least. There's just too many books to read, you know.

yoyoyoyo wrote:
youre right, the sinner's prayer is no more effective than the blasphemy challenge unless it is backed by a contrite heart.

I understand that it's the heart not the prayer. But the prayer's not necessary, nor is it demanded in the Bible as far as I remember.

yoyoyoyo wrote:
the personal relationship im not so sure about. the bible refers to the church as the "bride of christ." the believer is indwelled by the Holy Spirit. i dont see anything wrong with this terminology.

I'm not saying that the Bible doesn't support the idea of a relationship with Jesus/God. But when people say. "Christianity is a relationship, not a religion" that's kinda a shaky thing. When someone asks an apostle in the book of Acts, "What must I do to be saved?" the response is never "Thou must have a relationship with Jesus Christ." That's how I meant it. It possible to argue from the Bible that a person can be "saved" but not be in fellowship with God/Jesus. This could not really be described as a relationship, because a relationship requires communication.

yoyoyoyo wrote:
actually, "the Lord's day" is the only consecrated day in the NT. the sabbath is no longer kept after jesus.

Ok. Yes "the Lord's day" is mentioned in Revelation 1:10.

But at the heart of it is the fact that how Christians worship on Sundays is only vaguely backed by the Bible. I don't think this is a problem though. The Bible is silent about a lot of issues.


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gump wrote: Read the verses

gump wrote:
Read the verses again Jesus says blood and body.

Read what I wrote again. Most non-Catholics interpret those passages allegorically.

gump wrote:
A prayer doesn't save you. [gump goes on telling me his view on how to be saved.]

Which is what my point was. Nowhere in the Bible (that I remember) does it say to say a prayer to be saved. The rest of it is up to debate (among Christians).

gump wrote:

well I think you have made a mistake.
As a personal relationship it is all over the Bible here is just one
John 10:14"(A)I am the good shepherd, and (B)I know My own and My own know Me,

See my response on this to yoyoyoyo above.

gump wrote:
Sunday is the day that Jesus rose from the dead and it was done out of remberance for Him.

I understand why Christians meet on Sundays. See my response on this to yoyoyoyo above.

gump wrote:
Acts 20: 7 On (V)the first day of the week, when (W)we were gathered together to (X)break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to leave the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

You notice that the met and ate a meal together (which more than likely involved communion.) Why don't Christians do that now?

gump wrote:
Remebering That Christ was born and his death and resurection is all through the Bible. Easter is ever Sunday. We are celebrating our risen Lord and Saviour.

I understand the concept. This doesn't address my point about Easter and Christmas. I'll also remind you of the pagan influences in those two holidays.

gump wrote:
We do make it a big event one day a year, but look at Jewish history they did this for everything.

The Jews had several festivals, but I don't see Christians celebrating them all.


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yoyoyoyo

yoyoyoyo wrote:
AmericanIdle wrote:
This is what constitutes pedophilia prohibition to you ? No wonder(mostly plagiarized) mythology is such an easy sell to you.

Since Leviticus (Old Testament) is still valid...apparently for you, tell me how many slaves do you own and how many people have you murdered to death by throwing rocks at them ?

you guys fall back on this argument too often.  i dont have slaves because i dont think God has ordained it for me, i dont stone people because i dont think it is something a christian should do, not to mention that it is completely alien to our culture.  slaves in antiquity werent treated like slaves in modernity.  i would be interested to know if any other ancient documents tell a slave owner to treat a returning runaway slave "like a brother?" <-(paul).

 

as for the real topic, gump pointed out to me that my leviticus verse only mentions family, and since you object to me using the OT i will go NT. 

Ephesians 5:3- But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.

Luke 17:1-2-And he said to his disciples, "Temptations to sin are sure to come, but woe to the one through whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin

 these are just two verses, pretty much the first ones that came to mind, do these satisfy you?

 

 

 

 

Who exactly has god ordained slavery/murder for ?  Just another example of picking and choosing verses that suits your needs/prejudice/petty hatreds and ignoring those that do not.  Your supposed god commands his followers to take slaves, and murder those he disagrees with by torture (in addition to numerous other vile commandments) and you rationalize this crap with things you couldn't possibly know and who any decent human being wouldn't even try to justify...such as slaves were treated better 2,000 yrs ago.  Have you been a slave? 

There are no verses in the bible that condemn pedophilia.  The "square" ones you desperately want to fit into a "round" hole just illustrate the typical dishonesty of a christian more vividly.  While we're on the topic of making up crap to fit into our made up box:  "Go your way and sin no more" is not a prohibition against pedophilia, gambling or extramarital sex either.

If a christian has the goal of being a living example of god and god is represented as love and honesty, why do you always seem to represent such the polar opposite ?

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."
George Orwell


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Some have mentioned that the

Some have mentioned that the Bible doesn't mention abortion and child sexual abuse. The Bible does NOT exhaustively specify what to do in every possible situation involving morals. For one, there are different moral questions today than there were in "biblical times." That doesn't mean that a Christian can't use principles in the Bible to decide on what he/she should or shouldn't do.

I think it's better if we stayed with those crazy doctrines that are definitely not in the Bible. Arguing what the Bible does or doesn't say about various moral issues is iffy. It's easy to justify a lot of moral positions using the Bible.


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yoyoyoyo wrote: American

yoyoyoyo wrote:

American Atheist wrote:
Freewill.

 

probably the best point made by anyone in this post, although this is greatly debated by christians. i look to...

Genesis 4:7, where God tells cain "if you do well, you will be accepted," and "you must master [sin]."

You look to the verse where god told Cain?

Quote:
Galatians 5:1 -It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

Really? The next verse says that I can't be circumsized. I don't know where my freewill is on that.

Quote:
i know there should be more, but i think these are enough to say, "free will could be a biblical concept"

*Shrugs*

Maybe.


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deludedgod wrote: It seems

deludedgod wrote:

It seems I have missed out on a great deal of discussion. To clarify, I refer exclusively to Catholicism, because they are very guilty of making up nonsense that is not in the Bible over the centuries. From Nicaea to Constantinople, the organization of the church, especially as set down in the Catechisms, has absolutely no bearing on original Christian theology.

A huge amount of it was made up so that the Church could swindle a very (very) large amount of money from their constituency. For instance, in the 17th Century, the Church had a fantastic time convincing the ignorant to purchase insurance against going to hell. They made enough money off that to finance the purchasing of unnecessary, expensive art and nice churches for the next century.

Catholic doctrine which is not in the Bible:

-Absurdely heirarchecal structure and the doctrine of Papal infallibility

-Sacrement and the literal

-apostilic succession

-Baptism and baby purgatory (something they have renounced because people thought it was appalling. What a suprise)

-Tri-omni and Trinitarian God (made up by First Vatican council)

-Aristotlean Cosmology

-Ascension of Mary

-Immediate ensoulment

-the Catholic doctrine of the liturgy

-Seven sacrements

-Eucharistic process, stations of the cross, rosary and benediction of the sacrements

-The absurd power structure of the church (claims to be divinely inspired)

-Clerical celebacy (I think this is an excellent doctrine, because the less children that the dioceses have, the less dioceses the Church will have)

All this would be fine were it not claimed to be divinely inspired, which is utter nonsense

 

I'm not sure what Tri-omni and Trinitarian God (made up by First Vatican council) is but to all the rest of what you have said, I agree completely. I do not understand how they have went so far away from the Bible. Even the Catholics don't put the apocrapha on par with scripture but most these beliefs come from these books. The whole praying to Mary thing, which is wrong to do, came from Mary and Jesus at the wedding when He turned water into wine. It seems as though Jesus says no but after the plea of Mary, his mother, He does it. So that have said that she has influence over Him. So when they pray they pray for Mary to ask Jesus to do something. But I beleive that Catholics have taken the heart out of being a Christian. I believe they have missed the whole point. 


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As to abortion, according

As to abortion, according to the BuyBull life begins at birth:

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/abortion.php

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I do not understand how

I do not understand how they have went so far away from the Bible. Even the Catholics don't put the apocrapha on par with scripture but most these beliefs come from these books. The whole praying to Mary thing, which is wrong to do, came from Mary and Jesus at the wedding when He turned water into wine. It seems as though Jesus says no but after the plea of Mary, his mother, He does it. So that have said that she has influence over Him. So when they pray they pray for Mary to ask Jesus to do something. But I beleive that Catholics have taken the heart out of being a Christian. I believe they have missed the whole point.

Indeed. Catholicism has essentially turned into a ritualization. I'm quite sure that if there is a God, He would surely care more that you are a good person then that you eat bread and drink burgundy wine as his body and blood. On the other extreme, evangelicalism has become almost militant, quasi-fanatical with their believe or burn approach. This is insane. I am also sure that if there is a God, he would surely nod more approvingly to the men who use reason and science to better the world than those who do nothing except quote bible verses under their breath and claim to be His men. And I am also sure that if there is a God, he would not be so sadistic and childish as to construct an eternal prison for those who had the misfortune to be born into another religious creed, or had perhaps commited the dangerous sin of thinking too much and questioning his existence.

So, on one hand, the Catholics are just silly, and the Evangelicals are appalling. I always thought religion should be a personal, spiritual experience. It should not be something that you attend a rigidly organized, canonized, ritualized, orthodox heirarchical ridiculous establishment claiming to be God's medium to Earth. 

"Physical reality” isn’t some arbitrary demarcation. It is defined in terms of what we can systematically investigate, directly or not, by means of our senses. It is preposterous to assert that the process of systematic scientific reasoning arbitrarily excludes “non-physical explanations” because the very notion of “non-physical explanation” is contradictory.

-Me

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  MattShizzle wrote: As

 

MattShizzle wrote:

As to abortion, according to the BuyBull life begins at birth:

http://www.ffrf.org/nontracts/abortion.php

I showed you Jeremiah 1:5 it says that God already knew him. He was a life and not just some cells

 

But anyway Mr. Shizzle you have not replied to my question about the wikipedia site. Most scholars say that the argument of the historicity of Jeus has been completely refuted. IT'S TRUE JESUS WAS ALIVE ON EARTH 


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First of all Wikipedia is

First of all Wikipedia is pretty much worthless - anyone can write an article for it. And it includes all the shit that's been refuted on here countless times.

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Hambydammit wrote: I'm

Hambydammit wrote:

I'm surprised you guys haven't mentioned this one yet.  Jesus never said the Golden Rule.

 

Matthew 7:12 (New International Version)

New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society


12So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.


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I thought that might have

I thought that might have been incorrect, though it certainly wasn't original to Jesus - similar things were said in Zoroastarism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc. And in fact they were a better worded "Do not do unto others what you would not have them do unto you" version. This is better because what if you are a masochist or have bizarre sexual desires - would it be good to "do unto others" the things you like having done to you?

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