How many did God kill vs Satan?

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How many did God kill vs Satan?

How many people did God kill in the Bible?

It's impossible to say for sure, but plenty. How many did God drown in the flood or burn to death in Sodom and Gomorrah? How many first-born Egyptians did he kill? There's just no way to count them all. This list doesn't include those figures.

  SAB, Brick Testament Number Killed Cumulative Total
Lot's wife for looking back Gen.19:26, BT 1 1
Er who was "wicked in the sight of the Lord" Gen.38:7, BT 1 2
Onan for spilling his seed Gen.38:10, BT 1 3
For dancing naked around Aaron's golden calf Ex.32:27-28, 35, BT 3000 3003
Aaron's sons for offering strange fire before the Lord Lev.10:1-3, Num.3:4, 26:61, BT 2 3005
A blasphemer Lev.24:10-23, BT 1 3006
A man who picked up sticks on the SabbathNum.15:32-36, BT 1 3007
Korah, Dathan, and Abiram (and their families) Num.16:27, BT 12+ 3019+
Burned to death for offering incense Num.16:35, 26:10, BT 250 3269+
For complaining Num.16:49, BT 14,700 17,969+
For "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab" Num.25:9, BT 24,000 41,969+
Midianite massacre (32,000 virgins were kept alive) Num.31:1-35, BT 90,000+ 131,969+
God tells Joshua to stoned to death Achan (and his family) for taking the accursed thing. Joshua 7:10-12, 24-26, BT 5+ 131,974+
God tells Joshua to attack Ai and do what he did to Jericho (kill everyone). Joshua 8:1-25, BT 12,000 143,974+
God delivered Canaanites and Perizzites Judges 1:4, BT 10,000 153,974+
Ehud delivers a message from God: a knife into the king's belly Jg.3:15-22, BT 1 153,975+
God delivered Moabites Jg.3:28-29, BT 10,000 163,975+
God forces Midianite soldiers to kill each other. Jg.7:2-22, 8:10, BT 120,000 283,975+
The Spirit of the Lord comes on Samson Jg.14:19, BT 30 284,005+
The Spirit of the Lord comes mightily on Samson Jg.15:14-15, BT 1000 285,005+
Samson's God-assisted act of terrorism Jg.16:27-30, BT 3000 288,005+
"The Lord smote Benjamin" Jg.20:35-37, BT 25,100 313,105+
More Benjamites Jg.20:44-46 25,000 338,105+
For looking into the ark of the Lord 1 Sam.6:19 50,070 388,175+
God delivered Philistines 1 Sam.14:12 20 388,195+
Samuel (at God's command) hacks Agag to death 1 Sam.15:32-33 1 388,196+
"The Lord smote Nabal." 1 Sam.25:38 1 388,197+
Uzzah for trying to keep the ark from falling 2 Sam.6:6-7, 1 Chr.13:9-10 1 388,198+
David and Bathsheba's baby boy 2 Sam.12:14-18 1 388,199+
Seven sons of Saul hung up before the Lord 2 Sam.21:6-9 7 388,206+
From plague as punishment for David's census (men only; probably 200,000 if including women and children) 2 Sam.24:13, 1 Chr.21:7 70,000+ 458,206+
A prophet for believing another prophet's lie 1 Kg.13:1-24 1 458,207+
God delivers the Syrians into the Israelites' hands 1 Kg.20:28-29 100,000 558,207+
God makes a wall fall on Syrian soldiers 1 Kg.20:30 27,000 585,207+
God sent a lion to eat a man for not killing a prophet 1 Kg.20:35-36 1 585,208+
Ahaziah is killed for talking to the wrong god. 2 Kg.1:2-4, 17, 2 Chr.22:7-9 1 585,209+
Burned to death by God 2 Kg.1:9-12 102 585,311+
God sends two bears to kill children for making fun of Elisha's bald head 2 Kg.2:23-24 42 585,343+
Trampled to death for disbelieving Elijah 2 Kg.7:17-20 1 585,344+
Jezebel2 Kg.9:33-37 1 585,355+
God sent lions to kill "some" foreigners 2 Kg.17:25-26 3+ 585,358+
Sleeping Assyrian soldiers2 Kg.19:35, 2 Chr.32:21, Is.37:36 185,000 770,358+
Saul 1 Chr.10:14 1 770,359+
God delivers Israel into the hands of Judah 2 Chr.13:15-17 500,000 1,270,359+
Jeroboam 2 Chr.13:20 1 1,270,360+
"The Lord smote the Ethiopians." 2 Chr.14:9-14 1,000,000 2,270,360+
God kills Jehoram by making his bowels fall out 2 Chr.21:14-19 1 2,270,361+
Ezekiel's wife Ezek.24:15-18 1 2,270,362+
Ananias and Sapphira Acts 5:1-10 2 2,270,364+
Herod Acts 12:23, BT 1 2,270,365+


But how does this compare with Satan? How many did he kill in the Bible?

Well SAB can only find ten, and even these he shares with God, since God allowed him to do it as a part of a bet. Steve's talking about the seven sons and three daughters of Job. There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job ... And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. ... And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD ... put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. ... And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house...And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. -- Job 1:1-19 So it seems that both Satan and God share the blame (or the credit) for these killings. If so, then the tally would be:

Lots!

Source/Credit: Steve Wells Skeptics Annotated Bible Check him out:

www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

 

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And heck, that's JUST in

And heck, that's JUST in scripture. If god was real, TECHNICALLY he's killed every person that EVER lived, and I can't even think of the mindbogglingly huge numbers on that!


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GlamourKat makes a good

GlamourKat makes a good point.

If god created man, and if man is meant to die and go to heaven, then technically god kills everyone!

hahahah.....

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the only quirk I have with

the only quirk I have with this post is that it can be interpreted as satan existing and being a good guy wich would make brian a satan worshipper.. Brian, are you slaughtering goats and virgins whilst drinking their blood?

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LeftofLarry wrote:Brian, are

LeftofLarry wrote:
Brian, are you slaughtering goats and virgins whilst drinking their blood?

No but I'm subliminally making a point to people who will visit this site as a result of the Blasphemy Challenge, who might be wondering why an atheist would ever commit himself to hell if there actually was one. Eye-wink

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Didn't you forget every

Didn't you forget every single person on Earth at the time of the great flood, sans Noah and his family?

Shit. See you mentioned this. Still, had to be in the millions at least....

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Look also at the number of

Look also at the number of people God has given life to as opposed to Satan. To be honest, I'd rather be created and *then* die, instead of never existing at all.

Besides, Christians believe that God has conquered death and has even better things in store in the next life, so if you believe he exists (I'm assuming you're saying he does as you accuse him of 'smiting' people), then there is nothing to fear about this life coming to an end (providing you haven't placed all of your values in it).


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sharky wrote:Look also at

sharky wrote:
Look also at the number of people God has given life to as opposed to Satan. To be honest, I'd rather be created and *then* die, instead of never existing at all.

So God just creates problems only to solve them? He gives man life and then takes it away when he wants to?

Quote:
Besides, Christians believe that God has conquered death and has even better things in store in the next life, so if you believe he exists (I'm assuming you're saying he does as you accuse him of 'smiting' people), then there is nothing to fear about this life coming to an end (providing you haven't placed all of your values in it).

So if I say that the tooth fairy imprisoned other fairies, I am affirming that the tooth fairy exists? (Circular reasoning)


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sharky wrote:Look also at

sharky wrote:
Look also at the number of people God has given life to as opposed to Satan. To be honest, I'd rather be created and *then* die, instead of never existing at all.

That sounds a little biased, since you already exist. Find me one non-existent person who minds not existing.

Quote:
Besides, Christians believe that God has conquered death
and has even better things in store in the next life,

Okay. Do you believe it should be immoral to kill a Christian? You'd be doing them a favor, after all. (Start countdown until some dumbass thinks I'm endorsing killing Christians here...)

Quote:
so if you believe he exists (I'm assuming you're saying he does as you accuse him of 'smiting' people)

I believe you're not familiar with the debate tactic of assuming the other side's position to be true for the purposes of discussion, even if you don't believe that it is, in order to point out a flaw or contradiction inherent to that position. Sapient doesn't believe God killed those people, and it's probably safe to say he doesn't believe most of those victims ever existed in the first place.

Quote:
then there is nothing to fear about this life coming to an end (providing you haven't placed all of your values in it).

Do you fear your life coming to an end, then?

Götter sind für Arten, die sich selbst verraten -- in den Glauben flüchten um sich hinzurichten. Menschen brauchen Götter um sich zu verletzen, um sich zu vernichten -- das sind wir.


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Why do atheists get all gooshy???

Why do atheists get all gooshy and emotional about people dieing or being killed? First off you begin with the assumption that it's bad to die. And then you conclude that if God causes people to die then God must be bad. The problem with this is that anything having to do with good or bad can be nothing but oppinion.

Now for me, my concept of good and bad as a Christian is based on rights. God took away my right to kill therefore it's bad for me to kill. God didn't take away His own right to kill, LoL. Therefore there's nothing wrong with God killing people.

My view of the afterlife is based on the Book of Revelations in the Bible:

1. we all die, some are killed - there's nothing wrong with this and nothing to worry about. Some expect hell but there will be no hell at this point.

2. We will all come back to life for judgement.

3. Those who are Christians will continue to live on with God.

4. Those who aren't Christians will be throwin into the pit of fire where they die. Revelations calls this the second death. They remain dead, nothing wrong with that.

Realy though I would like an atheists who realy believes it's bad to die to give a logical(not emotional) reason for believing this.

 

If I tell people the Gospel, it's not because I care about whether or not they go to heaven or hell. I do it because I honestly believe that this is God's will and purpose for my life... weeeeeeeee!!!


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Is it just me or...does it

Is it just me or...does it seem that God took a prozac before jumping into the NT. None of these deaths occur in that portion. Why the sudden case of bi-polar disorder?

Following those events...

O.T.: God gets bored and makes humanity, promptly loses it over a piece of produce and begins reign of fear and terror by inducing psychological harm to the populace. He begins by simultaneously mixing miracles and false hopes with destruction and murder by such horrible methods as making a man's "Bowels fall out" and commanding a two bear team to consume a town's fourty-two children for making fun of a bald man. The end result being an almost Stockholm Syndrome-like mass effect amongst the populace. At the time, according to the bible itself his presense could be physical or audible in nature, to one or more witnesses.

N.T.: God, quickly tiring of his new toy, sticks with the tried and true false hope shtick, makes a few promises of everlasting awesomeness and blahblah, and sends his PR guy/son to sort us all out and build the bridges (and towns, cities, armies, families, and even souls) he burned in the O.T. Unlike the O.T. however, God has not been seen or heard from since.

Even if any of it made enough sense for me to deem any of this possible, I still don't see why people who believe what this book says don't see God sauntering off to some other corner of existance as a good thing.

Come on. Less bowels falling out all over. I think everyone here can admit that's a positive no matter which side of the fence you're on.

Oh! Almost forgot. My reason(s) for why it's bad to die....The experience is less than desirable.

First off, there are no guarantees, and if you count the bible as defining proof of the afterlife, we have some talking to do about what real empirical evidence is. This lack of guarantees leads to a feeling of insecurity, terror and fear of the unknown. A rather primitive response.

Second, in case you haven't noticed, there's a good chance that shit's going to hurt like hell. The odds of a painless, sudden death against the odds of dying in any of the other billion ways is slim. Don't think your going out comfy.

Third, hypothetically, if you are correct about the existance of god, and we'll even go two steps further, that it's the Christian god and the only one to exist, then there is also a good chance one could end up in Hell. That place doesn't exactly invoke images of joy and happiness.

The Hell factor revolves around time of death, how you died, what you were doing when you died, where you were when you died, various levels of sin, your (non)belief in God, God's views on your people, God's opinion of your life (actions and inactions), God's current mood, whether or not Hell exists, and whether or not God exists.

Given the current situation where we are unable to entirely prove the (non)existance of God one way or another to any degree of universal acceptance, this leads once again to the possible experience of fear, terror and insecurity in a portion of the dying populace.

Those are my reasons for why experiencing the end-stages of dying is shitty. I will concede however that acutally being dead probably isn't that bad. Actually, it's probably a lot like standing around the watercooler in an office building. Kinda boring.

If you, or someone that you know is suffering from stockholm syndrome, get the facts at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

 Have a happy Secularmas!

/rant


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Two Points... One: When I

Two Points...

One: When I ask Christians why there is evil in this world, most reply "Because God gave us Free Will", but they also believe God has set plan and is all-knowing, if he is all knowing then he knows what all our choices are (and they are set for us) then how do we really have free will?

Two: a quote... "If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul."-Isaac Asimov

Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear. - Thomas Jefferson


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You do have to keep in mind

You do have to keep in mind what the Bible says is the main reason for death: humans brought death into the world (Rom 5:12). Humanity killed us all. God/Jesus offers you new life, for FREE, he died  once for all and is the only one who can save us (Rom 5:17-18). Even if God killed so or so many, he's the one who gave life in the first place, he has the full rights to take it. But he doesn't, he wants us all to live and made it possible by dying himself.


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Ok ,so here are my

Ok ,so here are my questions.  From reading what you have written and what others have posted about your facts here, are we suppose to live forever?  It is human nature to die, everyone does, so why blame that on God as if he killed them?  If everyone lived forever, there would be no room for all of us, or is that Gods fault for not making the earth big enough?  I know of everything you have written on who God has killed, but isn't that his call?  If you start something in your life, say a relationship, isn't it your call to end the relationship?  (not in killing them, but in the sense you have control)  What about abortion?  On paper, women have killed about 45 million inocient people, ON PAPER! (not including people who did it at home)  Is that Gods fault?  Satan is the ruler of this world, so people didn't documment in the bible when someone was murdered or killed.  Thats satan right there!  These are just questions I have, no disrespect.  I just want to see what you believe and your answers to these questions. 


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There's nothing wrong with

There's nothing wrong with abortion. God in the Babble killed actual people, not just fetuses - and look how many miscarriages there are! If God exists, he's the greatest abortionist ever!

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in genesis, god created

in genesis, god created adam and eve and told them not to eat the fruit from the tree of life if they do they will die, it was the only law that was layed down, satan was around when god told adam and eve this, so what happens?

satan disguised as a serpant tells them that they will not die,(which means hes calling god a lier) and convinces them to eat it. this means that the devil is the one who is responsible for the fall of man, not god.satan stands against god and will ruin anything god stands for and even twist things to make god look evil in the eyes of man.

the isrealite eventually become gods people and they know what god wants of them and he lays down some laws for them to abide by to seperate them from the other nations, when they done what he wanted he protected them from the other nations by helping them or whatever, when they didnt do what he asked, he warned them that they are straying and if they didnt change he would withdraw his protection.

these are violent times, nations trying to get as much territory as possble so wars were inevitable,to cut a long story short  he sets events in motion so that jesus is born and he dies as a ransom sacrafice for our sins.adam was created perfect, jesus was perfect, it was life for life to balance the scales so to speak.

when all this happens, all the heavanly angels are looking on, god could have wiped the devil out after eden, but then the other angels may have questioned if satan was right and they would never know , so gods sovergienty would have been called into question by the angels.

so from eden onwards up to the present day satan is responsible for what is happening to people and the earth, all this death and killing is satans fault. to blame god is one of the devils ploys to turn people against god.

the greek word for satan is diabolos-"slanderer"

this is why god is not popular and is unjustly accused of killing people, satan is the one who cuased and causes death and often uses religion to do his bidding now and in the past


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You are responsible for everything that happens to you

Tadlington wrote:
the greek word for satan is diabolos-"slanderer"

 The Greek word for the devil is diabolos (dia-bolos: throwing apart in two parts; splitting in two - note two*). Satan is a Hebrew word with etymology relating to the concept of opposition.

According to the rebellious interpretations, which existed throughout the history of religion, the Devil / Satan refers to human reason and the doubt* it creates. The endless dialogue that we maintain inside our heads; fear; calculations; the illusion of choice - this is Satan / Devil.

If you can't control your mind, you need somebody to blame. You chose what you were taught was Satan, but there are no external creatures - you are your own "heaven" or "hell".

Yes, I can read both ancient Greek and Hebrew.

--------------------
*note that doubt implies at least two viewpoints


original G
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The real problem here is

The real problem here is that all you loser goths have nothing better to do than to find gaps and errors in all the other religions that you don't believe in. If you don't believe in something, that's ok. i don't believe in the spaghettin monster... but i don't go around spending my whole life trying to disprove it just because i don't believe in it. yes... the spaghetti monster... just as absurd as you trying to disprove christianism.... (which i don't believe in by the way)....

Get a life man.. believe what you want to believe and leave everybody else alone... losers...

if you want to put up how many people god killed, then you are assuming it's real... and if it's real, then another part goes along with it.... that life BELONGS to god and he has the right to do with it what he pleases.... and ANOTHER thing goes along with it... that physical life is NOT the end of this world... hence, physical death is not bad. What's really bad is spiritual death.

But no, you inept, angst-filled, want-to-hate-the-whole-world losers don't even care about that. You don't even care if your statements make sense to anybody else. All you care about is that it makes sense to your furtherly stupid goth friends (yes, furtherly stupid)

If you're going to make a point, make it right... shiiit...


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original G wrote: Get a

original G wrote:

Get a life man.. believe what you want to believe and leave everybody else alone... losers...

Then why are you posting? You tell RRS what do to, thus violating your own "leave beliefs alone" policy. Hypocrite.


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And your idiotic post makes

And your idiotic post makes a lot of assupmptions (very few if any RRS members are goths for one thing.)

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KSMB wrote: You tell RRS

KSMB wrote:
You tell RRS what do to, thus violating your own "leave beliefs alone" policy. Hypocrite.

 

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MattShizzle wrote:And your

MattShizzle wrote:
And your idiotic post makes a lot of assupmptions (very few if any RRS members are goths for one thing.)

 

See header picture for picture of everyone in a bright environment with white shirts and smiles to blow that notion out of the water.  Why do people who seem to be irreligious that have a problem with us, always appear to be shitty thinkers who make bad assumptions, therefore acting as foolish as theists themselves?

 

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Sapient wrote: KSMB

Sapient wrote:

KSMB wrote:
You tell RRS what do to, thus violating your own "leave beliefs alone" policy. Hypocrite.

LMFAO HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

"Admittedly, once one decides in one’s own mind to reject the fallacy of God, the world indeed becomes a scary and lonely place, but one of truth not delusion."


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My guess would be half (AT

My guess would be half (AT LEAST!) the people who claim to be freethinkers that have a problem with the RRS are lying about it. Look how many who made that claim were caught at it.

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OreosTheTrombone

OreosTheTrombone wrote:

One: When I ask Christians why there is evil in this world, most reply "Because God gave us Free Will", but they also believe God has set plan and is all-knowing, if he is all knowing then he knows what all our choices are (and they are set for us) then how do we really have free will?

I do believe that there is evil exists because of free will, but I don't think that God has a "plan" that we are forced to follow. God can still allow free will and be all-knowing. We still have a choice, even if God already knows what choice we will make.


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God knew us before we were

God knew us before we were ever formed in our mothers womb, so we are never fetesus but people.  Have you ever talked with women years later after having an abortion?  Majority of them considered it murder and go through depression and theoropy.  So there are miscarges, murders, rapist, stealers, so on.  This is earth not heaven.  I know God can do anything and everything and he knows are next move, but why are you blaming him for everything?  Your not even suppose to believe in him.  For we are suppose to love everyone no matter their actions from their free will.  And some people say things and do the opposite, their not hyprocriptes, just confused and sinners.  What it all comes down to is me saying something and you contering it.  God loves every single person on this site! 

 

I look forward to talking with ya'll and getting to know you. 


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sigh...

It truly saddens my heart to see all of these brilliant but clouded minds go to waste.

perhaps you all would be interested in looking into the brazillian pentecostal movement known as the "restauration assembly of god". as you have researched by bible a lot (i presume), you would know that the bible speaks of "true worshippers", if there is anyone that are the true worshippers the bible speaks of, it is these guys.

now, allow me to point out a few things. in order for you to understand God's works, you must first believe and understand that God has no reason to justify anything to anyone, yet he loves us, and ocne you understand how he works, he justifies andshowsyou everything in a new light, it is what thebible calls "true happiness". he IS THE omnipotent being, no one is more powerful then he is.

now onto the little list you have there of casualties. first off, God created all things, he "borrowed" life to all. itis his, and he has the right to takeit away at any one time. the bible speaks of men who were close to God's heart. what they expirienced cannot be hoped to be understood by any physical means. matters of the Father can only be understood through the knowledge given from God to the one's he choses to give to.

try and look at things in the view that God would see it. everything is yours, you have created all, you can do anything that you so desire. why wouldn't you? we as humans cannot comprehend why god would choose to even allow us to live when he is so powerful and could simply obliterate all things? it is because HE is love, he is good, he is kindness, he is the friend you need in lonely moments.

the bible explicitely pretells the future to those who gain understanding from the Father. the bible speaks of thinkgs which occur today, very explicitely, closely linking it to the end.

allow me to ask you a few questions. if there is no God, then surely there would be no devil. correct? if so, where would have evil have come from, if not from satan?

if there is no god, there is no creator right? then explain to m how the universe came to be? EVERYTHING has a beggining, even if perhaps thereisno end, there is always a beggining. and if you wish to imply thebigbang theory, who created that infinitely small point in which the universe was contracted in? who caused the "tick" that sent everything flying to create the universe? and if you wish to imply that the universe is infinite, and thatis has always existed, what was there before time, before infinity?

who created everything? how can things come to be from nothing if there is no creator? chance? create planet out of nothing and i will believe you.

and EVEN if you choose to tihnk that religion is wrong and incorrect, realize that it keeps balance in the world for the most part. it makes people live happy lives, which even if the values they live by were lies, it gives thema happy life, and forthe most part a content death. the definition of a human being is to seek, to learn, to try and understand. once someone finds an explanation for all that was formerly unexplained, he experiences true balance, equilibrium of all between himself and life, THIS is true happiness.

i too, was once an atheist. however i met God, and he took me in toshow me great wonders of his works. God's wonderfulness must be felt by one's self to be understood, it cannot be described.

i have had many experiences with the Father and time after time, he confirms his existence to me in manners rather alarming. often he reveals the future to me, visions occur to me quite often as well. one who does not understand such things might say they are just "imagination", and any connection between such things and occurences in the future are pure coincidence. you could say that, or you could realize that the odds of you knowing exactly what is going to happen in the next hour without no one ever informing you of it is probrably less then 10 $100 bills to fly into your window and land on your keyboard right now.

a few more words. God is justice, anyone which he might have "killed" as you call it, was delt as form of punishment for the crimes they committed. and as you claim, satan killed 10 people. what you failed to realize, is that satan gotall of those souls which God dealt justice to, and he has been torturing them in hell ever since. which is the crime? to deal a swift death to a wrongdooer, or torture him for all eterny because of it?

if there is no God, there is no satan, correct?

and if there is no satan, whois driving you so fiercily to oppose the religion which worships the one god who created everything, loves everyone, and gives everyone a secound chance? not to mention giving his child to be slaughtered on earth. if you are a parent you know what this would be like.

i will pray for all of you tonight, and i hope the father touches your heart and shows you the true path in life.

______________________________________________

pardon the typos or glued words which i missed, im only 15 years old, don't type that well.

 

i just saw the "blasphemy challenge.

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DO NOT SAY THAT!

you are damning yourself to eternal torture and pain! how can anyone be so blind! in the instructional video it even said so blatantly. i weep bitterly for the souls which have been thrown away due to that video. 

 


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These videos are to show we

These videos are to show we are 100% sure that the Christian god does not exist. And that is a false statistic made up by the anti-choice movement that most women who get abortions later regret it and consider it murder.

 

And we have answered the one about "how did the universe get here?" many times on here already. Why couldn't it always have been here? If everything that exists has to have been created, what created God? If God could have always been here, so could the universe.

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people will believe what

people will believe what they want to believe, whether athiest or religious, most of the time its because it suits them and makes life that easier to bear.

we also have to realise that we dont have a monopoly on knowledge, every generation that has gone by thought it was brainer that the generation previous, and the goes for us today, we dont know everything, maybe one day certian questions will be answered but just because we dont understand them now we should not dismiss them as false or falicy whatever our beliefs.

for instance, at one time the general opinion of the brains of the time thought the earth was flat, but we all know differently as time progressed and so did technology and understanding of the universe and earth.

Interesingly isaiah 40:22 says that the earth is round. how did he know that? he lived about the 8th century b.c.

one thing is for sure, all christian religions are divided in their beliefs and interpretation of various scriptures, why?? surely if they took out all the dogma and tradition and doctrine and also personal opinion out the scriptures and looked at the original writings, things maybe more clearer and less confusing. But unfortunately many of their followers like that kinda stuff and so there will always be friction between them.

i dont know much about the muslim faith but from what i see from recent events they too are divided in their interpretation of the scriptures, this is my personal observation.

many( not all) athiests are put of religion because of religion, they claim to represent god yet they act like the scriptures mean nothing or are pretty stories or they twist/change scriptures to suit their needs. athiests may also not like to think they maybe answerable to a higher being for the way they live their lives.

me, i look around see what man is and has done on the earth and the future frightens me, if this is all there is then the human race is truly doomed, now or way in the future, if this is what evolution has brought then it also has failed, we should be getting better not worse.

i would rather believe in god and be proven wrong on my deathbed than believe in nothing and be proven wrong on my deathbed.

there is nothing wrong in believing in god, it is religions interpretation of what THEY think god  wants us to do,not what god wants us to do, what is wrong.

also actions speak louder than words, do they practice what they preach with regard to the bibles opinion of murder, adultery, stealing etc.

you should not murder yet christian countries go to war and sometimes in the so called name of god kill other christians, that to me is hypocritical.

cant be bothered writing more at the mo but will latter, got me tea to get Smiling


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Tadlington wrote: people

Tadlington wrote:

people will believe what they want to believe, whether athiest or religious, most of the time its because it suits them and makes life that easier to bear.

we also have to realise that we dont have a monopoly on knowledge, every generation that has gone by thought it was brainer that the generation previous, and the goes for us today, we dont know everything, maybe one day certian questions will be answered but just because we dont understand them now we should not dismiss them as false or falicy whatever our beliefs.

for instance, at one time the general opinion of the brains of the time thought the earth was flat, but we all know differently as time progressed and so did technology and understanding of the universe and earth.

Interesingly isaiah 40:22 says that the earth is round. how did he know that? he lived about the 8th century b.c.

one thing is for sure, all christian religions are divided in their beliefs and interpretation of various scriptures, why?? surely if they took out all the dogma and tradition and doctrine and also personal opinion out the scriptures and looked at the original writings, things maybe more clearer and less confusing. But unfortunately many of their followers like that kinda stuff and so there will always be friction between them.

i dont know much about the muslim faith but from what i see from recent events they too are divided in their interpretation of the scriptures, this is my personal observation.

many( not all) athiests are put of religion because of religion, they claim to represent god yet they act like the scriptures mean nothing or are pretty stories or they twist/change scriptures to suit their needs. athiests may also not like to think they maybe answerable to a higher being for the way they live their lives.

me, i look around see what man is and has done on the earth and the future frightens me, if this is all there is then the human race is truly doomed, now or way in the future, if this is what evolution has brought then it also has failed, we should be getting better not worse.

i would rather believe in god and be proven wrong on my deathbed than believe in nothing and be proven wrong on my deathbed.

there is nothing wrong in believing in god, it is religions interpretation of what THEY think god wants us to do,not what god wants us to do, what is wrong.

also actions speak louder than words, do they practice what they preach with regard to the bibles opinion of murder, adultery, stealing etc.

you should not murder yet christian countries go to war and sometimes in the so called name of god kill other christians, that to me is hypocritical.

cant be bothered writing more at the mo but will latter, got me tea to get Smiling

 

All of your Pascal's wager and no true Scotsman fallacy invoking aside (good attempt at hiding them btw)

 Isaiah 40:22 talks about the "circle of the earth". A circle is a 2-dimensional (flat) shape. Wouldn't you think the God that created the earth would bother to tell those who wrote the Bible that he created a sphere (assuming that he did in the first place)?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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First of all

First of all -  

MattShizzle wrote:

These videos are to show we are 100% sure that the Christian god does not exist. And that is a false statistic made up by the anti-choice movement that most women who get abortions later regret it and consider it murder.

This is not a false or made-up statistic, there are many accounts of women who have had an abortion and regretted their decision later due to the physical and emotional distress it caused them.  Yes, I have read or watched them myself.

Also, do you honestly believe that because miscarriages happen that there is nothing wrong with abortion?  Isn't that like saying that because death happens there is nothing wrong with murder?  If you want to have a flippin point of view, you might want to try to base it on fact.

I'm not here to tell anyone how to think, but you may want to consider that there are certain aspects of Christianity or the world that we feeble humans were not meant to understand, cannot possibly fathom, and simply must accept - and I do based on faith.  Also, do any of you RSS actually believe that God owes anyone ANY explanation for the evil and suffering that exists in this world?  

I happen to concern myself much more with what will happen to me after my (physical) death than my shortass life in this world.  I am not suicidal nor do I believe that there is no purpose for my life or existence.  I am here to do what I can with what I have been given.

 Oh, and one more thing -

noor wrote:
So if I say that the tooth fairy imprisoned other fairies, I am affirming that the tooth fairy exists? (Circular reasoning)

No, Noor.  This just means that you haven't rejected the existence of the tooth fairy.  Yet.  You may want to look at what Sharky wrote again.

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Saying there are "many

Saying there are "many cases" is way different from saying "the majority." I see absolutely nothing wrong with abortion - it's a fucking cluster of cells for crying out loud. As far as I'm concerned it's about the moral equivalent of swatting a fly. And Life after death makes about as much sense as life before birth.

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Tadlington wrote: i would

Tadlington wrote:

i would rather believe in god and be proven wrong on my deathbed than believe in nothing and be proven wrong on my deathbed.

 Do you give any of your money to any Church in the process?

 

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smparker21 wrote: First of

smparker21 wrote:

First of all -  

MattShizzle wrote:

These videos are to show we are 100% sure that the Christian god does not exist. And that is a false statistic made up by the anti-choice movement that most women who get abortions later regret it and consider it murder.

This is not a false or made-up statistic, there are many accounts of women who have had an abortion and regretted their decision later due to the physical and emotional distress it caused them.  Yes, I have read or watched them myself.

 And how many of those women were brainwashed by religion to believe that abortion was wrong, and this is why they regretted it?  Let's see the studies.  Link us.  The only women I know that have regretted abortions have all regretted it due to the fact that they thought they sinned, this sort of circular logic doesn't prove your case, it proves to us the need to abandon religious dogma.

Quote:
Also, do you honestly believe that because miscarriages happen that there is nothing wrong with abortion?  Isn't that like saying that because death happens there is nothing wrong with murder?  If you want to have a flippin point of view, you might want to try to base it on fact.

What we're saying is, since the god character kills 7 million sperm each time a man ejaculates, people shouldn't feel morally at fault for killing one that they cant afford to raise properly.

Quote:
I'm not here to tell anyone how to think, but you may want to consider that there are certain aspects of Christianity or the world that we feeble humans were not meant to understand, cannot possibly fathom, and simply must accept - and I do based on faith. 

 If you can't possibly understand something yet accept it based on no proof (faith) you are meeting the definition of insane head on, and embracing it.

 

Quote:
 Also, do any of you RSS actually believe that God owes anyone ANY explanation for the evil and suffering that exists in this world?  

 No, because we know that Yahweh and Allah don't exist.  I think most of us assume that if a god exists, he's either evil, not all powerful, or incompetent and none of which would need an explanation as to why evil and suffering exists.

Quote:
I happen to concern myself much more with what will happen to me after my (physical) death than my shortass life in this world. 

I concern myself more over what will happen in my 4th life after I die twice after I'm dead.  I think this sort of fantasy world of pretending that I'll just keep going on forever helps avoid all the importance of this short life I have (the only life I have proof of).  The 2nd and 3rd lives are short, the 4th is the long one. 

(yeah, that's how silly it looks to us when you talk like that)

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All of your Pascal's wager

Quote:
All of your Pascal's wager and no true Scotsman fallacy invoking aside (good attempt at hiding them btw)

 Isaiah 40:22 talks about the "circle of the earth". A circle is a 2-dimensional (flat) shape. Wouldn't you think the God that created the earth would bother to tell those who wrote the Bible that he created a sphere (assuming that he did in the first place)?

yeah, sorry circle is right, my bad, so here is some research i come across on that point:-

The Hebrew word here rendered "circle" also may be translated "sphere." (A Concordance of the Hebrew and Chaldee Scriptures, by B. Davidson) Interestingly, regarding "circle" in this verse, the Scoffeld Reference Bible says in a marginal note: "A remarkable reference to the sphericity of the earth." Moffatt’s translation reads: "He sits over the round earth," and the Catholic Douay Version says here: "It is he that sitteth upon the globe of the earth." the Word of earth’s Creator would properly indicate that the earth was round, though the ancients in general thought it was flat.

Sapient wrote:

 Do you give any of your money to any Church in the process?

what i give to my religion i give freely and not under compulsion. so no plate is passed around so that you feel compelled to give. i also do not believe that the more you give the better a place in heaven you recieve, indeed, the bible(rev 14 :1-3) only mention 144,000 people who are redeemed from the earth, it doesnt mention anymore people who go to heaven, and i am not one of those people.

is this the point you  are getting at?

p.s i havent got the hang of this quote thing


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MattShizzle wrote:

MattShizzle wrote:

These videos are to show we are 100% sure that the Christian god does not exist. And that is a false statistic made up by the anti-choice movement that most women who get abortions later regret it and consider it murder.

 

And we have answered the one about "how did the universe get here?" many times on here already. Why couldn't it always have been here? If everything that exists has to have been created, what created God? If God could have always been here, so could the universe.

 

i find it interesting how you were the only person who dared attempt to question my post. very well. allow me to answer you your response. abortion is wrong. not only by christian standards, religious standards, but even by yours,you would think it was wrong . y ? according to you, this is the only life we get correct? well if that is so, by having an abortion you are denying a newborn child his life. his only life, just because you don't feel suited to have a child. if i knew for a fact this was all there was for me, and that i would never come to liveagain after i died, i sure as hell would rather go hungry for a few days then to get dismembered inside my mother before i was even born. abortion is murder.

now ill answer your secound post. the Bible says that God was "the alpha and the omega" "the BEGGINNG and the end". what does this mean? HE is what all things originated from, and where all things which have an end, end. HE was always there, because he IS time, he IS the beggining.

on to your infinite universe theory. much proof has been found of "background radiation" floating around in theuniverse , left over from the explosion of the big bang (creation), explain to me how this radiation got here if not from the big bang. what about the observation made by many scientists which point out that the universe is expanding? if the universe has always been expanding, obviously it started off small, to get big.

 

what about the delicate balance of things? if the expansion of the universe was off by one billion billionth, the universe would have recollapsed befre it ever got to its present size. what about the earth? i dont think i need to point out how perfectly balanced nature is here, before men screwed it all up that is.

feel free to attempt and answer my other questionsin my previous post. once you have an answer for which i cannot contradict in any way for all my questions regarding the matter, i will believe you.

and if you want to imply that much of it could be false, that perhaps the bible doesent tell the truth, then much of this site would be uncredible as well wouldn't it?

after all, pretty much what you are doing is attacking religions who worship the one true god of kindness, love, and justice. why don't you attempt to target pagan gods? gods of the aztecs which were offered human sacrifice veyoften,or the greatstone owl in the bohemian gove which human sacrifice still occurs secretly? considering this, if thereis anyone who is evil, wicked, and trying to limit people's minds, it is you, for only attacking the "good" God, and attempting to say the"bad" ones are good.

 

and i just saw the clips of the "God who wasent there. your contradictions are pathetic. i honoestly don't have time to write the answer to those things here, but if you guys have any voice communication medium such as "ventrilo" "teamspeak" or yahoo, to name a few, contact me. i would love to discuss such matters with you. however, allow me to point out that if you have commited the "blasphemy challenge", do not bother, even the bible says you should not waste time on those you cannot save.

 

Quote:
So, do you have the right to kill your own children?

YOU did not give life to your children. God simply used your body to make creating new life simpler, such as he did from adam to create eve. 


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Tadlington,  So the verse

Tadlington,

 So the verse says the earth is round as long as you stretch the translations to fit?

 You'd think that a God who wanted eneryone to accept who he is would be able to tell the people ghost writing for him what he wants them to know in unambiguous terms.

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Reddragon wrote: Why do

Reddragon wrote:

Why do atheists get all gooshy and emotional about people dieing or being killed?

Because there's no good reason to believe that our sentience continues after death.

 

Quote:
 

 First off you begin with the assumption that it's bad to die.

It's not just an assumption. Now, can you tell me why theists fear death so much?

  

Quote:

Realy though I would like an atheists who realy believes it's bad to die to give a logical(not emotional) reason for believing this.

There's no reason to believe that our sentience continues after brain death. And there's no good reason to believe in an afterlife.

 

Now, can you tell me why theists fear death?

And why would your own 'god' threaten people with a punishment of death, if death isn't such a bad thing?

2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

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nilzor wrote: You do have

nilzor wrote:

You do have to keep in mind what the Bible says is the main reason for death: humans brought death into the world (Rom 5:12). Humanity killed us all.

Illogical. This omnipotent, omniscient god would be responsible for creating the concept of death, and the possibility of it entering the world. Next, this omnipotent, omniscient god would be perfectly responsible for every parameter of his creation, meaning that he would and must have perfect responsibility for everything that occurs.

So attempting to move the responsibility for any outcome from a perfectly responsible omnipotent creator is simply ridiculous.

Quote:

 

God/Jesus offers you new life, for FREE, he died  once for all and is the only one who can save us (Rom 5:17-18).

This 'god' would be responsible for creating this dilemma in the first place.

Quote:

 

Even if God killed so or so many, he's the one who gave life in the first place, he has the full rights to take it.

So, do you have the right to kill your own children?

 

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nilzor wrote:You do have

accidental double post.


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totsadoodles

totsadoodles wrote:
OreosTheTrombone wrote:

One: When I ask Christians why there is evil in this world, most reply "Because God gave us Free Will", but they also believe God has set plan and is all-knowing, if he is all knowing then he knows what all our choices are (and they are set for us) then how do we really have free will?

I do believe that there is evil exists because of free will, but I don't think that God has a "plan" that we are forced to follow. God can still allow free will and be all-knowing. 

 

Nope. An omnipotent, omniscient creator is responsible for all the parameters of existence, which makes an omnipotent, omniscient creator perfectly responsible for every aspect of 'his' 'creation'

 

 

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s0m3b0dy wrote:  on to

s0m3b0dy wrote:

 on to your infinite universe theory. much proof has been found of "background radiation" floating around in theuniverse , left over from the explosion of the big bang (creation), explain to me how this radiation got here if not from the big bang. 

The "big bang" theory is not a 'creation theory', but a description of what occured at planck time, and immediately aftwards:

"Before a time classified as a Planck time, 10-43 seconds, all of the four fundamental forces are presumed to have been unified into one force. All matter, energy, space and time are presumed to have exploded outward from the original singularity. Nothing is known of this period - (from the perspective of the big bang - ed.)"

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/planck.html

2) There is no reason to hold that there MUST have been a creation point.

According to Penn State physicist Lee Smolin, there are three possible scenarios, not just one:

* [A] There is still a first moment in time, even when quantum mechanics is taken into consideration.

* [B] The singularity is eliminated by some quantum mechanical effect. As a result, when we run the clock back, the universe does not reach a state of infinite density. Something else happens when the universe reaches some very high density that allows time to continue indefinitely into the past.

* [C] Something new and strange and quantum mechanical happens to time, which is neither possibility A or B. For example, perhaps we reach a state where it is no longer appropriate to think that reality is composed of a series of moments that follow each other in a progression, one after another. In this case there is perhaps no singularity, but it may also not make sense to ask what happened before the universe was extremely dense.[6] [7]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/bigbang.html

One particular explanation of the third option: The theory of Stephen Hawkings holds that the universe is finite, but boundless, without any "beginning point"

http://www.lfrieling.com/univers.html

Another third scenario option:

The Myth of the Beginning of Time
String theory suggests that the big bang was not the origin of the universe but simply the outcome of a preexisting state
By Gabriele Veneziano

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i find it interesting how

i find it interesting how you were the only person who dared attempt to question my post. very well. allow me to answer you your response. abortion is wrong. not only by christian standards, religious standards, but even by yours,you would think it was wrong . y ? according to you, this is the only life we get correct? well if that is so, by having an abortion you are denying a newborn child his life. his only life, just because you don't feel suited to have a child. if i knew for a fact this was all there was for me, and that i would never come to liveagain after i died, i sure as hell would rather go hungry for a few days then to get dismembered inside my mother before i was even born. abortion is murder.

Interesting.

Let's suppose for a second that abortion = murder.  For you to be able to say that abortion is wrong (without resorting to religion), you must also say that murder is wrong -- not just sometimes, but all the time.  If you say that murder is sometimes ok, then it doesn't necessarily follow that abortion is wrong, and you have to come up with some other justification.

So... You are obviously opposed to the death sentence in any form... ever.

You are also opposed to fertility clinics because they "kill babies" all the time.

You are also opposed to the IUD as a method of birth control, as it is not 100% effective in preventing pregnancy, but it virtually always causes a miscarriage when fertilization occurs.

You are also a pacifist.  You believe that we should never defend ourselves with lethal force if our house, country, etc... is invaded.  You believe that if someone tries to kill you, you can protect yourself, but that you cannot, under any circumstances, kill the person who is trying to kill you.

It follows that as a good Christian who believes that murder is always wrong, you believe that America, as a Christian Nation, should destroy all of its guns and weapons, for if we used them, we would be sinning. 

    Ok, enough about the things you obviously believe, since all of these beliefs are naturally deduced from your position on abortion.

 

Would you care to chime in?  Do you agree with everything I've said?

 

 

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s0m3b0dy

s0m3b0dy wrote:

Quote:
So, do you have the right to kill your own children?

YOU did not give life to your children. God simply used your body to make creating new life simpler, such as he did from adam to create eve. 

So, we had no choice in the matter? No role, no responsibility?

Ok. Your god must be perfectly responsible, I will agree....

 

Now, can you explain why the fact that god 'created' life gives him the right to torture it or kill it?

Does might make right?

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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s0m3b0dy
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todangst wrote: s0m3b0dy

todangst wrote:
s0m3b0dy wrote:

on to your infinite universe theory. much proof has been found of "background radiation" floating around in theuniverse , left over from the explosion of the big bang (creation), explain to me how this radiation got here if not from the big bang.

The "big bang" theory is not a 'creation theory', but a description of what occured at planck time, and immediately aftwards:

"Before a time classified as a Planck time, 10-43 seconds, all of the four fundamental forces are presumed to have been unified into one force. All matter, energy, space and time are presumed to have exploded outward from the original singularity. Nothing is known of this period - (from the perspective of the big bang - ed.)"

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/astro/planck.html

2) There is no reason to hold that there MUST have been a creation point.

According to Penn State physicist Lee Smolin, there are three possible scenarios, not just one:

* [A] There is still a first moment in time, even when quantum mechanics is taken into consideration.

* [B] The singularity is eliminated by some quantum mechanical effect. As a result, when we run the clock back, the universe does not reach a state of infinite density. Something else happens when the universe reaches some very high density that allows time to continue indefinitely into the past.

* [C] Something new and strange and quantum mechanical happens to time, which is neither possibility A or B. For example, perhaps we reach a state where it is no longer appropriate to think that reality is composed of a series of moments that follow each other in a progression, one after another. In this case there is perhaps no singularity, but it may also not make sense to ask what happened before the universe was extremely dense.[6] [7]

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mark_vuletic/bigbang.html

One particular explanation of the third option: The theory of Stephen Hawkings holds that the universe is finite, but boundless, without any "beginning point"

http://www.lfrieling.com/univers.html

Another third scenario option:

The Myth of the Beginning of Time
String theory suggests that the big bang was not the origin of the universe but simply the outcome of a preexisting state
By Gabriele Veneziano

 i simply quoted "creation" because the point when the universewent"poof",was mroe likely then not the moment god created  the universe.something made that little point go off, and that, was God. 

abot the stephn hawkings theory. the only thing that it says is that we pretty much would be walking on the line of a circle trying to fid the limit. it doesent explain what i mentioned.

and you still didnt explain the background radiation floating around the universe. 


Hambydammit
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Seriously, man. I'm not

Seriously, man. I'm not trying to be rude, but would you mind using some capital letters and proof reading your posts?  I have to read them three or four times to make sure I know what you're saying.

 

Atheism isn't a lot like religion at all. Unless by "religion" you mean "not religion". --Ciarin

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todangst
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    s0m3b0dy wrote:  i

 

 


s0m3b0dy wrote:

 i simply quoted "creation" because the point when the universewent"poof"


And I just demonstrated that you're wrong. Big bang theory is not a creation account.


Quote:

bot the stephn hawkings theory. the only thing that it says is that we pretty much would be walking on the line of a circle trying to fid the limit. it doesent explain what i mentioned.

Yes, it does explain what you mentioned. It demonstrates that the universe could be finite both spatially and chronologically, meaning that there was not 'creation point'

Quote:

and you still didnt explain the background radiation floating around the universe.


What's there to explain?  That's due to the big bang, which again is a time of hyper expansion, and not a creation theory.

Those who know the good, do the good. - Socrates

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s0m3b0dy
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Hambydammit wrote:

Hambydammit wrote:

i find it interesting how you were the only person who dared attempt to question my post. very well. allow me to answer you your response. abortion is wrong. not only by christian standards, religious standards, but even by yours,you would think it was wrong . y ? according to you, this is the only life we get correct? well if that is so, by having an abortion you are denying a newborn child his life. his only life, just because you don't feel suited to have a child. if i knew for a fact this was all there was for me, and that i would never come to liveagain after i died, i sure as hell would rather go hungry for a few days then to get dismembered inside my mother before i was even born. abortion is murder.

Interesting.

Let's suppose for a second that abortion = murder. For you to be able to say that abortion is wrong (without resorting to religion), you must also say that murder is wrong -- not just sometimes, but all the time. If you say that murder is sometimes ok, then it doesn't necessarily follow that abortion is wrong, and you have to come up with some other justification.

So... You are obviously opposed to the death sentence in any form... ever.

You are also opposed to fertility clinics because they "kill babies" all the time.

You are also opposed to the IUD as a method of birth control, as it is not 100% effective in preventing pregnancy, but it virtually always causes a miscarriage when fertilization occurs.

You are also a pacifist. You believe that we should never defend ourselves with lethal force if our house, country, etc... is invaded. You believe that if someone tries to kill you, you can protect yourself, but that you cannot, under any circumstances, kill the person who is trying to kill you.

It follows that as a good Christian who believes that murder is always wrong, you believe that America, as a Christian Nation, should destroy all of its guns and weapons, for if we used them, we would be sinning.

Ok, enough about the things you obviously believe, since all of these beliefs are naturally deduced from your position on abortion.

 

Would you care to chime in? Do you agree with everything I've said?

 

 

 

what you have said is what the bible says would be the role-model christian. te corrupt christian faith today does not follow the path setby god, they follow their own rules.

as the apostle paul said "death is a victory for me" (correct me if im wrong, ihavent read the english bible, im brazillian. a true christian would reaize that death is the time to go to the father, if someone wanted to kill me, by all means i would make myself available, for i would be going to my father even faster!

 

and yes murder is wrong in any form or way. life doe snot belong to any man, therefore no one hasthe rightto take it away.even if the person commited the most horrible of crimes, at most, he should be locked up for life. justice belongs to God 


s0m3b0dy
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todangst

todangst wrote:

 

 


s0m3b0dy wrote:

i simply quoted "creation" because the point when the universewent"poof"


And I just demonstrated that you're wrong. Big bang theory is not a creation account.


Quote:

bot the stephn hawkings theory. the only thing that it says is that we pretty much would be walking on the line of a circle trying to fid the limit. it doesent explain what i mentioned.

Yes, it does explain what you mentioned. It demonstrates that the universe could be finite both spatially and chronologically, meaning that there was not 'creation point'

Quote:

and you still didnt explain the background radiation floating around the universe.


What's there to explain? That's due to the big bang, which again is a time of hyper expansion, and not a creation theory.

 

would you care to quote the other half of my first sentence which you cut off at the point where it would favor you?

and even if the universe is a a pace with finite spatially or chronologically, does this disprove that the "circle" which we are walking on could be expanding, or that it came from a single point? as faras i can see, we wouldnt notice much cna ge in the zsize of the circle we are walking around the bigger it got because we couldnt tell where was the beggining to start off with.

explain how the planets and galaxies are moving apart form each other if theuniverse is nto expanding.

again ill tell you why i said "(creation)" a few posts back. i only said that because that is the point when god created the universe by making that inifnitely small point go off. i wasent saying the "big bang" was a "creation theory". make sure and quite the entire phrasethis time and not only the half that favors you.


s0m3b0dy
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todangst wrote: s0m3b0dy

todangst wrote:
s0m3b0dy wrote:

Quote:
So, do you have the right to kill your own children?

YOU did not give life to your children. God simply used your body to make creating new life simpler, such as he did from adam to create eve.

So, we had no choice in the matter? No role, no responsibility?

Ok. Your god must be perfectly responsible, I will agree....

 

Now, can you explain why the fact that god 'created' life gives him the right to torture it or kill it?

Does might make right?

perhaps we did, perhaps we didnt. after all christ WAS born from a virgin. how would that be possible without a man?, you would ask.

life belongs to god. he only borrows it to living things, and he doesent tell you that you have 100 years before giving it back to him. no. he lets you hold it while he wants you to. if he feels like it, he has the right to take it away. and im not sure what you mean by " torture" it, but the closest thing that comes to mind for that would be some form of punishment dealt form god. if you are tihnking of a being who tortures someone for no reason at all, you are confusing god with satan my friend.


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What is this? "Invasion of

What is this? "Invasion of the irrational and illiterate"-day?