Former Nazi camp guard charged with 36,000 counts of accessory to murder.

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Former Nazi camp guard charged with 36,000 counts of accessory to murder.

 

Susspected 95 year old of being a Nazi concentration camp guard charged with 36,000 counts of accessory to murder.

 

 

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/418097-95-year-old-charged-as-accessory-to-36000-deaths-at-nazi-death

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 Talk about a waste of time

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Talk

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

So the moral high ground of goverment is fucking over minorities?

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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

So the moral high ground of goverment is fucking over minorities?

Usually it is fucking over the majority (those without government power)

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 So if Nazis hadn't

 So if Nazis hadn't murdered millions of Jews, isn't it quite possible that millions of Jews would have killed Germans? You believe Jews are commiting genocide against Palistinians, so why so hard to believe this would have happend to Germans? Kill or be killed. It's Darwinian Hunger Games.

Or should the population of Central Europe just be many times what it is now and everyone learn to get along in highly overpopulated conditions(ie homelessness)? You're so fucking angry about living in poverty so why shouldn't I believe genocide will be unavoidable unless population is controlled?

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Beyond Saving wrote: Talk

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

 

QFT. Israel won't rest until they all suffer, no matter the cost. No matter the involvement.

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The irony is that without

The irony is that without Hitler, the zionist movement probably would have become politically irrelevant like the Nation of Islam has. Before Hitler, many Jews were seeking to integrate with the societies they lived in and the movement had relatively little support among the Jewish. The racism, nationalism and extremism of the Zionists was not appealing to the average non-political Jewish who had no desire to live in the middle east and just wanted to live their lives in the homes they were born in. People tend to prefer the comfort of the known over the fear of the unknown, even if that means tolerating abuse. Without the sheer horror and brutality of the Holocaust, it is hard to believe that Israel would even exist today. Most Jews would have continued living where they were and would have eventually integrated into society and eventually overcome the bigotry. The majority likely would have continued to reject the zionist movement and the movement would have remained a few thousand nutjobs. 

 

Similarly, I think there is a strong argument that the Holocaust would not have happened if it weren't for the zionist movement fanning the flames. One of the reasons that the Jewish people made a target for Hitler was because the zionist movement sought to prevent integration and identified themselves as different. The zionist movement encouraged Jews in Germany not to view themselves as Germans of the Jewish faith, but to view themselves as a completely separate people. It is much easier to stir up hatred and fear over a group of people seen as completely different and when that group of people is viewed as trying to "take over" your way of life. Hitler needed an enemy to rally supporters and the zionist movement helped create that enemy.     

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: Talk

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

Really?

Ok, outside the government act of genocide that is not in dispute that the Nazi's committed, on a domestic level, just with even everyday domestic homicide, should there be a statute of limitations on murder?  If he was not a Nazi, and merely a man accused of killing his wife 50 years ago, should that be ignored?

I doiubt you couild get any survivor of the holocaust to agree with you on this. Now if you can show me where this accused gaurd was denied due process, and was simply taken out and shot without any papers filed to a court, which were, and he was not shot on spot, then you can bitch about his rights being violated. 

 

Now if I was his defence lawyer, I would make the argument that his service was under duress. It was also common back then for the Nazis to threaten the families and kids of anyone who didn't do their bidding. But you are stupidly assuming that he isn't being given an attempt to defend himself in court. That arrest without his being shot on the spot is far more than the Nazis gave their prisoners.

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 And another thing. I am

 

And another thing. I am fucking sick of my species making it an "us vs them" label issue. There is also lots of fucking crap Bibi does currently that I dispise.  I don't like the sell of a religious state which is what he wants to make Israel by institutionalizing the country's constitution based on the Talmud. Just like I hate it when Christians try to claim that the founders based our U.S. constitution on the bible. Just like I hate that Saudi Arabia and Iran base their governments on religion.

 

It still does not justify genocide of any group in any direction. Same fucking fallacy that right wingers fall for in claiming Russia under Stalin was a atheist state. NO, it had an atheist leader, that can be argued, but just like Hitler who was his own brand of deist/Catholic/occult, Stalin also lead a nation of believers. Even Cuba today is still a Catholic majority. 

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

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 And another thing. I am

 

And another thing. I am fucking sick of my species making it an "us vs them" label issue. There is also lots of fucking crap Bibi does currently that I dispise.  I don't like the sell of a religious state which is what he wants to make Israel by institutionalizing the country's constitution based on the Talmud. Just like I hate it when Christians try to claim that the founders based our U.S. constitution on the bible. Just like I hate that Saudi Arabia and Iran base their governments on religion.

 

It still does not justify genocide of any group in any direction. Same fucking fallacy that right wingers fall for in claiming Russia under Stalin was a atheist state. NO, it had an atheist leader, that can be argued, but just like Hitler who was his own brand of deist/Catholic/occult, Stalin also lead a nation of believers. Even Cuba today is still a Catholic majority. 

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Talk about a waste of time and money, not to mention the sheer malevolence of fucking with an old man just to make yourself feel better. Nothing is worse than assholes who believe they have the moral high-ground and government power.

Really?

Ok, outside the government act of genocide that is not in dispute that the Nazi's committed, on a domestic level, just with even everyday domestic homicide, should there be a statute of limitations on murder?  If he was not a Nazi, and merely a man accused of killing his wife 50 years ago, should that be ignored?

If someone commits murder, then goes for 50 years without committing another crime, are they really a threat to society? What gain is there for punishing them now?

Quote:

I doiubt you couild get any survivor of the holocaust to agree with you on this.

Who cares? 

Quote:

Now if you can show me where this accused gaurd was denied due process, and was simply taken out and shot without any papers filed to a court, which were, and he was not shot on spot, then you can bitch about his rights being violated. 

Now if I was his defence lawyer, I would make the argument that his service was under duress. It was also common back then for the Nazis to threaten the families and kids of anyone who didn't do their bidding. But you are stupidly assuming that he isn't being given an attempt to defend himself in court. That arrest without his being shot on the spot is far more than the Nazis gave their prisoners.

Oh boy, you are better than a Nazi, congratufuckinglations. What a high goal to aim for. 

 

The guy is 95 years old, he is very likely to die any day. A murder trial takes years. Even if he is eventally found not guilty, he will spend most or possibly all of his remaining life at trial. And for what? What the fuck does anyone gain from it? He was a fucking 20-something who's only alleged crime was signing up to serve in the millitary of his home country. Even if he was utterly horrified by what was going on around him, what the fuck was he supposed to do?!? He was a peon, with no authority over anyone and would have been harshly punished, possibly even killed, for failing to obey orders.

Most likely, he wasn't even a Nazi. Young men didn't volunteer for the German military, they were conscripted. And refusing meant prison or being sent to a concentration camp (only about 1/3rd of concentration camp victims were Jewish. The rest were communists, prisoners of war, political prisoners, homosexuals, and even common criminals. Draft dodgers were given a black triangle. Care to guess how nicely THEY were treated?) 

We all know you are a coward, would you have stood up and let yourself be put into a concentration camp on principle? Or would you have gone to the military signup and been grateful you were given a job where you were unlikely to be killed in trench warfare? When you saw the brutality, would you have stood up and gotten yourself the same treatment in a vain attempt to stop it? Of course you wouldn't have. Not only would it be suicidal and completely irrational, it would require bravery way past the point of stupidity. Personally, I have no idea what I would do in that situation. I can't even comprehend having to make that decision.  

Behind the keyboard in a warm comfortable home with virtually no risk of being physically harmed by anyone you are brave enough to pass judgment on a 95 year old man for making very hard decisions over 70 years ago. You, a middle aged guy who has never had to make a truly hard decision in your entire life. When you know, I know, and everyone here knows that in his same position you would almost certainly have just sat there and done nothing, just trying to survive yourself. For this guy, he made very hard decisions in an environment where he had absolutely no power to make any real changes, an environment created by those 3x older than him. Now, he is spending the last years of his life being judged for those decisions by people who weren't even BORN when he made them. That is a real shame.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:I don't side

Brian37 wrote:

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

If you have good reason to believe that the person will never murder again, then what purpose would you have for wanting them to be punished other than revenge? 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

If you have good reason to believe that the person will never murder again, then what purpose would you have for wanting them to be punished other than revenge? 

 

Holy crap asshole, this isn't like spilling hot coffee on someone. 

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

If you have good reason to believe that the person will never murder again, then what purpose would you have for wanting them to be punished other than revenge? 

 

Holy crap asshole, this isn't like spilling hot coffee on someone. 

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I don't side with the dicision to follow up on this charge out of a sense of revenge. I side with this dicission beacuse it would be what I would want, if someone murdered me, even if only on a domestic level. If it was revenge on the part of the court, there would be no paperwork, no offical charges, no opportunity for the guy to defend himself. They could have simply taken him out on the streets and shot him. 

If you have good reason to believe that the person will never murder again, then what purpose would you have for wanting them to be punished other than revenge? 

 

Holy crap asshole, this isn't like spilling hot coffee on someone. 

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 There was a case I saw on

 

There was a case I saw on a documentary about a guy who murdered a cop, went on to clean up his life, and ended up owning a chain of gas stations. How does that make the cold case any less important to the cop's family. They didn't solve the murder for almost 40 years. 

It would be one thing in this case if he had been arrested back then, charged and convicted, then let out and did the same thing. 

Again, what would you want for your loved ones, if you were murdered. Would you want them to give up on holding those to account who did it?

 

The "forgiveness" aspect of war isn't about forgetting. And again, you must have missed the part where he wasn't drug out on the streets and shot on spot. You also missed the part that posted about what I would offer as a defense if I was his lawyer. 

He is getting due process. And again, that is far more than the Nazis gave their prisoners. 

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  There is a reason that

 

There is a reason that most soldiers who fought for Germany were not charged, and reasons many were after the war. 

Even Oscar Shindler colaborated with the Nazis, but his intent was to save lives, not comitt genocide. If he had been discovered for the traitor he was to the Germans, he wouldn't have been able to save as many lives as he did. 

And even with the Japanese, they had their own Oscar Shindler in the name of Chiune Sugiraha whom, along with his wife, risked his life forging documents, especially pasports to allow minorities and Jews to flee occupied territory that Japan controlled. 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiune_Sugihara

 

Now the only two defenses this guy has is that he was under duress, or that he had an alterior motive to save the people he was sanctioned to keep imprisoned. And again, he was charged with paperwork, in a court, not shot on spot, and that was far more than the Nazis gave their captured.

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Brian37 wrote:There was a

Brian37 wrote:

There was a case I saw on a documentary about a guy who murdered a cop, went on to clean up his life, and ended up owning a chain of gas stations. How does that make the cold case any less important to the cop's family. They didn't solve the murder for almost 40 years. 

It would be one thing in this case if he had been arrested back then, charged and convicted, then let out and did the same thing. 

What is the difference? He went on to become a contributing member of society. What benefit is there in locking him up 40 years later other than revenge? Does it really make things better for the family of the deceased? 40-years later, hopefully they have dealt with their grief and moved on with their lives. 

 

Quote:

Again, what would you want for your loved ones, if you were murdered. Would you want them to give up on holding those to account who did it?

My initial reaction would be a strong desire to go kill them myself in the most creatively painful way I could think up. That feeling might take quite some time to go away, but it would (at least I hope it would, else I would just be a miserable person for anyone to be around). That reaction would be wrong, and I hope I would have the personal strength to control my urges. Much more likely today than 20-years ago. 

40-years later, I would imagine that I wouldn't even want to dredge the issue back up and experience the pain again. And again, to what end? How does society benefit from punishing a person who has gone 40-years as a law abiding citizen? How does the family benefit from going through a lengthy trial digging up all the painful memories? If someone still has significant problems dealing with their grief 40-years after a murder, they need a psychologist, not a lawyer. 

And how in the hell do you even imagine it is possible to have anything approaching a "fair trial" 40 years after the fact? It is hard enough to rely on witness testimony for what happened last week. 

Quote:

The "forgiveness" aspect of war isn't about forgetting. And again, you must have missed the part where he wasn't drug out on the streets and shot on spot. You also missed the part that posted about what I would offer as a defense if I was his lawyer. 

He is getting due process. And again, that is far more than the Nazis gave their prisoners. 

Due process my ass. The guy is 95, he will likely be dead before the jury even renders a verdict. You might as well just shoot him, it would make his last days less miserable. Going through a murder trial is not exactly a Sunday walk in the park. They are torturing the old man for no reason. What point is there other than vindictiveness? He was a peon. A pawn in a huge game who didn't have control over where the fuck he could piss let alone what was happening at a concentration camp. If he was some high level SS officer, maybe there is an argument, but even then 70 years is a long ass time to decide to start digging up criminal allegations. Even if he is the most evil hateful bastard in the world, who cheered Hitler, personally tortured a bunch of people and jacks off to memories of it, nature is going to take care of his ass within a decade or so anyway. What gain is there to anyone putting him on trial?  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Now the only

Brian37 wrote:

Now the only two defenses this guy has is that he was under duress, or that he had an alterior motive to save the people he was sanctioned to keep imprisoned. And again, he was charged with paperwork, in a court, not shot on spot, and that was far more than the Nazis gave their captured.

There is no question that he was under duress. Germany had a law requiring all fit males aged 20-40 had to be in the military, under threat of imprisonment. That is an indisputable fact, we have copies of the laws. We don't need a trial to know that. The only thing you could attempt to determine at trial is whether he was eager to sign up or reluctant. But even that is impossible to prove since anyone who knew him before he went to the military is almost certainly dead. What is a trial going to find out? How can he reasonably be expected to prove anything in his defense? Any possible witnesses are dead. And again, suppose the trial somehow reveals him to have been an eager torturing fucker who delighted in his work- what is the benefit?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Revenge isn't justice, it's

Revenge isn't justice, it's merely escalation. That is why there's so much anti-jew sentiment these days. The jews decided revenge was more important than peace and prosperity. So Israel is a shithole that closely mirrors nazi Germany, while Germany is now one of the 5 most powerful and successful nations on the planet.

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Vastet wrote: The jews

Vastet wrote:
The jews decided revenge was more important than peace and prosperity. So Israel is a shithole that closely mirrors nazi Germany, while Germany is now one of the 5 most powerful and successful nations on the planet.

Or perhaps the Jews learned that its kill or be killed.

German birth rate is 1.50. Palistine is 4.01. Israel is 3.11. This is why Israel/Palesine is violent shithole compared to Germany.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:Vastet wrote: The

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The jews decided revenge was more important than peace and prosperity. So Israel is a shithole that closely mirrors nazi Germany, while Germany is now one of the 5 most powerful and successful nations on the planet.

Or perhaps the Jews learned that its kill or be killed.

German birth rate is 1.50. Palistine is 4.01. Israel is 3.11. This is why Israel/Palesine is violent shithole compared to Germany.

Sure, if you decide to pick one random number and ignore all other history. I am pretty sure the real cause is that they eat more hummus in Israel. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:.Sure,

Beyond Saving wrote:
.

Sure, if you decide to pick one random number and ignore all other history. I am pretty sure the real cause is that they eat more hummus in Israel. 

Yes, it's the gas from eating all that hummas that is causing them to fight of land and water. Not that there are too many people. Thanks for enlightening me.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:Vastet wrote: The

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
The jews decided revenge was more important than peace and prosperity. So Israel is a shithole that closely mirrors nazi Germany, while Germany is now one of the 5 most powerful and successful nations on the planet.

Or perhaps the Jews learned that its kill or be killed.

German birth rate is 1.50. Palistine is 4.01. Israel is 3.11. This is why Israel/Palesine is violent shithole compared to Germany.

Germany has a lower growth rate because it is so successful, but the indoctrinated EXC can never accept the reality that population is not a problem. Everything EXC says is a lie.

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Vastet wrote:Germany has a

Vastet wrote:
Germany has a lower growth rate because it is so successful, but the indoctrinated EXC can never accept the reality that population is not a problem. Everything EXC says is a lie.

Sucess breeds sucess. Labor shotages meant that workers could negociate a good salary, they could afford a home and not be a rent slave.

So why would they import so many people from a failed society and not expect failure in Germany? The elites needed cheaper labor and renters.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:Vastet

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Germany has a lower growth rate because it is so successful, but the indoctrinated EXC can never accept the reality that population is not a problem. Everything EXC says is a lie.

Sucess breeds sucess. Labor shotages meant that workers could negociate a good salary, they could afford a home and not be a rent slave.

So why would they import so many people from a failed society and not expect failure in Germany? The elites needed cheaper labor and renters.

 

Everything EXC says is a lie. Germany has not been significantly different from any other western nation, except that they have a superior socialism net to help people having trouble.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.