Seven Day Warning for Trolls.

darth_josh
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Seven Day Warning for Trolls.

This is a seven day warning for the trolls.

For an example of trollish behavior, please see posts from the following users:
hello - cult accusations
Bodhitharta - willful disregard of questions and cult accusations
rr_are_religious bigots - the name alone is a violation of the rules.

Please also see the posts from Bertram Cabot, who may or may not still be here for much longer.
Not only is trolling an offense worth banning over but as explicitly laid out in the rules, which are accessible from every page,

The Rules wrote:
As the owners of this site, we reserve the right to remove anyone from our site at any time for any reason. We cannot be asked or even expected to provide financial and commercial support for anyone whose main goal is detrimental to the site itself. We cannot be expected to pay to host posts making deceptive or dishonest claims about the site, written with the intent to undermine the credibilty or viability of the site. We are open to criticism of the site in the goal of improving it, we are not open to any attacks on the site, with the goal of obliterating it, especially from people who aren't willing to accept that they may be wrong.



We are looking at the entire community right now, and we notice that there are quite a few people here that are posting with the sole purpose of making attacks on the site with little to no interest in debating rationality. Members like "hello" who are constantly telling the mods how to do their job risk losing their account. We're not here to discuss how to mod or run a website, we're here to discuss issues like religions dominance on society. If you're unhappy with how we do it, find a new site, or send a note to the mod team. The deconstructive criticism from people making poor assumptions, that are unwilling to accept when they are wrong will be getting nipped over the next 14 days. If you're a theist and you'd like to be welcome here, start focusing on the debates. If you persist in your continuous baseless attacks on the motivations of the Rational Response Squad and the site members then expect to be removed from the site.

Lately, with site traffic at an all-time high, it has become increasingly more important for the squad and the moderators to respond to legitimate issues rather than constantly address the same baseless accusations.

[Updated by darth_josh 7/7/07]]

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Bertram Cabot
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Bigots

Throughout history, people have always found an "other" who, if they did not exist, would leave your life in a much better state.

 

To some this has been Jews...to others Blacks. Or Catholics. Or, more recently, immigrants.

 

In your case, its Christians.

 

Prejudice, by any other name...smells just as bad.


Gauche
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It's interesting that you

It's interesting that you didn't add gays to that list, a group that has been targeted by christians.

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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Bertram Cabot

Bertram Cabot wrote:

Throughout history, people have always found an "other" who, if they did not exist, would leave your life in a much better state.

 

To some this has been Jews...to others Blacks. Or Catholics. Or, more recently, immigrants.

 

In your case, its Christians.

 

Prejudice, by any other name...smells just as bad.

Irrationality always "smells bad" from all sources.

People who think there is something they refer to as god don't ask enough questions.


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Bertram Cabot

Bertram Cabot wrote:
Throughout history, people have always found an "other" who, if they did not exist, would leave your life in a much better state.

To some this has been Jews...to others Blacks. Or Catholics. Or, more recently, immigrants.

In your case, its Christians.

Prejudice, by any other name...smells just as bad

I hope this isn't an argument you actually try and support.

If you're going to draw comparisons, let's look at the validity of the examples...

How many White Supremacist do you know who grew up in a Black family?

How many atheist do you know who grew up in a Christian family?

Prejudice- Is to make a decision prior to fact analysis.

Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs


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Bertram Cabot

Bertram Cabot wrote:

Throughout history, people have always found an "other" who, if they did not exist, would leave your life in a much better state.

To some this has been Jews...to others Blacks. Or Catholics. Or, more recently, immigrants.

In your case, its Christians.

Prejudice, by any other name...smells just as bad.

Bertram Cabot.  This post has nothing to do with Darth_Josh's post about Trolling except that this is exactly what you are doing.

This is against forum rules as you know from your first warning that was posted here

This post was Trolling and this is your second warning.

If this continues, you will be banned without notice. 

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Nero
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I understand that the

I understand that the moderators of this site keep a great deal of garbage from spamming otherwise interesting threads.  Furthermore, I appreciate their tireless, voluntary activities to safeguard the site from semiliterate theophiles who have little chance of recognizing a rational thought, much less having one.

I have asked previously and am to do so again that we not excoriate and remove the theists from the site too soon.  While many here have control over their animal passions and emotions, there are many others who are yet to learn.  In fact, the vast majority of Christians are raised to pay attention to passions rather than rationality.  We would be doing the greater world a disservice if we did not attempt to pull them from the quagmire of passionate feelings.

I will grant that abuse of the individual is unacceptable; however, a person stating that they feel in some way threatened by such an edict as this does not seem to me to be a troll.  We might rebuff that person for the manner in which it was done, but to ban that person for saying that the rule seems to grind upon one group more than another seems rather autocratic.

Now, I have expressed a view that does not conform with the leaders of this site and may be labeled "troll" for my efforts.  I, however, see that we, the atheists, are in the majority here and should provide an atmosphere that we would like to have when we are of the minority.

Sic transit gloria mundi.

"Tis better to rule in Hell than to serve in Heaven." -Lucifer


friendlyagnostic
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so does someone get banned

so does someone get banned from this site if they say they think the rrs is wrong now? that doesn't sound very "rational" to me......


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MattShizzle wrote: You

MattShizzle wrote:

You forgot Jediism.  


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friendlyagnostic wrote: so

friendlyagnostic wrote:
so does someone get banned from this site if they say they think the rrs is wrong now? that doesn't sound very "rational" to me......

Welcome, friendlyagnostic!

Offering an opposing view is not wrong, however presenting that view in a way that is designed to be hurtful or incite anger is generally unacceptable.  This is no different than if you are a guest in someone's home.  You would not walk in and begin verbally abusing them.  That is not rational.  Sadly, this is what we sometimes see and is what the OP is addressing.

If you have viewed any of the other threads, you may notice that we don't always agree with one another and that is okay.  It is the presentation of an opinion that makes all the difference in how someone is treated. 


darth_josh
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And THAT'S yet another

And THAT'S yet another reason why we  see 'Moderator' under jce's name.

She got the 'gist' of it from the hop. 

All of us are WANTED to be here, not NEEDED. Any 'troll' regardless of their ideology is scrutinized by mods. 

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thanks for explaining that.

thanks for explaining that. wasn't trying to be mean or anything it was an honest question and sorry if I came off as trying to be antagonistic. looking around your forums I see what you are saying. I guess what confuses me is what the rrs sometimes says in public and how different they seem to be when you talk to them and lots of the people on here.  they can come off as hateful in public sometimes, yet on here and when you see some videos with them they really often don't seem that bad. why the discrepancy? just curious. is that just b/c there's really no one set "ideology" and it's all differing opinions? these are questions I've heard many people ask so just curious would appreciate an answer, thanks. hope I don't sound rude I don't mean to, just honestly curious.


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Have you had the

Have you had the opportunity to listen to some of the back shows?

Even the most obnoxious guests *ahem*CARM*ahem* have been given more than adequate dose of kindness in my personal opinion.

To feed your obvious skepticism, I would ask: Would a site solely out to be assholes have a forum named 'Killing them with Kindness' pandering to the more delicate sensitivities of some of our theistically-minded friends?

And one more: Would a site embracing an alleged dogma allow people to post even ONE question let alone respond to the question on as much of an individual basis as possible?

Just food for thought. Freethought that is.

I think that once you find the arguments against even something as relatively mundane as 'agnosticism' then you will see why reason is so highly valued as to warrant the banning of 'trolls'.

For an example of disagreements between sitemembers, one only need venture into the 'Politics' forum. lol.

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friendlyagnostic
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yeah, I see what you are

yeah, I see what you are saying. I'm listening to the back shows and finding a lot of what you said to be true. it's just little things like the whole "all theists belong in mental institutions" quips that get on some people's nerves.  me personally, I hesitate to say anything about "all one group" b/c I don't know every member of any one group. I guess I just don't like absolute statements any one way. 


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friendlyagnostic

friendlyagnostic wrote:
yeah, I see what you are saying. I'm listening to the back shows and finding a lot of what you said to be true. it's just little things like the whole "all theists belong in mental institutions" quips that get on some people's nerves. me personally, I hesitate to say anything about "all one group" b/c I don't know every member of any one group. I guess I just don't like absolute statements any one way.

Neither do I, but you have to remember that while we are here dealing with theists that have enough interest in religion to come here and post questions, the core team is trying to get heard by the larger theistic community that does not think about religion.  They (majority of theists) accept what they have been told and question it no further. 

Sometimes shaking things up and making noise is the only way to get noticed.   You know what they say - even bad publicity can be good publicity.


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so basically you are saying

so basically you are saying they mostly do stuff like that to get people's attention?  I can see that......


darth_josh
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From my own standpoint, I

From my own standpoint, I try to ignore people and study the way that the religious belief affects people. Particularly by putting myself into the 'moccasins' of a theist reading, hearing, or seeing the belief in 'action'.

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Christian Majority?

I dunno. I'd be very interested to know how you got that Christians are a majority. What criteria do you use to define a Christian?


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   Chris·tian

 

 Chris·tian (krĭs'chən)

n.

  • One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
  • One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

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I'd have to refine that a

I'd have to refine that a bit, and say it's someone who believes in the divinity of Christ.  I know several agnostics (who do say it's a middle position despite what some in the rss seem to think), Buddhists, deists, and others who follow some of Christ's teachings, but certainly wouldn't consider themselves christians.  I admire some of his teachings myself. Some people sort of think of him as another Buddha. the difference is we don't believe in his divinity. hope that makes sense.


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Pie Chart

I'm sorry, but that pie chart you have doesn't make sense when you compare it to this...

 http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Now look at the wedge for Christians. It's way smaller than the pervious pie would assert. Okay, it gets goofier. The criteria on what makes a Christian breaks down even further...

"For statistical purposes: Groups which self-identify as part of Christianity include (but are not limited to): African Independent Churches (AICs), the Aglipayan Church, Amish, Anglicans, Armenian Apostolic, Assemblies of God; Baptists, Calvary Chapel, Catholics, Christadelphians, Christian Science, the Community of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "Mormons", Coptic Christians, Eastern Orthodox churches, Ethiopian Orthodox, Evangelicals, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Local Church, Lutherans, Methodists, Monophysites, Nestorians, the New Apostolic Church, Pentecostals, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, the Salvation Army, Seventh-Day Adventists, Shakers, Stone-Campbell churches (Disciples of Christ; Churches of Christ; the "Christian Church and Churches of Christ"; the International Church of Christ); Uniate churches, United Church of Christ/Congregationalists, the Unity Church, Universal Church of the Kingdom of God, Vineyard churches and others. These groups exhibit varying degrees of similarity, cooporation, communion, etc. with other groups. None are known to consider all other Chrisian sub-groups to be equally valid. David Barrett, an Evangelical Christian who is the compiler of religion statistics for the Encyclopedia Britannica and the World Christian Encyclopedia, includes all of the groups listed above in the worldwide statistics for Christianity."

But maybe the original pie is true if you intend on disregarding all the stuff that wasn't mentioned in the pie.


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It  make sense when you

It  make sense when you realise that Matt's chart refers to the US and the one you lifted from adherents.com refers to worldwide faith.

 Also, religioustolerance.org - which is really rather better than adherents.org - gives this nice summary of what a Christian is and the major Christian sects.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/christ7.htm

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet would it not? 

Freedom of religious belief is an inalienable right. Stuffing that belief down other people's throats is not.


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Gauche wrote:

Gauche wrote:
It's interesting that you didn't add gays to that list, a group that has been targeted by christians.

Unlike homosexuality, Christianity is a lifestyle choice.  

Sort of off-topic: Gauche, your post made me smile. I enjoy your insights and posts. Your avatars--a parade of Star Trek actors--always make me smile. Smiling

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Now that the rest of that

Now that the rest of that stuff is out of the way then I hope this thread can go back to the original topic when needed or questioned again.

Let's not troll the troll thread. 

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 Darth-Josh, was your post

Darth-Josh, was your post directed to me, and if so how am I trolling? Disagreeing was not listed in your original criteria for trolling. I'm not trying to be facetious, this is a sincere inquiry.


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Patrician - Thanks for the

Patrician - Thanks for the link. As far as the chart is concerned, since this website is going international the pie chart requires an update. Unfortunately, to do so would actually turn the intent of the original citing on its ear.


friendlyagnostic
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DBoone wrote: I'm sorry,

DBoone wrote:

I'm sorry, but that pie chart you have doesn't make sense when you compare it to this...

 http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html

Now look at the wedge for Christians. It's way smaller than the pervious pie would assert. Okay, it gets goofier. The criteria on what makes a Christian breaks down even further...

"For statistical purposes: Groups which self-identify as part of Christianity include (but are not limited to): African Independent Churches (AICs), the Aglipayan Church, Amish, Anglicans, Armenian Apostolic, Assemblies of God; Baptists, Calvary Chapel, Catholics, Christadelphians, Christian Science, the Community of Christ, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "Mormons", Coptic Christians, Eastern Orthodox churches, Ethiopian Orthodox, Evangelicals, Iglesia ni Cristo, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Local Church, Lutherans, Methodists, Monophysites, Nestorians, the New Apostolic Church, Pentecostals, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, the Salvation Army, Seventh-Day Adventists, Shakers, Stone-Campbell churches (Disciples of Christ; Churches of Christ; the "Christian Church and Churches of Christ"; the International Church of Christ); Uniate churches, United Church of Christ/Congregationalists, the Unity Church, Universal Church of the Kingdom of God, Vineyard churches and others. These groups exhibit varying degrees of similarity, cooporation, communion, etc. with other groups. None are known to consider all other Chrisian sub-groups to be equally valid. David Barrett, an Evangelical Christian who is the compiler of religion statistics for the Encyclopedia Britannica and the World Christian Encyclopedia, includes all of the groups listed above in the worldwide statistics for Christianity."

But maybe the original pie is true if you intend on disregarding all the stuff that wasn't mentioned in the pie.

interesting that it shows us that "non-religious" doesn't necessarily mean atheist


yngve
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Detrolling..

Just send me a hint of any trolls, we Norwegians are well used to handle trolls of any size or state of diminishing IQ.

You're doing a lot of good work, keep up the debunking.

I just love your interventions, and ofcource, the fact that no theist have ever (nor will in my opinion) shown scientific evidence for the existence of any god.

If any christian is sure that rapture is imminient, I'll be happy to receive their worldly goods, thus ensuring that said theist don't have trouble with the camel, rich man and eye of a needle problem.


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DBoone wrote: Darth-Josh,

DBoone wrote:

Darth-Josh, was your post directed to me, and if so how am I trolling? Disagreeing was not listed in your original criteria for trolling. I'm not trying to be facetious, this is a sincere inquiry.

No, DBoone. My post was directed at anyone not addressing the original post in this thread. 

The pie chart is in another thread.

Straying too far from the original post can be a form of trolling. Often, the mod team allows tangential subjects to continue in a thread in the hope that it will be resolved and the original issue will be addressed. 

My post was merely trying to recover the thread topic. There are many other threads already dealing with your objections concerning the RRS I'm sure.

 

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Maybe we need this

Maybe we need this here:

 


darth_josh
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Nah. I don't think any of

Nah. I don't think any of us are averse to 'drama'.

It's the 'on-going' drama that makes people get sick of them.

Open, reasoned discussion honestly needs some expletives, but when they become ad homs it crosses the lines.

I think the difference can even be found betwwen some of the

"Not this shit again" posts. Huge difference in my opinion.

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Actually...

Christianity has done a good job of targeting Jews (the inquisition and their behavior during WWII) and blacks (KKK and other Christian Right Wing white power groups as well as *most* of the rural Christians I have ever come across - the last just being my own personal experience wich is not necessarily demonstrative of the entirety of rural Christians)  as well...


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Iruka Naminori

Iruka Naminori wrote:

Gauche wrote:
It's interesting that you didn't add gays to that list, a group that has been targeted by christians.

Unlike homosexuality, Christianity is a lifestyle choice.

Sort of off-topic: Gauche, your post made me smile. I enjoy your insights and posts. Your avatars--a parade of Star Trek actors--always make me smile. Smiling

 I'm sorry Iruka I totally missed that or I would have said thank you. Are you the one that sent me that cool picture of spock on the turntables?

There are twists of time and space, of vision and reality, which only a dreamer can divine
H.P. Lovecraft


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did anyone else get this??

speaking of trolls......did anyone else get this message? I didn't know anonymous people could send messages?

From: Anonymous
To: friendlyagnostic
Subject: what!!!god is real.
Date: Sat, 2007-08-11 01:15

hey whats up with this program you dont need to be spreding this garbage around i think that if a person dosent know jesus then you dont need to be telling them a lie incase you dont know it is either heaven or hell and i dont want you to be telling them to technically to go to hell thats beet up thereis one lord and only one and it is jesus. satan is trying to get you to help him to get more people in hell!!! i pray that you will see jesus in some ones life and it will change you and you will stop this junk this is realy making me mad im praying for you

God bless!


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Lurkers can send PMs to

Lurkers can send PMs to members by clicking on "write to the author"

I think several members have gotten this spam.

 

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MattShizzle wrote: OK,

MattShizzle wrote:

OK, you WIN! 

That is - hands down - the best pie chart I have ever seen!  Ever.

It will be days before I get over it.  I think it moved me. 

Every step I took in faith betrayed me

-Sarah McLachlan


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friendlyagnostic

friendlyagnostic wrote:
speaking of trolls......did anyone else get this message? I didn't know anonymous people could send messages? From: Anonymous To: friendlyagnostic Subject: what!!!god is real. Date: Sat, 2007-08-11 01:15 hey whats up with this program you dont need to be spreding this garbage around i think that if a person dosent know jesus then you dont need to be telling them a lie incase you dont know it is either heaven or hell and i dont want you to be telling them to technically to go to hell thats beet up thereis one lord and only one and it is jesus. satan is trying to get you to help him to get more people in hell!!! i pray that you will see jesus in some ones life and it will change you and you will stop this junk this is realy making me mad im praying for you God bless!

I cannot believe how long that first sentance is! WOW!

And you should reply back... Tell them that the shift key is for more than shifting gears for their Nascar computer game.

I love the subject line...

He sure is.... Wink

Every step I took in faith betrayed me

-Sarah McLachlan


friendlyagnostic
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Quote:

Quote:
I cannot believe how long that first sentance is! WOW!

And you should reply back... Tell them that the shift key is for more than shifting gears for their Nascar computer game.

I love the subject line...

He sure is.... Wink

»

LOL, I wanted to reply back.....first off to tell him to go back to elementary school and learn how to speak English and spell....but there doesn't seem to be a way to reply since it's an anonymous message-is there? if so please let me know, I'd love to reply to this-suggestions are welcome

 

[MOD EDIT - fixed quotes] 


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MattShizzle wrote: Maybe

MattShizzle wrote:

Maybe we need this here:

Oh great, now you're prejudiced against dramatists.  Thank you very much!  And here I'd fooled myself into thinking you were a tolerant bunch.  I'll have you know I always wash my hands when I'm done writing and sometimes even when I'm finished directing.


john allan tate iii
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pitiful

that's not free thinking.

atheists are really agnostics,

for they don't really know if

there's a god or not,

or else they're satanic conartists

taking advantage of the gullible.


darth_josh
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john allan tate iii

john allan tate iii wrote:

that's not free thinking.

atheists are really agnostics,

for they don't really know if

there's a god or not,

or else they're satanic conartists

taking advantage of the gullible.

Thank you for yet another fine example to add to our wonderful collection.

Bonus points for anyone that can spot the four pieces of this little gem that warrant the label of 'trollish post'. 

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Quote:that's not free

Quote:
that's not free thinking.

Coming from a Christian Apologist or a devout Christian (of whatever sect) that's a bit rich.

Quote:
atheists are really agnostics, for they don't really know if there's a god or not,

Well done for spotting the obvious.  Here's something else that's obvious: 2+2=4.

But Agnosticism and Atheism are not mutually exclusive. Just FYI.

Quote:
or else they're satanic conartists taking advantage of the gullible.

Hey everyone... I just discovered I believe in the Bible... I'm a Satanic conartist... Or is that Satanic Con Artist?  Whatever, anyway I believe in the Bible because I'm Satanic, right?

Come on... Satanic? We're Aaaaaaaa-theists.  We don't believe in ANY theism.  What does an invention of Christianity (the Devil) have to do with it?

Atheist, Logically-minded, Curious about the world around me.


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do I get bonus points for this? :P

darth_josh wrote:
john allan tate iii wrote:

that's not free thinking.

1. changing a known definition of something to support one's position

atheists are really agnostics,

2. pointing out something obvious that doesn't have any bearing on the subject being discussed

for they don't really know if

there's a god or not,

or else they're satanic conartists

taking advantage of the gullible.

3. defining something from a position of stupidity and using the wrong definition

4. needlessly attacking people to make oneself feel better.

Thank you for yet another fine example to add to our wonderful collection.

Bonus points for anyone that can spot the four pieces of this little gem that warrant the label of 'trollish post'.

 

where's my bonus points?

 

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