Unconventional crew wins NY Congressional race.

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Unconventional crew wins NY Congressional race.

 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ocasio-cortezs-upset-victory-unconventional-crew-56428952

Her supporters "work" as photographers, actors, bloggers, etc... They don't have jobs, they have hobbies. They would never do a job that was difficult, dangerous or dirty. They want the rest of society to foot the bill so they can follow their heart. That is their real agenda.

They demand free healthcare for all, but would never work taking care of sick people. They want education for everyone but would never work all day teaching children with a learning disablity. Everything problem is dumped onto the working taxpayers. The don't want dignity for all, they want free stuff for themselves.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Whiny little bitch can't

Whiny little bitch can't handle the fact that socialism is the best option and some people figured it out.

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 Highly delusional idiot

 Highly delusional idiot about who progressive/socialist/communist activists really are. 

They nearly all have 'careers' as musicians, artitsts, writers, etc... They don't work. Work is for the unlighted people that don't appreciate their great love of the arts. They must follow their hearts. People that work and pay high taxes don't have fucking time to be political activists.

Health care is a human right, but it doesn't make them give up their passion to instead take care of sick people.

They demand affordable housing but would never pound a single nail doing construciton.

They demand everyone be fed quality food but would never pull weeds all day on an organic farm.

Since these people are paying little or no taxes, why not force them to work in hospitals, constuction, farming and give up their passion for arts?

Because you're a fucking lazy scam artist just like these people. You all use taxation to steal because you don't have the balls to break into people's homes.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Really stupid moron who has

Really stupid moron who has no clue whatsoever what socialism or communism is talking out his ass about them as usual. Nothing to see here, move along.

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Vastet wrote:Really stupid

Vastet wrote:
Really stupid moron who has no clue whatsoever what socialism or communism is talking out his ass about them as usual. Nothing to see here, move along.

Also, a lot of these progressive activists are into new age religion shit like energy healing and past life therapy. Vastet's utopia would mean morons can whatever crazy shit they please while others pay the bills. Start a church, go on a missionary trip. It's OK cause the taxpayers are paying the bills.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Vastet wrote:Really stupid

Vastet wrote:
Really stupid moron who has no clue whatsoever what socialism or communism is talking out his ass about them as usual. Nothing to see here, move along.

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EXC

EXC wrote:

 https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/ocasio-cortezs-upset-victory-unconventional-crew-56428952

Her supporters "work" as photographers, actors, bloggers, etc... They don't have jobs, they have hobbies. They would never do a job that was difficult, dangerous or dirty. They want the rest of society to foot the bill so they can follow their heart. That is their real agenda.

They demand free healthcare for all, but would never work taking care of sick people. They want education for everyone but would never work all day teaching children with a learning disablity. Everything problem is dumped onto the working taxpayers. The don't want dignity for all, they want free stuff for themselves.

I think you are a walking fallacy generator.


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 So this news story is fake

 So this news story is fake or just a statistical anomaly? Libtards are all so dedicated to 'healthcare for all' that they give up their carrer/hobbies to take care of the sick? Why didn't these supporters do that?

If healthcare, housing, food, etc... are all human rights, why doesn't that mean Libtards should be drafted into doing jobs to provide these things? Why is providing these a burden for taxpayers and not the Libtards pursuing their love of the arts and new age religion?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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What's fake is your

What's fake is your interpretation of events. Lots of countries have health care and education for all and every single one of them is better off because of it.

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Vastet wrote:What's fake is

Vastet wrote:
What's fake is your interpretation of events. Lots of countries have health care and education for all and every single one of them is better off because of it.

They all have doctor/nurse/hospital bed shortages at critical levels. The rich and powerful can hop on a plane and get whatever medical services they want. They can move their money oversees if taxes go up. Is this sustainable? What would be wrong with a draft?

But there is never a shortage of actors/musicians/artists/new age healers/politial activists. Funny how that works.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:They all have

EXC wrote:
They all have doctor/nurse/hospital bed shortages at critical levels.

Everything EXC says is a lie. Americans have longer waiting times than all of them combined because you have no health care system.

EXC wrote:
The rich and powerful can hop on a plane and get whatever medical services they want.

That's true with or without health care.

EXC wrote:
They can move their money oversees if taxes go up.

They can go to jail for it and have their accounts frozen and seized.

EXC wrote:
Is this sustainable?

Health care has been proved to be sustainable by every country that uses it.

EXC wrote:
What would be wrong with a draft?

What does a military program have to do with health care?

EXC wrote:
But there is never a shortage of actors/musicians/artists/new age healers/politial activists. Funny how that works.

Funny how they aren't the majority and you have never established them as even a significant minority and I've proved you a liar.

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Vastet wrote:Whiny little

Vastet wrote:
Whiny little bitch can't handle the fact that socialism is the best option and some people figured it out.

 

Are you nuts?? Most of the candidates she endorsed LOST in the primaries 2 days ago & many Democrats are AVOIDING her altogether! Even OBAMA refused to endorse her!

Even liberal Politico says "Down with Socialism" after Ocasio- Gonzalez-Rodriguez-Sanchez-Ramirez-Cortez got her butt kicked! 

 

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/08/08/democratic-socialism-sanders-ocasio-cortez-2018-primary-results-219161

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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lol you're retarded if you

lol you're retarded if you think a massive policy shift like rebalancing socialism and capitalism could happen in a few months. It'll take decades.

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Vastet wrote:. EXC

Vastet wrote:
EXC wrote:
What would be wrong with a draft?
What does a military program have to do with health care?

I'm talking about government forcing people to take care of the sick that can't pay for healthcare, work on a farm to grow organic food for the poor, construct housing for the poor. I mention this to leftists, this usually gets them to shut up. They only want others(i.e. taxpayers in high tax bracket than them) to be forced to sacrifice, never themselves. If the goverment can draft soldiers, why not nurses, farmers, home builders? Why is the education system follow your heart and train for whatever career you please?

The fact is Socialism and Communism are supposed to be workers revolutions, but the leaders and activists of these moverment almost never really work. Marx was a writer. Bernie Sanders was kicked out of a hippie commune for not working instead just talking politics all day. These people are the same. For example, they want to be an actor on Broadway, but they don't want to have to work while they pursue their dream, so they want free healthcare, subisidized food, acting/music school and housing.

If you really believed the propagada you repeat, you would demand the goverment force people to work providing healthcare, food and housing. if you really believed taxes pay for essential public services, you would want goverment to intervene in cases where someone pays little or no taxes and force these people to work or train for work. And you wouldn't think that non-taxpayers should be allowed to have as many kids as they please. Instead the left does the opposite and rewards non-taxpayers with welfare and is OK with the current system where there is a wide disparity in taxes paid and benefits received.

You're the same as what if found with religious people, you don't really believe the propaganda you repeat. You're just a non-thinking tool used by the lazy people in society to get a free lunch. Until the society enevitably collapses.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:I'm talking about

EXC wrote:
I'm talking about government forcing people to take care of the sick that can't pay for healthcare, work on a farm to grow organic food for the poor, construct housing for the poor.

Delusions. That isn't socialism.

EXC wrote:
I mention this to leftists, this usually gets them to shut up.

Because they realize you're so incredibly stupid that 99% of the entire population, past and present, would have nothing to do with you and you aren't worth talking to.

EXC wrote:
They only want others(i.e. taxpayers in high tax bracket than them) to be forced to sacrifice, never themselves.

Yeah too bad you aren't talking to a leftist here. I won't stand for your lies or stupidity and will challenge them so long as I draw breath.

EXC wrote:
If the goverment can draft soldiers, why not nurses, farmers, home builders?

Nothing is preventing government from doing so now.

EXC wrote:
Why is the education system follow your heart and train for whatever career you please?

That's a lie.

EXC wrote:
The fact is Socialism and Communism are supposed to be workers revolutions, but the leaders and activists of these moverment almost never really work.

Because they aren't socialism or communism but actually capitalism.

EXC wrote:
Marx was a writer. Bernie Sanders was kicked out of a hippie commune for not working instead just talking politics all day.

Hippies don't work you're so full of shit it's hilarious.

EXC wrote:
These people are the same. For example, they want to be an actor on Broadway, but they don't want to have to work while they pursue their dream, so they want free healthcare, subisidized food, acting/music school and housing.

How you could be so stupid as to say socialism is government forcing people down specific lines of work then in the next breath complain that people wouldn't choose useful occupations to study shows that an insect has more functioning brain cells than you do. If the government is going to draft people to be farmers and doctors then people aren't going to have a choice in education, retard.

EXC wrote:
If you really believed the propagada you repeat, you would demand the goverment force people to work providing healthcare,

If you had a functioning brain cell you'd recall that for years I've supported a socialism where if you aren't willing to work you get thrown out or imprisoned and forced to work. Instead you're a broken record of stupidity who has been making up the same lies for years and making it so incredibly easy to prove you're the dumbest person who ever lived.

EXC wrote:
if you really believed taxes pay for essential public services, you would want goverment to intervene in cases where someone pays little or no taxes and force these people to work or train for work.

No taxes in socialism.

EXC wrote:
And you wouldn't think that non-taxpayers should be allowed to have as many kids as they please.

Yeah actually I would because people choose to have between 0 and 2 children on average when they are educated. I'd make sure they were educated so the population would fall not skyrocket.

EXC wrote:
Instead the left does the opposite and rewards non-taxpayers with welfare and is OK with the current system where there is a wide disparity in taxes paid and benefits received.

The disparity is that the rich pay less and get more.

EXC wrote:
You're the same as what if found with religious people, you don't really believe the propaganda you repeat. You're just a non-thinking tool used by the lazy people in society to get a free lunch. Until the society enevitably collapses.

You literally are a religious idiot spouting lies and fantasies as if they had anything to do with reality.

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Vastet wrote:If you had a

Vastet wrote:
If you had a functioning brain cell you'd recall that for years I've supported a socialism where if you aren't willing to work you get thrown out or imprisoned and forced to work.

But in the 'other' Socialism that is commonly understood by everyone else in the world, if you don't work, you still get free healthcare, food and shelter. If Ms. Ocasio-Cortez has her way, her supporters get tons of free stuff and taxpayers get the bill. Quite a difference from what you propose.

So either the other Socialsts highjacked the original meaning of the word or you did. So you are either dumb for continuing to use a word whose meaning has completely changed, or you are really dumb for not inventing a new word for something completely different than everyone else that uses the word. Using a word that only you understand its unique meaning is pretty dumb.

Vastet wrote:

No taxes in socialism.

So you also want a no tax society??? But you always believe taxes are so necessary in the past.

So then then, if your "a Socialism" actually worked, it would only be a one generation implementation right? Everyone would have a good job from their good educaton, they wouldn't have more babies than they could afford. No more need for police, prisions, etc... The next generation could all afford to educate their own children. Then you'd have an all voluntary, zero taxation society, true? No more need for Socialism.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:But in the 'other'

EXC wrote:
But in the 'other' Socialism that is commonly understood by everyone else in the world, if you don't work, you still get free healthcare, food and shelter.

No, you don't. Only extreme left wing idiots espouse such an ideal and only right wing nut jobs parade such a ridiculous ideal as a fundamental reason as to why socialism cannot work.

EXC wrote:
If Ms. Ocasio-Cortez has her way, her supporters get tons of free stuff and taxpayers get the bill. Quite a difference from what you propose.

Maybe maybe not. I don't care enough to look into her, she has nothing to do with me and never will. But considering your track record on the truth I can dismiss your claims as most likely lies.

EXC wrote:
So either the other Socialsts highjacked the original meaning of the word or you did.

Considering I'm the one using the actual definition of socialism the answer to that is clear.

EXC wrote:
So you are either dumb for continuing to use a word whose meaning has completely changed, or you are really dumb for not inventing a new word for something completely different than everyone else that uses the word.

False dichotomy. The third option you ignore that is the truth is that you're a liar who misrepresents every left wing and most or all right wing philosophies.

EXC wrote:
Using a word that only you understand its unique meaning is pretty dumb.

No you're dumb for not knowing the accepted definition. Anyone who misrepresents socialism is equally dumb.

EXC wrote:
So you also want a no tax society??? But you always believe taxes are so necessary in the past.

I've said repeatedly that taxes are the tradeoff society makes for excessive embrace of capitalism. This is not new so pretending it is just further shows your absolute stupidity. As long as capitalism is dominant taxes are absolutely necessary for a stable, productive, sustainable, advancing society. You want to take away stability and sustainability and advancement and production then you take away taxes and double down on capitalism removing all socialist programs. Then watch as society falls back into the dark ages within a single generation.

EXC wrote:
So then then, if your Socialism actually worked, it would only be a one generation implementation right? Everyone would have a good job from their good educaton, they wouldn't have more babies than they could afford. No more need for police, prisions, etc... The next generation could all afford to educate their own children. Then you'd have an all voluntary, zero taxation society, true? No more need for Socialism.

That would be socialism, albeit with a highly unrealistic expectation of utopian conditions.
Socialism isn't forced on people. Anything that is forced on the population isn't socialism, by definition.

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Vastet wrote:EXC wrote:But

Vastet wrote:
EXC wrote:
But in the 'other' Socialism that is commonly understood by everyone else in the world, if you don't work, you still get free healthcare, food and shelter.
No, you don't. Only extreme left wing idiots espouse such an ideal and only right wing nut jobs parade such a ridiculous ideal as a fundamental reason as to why socialism cannot work.

Then can you explain why there are no conditions such as welfare recipients must work or be in a job training program. Students can not study whatever they please. In fact the left supports tax dollars going for such things as gender studies and other worthless degrees. Whenever any attempt to change this is done, leftist go bad shit crazy about starving people and kicking them to the curb. If only a few left wing extremists support the current system of rewarding non-work, why do we have it?

 

Vastet wrote:
Considering I'm the one using the actual definition of socialism the answer to that is clear.No you're dumb for not knowing the accepted definition.

Anyone who misrepresents socialism is equally dumb.

The word may have been hijacked by scammers. The meaning of words changes all the time. It is dumb to use a word that no longer means what it orginally did.

Do you think all these supporters of "Democratic-Socialism" really want to give up their Broadway dreams, new age healling, rock bands, etc... to be around sick people and pound nails in the hot sun all day long? So why don't you get mad at them. I'm telling you the facts of who these people are. They are the ones that hijacked the meaning of the word.

Vastet wrote:

You want to take away stability and sustainability and advancement and production then you take away taxes and double down on capitalism removing all socialist programs.

No. I'm in favor of helping people that are in a bad situation. But the need to be required to work or study for actual jobs and not have more children until they can prove they can take care of them. A rational social contract, not entitlements just for being born. But I don't see anyone on the left with this point of view. They claim socialist programs and to study something useless are an unconditonal birth-rights. If you disagree with them, why not vent your anger at them not me?

Vastet wrote:

 That would be socialism, albeit with a highly unrealistic expectation of utopian conditions. Socialism isn't forced on people. Anything that is forced on the population isn't socialism, by definition.

OK, so you want a 100% voluntary society, same as me? The goverment doesn't need to force things on people. How exactly is Capitalism forced upon us? 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:Then can you

EXC wrote:
Then can you explain why there are no conditions such as welfare recipients must work or be in a job training program.

Since most or all social assistance programs do in fact require the recipient to work, or at least that they show they are attempting to find work or advancing their education, your question is invalid.

EXC wrote:
Students can not study whatever they please. In fact the left supports tax dollars going for such things as gender studies and other worthless degrees.

Left wing retards supporting stupid and useless lines of education has nothing to do with socialism.

EXC wrote:
Whenever any attempt to change this is done, leftist go bad shit crazy about starving people and kicking them to the curb.

Again this has nothing to do with socialism.

EXC wrote:
If only a few left wing extremists support the current system of rewarding non-work, why do we have it?

We don't. Why are you lying?

EXC wrote:
The word may have been hijacked by scammers. The meaning of words changes all the time. It is dumb to use a word that no longer means what it orginally did.

The dictionary definition hasn't changed significantly in at least 120 years so you're still lying.

EXC wrote:
Do you think all these supporters of "Democratic-Socialism" really want to give up their Broadway dreams, new age healling, rock bands, etc... to be around sick people and pound nails in the hot sun all day long?

Why should I care? If socialism is embraced to a greater degree the average education will increase significantly and the idiots will die off and be replaced with intelligent people.

EXC wrote:
So why don't you get mad at them.

They aren't the ones throwing lies in my face, you are. Whenever I encounter an irrational proponent of socialism I shoot them down just as hard and fast as I shoot liars like you down. Just so happens there's a lot more idiots in your camp than theirs.

EXC wrote:
I'm telling you the facts of who these people are.

And I'm telling you I don't give a fuck because they aren't on my team.

EXC wrote:
They are the ones that hijacked the meaning of the word.

And I'm making sure their attempt fails. I'll also point out it was idiots like you who taught them their irrational views in the first place. Right wing retards who lied about socialism for decades out of convenience taught left wing retards that the right wing interpretation of socialism was socialism. Blame your own stupidity.

EXC wrote:
No. I'm in favor of helping people that are in a bad situation.

No you are in favour of allowing affluential individuals volunteering to help individuals in a bad situation. If they choose not to so be it. If noone wants to help the person in a bad situation, too bad for them.

EXC wrote:
But the need to be required to work or study for actual jobs and not have more children until they can prove they can take care of them.

Yeah you demand that which already exists as well as a program that science has proved unnecessary and that almost noone would agree to. In other words, you want to create more problems.

EXC wrote:
A rational social contract, not entitlements just for being born. But I don't see anyone on the left with this point of view.

You don't look. For years you have made shit up instead of actually reading peoples positions.

EXC wrote:
They claim socialist programs and to study something useless are an unconditonal birth-rights. If you disagree with them, why not vent your anger at them not me?

Again, you're the one in my face lying. Not them. Bring one of them here and see what happens.

EXC wrote:
OK, so you want a 100% voluntary society, same as me? The goverment doesn't need to force things on people. How exactly is Capitalism forced upon us?

How isn't it? Nearly every rich and powerful individual in the entire world is doing everything they can to weigh the scales towards capitalism. If every billionaire and politician were a socialist you'd have an argument. But the opposite is true. And it will remain true because any socialist who views socialism rationally AND also has the spine to live by their ethics will never amass sufficient wealth to fight a capitalist on a capitalists battle ground.

A rational socialism wouldn't completely strip the wealth and power from rich and powerful individuals, but it would weaken them sufficiently that they could no longer force their will on the masses.

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Vastet wrote:Since most or

Vastet wrote:

Since most or all social assistance programs do in fact require the recipient to work, or at least that they show they are attempting to find work or advancing their education, your question is invalid.

 

The reality is they only pay lip service to work/study requirements when the get into power. We wouldn't have such a high number of people in government assistance if what you claim were true. Isn't paying little or no taxes also a social assistance program?

Vastet wrote:

The dictionary definition hasn't changed significantly in at least 120 years so you're still lying.

 

Actually you are right. I've been calling them Socialists because that is what they call themselves. But I've been trying to point out that they are frauds. They don't really have any political philosophy except don't work and get the government to give them free stuff. I'll just call them Scammers That Call Themselves Socialists or STCTS for short.

Vastet wrote:

They aren't the ones throwing lies in my face, you are. 

WTF???? They completely misreprested the original meaning of your political philosophy by creating and supporting and entiltlement state. When I dis Socialism it is because that is what these people call themselves and then its implementation would just mean free stuff for themselves goes up along with my taxes. I'm sorry scammers hijacked your word, but that is no reason to get mad at me. I'm a victim too of their scam too if what you claim is true.

You have a marketing problem. You need tell people that Socialism would mean being forced to stop following your heart and to work in dirty and difficult jobs. Or make a new word.

Vastet wrote:

And I'm telling you I don't give a fuck because they aren't on my team.

Why don't you come up with a new word to describe what you believe, since 'Socialism' has been tainted to mean entitlements as a birthright? Then copyright the word so you can prevent entitlement scammers from

hijacking?

Vastet wrote:

If they choose not to so be it. If noone wants to help the person in a bad situation, too bad for them.

Now you are lying about my position.

If we let either charity or goverment take care of the poor, they will both be overwhelmed with too many people and not enough resourses to care for everyone. That is why mandatory birth control and strict immigration control are essential to any rational social contract. You can't overwhelm either charity or government with too many people in need, you can't overburden the environment with too many people.

I could support government intervention to help people short term if they were forced to work or study. But, I don't think it would be necessary since charity could handle these situations if we had rational population control.

 

Vastet wrote:

Yeah you demand that which already exists as well as a program that science has proved unnecessary and that almost noone would agree to.

Where is this science? It turned China from a starving nation into the worlds greatest ecomomic power. Extreme correlation between low population growth and quality of life in a society. What science could refute these facts?

Vastet wrote:

 Again, you're the one in my face lying. Not them. Bring one of them here and see what happens.

They are scam artists. You don't know how scam artists work? They tell you what you want to hear, not the truth. They all want free stuff for themselves and stick the bill to someone else. That is who the leftists and people that call themselves "Socialists" are. They stole your word just like they steal my income via taxation.

You bitch at me for telling you what I believe and they get a pass for saying how much they care about the downtrodden while they are only in it for free stuff for themselves.

They tell you how much they value public education. But then study some useless nonsense themselves.

Vastet wrote:

 How isn't it?

Can you be specific. If you want to outlaw some behavior of 'Capitalists', which ones are the worst offenders?

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:The reality is

EXC wrote:
The reality is they only pay lip service to work/study requirements when the get into power.

That's not reality. Because conservatives get elected and strip assistance down to the point it isn't even assistance and require you jump through hoops to get it anyway.

EXC wrote:
We wouldn't have such a high number of people in government assistance if what you claim were true.

Things are exactly as they would be if what I claimed was true. I was on assistance twice in my life. Neither time did I get a free ride. I had to take a few dozen courses, never mind that I'd already done the exact same ones the first time because there's no money to put towards a comprehensive education and training program for the poor so all the government can do is sign you up for the same shit over and over.
I also had to hand in a record of every job application and interview I had. If I wasn't applying to jobs I'd get kicked off.
All that and I still wasn't given enough to live on and had to find roommates just to afford rent.

Social assistance is a joke. I'll be concerned about lazy scumbags abusing it when and only when you can get enough from assistance to do absolutely nothing else and be ok. Right now, if all you have is assistance, you're about to be homeless. Which ironically results in losing half of what little assistance you get because you aren't required to pay rent when you're homeless.

EXC wrote:
Isn't paying little or no taxes also a social assistance program?

It isn't anymore than atheism is a belief in a religion.

EXC wrote:
Actually you are right. I've been calling them Socialists because that is what they call themselves. But I've been trying to point out that they are frauds. They don't really have any political philosophy except don't work and get the government to give them free stuff. I'll just call them Scammers That Call Themselves Socialists or STCTS for short.

ok, whatever works.

EXC wrote:
WTF???? They completely misreprested the original meaning of your political philosophy by creating and supporting and entiltlement state. When I dis Socialism it is because that is what these people call themselves and then its implementation would just mean free stuff for themselves goes up along with my taxes. I'm sorry scammers hijacked your word, but that is no reason to get mad at me. I'm a victim too of their scam too if what you claim is true.

Most of humanity is extremely stupid on every subject. I don't have the time or money to go out hunting down every idiot and educate them on everything. That's at least 6 billion people. I don't hunt down theists who are more dangerous than fake socialists and ignorant capitalists combined so why should I hunt down fake socialists? If I run into one or one comes to me I'll knock them down, just as I have with religious wackos. But I won't seek them out. There isn't enough time and I don't have infinite energy and resources.

EXC wrote:
You have a marketing problem. You need tell people that Socialism would mean being forced to stop following your heart and to work in dirty and difficult jobs. Or make a new word.
Why don't you come up with a new word to describe what you believe, since 'Socialism' has been tainted to mean entitlements as a birthright? Then copyright the word so you can prevent entitlement scammers from

hijacking?

As a socialist I don't have enough resources to run a marketing campaign or apply for patents, both of which I'm ethically opposed to anyway.
I could make up a word but only a few people would ever hear it in use so it wouldn't go anywhere. I'd be less effective than the left wing nutters who're trying to hijack English by making up new pronouns, and the very act of making up a word would put me even more squarely in the target sights of those who despise irrational socialism. You've accused me of supporting lefty retards and their 5000 fake pronouns just based on my support of socialism. If I start making words up too I'll never get past the opening arguments in any discussion.

EXC wrote:
Now you are lying about my position.

No I'm taking your anti-tax position to the logical conclusion. I admit I don't recall you explicitly stating that the poor should be left to rot in the streets, but without a tax system to fund assistance programs where do you get the resources to run assistance programs?

EXC wrote:
If we let either charity or goverment take care of the poor, they will both be overwhelmed with too many people and not enough resourses to care for everyone. That is why mandatory birth control and strict immigration control are essential to any rational social contract. You can't overwhelm either charity or government with too many people in need, you can't overburden the environment with too many people. I could support government intervention to help people short term if they were forced to work or study. But, I don't think it would be necessary since charity could handle these situations if we had rational population control.

If population numbers were an actual problem I'd agree with you, but they aren't. Both Canada and the US need immigration to pay for the pensions of the baby boomers. Either that or a drastic increase in tax that gets worse every year. Our populations are shrinking, which means tax income is sustained only by allowing for immigration which increases the taxes collected.

It is inherently unsustainable, eventually we will run out of room and environmental pressures will become too much. But that's the result of embracing a system that infinitely seeks infinite inflation. Capitalists say they want less immigration, but then they support a system that will collapse without immigration to pay for it. A shrinking population means a shrinking economy and less profits for corporations as their customers die off. No corporation wants that. Corporations want to expand and grow their profits. A CEO who presides over a drop in customers gets fired, even if the drop in customers is due to a drop in the population.

EXC wrote:
Where is this science? It turned China from a starving nation into the worlds greatest ecomomic power. Extreme correlation between low population growth and quality of life in a society. What science could refute these facts?

Why did China take so long then? There's been more than a billion Chinese my whole life, and until recently China had a one child policy my whole life, yet in the 80's and 90's China was nothing. Zimbabwe had a better economy in the 80's.
And now, because of the one child policy, China has a massive inbalance in gender. There's a good 33 million more boys than girls. Much of the current generation will never find a mate because under the one child policy the preferred gender was male as males are on average more productive economically. China had to drop the one child policy because it was going to destroy them.
China is smart though. They watch and learn. They know that an educated and comfortable population naturally has fewer children, so they are going all out on education and building cities to urbanize the rural population.

EXC wrote:
They are scam artists. You don't know how scam artists work? They tell you what you want to hear, not the truth. They all want free stuff for themselves and stick the bill to someone else. That is who the leftists and people that call themselves "Socialists" are. They stole your word just like they steal my income via taxation.

I'm well aware of how things got to where they are.

EXC wrote:
You bitch at me for telling you what I believe and they get a pass for saying how much they care about the downtrodden while they are only in it for free stuff for themselves.

You are here and you are presenting their arguments to me as a baseline for refutation of my arguments. I won't stand in your way of shitting on the idiots on the left, but as by FAR the most prolific socialist on this site throughout this site's entire existence, I am the one you attack when you criticise socialism here.

The only full retard lefty here is Brian37, and I've spent at least as much time smacking him down as I have you. Worse, Brian37 doesn't even respond to you except to give you an opening to rip him apart, so there's never been a discussion between you. You say something, Brian37 flies off the handle at something else, you respond in kind, and it's over until next month because Brian37 is stupid and lazy on an unmatched level. I may have called you the dumbest human to ever live, but Brian37 is too stupid to even qualify as human.

So every time you criticise socialism you are promoting the bullshit caricature of socialism created by insane lefties and ignorant righties who never bothered to spend 2 seconds thinking about their positions. Which means I not only have to challenge you based on your use of the term but also your arguments against socialism whether or not they apply to real socialism.

If you put in just a little effort to clarify you are attacking irrational idiots I'd be able to ignore you or even join you in common cause. But too often you attack health care as if it were an unsustainable pillar of socialism when it is perfectly sustainable even in a capitalist society. Or you attack taxes without anything to replace the income that government needs to run social and environmental programs and enforce law. When I attack taxes, which is rare but does happen, I have a system to replace it. Your argument has always been it'll take care of itself.

EXC wrote:
They tell you how much they value public education. But then study some useless nonsense themselves.

It is often true. The loudest people on the left and the right are almost exclusively idiots with no education, or at least no useful education.

EXC wrote:
Can you be specific. If you want to outlaw some behavior of 'Capitalists', which ones are the worst offenders?

A minimum/maximum income for individuals and the dismantlement of the concept that a non-individual (corporation) is an individual would take care of most of the issues very quickly. Of course that alone wouldn't fix anything if idiots were in power and mismanaged the scenario. But if implemented properly the gains to the nation as a whole are impossible to quantify they are so great. Even limiting net personal income to 10 million per year would put billions into government coffers and increase quality of life across the board, while still allowing for people to own their own skyscrapers and jets.

This is an extremely simplistic explanation. In order to make it actually functional and sustainable there would need to be a lot of changes made. From government to education to democracy itself. But the core concepts are simple enough.

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Vastet wrote:I was on

Vastet wrote:
I was on assistance twice in my life. Neither time did I get a free ride. I had to take a few dozen courses, never mind that I'd already done the exact same ones the first time because there's no money to put towards a comprehensive education and training program for the poor so all the government can do is sign you up for the same shit over and over.

So the education system failed the first time in educating you as as child, yet the union teachers and administrators got to keep their jobs, pensions, etc... True?

The welfare system should have forced you into work/study camps, where your behavior is monitored 24/7. Think military boot camps. But they failed you again with just a requirement to take worthless classes. You could still do drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, junk food or impregnate women. You weren't forced into something like nursing or home construction, which is why Canada has a nursing shortage crisis and affordable housing crisis.

Vastet wrote:

All that and I still wasn't given enough to live on and had to find roommates just to afford rent. Social assistance is a joke.

Too many people looking for work, too many people in need of housing. TMFP. Yet the insane leftist insist on massive immigrtation which only benefits big business and landlords.

Vastet wrote:

 

 As a socialist I don't have enough resources to run a marketing campaign

Hell, even the Nazis hijacked the word. You would think that would be enough to make someone realize you need a new word.

Your "Socialism" may work in an ideal world, one not full of scammers. But there is the problem, you want so much money and power to flow to government. So guess what? That is were the scammers go. If government didn't collect so much tax money, the scammers would stay away because there was no free and easy money. Wealth and power needs to stay with the individuals. Individuals need to be educated that most things are a scam.

 

Vastet wrote:

Both Canada and the US need immigration to pay for the pensions of the baby boomers.

Yes, Ponizi schemes always need new suckers. Desperately poor people from overpopulated third world shitholes make a good suckers. What happened to all the money paid into pension funds? Stolen.

And massive immigration also created the homeless and affordable housing crisis. There is no free lunch.

Vastet wrote:

 And now, because of the one child policy, China has a massive inbalance in gender. There's a good 33 million more boys than girls.

They should have banned gender based abortions.This problem is not a reason to deny that a lower birth rate greatly improved quality of life.

Vastet wrote:

Or you attack taxes without anything to replace the income that government needs to run social and environmental programs and enforce law.

You don't need social programs, you just need to force people to work or study something useful. Not allow people to have children they can't take care of.

People that use the environment should pay a user fee to cover costs. Don't stress the eviroment with too many people.

People that break the law should be the ones to pay for law enforcement. Prisions should make money for the goverment, not cost money.

You've totally fallen for the scam of taxation.

Vastet wrote:

A minimum/maximum income for individuals.

Yes make it impossible for low skill people to find work. Just raise my taxes to take care of them.

Jeff Bezos would have stopped expanding Amazon beyond just selling books(no incentive). Do you have a job for all the people working for Amazon or marketing their products through Amazon? They all just go on public assistance as well?

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:So the education

EXC wrote:
So the education system failed the first time in educating you as as child, yet the union teachers and administrators got to keep their jobs, pensions, etc... True?

That's a far more complicated question than you make it seem. Is Canada's education system perfect? No. Did some people fail to do their jobs? Yes. Did some get away with it? Sure. Were any punished? Yes. Did I have a role? Yes. Who made the education system? Capitalists.

EXC wrote:
The welfare system should have forced you into work/study camps, where your behavior is monitored 24/7. Think military boot camps.

Sounds remarkably socialist. I semi-agree, though I'd cut out the middle man and put everyone into the military.

EXC wrote:
But they failed you again with just a requirement to take worthless classes.

They don't have sufficient resources to do anything but fail because right wingers refuse to allow a social safety net to exist.

EXC wrote:
You could still do drugs, alcohol, cigarettes, junk food or impregnate women. You weren't forced into something like nursing or home construction, which is why Canada has a nursing shortage crisis and affordable housing crisis.

That isn't why Canada's facing any issues. There's a shortage of nurses because it's a shit job with low pay and long hours. Because while health care is a right, the government doesn't micromanage it. The government pays for shit and that's it. Hospitals are still run via capitalism, complete with CEOs.
There's a housing shortage not because of a lack of workers but because of skyrocketing rent due to greedy rich people who hoard wealth and don't invest.
Capitalism is directly responsible for both issues.

EXC wrote:
Too many people looking for work, too many people in need of housing. TMFP. Yet the insane leftist insist on massive immigrtation which only benefits big business and landlords.

That's not true. The truth is that too many rich people are running businesses that don't have enough employees to artificially drive up the unemployment rate. A train crash cataclysm a few years ago was the result of a company that had only one safety inspector for an oil shipment. There had been 3 safety inspectors previously, but to make more profits a new CEO eliminated two of those positions. Then the train exploded and nearly wiped out a whole town. The CEO had done this before, with similar results. He's doing it again now, because capitalism protects him from consequences.
That exact same scenario repeats everywhere that capitalism dominates. In every line of work. Companies choose to eliminate jobs in order to make more money without any care for the consequences. Those consequences are higher unemployment, lower wages, higher housing costs, and homelessness. Not to mention frequent disasters.

EXC wrote:
Hell, even the Nazis hijacked the word. You would think that would be enough to make someone realize you need a new word. Your Socialism may work in an ideal world, one not full of scammers.

My socialism would work in any world because scam artists would have nothing to work with.

EXC wrote:
But there is the problem, you want so much money and power to flow to government. So guess what? That is were the scammers go.

You are confusing capitalist democracy with socialist democracy. The government has insufficient power to draw scam artists in socialism.

EXC wrote:
If government didn't collect so much tax money, the scammers would stay away because there was no free and easy money. Wealth and power needs to stay with the individuals. Individuals need to be educated that most things are a scam.

Good luck with that. You'll never get such an education system when scam artist capitalists control the education system. Only socialism can keep scam artists at bay and form a sufficient education system.

EXC wrote:
Yes, Ponizi schemes always need new suckers. Desperately poor people from overpopulated third world shitholes make a good suckers. What happened to all the money paid into pension funds? Stolen.

By capitalists.

EXC wrote:
And massive immigration also created the homeless and affordable housing crisis.

No hoarding capitalists who for decades fought to prevent increases in wages while other hoarding capitalists who fought for unlimited power of rent control did that.

EXC wrote:
They should have banned gender based abortions.This problem is not a reason to deny that a lower birth rate greatly improved quality of life.

Yes it is, because that's exactly what the result was: a lower quality of life. 30 million people now will never have what their parents had. Every time a government tries to force people not to do something they want to do it fails. Every Single Time. Ban drugs, abortions, or jumping off bridges. It doesn't matter, people will do it anyway. Even an authoritarian government like China's can't prevent it.

EXC wrote:
You don't need social programs, you just need to force people to work or study something useful.

How are you going to do that with no money for education and no money to force people to work?

EXC wrote:
Not allow people to have children they can't take care of.

The vast majority take care of their kids no problem. Your repeated assertions to the contrary are fantasy unsupported by any facts.

EXC wrote:
People that use the environment should pay a user fee to cover costs. Don't stress the eviroment with too many people.

To who? Enforced by who? You have all these grand notions and no money to pay for any of it.

EXC wrote:
People that break the law should be the ones to pay for law enforcement.

Yeah cause criminals are going to volunteer to pay for the privilege of being arrested. Not. You don't have a justice system because you have no money to pay for it.

EXC wrote:
Prisions should make money for the goverment, not cost money.

In America that is the strategy. America has the highest crime rate in the world. Clearly that strategy doesn't work when the only country to use the strategy also throws people in jail at a higher rate than any other country.

EXC wrote:
You've totally fallen for the scam of taxation.

You're a scam artist who's strategy is to scam people while claiming it's the other guy who's scamming. You have no alternative to taxes, just fantasies where criminals voluntarily punish themselves.

EXC wrote:
Yes make it impossible for low skill people to find work. Just raise my taxes to take care of them.

Maximum and minimum wages would reduce unemployment not increase it.

EXC wrote:
Jeff Bezos would have stopped expanding Amazon beyond just selling books(no incentive).

That's a capitalist lie. There has never been any evidence that 100 billion is more incentive than 1 billion. When CEO wages were comparable to worker wages industry and commerce didn't suddenly stop. And who cares if he wouldn't have expanded Amazon? That leaves room for someone else to fill the gap. Suddenly you have 2 millionaires instead of 1. Socialism 2, Capitalism 1. Socialism wins.

EXC wrote:
Do you have a job for all the people working for Amazon or marketing their products through Amazon? They all just go on public assistance as well?

I have jobs for everyone. The military.

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Vastet wrote:Who made the

Vastet wrote:

Who made the education system? Capitalists.

The people involved in the education system are given a monopoly and not paid based upon results, but paid to babysit. Same as teachers unions. Goverment in any system has to be the referee and punish bad behavior. They are clearly are not doing that job. But the products of our education system still go out and for D or R, so the system is never reformed. There would have to be a political party based upon rationality that could somehow get people to vote for it. Perhaps it is impossible given the greedy interests on both political sides.

Your welfare programs failed you because it is designed to get you to vote a certain way through dependence on government, not make you self-sufficient.

Vastet wrote:

They don't have sufficient resources to do anything but fail because right wingers refuse to allow a social safety net to exist.

The right wingers rightly believe that a social safety net is an entitlement program. Present it as a rational social contract and you would get  a lot of support. Many right wingers would be in favor of short term help if it means no more shortages of doctors, nurses and housing.

Vastet wrote:

There's a shortage of nurses because it's a shit job with low pay and long hours. Because while health care is a right,

You force people in need of government assistance to do the shit part of the job, so goverment assistance pays for itself. The people on welfare and in prision are a labor pool, they should cost us nothing. Health Care should not be a right. If one refuses to work or study, one should not get it.

Vastet wrote:

There's a housing shortage not because of a lack of workers but because of skyrocketing rent due to greedy rich people who hoard wealth and don't invest.

If Capitalist are so greedy, why don't they take advantage of housing shortage and build more houses and charge high rents/mortgages? The problem is land shortage and lack of workers willing and able to do the work. This would eventually be fixed with mandatory birth control, mandatory education in construction. One problem is that the rich buy up all the land and get politicians to zone the land to please donors.

Vastet wrote:

 There had been 3 safety inspectors previously, but to make more profits a new CEO eliminated two of those positions. Then the train exploded and nearly wiped out a whole town. The CEO had done this before, with similar results. He's doing it again now, because capitalism protects him from consequences.

Isn't it the judicial system keeping him out of jail? There is no accountability for judges, no justice unless one is rich. The use of paid lawyers should be banned. There should be no special justice because one is rich. But neither political party wants to reform the system for equal justice. It is a failure of goverment not Capitalism.

Vastet wrote:

Only socialism can keep scam artists at bay .

WTF???????? You can't even keep scammers from highjack the meaning of the word.

Vastet wrote:

 

Vastet wrote:

Every time a government tries to force people not to do something they want to do it fails.

I want to not pay taxes, but I'm forced to do it. I want to drive like I'm on the Autobahn, I can't. The problem is it is not a priority. The don't force people off drugs and into work/study camps because they can buy votes with entitlements.

 

Vastet wrote:

 How are you going to do that with no money for education and no money to force people to work?

Why is there a net cost in forcing people to work? The wealth they create pays for whatever administration costs. Education can largely be done by computers and internships, not unions that demand massive funding. Parents should pay for there minor children's education or not be allowed to have them if they can't or won't.

Vastet wrote:

The vast majority take care of their kids no problem. Your repeated assertions to the contrary are fantasy unsupported by any facts.

Then why am I being asked to pay for their children's education, school lunch programs, welfare programs, etc...? Why do the get a tax break for having many kids?

Vastet wrote:

To who? Enforced by who? You have all these grand notions and no money to pay for any of it.

If one is involved in a business like oil drilling that needs to be highly regulated, then you have to pay a fee to cover the costs of environmental law enforcement and a fee to use the natural resouce. The current system where I pay sucks and is unsustainable.

Vastet wrote:

 Yeah cause criminals are going to volunteer to pay for the privilege of being arrested. Not. You don't have a justice system because you have no money to pay for it.

Convicted criminals are a free source of labor. They should be out picking fruit, not illegal immigrants. Jail sentences should not be based on time served playing games and watching TV, but in hours worked or studies.

The judicial system costs about 100x more than it should. Why? Because it makes more billable hours for lawyers. It is deliberatly make complex and inaccessable to make money for lawyers, judges, etc...

Nothing changes until people like you stop falling for all the scams that are out there and the big lie of taxation.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:The people

EXC wrote:
The people involved in the education system are given a monopoly and not paid based upon results, but paid to babysit.

That's a lie. In both Canada and the US the education system is pure democratic capitalism. School districts compete against school districts for resources, students, administrators, and teachers. Elections in the education system are less monopolistic than even your government, as there are infinite parties represented as opposed to two. In every possible way your understanding of the education system is a fantasy.

EXC wrote:
Same as teachers unions.

Teachers unions are the only reason teachers aren't slaves in America.

EXC wrote:
Goverment in any system has to be the referee and punish bad behavior. They are clearly are not doing that job.

They have no motivation to. Both parties depend on the ignorance of your population to exist, so educating the population is not valuable to them. Neither of your political parties sees any threat but the other. Most or all of your politicians, like most Americans, believe the US is SOOO powerful that NOTHING can challenge it.

The common people think the military has lasers that can shoot down any nuke. lol. We can only hope they never find out how wrong they are.

The politicians have a much more realistic grasp on the situation but they are just as biased against the idea that America is anything but an absolutely necessary component of peace and freedom in the world who cannot be challenged by anyone. They aren't wrong because they know why America has such power. But that power is not a power that cannot be stripped away. Most of the world has voluntarily chosen to give the US that power. But nowhere in the world is anyone absolutely committed to that voluntary gift of power. It can be taken away and given to someone else, and none of your politicians believe that is possible.

As a result, they bicker over the power given to America. Their sole concern is beating the only opponent (they think) who can take it away: the opposition. It has been turned into a sporting event. They are two groups of lawyers who were pushed into a gold mine of wealth and power they weren't prepared for by rich individuals who agreed to finance them in exchange for favours. In that particular regard Trump is the most interesting president America has ever had. He's beholden to noone but himself and his own addiction to power and wealth. Finally capitalism has pushed so far that the rich can take direct control, they don't need puppets anymore.

The rich only want more wealth and power, they care nothing about educating the masses. To the contrary, an educated public equates to more competition. More people who want what the rich have and can get it. Which means the rich are at higher risk of being overtaken. The rich want an ueducated population where only the rich are entitled to a good education, that way the rich stay rich and get richer. They get to give the public less and less until they overstep and the public rises up to kill them, as has happened time and again throughout capitalist history.

EXC wrote:
But the products of our education system still go out and for D or R, so the system is never reformed.

lol are you really so dense as to miss the part where that's exactly what the two parties want?

EXC wrote:
There would have to be a political party based upon rationality that could somehow get people to vote for it. Perhaps it is impossible given the greedy interests on both political sides.

History shows the people and the system can take only so much before it devolves into chaos and war. Vote Bernie Sanders and hope he's telling the truth because that's Americas only hope.

EXC wrote:
Your welfare programs failed you because it is designed to get you to vote a certain way through dependence on government, not make you self-sufficient.

Wrong. Welfare doesn't provide enough income because one of our major parties does everything it can to reduce or eliminate social programs whenever it is in power.

EXC wrote:
The right wingers rightly believe that a social safety net is an entitlement program. Present it as a rational social contract and you would get a lot of support.

Wrong, because a social safety net has been scientifically proven as beneficial to everyone, including the rich. Right wingers simply embrace ideology over reality.

EXC wrote:
Many right wingers would be in favor of short term help if it means no more shortages of doctors, nurses and housing.

No they wouldn't. Right wingers want shortages because it drives inflation.

EXC wrote:
You force people in need of government assistance to do the shit part of the job, so goverment assistance pays for itself.

If all parties could agree to setting up a safety net then they could stabalize it and permanently tie it to other activities. But when 3 different parties have three mutually exclusive ideas on whether there should be a net and what a net should be then you get an inefficient and ineffective yoyo. The conservatives are the only party that explicitly shuts down any public program they can, but the liberals and new democrats don't agree on what a net should be either.

EXC wrote:
The people on welfare and in prision are a labor pool, they should cost us nothing.

That isn't possible even (perhaps especially) in the US where you have a massive prison population. Labour is ever in diminishing demand. If you use prison labour to replace real jobs you'll throw millions of people out of work which will increase crime and skyrocket your already ridiculously huge prison population.

EXC wrote:
Health Care should not be a right.

Yes it should.

EXC wrote:
If one refuses to work or study, one should not get it.

If one refuses to work or study they should be exiled or imprisoned. If they are exiled they get no health care so no problem. If they are imprisoned then they should get health care because a healthy worker is an effective worker, and unhealthy individuals cost the country a lot more than healthy individuals.

EXC wrote:
If Capitalist are so greedy, why don't they take advantage of housing shortage and build more houses and charge high rents/mortgages?

That's exactly what they've been doing for decades. Pay attention. More housing with unaffordable rent doesn't drive down housing costs. It increases housing costs.

EXC wrote:
The problem is land shortage and lack of workers willing and able to do the work.

There's no land shortage. If there's a lack of able workers you can blame the parties for inadequately funding the education system. If there's a lack of willing workers you can turn to immigration and toss the deadbeats out.

EXC wrote:
This would eventually be fixed with mandatory birth control,

You keep going on about a policy that isn't necessary, would never be accepted, and would never accomplish anything.

EXC wrote:
mandatory education in construction.

You think in such one dimensional terms. If everyone can be a construction worker then there's no demand for construction workers and wages fall off the map.

EXC wrote:
One problem is that the rich buy up all the land and get politicians to zone the land to please donors.

That is a problem, but nothing you've suggested would address it.

EXC wrote:
Isn't it the judicial system keeping him out of jail?

No it's politicians who allow corporations to be viewed as individuals and thusly shelter administrators from criminal liability. The company was charged, but the company went bankrupt and no longer exists. Management walked away scott free.

EXC wrote:
There is no accountability for judges, no justice unless one is rich.

A judge is absolutely required to follow the law as set by politicians and a constitution, if any. A judge can't convict a ceo when the law says a ceo isn't liable.

EXC wrote:
The use of paid lawyers should be banned. There should be no special justice because one is rich.

I agree.

EXC wrote:
But neither political party wants to reform the system for equal justice. It is a failure of goverment not Capitalism.

The government is capitalist. The policies are capitalist. The fault is capitalism.

EXC wrote:
WTF???????? You can't even keep scammers from highjack the meaning of the word.

In a capitalist society you can't stop scammers from scamming anything.

EXC wrote:
I want to not pay taxes, but I'm forced to do it. I want to drive like I'm on the Autobahn, I can't.

You can get away with not paying taxes and you can drive as fast as you like. Just work harder so you can afford it. Is Trump smarter than you? He figured out how to do it.

EXC wrote:
The problem is it is not a priority. The don't force people off drugs and into work/study camps because they can buy votes with entitlements.

Capitalism is buying votes. In socialism you have to earn them.

EXC wrote:
Why is there a net cost in forcing people to work?

Because you're using force. Force is expensive.

EXC wrote:
The wealth they create pays for whatever administration costs.

No because capitalists are hoarding the wealth to themselves. And capitalists aren't going to voluntarily hand their assets over to the government so the government can train possible competitors.

EXC wrote:
Education can largely be done by computers and internships, not unions that demand massive funding.

Unions don't run the education system, unions protect teachers from unwarranted dismissal and allow teachers the power to bargain for fair wages. Unions are absolutely necessary for a stable capitalism just as a social safety net and healthcare is.

EXC wrote:
Parents should pay for there minor children's education or not be allowed to have them if they can't or won't.

As those children will inevitably pay taxes, it is in the peoples interest to ensure all children get an education sufficient to let them be productive members of society. You have to pay for them one way or another, you might as well invest in them so they can pay you back.

EXC wrote:
Then why am I being asked to pay for their children's education, school lunch programs, welfare programs, etc...?

Because it's in your own interest to do so. As per above.

EXC wrote:
Why do the get a tax break for having many kids?

That I completely agree with you on. There is no justification for a tax break just because you got married or had kids.

EXC wrote:
If one is involved in a business like oil drilling that needs to be highly regulated, then you have to pay a fee to cover the costs of environmental law enforcement and a fee to use the natural resouce. The current system where I pay sucks and is unsustainable.

Quite the opposite, it is the only sustainable way to drill oil. Without regulations, oil companies have less than 0 motivation to run a sustainable industry that doesn't destroy the environment. As has been proved repeatedly. Saving the environment from the impact of your activities costs money. If companies could boost profits by ending all environmental protection requirements they wouldn't hesitate.

EXC wrote:
Convicted criminals are a free source of labor.

No they aren't. You need a justice system to convict them, police to arrest them, and guards to contain them. All of which costs money. And prisoners aren't going to voluntarily foot the bill. Most prisoners don't have the money to even if they could be forced.

If you're going to make them work then you also need educators to train them or the work they do will not be of any quality worth mentioning. And if you flood the jobs market with tens of millions of slave labourers then you destroy real jobs which increases the unemployment and crime rates.

EXC wrote:
They should be out picking fruit, not illegal immigrants.

So now you also need inspectors to ensure the prisoners aren't tampering with the food they produce. Congratulations you made farming more expensive than it has ever been in all of history. And you've shut down immigration so the population will begin to shrink, which means you've destroyed retirement because there isn't enough income to pay out pensions. And you've increased costs in the health industry because even poor and homeless people have to be accounted for when they die, not to mention they'll get sick more often which will spread more easily among the overall population which will cost everyone more money.

EXC wrote:
Jail sentences should not be based on time served playing games and watching TV, but in hours worked or studies. The judicial system costs about 100x more than it should. Why? Because it makes more billable hours for lawyers. It is deliberatly make complex and inaccessable to make money for lawyers, judges, etc... Nothing changes until people like you stop falling for all the scams that are out there and the big lie of taxation.

I have demonstrated repeatedly that you are the one falling for a scam. You have absolutely no idea how supply and demand works. You have absolutely no idea how capitalism or socialism works. You have absolutely no idea how taxes work. And you have absolutely no resources to pay for your pipe dreams. Worse, YOU are on the side that claims they want prisoners to work yet shut down any actual work for prisoners. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/save-our-farms-final-vigil-1.4789477

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Vastet wrote:There's no land

Vastet wrote:

There's no land shortage. If there's a lack of able workers you can blame the parties for inadequately funding the education system.

The home builders don't build because there is no land zoned for affordable housing. Huge homes for the rich are being built because land is zoned for them this way. Cities like expensive, low density housing because it brings in a lot of taxes and requires little services.

Education is failing because we don't pay for results. If we had a free market in education, no one gets paid unless goals are achieved. A government run monopoly can fail badly and still get funded to continue thanks to taxation.

 

Vastet wrote:

No they aren't. You need a justice system to convict them, police to arrest them, and guards to contain them. All of which costs money. And prisoners aren't going to voluntarily foot the bill. Most prisoners don't have the money to even if they could be forced.

When you were on public assistance, why couldn't you have been trained to be an auxillary police officer, thus reducing the need for expensive regular police?

The police exist to protect the elites and the tax slave society. If you had citizen police, you would have police that acutally protect everyone.

The court system exists to give wealth to lawyers and judges, not give justice to all.

The education system exists to give jobs to teachers and administrators that could not make it in the competitive free market. And to maintain a tax slave labor pool that is indoctrinated with political propaganda like taxes are essential.

If prisoners never get out of jail unless they pay their debt to society, nearly all of them will work so long as jail is not comfortable. And educating them now costs nearly nothing thanks to computers. How can there be prision overcrowding when you have a free labor pool to build more jails? Cause the current system is a total scam.

The story of your enslavement

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:The home builders

EXC wrote:
The home builders don't build because there is no land zoned for affordable housing.

Wrong. All land zoned for residential can have affordable housing built on it. Most land owners choose to build unaffordable housing.

EXC wrote:
Huge homes for the rich are being built because land is zoned for them this way.

No, land is zoned for industrial residential or commercial. Land owners make the decision as to what kind of industrial residential or commercial they build. You're blaming the government for something it has no choice in.

EXC wrote:
Cities like expensive, low density housing because it brings in a lot of taxes and requires little services.

No cities want high density buildings, as demonstrated by the fact only cities have apartments in skyscrapers.

EXC wrote:
Education is failing because we don't pay for results.

No education is failing because the rich want it to fail.

EXC wrote:
If we had a free market in education, no one gets paid unless goals are achieved.

You have a free market that's why it's failing. Also, noone is going to do a multi-year job without getting paid until it's over.

EXC wrote:
A government run monopoly can fail badly and still get funded to continue thanks to taxation.

No evidence supporting that exists.

EXC wrote:
When you were on public assistance, why couldn't you have been trained to be an auxillary police officer, thus reducing the need for expensive regular police?

Because right wingers don't want an educated and productive work force so they cut education and they cut social assistance and they cut scientific programs. Everything remotely socialist right wingers attempt to destroy in their ignorance of the superiority of socialism.

EXC wrote:
The police exist to protect the elites and the tax slave society. If you had citizen police, you would have police that acutally protect everyone.

The police exist to keep order and obey the people. If, as in the US, they don't have to obey the people but only the rich, then that's what will happen. But that's special to America.

EXC wrote:
The court system exists to give wealth to lawyers and judges, not give justice to all.

No that's what America has turned the justice system into, but it's not too late to go socialist and turn the justice system back onto the correct road.

EXC wrote:
The education system exists to give jobs to teachers and administrators that could not make it in the competitive free market.

A blatant lie. Teachers provide an essential service and get paid slave wages for it.

EXC wrote:
And to maintain a tax slave labor pool that is indoctrinated with political propaganda like taxes are essential.

The only indoctrination is the one you fell for that ignores the necessity of taxes.

EXC wrote:
If prisoners never get out of jail unless they pay their debt to society, nearly all of them will work so long as jail is not comfortable.

Lies. There aren't enough jobs. You'll increase the prison population because noone hires criminals. And if American prison is so comfortable why don't you go there?

EXC wrote:
And educating them now costs nearly nothing thanks to computers.

Lies. If computers could replace people as trainers then companies would be jumping all over it. The fact that no company or government on the entire planet trusts a computer to conduct training proves this is another fantasy of yours. You watch too much sci fi.

EXC wrote:
How can there be prision overcrowding when you have a free labor pool to build more jails?

I already demonstrated you don't have a free labour pool and if you're so stupid as to let prisoners build their own jails you won't have any prisoners.

EXC wrote:
Cause the current system is a total scam.

No you are a scam.

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Vastet wrote:All land zoned

Vastet wrote:

All land zoned for residential can have affordable housing built on it. Most land owners choose to build unaffordable housing.

The only way in cities to build affordable housing is build up. All kinds or restrictions to do this. The dirty secret is cities don't really want low income people moving in that pay little in taxes and demand massive services, evn ';progrssive' cities like San Francisco and Tornoto.

Vastet wrote:

Teachers provide an essential service and get paid slave wages for it.

Yes indoctrination that we need to be totally dependent on government, we need to be slaves to corporations instead of business owners ourselves and most importantly tax slaves. They only work half the year and get all kinds of benefits. It is only a difficult job because students have no disipline thanks to so many people that have no business having any kids being allowed to have as many as they please.

Vastet wrote:

noone is going to do a multi-year job without getting paid until it's over.

That is why you need Capitalists to take the risk. They don't get paid unless they deliver. The current system of crony capitalism, they get paid reguardless of results. This is only possible because taxation is theft.

Vastet wrote:

Lies. There aren't enough jobs. You'll increase the prison population because noone hires criminals. 

But there is enough jobs to bring in massive numbers of immigrants??? Noone hires criminals because they are not taught to become workers in jail, then released only when they have a marketable job skill and work ethic. They are warehoused because taxes foot the bill. If prisions were revenue neutral, this problem would go away.

Vastet wrote:

If computers could replace people as trainers then companies would be jumping all over it. 

Some do. But a company in the competitive marketplace can't afford to pay to train people. Would you take your car to a mechanic that has to learn how to repair your car and he bills you while he is learning? Education can pay for itself if employers were forced to pay when they use a trained worker. This would be a user fee instead of taxation.

 

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:The only way in

EXC wrote:
The only way in cities to build affordable housing is build up. All kinds or restrictions to do this. The dirty secret is cities don't really want low income people moving in that pay little in taxes and demand massive services, evn ';progrssive' cities like San Francisco and Tornoto.

It isn't the cities that build high rent properties, it's the rich. Cities are run like corporations so of course they're willing to allow it to fill city coffers. Of course all of this is capitalism.

EXC wrote:
Yes indoctrination that we need to be totally dependent on government, we need to be slaves to corporations instead of business owners ourselves and most importantly tax slaves.

Teachers aren't government they're teachers. Do you deny kids need to learn math and science and language and history? Any indoctrination that takes place is capitalist America the empire indoctrination.

EXC wrote:
They only work half the year and get all kinds of benefits.

That's absolute horse shit. Teachers get two months out of the class, but most of them are either taking classes or teaching classes or preparing classes. They also work longer hours than most when they are in the regular school season.

EXC wrote:
It is only a difficult job because students have no disipline thanks to so many people that have no business having any kids being allowed to have as many as they please.

If it's such any easy job with so much pay and benefits why isn't everyone trying to be a teacher? Why is there a shortage and why have there been so many strikes and protests? The truth is you don't know shit about any part of the education system. A foreigner is schooling you on your own country.

EXC wrote:
That is why you need Capitalists to take the risk. They don't get paid unless they deliver.

Capitalists are so impatient to see where their figures are they need official updates 4 times a year. Education takes a decade. ROI takes at least 20 years. There isn't a capitalist anywhere who would sign on to that.

EXC wrote:
The current system of crony capitalism, they get paid reguardless of results. This is only possible because taxation is theft.

No this is possible because Americans don't pay attention to politics and let the rich seize control and the rich don't care about education for the public. The US school system used to be fully capable of educating the public enough for everyone to have a job, so the system that pays for education cannot be the problem. Those who manage it must be.

EXC wrote:

But there is enough jobs to bring in massive numbers of immigrants???

You have a lot more prisoners than immigrants.

EXC wrote:
Noone hires criminals because they are not taught to become workers in jail, then released only when they have a marketable job skill and work ethic.

No, noone hires criminals because noone trusts criminals. That they rarely learn useful skills in prison is part of the problem but it's the right wingers who do everything they can to continue using the justice system as a source of profit and do everything they can to ensure criminals remain criminals who are responsible for criminals not being rehabilitated.

EXC wrote:
They are warehoused because taxes foot the bill. If prisions were revenue neutral, this problem would go away.

You're a liar. Prisons in America are for profit systems not paid for by tax payers.

EXC wrote:
Some do.

None do. Not one company in the whole world ever has. You watch too much sci fi.

EXC wrote:
But a company in the competitive marketplace can't afford to pay to train people.

Bullshit. Every company trains workers, Not one company in history has decided workers don't need any training.

EXC wrote:
Would you take your car to a mechanic that has to learn how to repair your car and he bills you while he is learning?

No. I'd do it myself. Which is why companies train their workers. Even a mechanic who got a degree from a university will have training on company policies, safety, etc. Some jobs have training that takes a day, others have training that lasts weeks. But they all train.

EXC wrote:
Education can pay for itself if employers were forced to pay when they use a trained worker.

That's ridiculously stupid. All workers are trained.

EXC wrote:
This would be a user fee instead of taxation.

So you want all taxes to be business taxes. Like that'd help anything.

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Vastet wrote: Cities are

Vastet wrote:
 Cities are run like corporations so of course they're willing to allow it to fill city coffers. 
  So government officials and employees act just like Capitalists in being only self-serving. I'm not surprised given that there is no unselfish gene. People are always going to act in way that is self-serving, that is why your theory that Socialist party officials are going to act in the public interest is highly flawed. A political system needs to account for the reality that everyone is self-serving and that systems will be taken over by scammers, if possible. Theives would stop robbing banks if there is no cash in banks. As long as there is the stolen money from taxation laying around, the scammers will be buzzing around like vultures.  
Vastet wrote:
 Teachers aren't government they're teachers. Do you deny kids need to learn math and science and language and history?  
  So our education system is already privatized? Why should we give a private monopoly to teachers' unions? Students learn enough to be tax slaves. Never going to teach them how to be business owners and investors.  
Vastet wrote:
 If it's such any easy job with so much pay and benefits why isn't everyone trying to be a teacher?  
  Anyone that is good can see teaching in most public schoolss just glorified babysitting. It generally attracts the lazy. I would never consider thia as a carrer because administrations would be so opposed to teaching people to use computers to teach themselves. No extra incentive for being an effective teacher. Such a threat to the gravy train.  
Vastet wrote:
 You have a lot more prisoners than immigrants.  
  Wow are you totally clueless. 47 Million legal immigrants. 11 Million illegal immigrants. 2.2 Million incarcerated.  
Vastet wrote:
  Prisons in America are for profit systems not paid for by tax payers.  
 Clueless: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mass-incarceration-cost_us_57d82d99e4b09d7a687fde21  
Vastet wrote:
 So you want all taxes to be business taxes.  
  No. I want everything to be a user fee. What I want to eliminate are taxes that have nocorrelation to benefit(e.g. income tax) and monopolies where consumers have no alternative(teachers' unions).If you use a service or natural resourse(land), you pay. Dosen't matter if it is a business or individual. 

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:So government

EXC wrote:
So government officials and employees act just like Capitalists in being only self-serving.

I don't know why you're surprised capitalists would be capitalists.

EXC wrote:
I'm not surprised given that there is no unselfish gene.

That's you being a sociopath.

EXC wrote:
People are always going to act in way that is self-serving, that is why your theory that Socialist party officials are going to act in the public interest is highly flawed.

Wrong. In fact that is why only socialism can work.

EXC wrote:
A political system needs to account for the reality that everyone is self-serving and that systems will be taken over by scammers, if possible.

Only socialism can account for all realities and prevent scammers.

EXC wrote:
Theives would stop robbing banks if there is no cash in banks.

They'd just rob someone or something else.

EXC wrote:
As long as there is the stolen money from taxation laying around, the scammers will be buzzing around like vultures.

Taxes reverse the theft of money from the poor, taxes is the opposite of theft. Refusing to pay taxes is theft.

EXC wrote:
So our education system is already privatized? Why should we give a private monopoly to teachers' unions?

The very fact you have to use union in the plural proves there's no monopoly.

EXC wrote:
Students learn enough to be tax slaves.

A multi-lie.

EXC wrote:
Never going to teach them how to be business owners and investors.

Except they do so that's another lie.

EXC wrote:
Anyone that is good can see teaching in most public schoolss just glorified babysitting.

Anyone with functioning brain cells knows you're a chronic liar who doesn't know shit about education. And again, if it's so easy why isn't everyone doing it? According to your lies, anyone can get rich being a glorified baby-sitter, which is a hell of a lot better than living on welfare and takes no more effort. So why isn't everyone doing it?
It's because you're a liar. Teaching is one of the hardest jobs with long hours and shit pay and everyone except you knows it.

EXC wrote:
It generally attracts the lazy. I would never consider thia as a carrer because administrations would be so opposed to teaching people to use computers to teach themselves.

Because that's a fantasy that cannot work.

EXC wrote:
No extra incentive for being an effective teacher.

Bullshit if you're a really good teacher schools start fighting over you.

EXC wrote:
Wow are you totally clueless.

No, you are.

EXC wrote:
47 Million legal immigrants. 11 Million illegal immigrants.

Over like 50 years.

EXC wrote:
2.2 Million incarcerated.

Per year. Over the same time scale you used for immigration that works out to 110 million convicts. More than twice the immigrant count.

Clueless: https://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289

EXC wrote:
No. I want everything to be a user fee.

Taxes.

EXC wrote:
What I want to eliminate are taxes that have no correlation to benefit(e.g. income tax) and monopolies where consumers have no alternative(teachers' unions).

Nonsensical. Unions aren't monopolies and user fees are a joke that you can't collect because you don't have taxes to set it up or enforce it so noone has to pay.

EXC wrote:
If you use a service or natural resourse(land), you pay. Dosen't matter if it is a business or individual.

No you don't, because there's no money to enforce it and neither businesses nor individuals will volunteer to.

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 Your claim that there are

 Your claim that there are currently double the number people incarcerated in the US than immigrants just demonstrates you are clearly delusional. I'm basically debating a flat-earther.

There are 2.2 million people in the US currently in prision, 58 million immigrants. Beliveing that 1 in 3 Americans(110 million) is in jail is as delusional about reality as any religious belief. But this is what you get when country is taken over by SJWs, a political cult. Just follow your political indoctrination and remain in a bubble of leftist media. There is no point in being angry and calling you a liar. You're a victim living in the prision of the propaganda you believe instead of facts.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Your claim that my claim is

Your claim that my claim is incorrect is itself incorrect. You are the flat earther.

Believing that anything less than 1/3 of Americans have a record is as delusional as anything you've ever said. Almost as delusional as your claim that I claimed 110 million people are currently in prison. Which itself is as delusional as your claim that 58 million immigrants crossed the border this year.

Taxation is the price we pay for a functional society dominated by capitalism. That's a fact. Your fantasies have no bearing on reality.

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