Adam and Eve : 2 of the dumbest people in books
Posted on: February 17, 2008 - 3:36pm
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Adam and Eve : 2 of the dumbest people in books
I'm not a hardcore bible scholar, but I've always thought Adam and eve were retards. Adam and Eve were tricked into eating poison by a talking snake when they were just told by the "creator" it was poison and would kill them. How dumb can you be? I think a 6 year old could have lasted a lot longer in the garden of Eden than these 2 fools. And these 2 morons were supposedly created in "god's image" that makes "god" look bad. But then again I wouldn't expect an Einstein to made in the biblical god's image, someone like Adam seems much more appropriate..
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What if the people who believe that story in the first place are even bigger retards??
that's highly probable
I think this is a case of overreading into the text, something frequently levelled against fundamentalists. Every narrative has conflict/rise in plot? The lie is what provides the counter fact that the fruit may in fact be good and not bad. The cause to doubt is the thrust of the narrative. It has nothing to do with God's "image" but with mans choice to trust God or not.
The story of Adam and Eve, in my opinion, is one of the most interesting fables in the whole Bible. God orders Adam and Eve not to eat the fruit from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. If they do, they would die die that very day. The serpent says that isn't the case. He tells them that rather than dying, their eyes would be opened to know good and evil. Who was right? One might assume God would be.... but that isn't how the story turns out.
Neither Adam or Eve died from eating the fruit. They lived many years after and had many children. And their eyes were opened to know good and evil. What God had warned them did not come to pass. Instead, things turned out how the serpent said they would. This is just one of several passages in the Bible where God deceives or attempts to deceive man.
By the way, nothing in this text speaks of "spiritual death" or gives any hint that the death god speaks of was anything other than literal physical death. And God was not saying that man will simply become mortal the day he eats the fruit, leading him on a slow path of eventual death. God's warning, clear and unambiguous in the Hebrew text, is that they'd die die that very day. As a further note, there is nothing in Genesis implying that man was originally created immortal. In fact, the presence of the tree of life in the story is a clue that the original storytellers thought of mankind as created mortal, and mankind could only become immortal through of eating of its fruit.
The reason the moral of this story seems wrong and backwards from what we would expect, the reason is doesn't seem to fit with the rest of Genesis and the Bible, is that Genesis was not originally written from scratch as one coherent story. It is compilation of stories from various sources, imperfectly woven together. A lot of evidence points to many of the source stories originally being polytheistic, and not all the gods in those stories were good. There are further weird things about God in Genesis... another interesting one is that God isn't omniscient and doesn't know if what he heard about Sodom and Gomorrah is true until he sends messengers to earth to investigate.
If you want to read the passage again, I highly recommend you read it in the preliminary translation sample of the Transparent English Bible, downloadable (in several pdf files) from http://originalbible.com/category/translation-samples/
Yes the main person in charge of the Original Bible Project and its translation the "Transparent English Bible", Dr. Tabor, is a Christian. And certainly he has some very nutty ideas on certain topics. But his work on this translation is very honest and scholarly, and takes exactly the approach we need in a Bible translation. I expect it to be one of the best English translations of the Bible ever accomplished, once the work is completed.
YUP. Try to understand our mommy and daddy etc. Some of the ancient Jews tried ....
Fix religion, understand and use the bible as an atheist guide book ..... it's more than just stupid ..... it is our legacy ... to learn from ... to improve upon ..... yeah it's way embarrassing too.
This god person couldn't find two naked teenagers in his own garden...
Who's the 'tard?
LC >;-}>
Christianity: A disgusting middle eastern blood cult, based in human sacrifice, with sacrements of canibalism and vampirism, whose highest icon is of a near naked man hanging in torment from a device of torture.
As a Christian, this is my favorite story. We are ALL Adam and Eve(s) First we must understand that God had a preordained plan when he created the world. God knew man would sin and he knew that because of our sin we would die and he knew we needed a saviour because He gave us free will.
The serpent enticed Eve with power, to be her own God much like many of you in this forum are guility of. There is a reason the bible refers to us as his "sheep" and he is the shepherd. The sheep is one of if not the dumbest animal on the face of this planet.
God told Adam and Eve that because they sinned they will die and it came to pass because Adam died, you see when God created Adam, he created him in His image with an eternal spirit but once Adam sinned he placed an expiration date on himself.
God knew where Adam and Eve were, when he asked, "Adam where are you"? but He wasn't asking from a physical sense but a social one. Adam was a man who was given a role/ responsiblity by God.
Adam where were you when your wife was being enticed by the serpent? Adam where were you when your wife ate the apple?, Adam where were you when your wife convinced you to eat the apple?. Adam what is your role I gave you?
Absolutely beautiful!
You can't be serious, can you? If that were the case, "Where were you when eve ate from the tree"? This would have been more appropriate. In what context can this verse be read to indicate what you are suggesting is true?
This just goes to show that gawd isn't all knowing and mysogeny is rampant in the bible. Wait, sorry an atheist...... don't believe in gawd.
"Always seek out the truth, but avoid at all costs those that claim to have found it" ANONYMOUS
LOL....he gave Adam an opportunity to confess his sin and repent before God spoke again and pronounced punishment. A spiritual accounting so to speak.
The context is in the verses before and after, Adam never said, "Here I am" he soke as if God knew where he was not to mention God knew he ate from the tree but you would probably explain that away by God was hiding and spying on them.
Adam sinned and God gave Adam a chance to repent, "Adam where art thou" but instead he lied, took no blame and passed the buck to his wife who in turn she blamed the serpent.
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!
Theist tag in 5, 4, 3...
Read it [the bible] because we need more Atheists and nothing will get you there faster than reading the damn bible. Elvis never did no drugs!
*Penn Jillette
Umm... they were created with no concept of good or bad, right? Just how did god expect them to obey him? They had no notion of what it was to obey and very really the threat of death would have been incomprehensible to them and I'll remind you, a lie. Further, wasn't it the snake who contradicted god and got the two people who couldn't possibly have known better to do the bad in the first place? This story is about nothing else but perverse trickery, a hallmark of the biblical god.
Read it [the bible] because we need more Atheists and nothing will get you there faster than reading the damn bible. Elvis never did no drugs!
*Penn Jillette
That is not 100% true. It is true that they never experienced right and wrong before but God placed the laws in their hearts. Eating the fruit, as an act of disobedience against God, was what gave Adam and Eve knowledge of sin and that is why they tried to clothe themselves infront one another -tried to hide from God because the innocence was gone.
God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world. Why, then, did God put the tree in the Garden of Eden and allow Satan to tempt Adam and Eve? God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden to give Adam and Eve a choice. God allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve to force them to make the choice. Adam and Eve chose, of their own free wills, to disobey God and eat the forbidden fruit. The result – evil, sin, suffering, sickness, and death have plagued the world ever since. Adam and Eve's decision results in each and every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin.
If God had not given Adam and Eve the choice, they would have essentially been robots, simply doing what they were programmed to do. God created Adam and Eve to be “free” beings, able to make decisions, able to choose between good and evil. In order for Adam and Eve to truly be “free” – they had to have a choice. There was no perverse trickery.
We all have a choice. God doesn't want lemmings. He wants us to come to him willingly ultimately giving God the glory.
ohhhhhhh...ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!!
I want my 4 year old to have a choice. So I'm going to lock her in her room with a loaded handgun with her 3 year old sister.
Thanks for your divine lesson god! You're the best.
Science. It works, bitches.
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
Douglas Adams
Now I know that all analogies limp but your's is a 122 year old man running a marathon. Look! you are not understanding God's purpose, being, divinity, nature and not surprising because most Christians don't either.
First of all nothing is for us, absolutely nothing, it is all for God's purpose and glory. The bible is not some self help book figuring out how I can get the best life- health, money and the rest of that nonsense using God but it's the otherway around. God uses us for His best purposes.
When God created man, he wanted to have a family who would love him, worship him and give him the glory (so he created his pre ordained plan) but he knew in order for this to happen he would have to create man with free will and choose him freely because he didn't want little robots - that wouldn't serve his purposes nor his nature. But God knew that if he gave man free will he would sin and ultimately disconnect God from man forever (eternal punishment in hell) because God cannot stand sin. It is putrid to him. It violates him in more ways we could never imagine.
God cast Adam and Eve out of paradise but promised them that one day he will send the perfect sacrifice (Jesus) who will reconnect God with man. It is His preordained, perfect plan which gives God the glory.
All thru the bible God allows and wills bad things to happen to ultimately serve his good purposes. When Jesus was crucified, satan was happy since he was instrumental in his death therefore killing any chance God had with his precious man which is a bad thing for us but God would use Jesus death, he sacrificed his Son to reconnect man with God thus giving Him the glory. Personally I believe my father had to die of cancer 6 years ago so his son (an atheist) could be saved from God's wrath.
And to answer your question, if it takes your two little girls to die so that God can use their deaths to save their daddy from God's wrath. the answer is YES!
Every wretched man and woman that becomes saved gives him the glory for His kindness, mercy and love, every person sent to hell gives him the glory for His righteous and just side.
In the end God is who he is, his nature is receiving glory and this is his pre ordained plan and it is right on schedule which once again shows how great and mighty and always in control God is which gives him what? ah, yes. the Glory!
ZzZzZzZz....
Wow! Really? <---This is sarcasm again just so you know.
I grew up in church. I've heard all this drivel a million times. You bring no new information to me at all so far.
I was a christian for most of my life.
You sound like me 15 years ago.
Science. It works, bitches.
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
Douglas Adams
You weren't a Christian, you were what we call a "false convert" You never truely came to know Christ. Right now the church is full of them, millions of them. You always had something that kept you from totally surrendering to Him or you came for the wrong reasons.
Your pride got the better of you and you wanted to do it your way. No surprise to me because most atheist I come across are false converts, that is why you guys are so angry and I don't blame you because those ministers damaged your beautiful walk with Christ
Wrong. If I wasn't a christian then no one is. Actually I have always had a rather shitty opinion of myself. My older brother was an egomaniac and lorded it over me.
The "false convert" idea is just a way that a Christian such as yourself tries to make sense of people like me.
I wanted to "do it my way", eh? Odd. I live no differently now than I did when I fully believed in the bible and the abrahamic god. I work, I raise my three girls with love, I'm faithful to my wife, I don't break the law, I'm kind and friendly to people.
Let's get this straight, little christian. When you see anger in my words it is anger over that terrible fiction you were indoctrinated in from birth not you as a person. I understand how much it blinds you to reality and chains your mind into a little, primitive box.
I actually have no bad memories of growing up in church or for any of the preachers that I was raised listening to.
The only person I have ever cried for when he died was the man that taught me Sunday School growing up. I cried when they buried him for a week afterward. And I cried the last day of the year of his death because I knew I was leaving the last calendar year that he lived.
Science. It works, bitches.
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
Douglas Adams
Actually, no. I don't need to explain away people like you. It is obvious you are angry, leaving the father and going back to eating the pig's slop in the parable of the The Prodigal's Son and there are many other parables describing people such as you.
You live no differently? well then that proves my point of "false convert" because I live much differently, well try my hardest at least.
Do you lie? do you steal? Do you lust? Do you cuss? Do you covet? how about your secret sins? what if your wife knew them? Still think your a good person? because I struggle with these and if you are living the same way now than when you were a "christian" then I really would have to wonder about your Christian walk? I am not talking about low self esteem, I am talking about you being a vile wretched person that if your friends and family knew your thoughts for the past 6 months you couldn't show your face.
and Yes! there are real Christians, like Paul, He fought the good fight, he saw it to the end. That's a Christian
So cute. Makes me want to just squeeze your cheeks!
Have you ever lied? yes
Have I ever stolen? yes
Do I lust? all the time
Do I cuss? Fuck yeah. But not in polite company.
Do I covet? Sure. You don't?
Secret sins? Well since a sin is doing what god doesn't want you to do...and god doesn't exist...urhm no...I don't have those.
If my wife knew them? Ok. HAHA. I tell her every dark little secret. Why? Cause I don't have that much to hide. Do you want me to list every dark little sick thought in my head right here on a public forum? I will do it. My "sick thoughts" are rather...well tame.
Still think you're a good person? Yes
Science. It works, bitches.
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
Douglas Adams
So, Cad, how about providing evidence to support your arguments? You clearly believe that the Bible's testimony is a literal retelling of history. So? Where's the evidence to suggest that the Earth was created in under a week? Where's the evidence it's just a few thousand years old? Where's the evidence that Yahweh exists? Where's the evidence Jesus was here?
We'll start with those for now.
Henchman of reason, intellect, logics, and facts
aka, 'Plant Boy'
Ah Cad.You,Watcher and I would all get along so well if you'd lose the theism. Now, no doubt you're going to tell me I was never a true christian. And I'm also going to argue that if I wasn't, I don't know who is. When I became atheist, my christian friend said he couldn't understand, I was such a good person I made him feel evil sometimes.
Know what? I haven't changed much.I'm still that good person. I don't want to kill or steal or anything.I know you will consider the stuff I do as sinful, but what's sin without a god.
I hope in 10 years when you're atheist someone will say you were never a christian. And it will probably happen.I said I would never deny christ, I was more than willing to die for him. But someone has to be the apostate,how can you be sure it won't be you.
Loc'n'Load
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
"Don't stand beside my grave and cry,
I am not there. I did not die."
I forget how many times I've heard this delusion since I joined this site. I'm an ex-catholic with years of parochial school including a Jesuit University. Catholicism considers the Genesis story to be figurative language not real. I imagine you are some sort of Protestant based on your Fundy statements. Once I was like you until it hit me in the face what BS the claims religions make from their reading between the lines in 2000-2500 year old badly translated writings by ancient savages. You should stand in front of a mirror and read the ridiculous statements you just made. If you don't break out in laughter you are so deluded by mythology you deserve to waste your life worshiping the imaginations of the ignorant ancients.
First off, if the snake is Satan when and where did he fall from God, please cite chapter and verse.
Second, please indicate where in the Bible Satan ever killed anyone, please cite chapter and verse. God however has blood in nearly every chapter on his hands.
Third, if Satan is so evil and cannot look upon God please explain Job.
Fourth, claiming what you do as real in your interpretation of Genesis is dishonest, please detail where you got:
1-"they never experienced right and wrong before but God placed the laws in their hearts." Cite chapter and verse where God claims this or retract it.
2-"God did not want Adam and Eve to sin. God knew ahead of time what the results of sin would be. God knew that Adam and Eve would sin, and would thereby bring evil, suffering, and death into the world." Please cite chapter and verse where God claims this or retract it.
3-"Adam and Eve's decision results in each and every person being born with a sin nature, a tendency to sin." Not according to the Jews who claim man is born a pure soul and can return it to God the same way. Please cite chapter and verse or retract.
4-"We all have a choice. God doesn't want lemmings. He wants us to come to him willingly ultimately giving God the glory." Please cite where God says he does not want lemmings.
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.
Christians are terrorists. Re-read the words of poster Cadalyst.
Jesus called Peter Satan. Paul is the anti christ, and Cadalyst is a Pauline Dogmist, an Idol worshiper, who thinks his sense of awe is special.
Hate to say it but, I agree with a Theist. I think some atheists make the mistake of calling the bible stupid. Obviously the bible writers can't be that stupid and bad if they got so many people to believe it.
The story reveals the conflict that man now has since self awareness, language and understanding have evolved in our species. Before we evolved into the homo-sapien species, we were innocent animals, decisions driven by instinct instead of understanding. The fruit of the tree of good and evil(knowledge) is representative of our rational thinking development and quest for knowledge. With knowledge came power, this power could be used to help or harm(good or evil). And the questions of "who am I?, how did I get here?, where am I going?, Am I my brother's keeper? have become important.
Stop global whining.
How did I miss this? So is that what this is about? Your father died of cancer, so you think god should be worshipped for that? What's really happening here is your scared of death and you want some mindless comfort. I don't blame you.When things get tough I find myself thinking about my christian days. That feeling of sending off a prayer and thinking 'well, I've got god working on it for me now.' But are you really being helped or putting an imaginary bandage on a real wound?
Loc'n'Load
Psalm 14:1 "the fool hath said in his heart there is a God"-From a 1763 misprinted edition of the bible
"Don't stand beside my grave and cry,
I am not there. I did not die."
Loc,
Many converted Christians fall to irrational beliefs from a significant emotional event. Deaths of loved ones, rejection by a lover, waking up in an alley, a DUI and waking up in jail, or almost dying from a drug overdose are examples. They turn to religion or God as a new crutch or addiction to deal with the world as they feel they are incapable of dealing with reality on their own. Cadalyst's cause is the death of his father. Depending on the underlying cause these people have for conversion the odds of reaching them with reason may be limited or not possible. I have found those who utilize God as a crutch to overcome addictions are the hardest to reason with as they seem to drift to the Fundy views. In most cases, I leave these people alone as I feel a non-drinking alcoholic that uses God is better than a drunk driving the streets.
Cadalyst it seems may never have understood that all people die and reached for God in a moment of weakness. His statement to Watcher his 2 little girls may have to die to save him for God shows how he has rationalized death as a cause beyond man's abilities. It may be that cancer is beyond man to cure right now, but prevention of accidental deaths certainly are not. Cadalyst however doesn't see it that way as he indicates it is God that drives the time line of man to his own ends which we do not grasp. This same line of thought was used in the Crusades and the Inquisition as justification for murder and mayhem. Cad indicates this idea from his concepts in interpreting the Garden story of Adam and Eve where he reads into the story justifications that aren't really in it. This of course creates a paradox that most Fundy Christians never see. It is the argument of free will versus God's plan. It is of course not possible for lowly man to ever understand God, so we must just accept what he gives us. This is really denying responsibilities for actions by man. Those who claim an "act of God" for their house being flooded in a 'flood plain' or a house destroyed on the beach in Florida from a hurricane are justifying the stupidity they had by building there in the first place. Eventually California or Los Angles will be destroyed by an earthquake and to claim this is an act of God is false. No one in California can claim they don't know they live on a major fault that will eventually slip. Is that God or simply nature?
Where he says:
This shows how he has denied responsibility and has put everything on God. As God has a plan it is for his glory that everything happens and not for us to understand. This way, the believer can now use his belief in God as a crutch and not accept responsibility.
"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.