Help us create the next big project...

Sapient
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Help us create the next big project...

Comment here instead of youtube, and upload a video to respond to ours if you can.


Rave
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Sorry for going against the

Sorry for going against the grain here, but I think another 'challenge' isn't the way to go. The Blasphemy Challenge was good - it was an announcement that there are more people out there who aren't afraid than most people think. I think the 'draw Mohammed' idea is great, but it might look a bit 'old' if it's called another 'challenge'. I'd like for the RRS to try to achieve a specific goal now - like my idea for simple education booths/desks - rather than another 'let's make fun of these irrational beliefs again' thing. Atheist Volunteers is a great undertaking, and so was calling all atheists to donate blood. At least you could make another video like the one for the blood donation for crossing the god off of your money.

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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think positive

I have to agree with the folks who are saying no to a new "challenge" and suggesting educational/outreach ideas instead. Recycling Bibles or Korans is ultimately a waste of paper and only symbolic. RRS and atheist causes have enough attention right now that, if our minds are put together, we can actually change something in the US or Europe. Another showy gimmick would just delay real change.


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On the idea of the

On the idea of the abstinence pledge....

 

I wonder if there are enough people with personal stories who would come forward , with :

 

I took the Purity Pledge andall i got was ......

 

An STD

A Teen Pregnancy

etc..


Janus936
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How about burning the bible

How about burning the bible on youtube? have each of us explain why the bible is disgusting and burn it on camera.


Rave
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Janus936 wrote: How about

Janus936 wrote:
How about burning the bible on youtube? have each of us explain why the bible is disgusting and burn it on camera.

If we're only doing things like this then no one is going to take us seriously. Let's not be the Howard Sterns of activism, let's be the Carl Sagans. 

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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so, anything sticks out as a

so, anything sticks out as a possibility?  we gonna have an opinion poll?


Rave
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Tomcat wrote: so, anything

Tomcat wrote:
so, anything sticks out as a possibility? we gonna have an opinion poll?

It would be nice if there were more people giving ideas or commenting on the ones already given. But if we're having a poll, I'd like to nominate my own idea again!

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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What about something like

What about something like "Find an atheist"?

Then again, maybe it would be too dangerous...


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I'd like to watch some Find

I'd like to watch some Find an Atheist videos.  What about that one kid that told his mother he was an atheist and filmed it?  She was screaming at him!  I'd love to see more videos that prove how difficult it can be to express yourself.

Side note:  I think Brian, Kelly, or Rook should challenge Stephen Colbert to a Reason-off or a Bible-off.  One of my favorite bands, the Decemberists, challenged him to that guitar-off and he accepted.  That would be awesome press. 

A daughter of hope and fear, religion explains to Ignorance the nature of the unknowable. -Ambrose Bierce


Rave
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No offence guys, but I think

No offence guys, but I think a lot of people are taking the wrong angle here. What are we trying to do? Change people's minds or just chase publicity? The RRS has got plenty of publicity recently - what is doing things solely for the purpose of publicity going to achieve? We need to use what we have now to start making a difference! The bible recycling idea would be great if feasible - it would combine both. I think we should be doing more to either raise funds for worthy causes or trying to dispel misconceptions and educate the misinformed with a large scale project. It's the average Joe Christian's poor understanding of issues like stem cell research and evolution that allows church leaders to mobilize them to work against the progression of science and society - that is what we should be trying to change!

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


82abhilash
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Project Craiglist

To my fellow proud sinners,

Good evening to you all. First of all I would like to comment that Brian Sapient seems to look and act like a commander in a bunker at the time of war. He wants to open another front in the battle and is opening the floor up to suggestion from his rag tag army of volunteers - meaning us of course.

Now here is the idea. Recently I was helping a friend find a new place to move to on craigslist; and while browsing the 'rooms & shares' category, I found a posting that said - "Christian only - statement of faith required'. It is illegal. So I tagged it and eventually it was removed. This was an extreme case.

But there are other not so extreme cases that are just as bad but not as sharp. They say - Christian preferred, or Christian female preferred. In fact a case was filed against craigslist by a group of civil rights attorneys in this regard at Chicago. You can read details about the case on their website:

http://www.craigslist.org/about/fair.housing.html

It was dismissed because craigslist successfully (and in my opinion rightly) argued that they where not responsible for the contents on their website, the community was and that they had given the community a tool to remove such illegal and offensive content. They claimed that community-self moderation was the most effective to go.

Well the offensive postings continue. Often times people try to confuse the issue by including gender. Because gender based discrimination is accepted in ‘rooms share’ when common areas are shared - gender based, not sexual orientation based. Terms like 'Christian female' or 'Christian male', does little to dilute their nature of the immoral and illegal act.

By preferring a Christian, you are in effect implying that people of other faith or no faith are inadequate or inferior to people of any particular faith.

The law is clear on this but you may want to consult a lawyer before you kick off the project. As far as I see it, there are some situations where a landlord use discretionary powers to restrict anyone, but you still cannot advertise so, which is clearly what these people are doing.

For more information, look at

http://www.craigslist.org/about/FHA.html#roommates

Now what do we need to do? Very simple. We need to get on craigslist and find such postings. A simple search for the word 'Christian' will do in the housing section. There could be other related search words you can check. Then we need to flag the posting as 'prohibited.' Then we display all such links on your website (on a new thread?) so that those who come frequently can repeat the same. Flag it enough times and craiglist will remove it. There is more info on flagging at

http://www.craigslist.org/about/help/flags_and_community_moderation

There is also a link to the help desk, if you want more information.

You can start with this one.

http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/roo/362011555.html

Believe me there are plenty more where this came from.

Now Brian Sapient can make this worth my while (like he promised), by sending me either of the two, the two. A copy of the 'God Delusion.' signed by Richard Dawkins or a copy of 'God is not Great' signed by Christopher Hitchens. Whoever you can get hold of easily and as soon as you can. I mean take your time, but not so long, it might as well be never. And with a real signature, NOT a signature seal.


Sapient
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82abhilash, While I support

82abhilash,

While I support you in flagging these listings, should it make you feel better, I don't have a problem with the listings.  People are perfectly within their rights to search for a room mate that meets all of the traits they desire.  You have the right to think less of those people as a result, but I don't see the need to attempt to restrict it.  People have the right to prefer certain people over other people.

 

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I'd have to agree there. At

I'd have to agree there. At least with roomates. With renting a room/apartment/house/etc on your own it should be illegal and strictly watched. But with regards to roomates, you're looking for someone that you will be living with. That you will share property with. You throw an evangelical christian in with a fundamentalist muslim and a hardcore atheist and there's going to be blood on the walls sooner or later. People should have the freedom to choose who they are living with, just not beside.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


82abhilash
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My reasoning

I agree, indeed religion is a topic that may come up in any discussion with regards to getting a room-mate, but then again so is the question of whether your future room-mate is a porn star - perfectly legal, but socially not preferred. After all, it is a person you are going to live with and you need people who can at least respect each other before you live with them. 

 

However, declaring it before hand publicly in an ad is obvious bigotry, especially when it violates the letter of the law. After all no one tolerates a personal ad or a room-mate ad with a 'whites only' or 'no coloreds' sign. Indeed in the past age of racial tension, you could have used this argument to facilitate people who discriminated by skin color, I think it must have been. 

 

 

This is similar because, you are publicly declaring your intolerance and your pride in it. You are judging a person, largely by the accident of his birth and not by the content of his character. People of different religions who come together are usually not fundamentalists, few people are, most just admire fundamentalists or tolerate, some even hate them. The tolerance of this behavior will impede people from coming together and talking about real issues, that supersede their religious differences.

 

As private behavior, you are entitled to it, some people still are privately racist, I wouldn't want to live with them, and if they express their displeasure when they see me, I will politely remove myself from their company, you and me will do the same if we get the inkling that the people we are about to live with are too devoutly religious, people are already finding polite excuses not to stay with gays and I AM OK WITH ALL THAT. It is a private belief and people are privately choosing their friends and partners and living mates based on language sexual orientation, race, gender and a lot other things that as a society, we do not tolerate. People have and will continue to have rights over the own private opinion and some control over how they consequently arrange their private lives.

 

But you cannot openly say 'no Gays allowed' in a public forum, that is bigotry, like that this is bigotry, too. In a public forum such behavior must be condemned, because it is against the letter and spirit of the law of the land and corrosive to the concept of a society based on equality.

 

I fully embrace the notion that people can look for desirable traits among people they choose to live with. However, if the desirable trait is against the letter of the law and our common spirit of fairness, they must have the decency to obey the law and express their preferences in religiously-neutral terms in a public forum. I sense that this is the essence of the Fair Housing Act. 

 

Consequently, in this case, I only have a problem with people expressing such bigoted views in an open forum. If they want people who support their views why not join a forum that is exclusively for such people? Or use informal networks? Religion creates highly cohesive societies, is that not what they say?

 

In the real world everyone must play firstly by the rules that we all must abide by and that is the letter of the law. Craigslist is open to everyone so such ads must have no place there. And sense it is community driven, we must take the first step in upholding the law there. You can stay with anyone you choose, but please don't express your bigotry on a public forum.


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Don't worry - that is less likely

That is less likely, when the evangelical christian, the fundamentalist muslim and the hardcore atheist begin to see that their bigoted views are not acceptable in a public forum, they will stop using them. They will find forums where they can safely express their views and this process will sideline them from the mainstream, which is where they belong.

 

Now you must be asking 'The hardcore atheist too?' Yes, some atheists too do deserve to be sidelined. I think we can all agree that being a hardcore atheist doesn't automatically make you a good human being although an evangelical christian or a fundamentalist muslim, is most probably not. 

 

Good deeds do not necessarily arise out of atheist tendencies, we know that. In fact if according to Sam Harris " The entirety of Atheism is contained in this response. Atheism is not a philosophy, it is not even a view of the world. It is simply an admission of the obvious." Knowing what is not true doesn't automatically imply everything we know is true. We hate religion because lot of bad qualities and actions are fostered by religious belief, even in otherwise good people. This is more a story about their failure than our success.

 

For the record, I would like to state that like lot of you, I too have Christian friends. I would also like to state that I consider judging a person by the accident of their birth, which is what religion mostly is, as a form of discrimination. What we want here is an atmosphere, where saying, 'It is my faith' is not enough. You must substantiate your extra-ordinary claims with extra-ordinary evidence. What we need is a society that finds such an appeal to evidence at the least acceptable and at the most necessary, especially when it comes to religion.


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Here's an idea I was

Here's an idea I was talking about with one of my friends tonight.  How about a scholarship program for Atheists?  Supporters of the RRS could donate some cash and we could come up with a scholarship for $250 or $500 and give it to an Atheist student that comes up wins some essay contest.

 I don't know about how to get a RRS scholarship listed with all the others but it would serve as an outreach for those Atheists who are experiencing the freedom of higher education to find out that there are Atheist communities out there.  A scholarshp, albeit small, would be a positive impact on someone's life.  In return the RRS would get bragging rights for doing something positive and contributing to a person's eduction.  Fundies often beg for cash so they can spend it on material posessions while the Atheists are giving it away for a public good to finance the next Richard Dawkins.


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D-cubed wrote: Here's an

D-cubed wrote:

Here's an idea I was talking about with one of my friends tonight. How about a scholarship program for Atheists? Supporters of the RRS could donate some cash and we could come up with a scholarship for $250 or $500 and give it to an Atheist student that comes up wins some essay contest.

I don't know about how to get a RRS scholarship listed with all the others but it would serve as an outreach for those Atheists who are experiencing the freedom of higher education to find out that there are Atheist communities out there. A scholarshp, albeit small, would be a positive impact on someone's life. In return the RRS would get bragging rights for doing something positive and contributing to a person's eduction. Fundies often beg for cash so they can spend it on material posessions while the Atheists are giving it away for a public good to finance the next Richard Dawkins.

This might be money better spent on the Atheist Volunteers project of sponsoring cleft-palate surgery or any of the other good causes they are contributing to. Money for these sort of things in poorer countries would go alot further... 

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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LunarShadow wrote: I am

LunarShadow wrote:

I am diggin on the Tax exemption deal Brian

 

maybe call it something like "Stop the Exemption Challenge" I dunno just a thought. I mean how many RRS memebers are there and on top of that how many churches are in a 10 mile radius or any members home?

TONS.  I think there's a church for every individual in this county. Smiling  As an out-of-the-closet atheist, I couldn't exactly do this incognito.  I would be very worried about repercussions because I'm under the thumb of fundies (long story).

Could I cross-dress and introduce myself as "Fred"? 

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Rave wrote: This might be

Rave wrote:

This might be money better spent on the Atheist Volunteers project of sponsoring cleft-palate surgery or any of the other good causes they are contributing to. Money for these sort of things in poorer countries would go alot further...

Fine, I'll stop presenting ideas since your criticism can apply to anything.  I'll focus on my own website from now on and perhaps start a scholarship from there. 


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I thought it was a good

I thought it was a good idea.

Also, I really can't see how advertising who you want and don't want to live with is displaying pride in bigotry. If anything, it makes the process more convenient and efficient. The results will be the same regardless, so you might as well let it out from the get go.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Rave
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D-cubed wrote: Fine, I'll

D-cubed wrote:

Fine, I'll stop presenting ideas since your criticism can apply to anything. I'll focus on my own website from now on and perhaps start a scholarship from there.

okay, okay, sorry Sad chill...

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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I like most of the

I like most of the ideas.
Sorien's in particular, but also the others.
The ones involving setting up booths and raising money didn't appeal to me, perhaps I'm too lazy for such active activism! Eye-wink
I'd be up for drawing Muhammad, (I've actually got an idea for a 3 frame comic strip) but I'd probably want to do it anonymously. I live in a city in England that has a large amount of Pakistani and Indian immigrants, which is fine only the odds are that there will be atleast one group of fundy militants, ready to take me out!

Maybe I'm being a bit paranoid and lacking faith in my own authorities but Muslims have managed to kill in England before (there have been odd honour killings), not that they got away with it or but I'd rather not die, even if they got sent down for it! Smiling
We saw how angry they got last time a cartoon was drawn.

I still think that we should do it but try to remain as anonymous as possible? It's how the anti-Islamic websites like Ali Sina's work too. The thing that concerns me is that even if each entry was anonymous, the challenge itself would be traced to Brian and while your address isn't revealed, they might find a way?

AiiA wrote:
As for a video or videos, I think it might be fun to youtube some videos on passages of the bible that are just simply ridiculous (hmmm on second thought the entire bible is ridiculous isn't it).
Oh and it might work for the talmud and quran also.

Just be sure not to use copyrighted music on this one, otherwise the video might be taken down for hate-cri... I mean copyright violation! Eye-wink


82abhilash
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Another idea

I got an idea that is effective and non-confrontational but a bit controversial, it is a nightmare to any devout theist, but to the general public, it is like a vaccination against the religious virus. Most people are moderate in their religious beliefs and this can help win their sympathy. 

 

Start a fashion trend to wear clothes with pro-evolution messages. Like the one Richard Dawkins was wearing during his boat trip. It said 'Evolution the only game in town - the greatest show on earth.' There can also be a web site that helps one find information about evolution in a manner that is easy for people to understand.

 

Perhaps this trend can be started in college campuses where evangelists try to prey on gullible students. Such a high visibility pro-evolution message will curtail their activates and show them they are not welcome.

 

Another fashion trend you could pursue, is to quote passages from the bible-those that no one wants to think about and pretend does not exist. This will give some people a hard time, but this is probably easy to get away with because it is protected under 'religious freedom'.

 

This way you have cover more grounds - From the moderately religious to the agnostics to the atheists to anti-theists.

 

 


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I think that's a pretty

I think that's a pretty good awareness-raising idea. We'd have to find a way to mass produce simple items that can be given out (like clothes patches, buttons etc) or sold very cheaply (t-shirts, hats). It would have trouble getting wide enough attention unless there were a very large number of people who owned the clothes, as not many people will wear the same couple of t-shirts every day, so making it cheap enough for any student walking by would be very important.

Clothes patches (that you sew or iron on) would be fairly easy to produce en masse and give away, I think. People can put them on backpacks and take them to uni every day, with symbols like the evolve fish or whatever. Because those sorts of patches aren't very big, you couldn't fit a bible verse on it, but you could give the book and verse number on a plain background or something, then churchy-types would pull out their bibles and see it in their own books. Just an idea.

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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sharpies

There are also those of us who aren't affraid to draw or write on a t-shirt with a Sharpie. We buy a package of plain, white Ts and put whatever messages we wanted on them.


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A few could be made and

A few could be made and just given to high profile celebrities who support science over superstition.  Should they be seen wearing them in public then the message could be seen by millions and adopted by groupies.  Copying celebrities tends to be the way these fads are started.

If we follow this route the message should be small and simple so it can be easily read from a photograph.  Something like, "A moment of science".

The campaign would be simple but I don't see how it would be as effective.  There are millions of Jesus fish trailing the ends of cars but not exactly influential in itself. 


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D-cubed wrote: A few could

D-cubed wrote:

A few could be made and just given to high profile celebrities who support science over superstition. Should they be seen wearing them in public then the message could be seen by millions and adopted by groupies. Copying celebrities tends to be the way these fads are started.

If we follow this route the message should be small and simple so it can be easily read from a photograph. Something like, "A moment of science".

The campaign would be simple but I don't see how it would be as effective. There are millions of Jesus fish trailing the ends of cars but not exactly influential in itself.

Now that's a good idea. If you got a bunch of high profile people wearing the same shirt as eachother then people would notice... If they were wearing different things it wouldn't have any impact.

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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D-cubed wrote: A few could

D-cubed wrote:
A few could be made and just given to high profile celebrities who support science over superstition. Should they be seen wearing them in public then the message could be seen by millions and adopted by groupies. Copying celebrities tends to be the way these fads are started.

If we follow this route the message should be small and simple so it can be easily read from a photograph. Something like, "A moment of science".

The campaign would be simple but I don't see how it would be as effective. There are millions of Jesus fish trailing the ends of cars but not exactly influential in itself.


Not to mention the fact that there are millions of theists like myself who do not see science and faith as mutually exclusive.  Whether you agree with this position or not, the effect of this sort of slogan campaign would be lost on such people.  On those who propose a literal interpretation of Scripture (read: Young Earth Creationists, etc.), I think that a scientific slogan campaign would not have the desired effect, but would instead only inspire such people to ramp up evangelizing efforts to the atheist community. 

Which leads me back to my own suggestion, which is if you wish to engage theists about their so-called "irrational beliefs", then the only real effective way to do this is through rational debate with the religious community's more learned apologists, not through PR stunts and ad campaigns.

The Saint


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It will make the hard

It will make the hard hearted even harder, but it will also alienate them from their credulous sincere friends, who may begin to think science is not all the silly superstition they claim it to be.

 

They may also start reading the bible, all of it. The hard head and the hardhearted will loose their prey. It is like chocking the virus from a host, by vaccinating everyone surrounding the source of infection.

 

It is all about picking the right bible verses. They take their pick and say the bible is a good book. We show a few more and ask, what are these doing in any good book?

 


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Now here's a way we can get

Now here's a way we can get reality out to 50 million people.  Some of you may have heard about Al Gore's Current TV where they broadcast viewer made shows called Pods:

http://www.current.tv/make/vc2/pods

Essentially they are the stuff that's put on Youtube but the people vote on whether or not it's good enough to be put on the air. Unlike Youtube you'll get paid for acceptence.

It could be a project in it's own where someone makes a short documentary or it could be used to promote whatever issue the RRS decides to take on.

Now here's a scenario dragged from personal experience.  Local churches were paying to get "In god we trust" posters in public schools.  As a result I went to speak at the local school board against these promotions of religion.  Everyone who spoke that day was against the posters including Christians.  Nevertheless the fundy on the board told me I was wasting everyone's time and that I should be focused on the war effort and children were starving (therefore the best option must have been hanging the posters up).  It turned out to be a failure.

Now if I had documented on film the entire event from the initiation of the problem to the final remarks of the fundy it would have made for a great short documentary.  The little drama, if done well enough, could have been broadcast to millions and people would have learned why such a phrase became our national motto and why it is unconstitutional, and you just made $500.

Even if it isn't chosen then you made a nice documentary. 


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ideas

I think the idea of going after intelligent design in schools is a good one.  that is a serious threat to our children's education.  going after the creation museum might be good too. at least get them to stop saying it's "science".  please be careful with the muslim stuff-I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, just you seriously could get hurt- just be warned and be careful. The koran idea is a good one.  I am wondering, are you eventually going to go after any other theistic religions? Judaism? Mormonism?  No one should be immune. anyways, good luck.


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Islam is pretty mean

You want to go after Islam?  Start by making sure EVERYONE sees this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2_akih-Xks


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Hi friendlyagnostic and

Hi friendlyagnostic and blueocean.

When you get a chance, we'd love it if you'd hop over to General Conversation, Introductions and Humor and introduce yourselves. 

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How about something simple

How about something simple like a condom drive to send to the people of Africa?  We all know abstinance education isnt doing the job to help prevent the spreading of A.I.D.S.


The_Saint
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bdstrohl wrote: How about

bdstrohl wrote:
How about something simple like a condom drive to send to the people of Africa? We all know abstinance education isnt doing the job to help prevent the spreading of A.I.D.S.


Actually, abstinence programs have enjoyed some success in places where the programs were coupled with education to overcome cultural and tribal superstitions regarding sexually transmitted diseases, which is really the root of the AIDS problem in Africa.

Simply handing out condoms, or telling people to abstain alone do nothing to stem the problem; charity and AIDS activist groups have been distributing condoms in Africa for decades, yet the disease continues to spread because of systemic cultural beliefs such as that wearing condoms makes you less virile, or that having sex with a virgin can cure diseases like AIDS. Even in industrialized nations like the United States, the disease continues to spread despite the easy availability of condoms.

The Saint


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Christian missionaries

Christian missionaries teaching abstinence and the evil of contraception (Catholics) instead of real sex education and simply not providing condoms is a huge contribution to the problem.

The US in unique in having such a high rate of STDs, abortions and many other signs of poor societal health of all developed western democracies - this coincides with being uniquely religious! HIV and other STD's spread in the US so well because of the taboo on sex education and promoting abstinence instead.

I'm not condoning sex at an early age, or promiscuity - in fact I'm very much against them (grumble grumble, kids these days...) - but face it, people want to f*ck, and no amount of money spent on abstinence programs is going to overcome human nature. Besides, even when people decide to be 'abstinent' they end up bending the rules to have oral sex, which still spreads many diseases. 

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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The entire "religion is to

The entire "religion is to blame" argument is a red herring--Christian efforts at stopping the spread of AIDS through abstinence programs rather than handing out condoms is not a contributing factor in the spread of the disease, nor has it prevented the distribution and availability of condoms in countries hardest hit by the AIDS virus. According to avert.org, 40 million condoms were provided in 2005, and the number is increasing.

Yet despite these efforts, the widespread availability of condoms has not been successful in stopping the spread of AIDS, largely because of cultural and social beliefs about sex and condom use by the people who need to use them. Just like the old adage, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", you can give out condoms by the millions, but you can't make them use them.

There is also the "convenience factor", which is a problem in any country. As you say, people want to have sex, and during the heat of the moment, a condom may simply not be available (or even wanted), and the disease is spread.

There are a myriad of factors involved in the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases--simply blaming religion for the spread of disease is not rational, and does nothing to solve the problem.

The Saint


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rational response kids

Hello, I have been an atheist for 28 years, but have only recently discovered the internet. I think what you are doing is beautiful and I wish I could donate , but I can't even keep my crappy car running (shh...can you hear the violins). Anyway I would love to let my kids listen but for the "fuck" here and the "pussy" there so I was wondering if you had ever thought about doing a kid friendly version of the show. not dumbing it down or  lightening it up even a little  but just no cussing and maybe a  little more explanation on scientific terms... say for kids 8 to 12 or so. the sooner they begin to hear things that challenge thier indoctrination the better the odds that they can be saved FROM jesus. I realize thats a tall order especially coming from a guy with a crappy car but I hope it gets the hampster wheels turning. thanks for your time, no one.


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no one wrote: Hello, I have

no one wrote:
Hello, I have been an atheist for 28 years, but have only recently discovered the internet. I think what you are doing is beautiful and I wish I could donate , but I can't even keep my crappy car running (shh...can you hear the violins). Anyway I would love to let my kids listen but for the "fuck" here and the "pussy" there so I was wondering if you had ever thought about doing a kid friendly version of the show. not dumbing it down or lightening it up even a little but just no cussing and maybe a little more explanation on scientific terms... say for kids 8 to 12 or so. the sooner they begin to hear things that challenge thier indoctrination the better the odds that they can be saved FROM jesus. I realize thats a tall order especially coming from a guy with a crappy car but I hope it gets the hampster wheels turning. thanks for your time, no one.

 Hi no one, and welcome Smiling There is a website which is sponsored by the RRS, but maintained by and specifically for teens at http://www.freethinkingteens.com This might not be suitable for your kids (I haven't taken much of a good look at it), but maybe in a couple of years... In the meantime you could ask in the 'General Conversations' or 'Freethinking Anonymous' forums if anyone knows of any relevant resources in the mean time.

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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I was looking at

I was looking at evolvefish.com the other day and noticed they had some books on parenting for humanist.


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The_Saint wrote: The entire

The_Saint wrote:
The entire "religion is to blame" argument is a red herring--Christian efforts at stopping the spread of AIDS through abstinence programs rather than handing out condoms is not a contributing factor in the spread of the disease, nor has it prevented the distribution and availability of condoms in countries hardest hit by the AIDS virus. According to avert.org, 40 million condoms were provided in 2005, and the number is increasing.

Yet despite these efforts, the widespread availability of condoms has not been successful in stopping the spread of AIDS, largely because of cultural and social beliefs about sex and condom use by the people who need to use them. Just like the old adage, "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink", you can give out condoms by the millions, but you can't make them use them.

There is also the "convenience factor", which is a problem in any country. As you say, people want to have sex, and during the heat of the moment, a condom may simply not be available (or even wanted), and the disease is spread.

There are a myriad of factors involved in the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases--simply blaming religion for the spread of disease is not rational, and does nothing to solve the problem.

The Saint

 

Could you please keep your delusional version of the world out of my threads that are asking people for help to cure delusional people? 

 

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Since the subject of

Since the subject of attacking the creation museum came up, I was wondering if anyone was aware of the Unicorn Museum? - http://www.unicornmuseum.org/

They want to get a billboard for "The Unicorn Museum" posted across the street (or near) the creation museum. It's something started by the This Week in Science science radio show (and podcast). Maybe we should help them out?

If nothing else, it might be cool to get them on a show to talk about it. 

 


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Sapient wrote: Could you

Sapient wrote:
Could you please keep your delusional version of the world out of my threads that are asking people for help to cure delusional people?

 

My apologies. I thought I was engaging in a rational discussion about AIDS and the availability of condoms vis a vis a possible new project for the RRS. I was unaware that any attempt to bring reason and actual facts into the discussion is considered delusional.

Thank you for setting the record straight. 

The Saint


 


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A few Ideas I have been Kicking Around

If the idea is to create media buzz then we need to use emotional issues as much as is possible. Two I have been playing with are linking Christianity with rape and with child abuse. Now, I realize this is not a *far* stretch in light of the behavior of *way* too many Priests, but I was thinking that something more closely tied to the fundamentals of the religion would work better. After all, they can always say it is just a few bad apples that like to sodomize little boys (though it is harder for them to talk around the fact that they told state authorities in the recent case that *they* had not yet decided how they were going to handle the matter - as if Church law some how trumps *state* law).

Actually, now that I 'say' it perhaps harping on this and pouring salt in this wound is not such a bad idea. I’m sure they would *love* for this issue to fade away. Perhaps we should do our best to keep it alive and in the media? 

That being said, here are a few of my ideas. 

Associating the concept of Rape with Christianity: I have always disliked, and I am sure most here dislike as well, folks coming up to me on the street or, worse, to my door, and  proselytizing to me. This is a rude interruption of my personal space and an unwanted intrusion into my personal business. A rude interruption is defined as a violation or as violating and to violate is synonyms with to rape. Therefore, I submit to you that to proselytize to me it to rape me, or more specifically, my mind, since you are forcing unwanted knowledge upon it and *in* it.   I really think that this is the kind of association that folks like Bill O’Reilly will go absolutely ape-shit over. 

Associating the concept of child abuse/child endangerment with Christianity: For this I will just cut and paste from my MySpace blog. I had been working on this idea when I first saw the video of the debate on this site and that is when I realized I was not the only one who thought like this.  

<begin blog text> 

Princeton (and others) defines terrorism as follows: "The calculated use of violence (or threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear. (the bolding is mine)

So, based on this definition, threatening little children that with an eternity in hell if they do not follow the path of Christ, or believe in God, etc and that they, as well, must believe in the Bible or they will, again,  be damned to hell is tantamount to terrorism.


You can hardly deny the logic there.


Because of this, I think it makes sense to begin rounding up Christina parents and charging them with, if not child abuse then, at least child endangerment. After all, their choice of religion is obviously putting their children in harms way since, if the child does not believe then they are at risk of burning in hell for all eternity. So, we should strip them of their children, place the children in Atheist homes, and send the parents off to be educated. Once their parents have renounced Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit (and passed some sort of yet to be determined science and evolution course) then they would be eligible to have their children returned to them.

Stop terrorizing your children folks.

 <end blog text> 

Anyway, I think you can see where I am going with this. I’m working on t-shirts and bumper stickers, posters, etc right now.  

Also, I would like to see some sort of Judaism challenge, but I have not figured out what yet. I’m working on getting out some “I killed Jesus and I’m PROUD of it” t-shirts (many Christians blame the Jews for the death of Christ and, as a child, I even got into fights because of parents instilling this belief in their children. Eventually I just decided to embrace it and thus the idea for Christkilla was born.) though this is not really the type of challenge you are looking for.

Perhaps something along the lines of “I embrace my Jewish Heritage as a *race* of people but I denounce the Idea of it as a religion”. It’s just a rough idea and it needs to be fine tuned. I’ll keep looking for something better.

My parents always went out of their way to point out to me that being Jewish was not just about the religion but that we were a people, a race, they were correct in this so I think we have to be sensitive to this fact in any campaign that might be carried out to separate Jews from their particular brand of mono-thesim.  (I'm proud to be a Jew in the sense of the race of people but I find the religious beliefs antiquated and silly).

So, those are my thoughts for the moment.  Comments are welcome.  

Also, as a side note, I’d like to start a chapter affiliation of RSS out here in Arizona.


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my idea would be to put

my idea would be to put adverts in locla newspapers, web sites or whatever medi we could afford arguing our case. It would have to be short to the point and catchy. perhpas just top three bible contradictions and then a link to where people could find more. Donald Morgn has a great list on the the secular web. 


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Christkilla

Christkilla wrote:

 Therefore, I submit to you that to proselytize to me it to rape me, or more specifically, my mind, since you are forcing unwanted knowledge upon it and *in* it.   I really think that this is the kind of association that folks like Bill O’Reilly will go absolutely ape-shit over. 

Awesome, awesome association/analogy/juxtaposition there.  Love it!

Christkilla wrote:
So, we should strip them of their children, place the children in Atheist homes, and send the parents off to be educated. Once their parents have renounced Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit (and passed some sort of yet to be determined science and evolution course) then they would be eligible to have their children returned to them.

Hmm, not as hot on this one.  STILL love the thinking though.

 

Christkilla wrote:
I’m working on getting out some “I killed Jesus and I’m PROUD of it”

ROFL.  I'm not Jewish, but it makes me want to be one.  Talk about shock factor.  A shirt like that would be money.

 

Christkilla wrote:
“I embrace my Jewish Heritage as a *race*

I dislike the implications of race here, and somewhat disagree on that.  I prefer embracing Jewish heritage as "culture."  You aware of Humanistic Judaism? http://www.shj.org/ Rabbi Sherwin Wine, RIP.

Quote:
Also, as a side note, I’d like to start a chapter affiliation of RSS out here in Arizona.

That's what I like to hear! Drop by the Stickam chat room and tell Sapient or someone. 

The Enlightenment wounded the beast, but the killing blow has yet to land...


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Christkilla

Christkilla wrote:

 Therefore, I submit to you that to proselytize to me it to rape me, or more specifically, my mind, since you are forcing unwanted knowledge upon it and *in* it.   I really think that this is the kind of association that folks like Bill O’Reilly will go absolutely ape-shit over. 

Tomcat wrote:
Awesome, awesome association/analogy/juxtaposition there.  Love it!

Thanks! I'm glad you like the way I think Smiling I appreciate the kudos!

Christkilla wrote:
So, we should strip them of their children, place the children in Atheist homes, and send the parents off to be educated. Once their parents have renounced Christ, God, and the Holy Spirit (and passed some sort of yet to be determined science and evolution course) then they would be eligible to have their children returned to them.

Tomcat wrote:
Hmm, not as hot on this one.  STILL love the thinking though.

 Well, it was *semi* scarcastic. I do believe the underlying idea there is useable though the 'punishment' is not really realistic. However, I think that parents who pull their kids out of public schools to home school them (to indoctrinate them in the religious version of an education)  and, in doing so, typically seem to end up raising kids who do not have the basic education that they would have gotten in the public system should suffer some sort of penalty. That or they just should not be allowed to do it.

Christkilla wrote:
I’m working on getting out some “I killed Jesus and I’m PROUD of it”

Tomcat wrote:
ROFL.  I'm not Jewish, but it makes me want to be one.  Talk about shock factor.  A shirt like that would be money.

Officially, by the old school rules, you can't convert. But Sammi Davis found a way so, if you really want to, I'm sure you could. Of course, once I have them up for sale on Cafe Press, you are welcome to buy one and wear it (I won't tell anyone you are not Jewish if you don't Smiling ).

Christkilla wrote:
“I embrace my Jewish Heritage as a *race*

Tomcat wrote:
I dislike the implications of race here, and somewhat disagree on that.  I prefer embracing Jewish heritage as "culture."  You aware of Humanistic Judaism? http://www.shj.org/ Rabbi Sherwin Wine, RIP.

I've had many discussions with my father about this and he has been studying the Jewish people for decades and he has shown me some pretty stong evidence in the past that would support this.

Remember though that there are Jews that have been allowed to convert from other religions in more recent history and they don't count in that equation (in terms of considering Jews as a race).

You have to remember that, even though you can find Jews living in many countries and cultures, they came there from somewhere else. Jews have been kicked from one home to another for ages and, until the formation of Israel they had no permenant home to go to. They were scatterd accross the globe, but they are a people.

 I'll bug my father to refresh my memory on the details of his argument and I will post them for you.

A lso, I 've never heard of Humanistic Judaism, but I'll scope out your link.

 

Christkilla wrote:
Also, as a side note, I’d like to start a chapter affiliation of RSS out here in Arizona.

Tomcat wrote:
That's what I like to hear! Drop by the Stickam chat room and tell Sapient or someone. 

Actually, I have already submitted an application but, apparently I need to have 100 points in posts here first.

Your pesonal diety slayer,

~CK


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I came up with another idea

I came up with another idea after reading FTPedia:

There are still many places in the US where it's illegal to blaspheme etc. like Massachusetts, so why not try to (in the way that will get you the most attention possible) bring attention to these archaic oppressive laws, and try to get them abolished by challenging them on the grounds of being unconstitutional and suppressing freedom of expression?

I think the most public way of doing this would be trying to get ourselves arrested for it by doing lots of demonstrating and LOUD blaspheming in public places, outside of mayors' offices, city halls, police stations and similar places. Doing this all over the country in places which still have these crazy laws would get alot of attention I'm sure, and if people did get arrested and things went to court it would be a pretty easy case to win if the judge didn't throw it out immediately.

I'm sure at least one of the national atheist or secular organisations would be willing to help in organising people who live in or nearby these cities or state capitals.

Regardless of whether the laws got changed or not it would hopefully bring to the public's attention the ridiculous unconstitutional opposition to atheists' (lack of) beliefs by law in many places.

What do you think?

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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Brian? Any RRS cores? It

Brian? Any RRS cores? It might be nice to give us an update on what you're considering doing, and what you think of the recent suggestions here... Smiling

"This is the real world, stupid." - Charlie Brooker

"It is necessary to be bold. Some people can be reasoned into sense, and others must be shocked into it. Say a bold thing that will stagger them, and they will begin to think." - Thomas Paine


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zarathustra, you beat me to

zarathustra, you beat me to it! Anyway, I looked through this thread, and I didn't see anyone respond to his/her idea about 'Earth's Greatest Lawsuit'.

Not exactly sure what to do with it, but there could be some ideas that could pertain to the suit. However, as Brian said in his video, court proceedings are more the forte of organizations such as the ACLU, so then again this could be a dead end. But anyway, I think people should be aware of this site:

http://www.earthsgreatestlawsuit.org/