Homicide

digitalbeachbum
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Homicide

I have looked around the web and found the answers I needed on a variety of websites but I thought I would ask here.

Is suicide a homicide?

Homicide is the killing of a person, but the origin of the word is "human killer".

Some articles say suicide is not murder, but in Psychology Today there was a study talking about how mentally, a person who kills their selves are not the same person.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/feeling-our-way/201510/suicide-form-homicide

law.com has this entry

https://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=881

Some states have it as a homicide, others do not.

 


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They're looking at the

They're looking at the subject with way too much bias towards institutionalized patient experiences. Not everyone who wants to end their pain can be relieved, by any measure. Not everyone who uses a gun is an executioner, many simply believe a gun will bring the quickest and least painful death or they don't have a good alternative. Not everyone fits the description of multiple personality disorder either.

It isn't even useful if it is accurate. It reads like philosophy, not science. Which is typical.

There are significant advantages in learning psychology, but the majority of conclusions range from speculation to opinion to ridiculous. Medicine is the least advanced and least scientific of all the sciences, and psychology is the least advanced and least scientific branch of medicine.

There is absolutely no useful information in this particular article. There is no medicine or treatment to deal with the concepts nor even any indication there could be. There is no value in considering suicide a homicide, it will simply punish people who are already punishing themselves.

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digitalbeachbum
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Vastet wrote:They're looking

Vastet wrote:
They're looking at the subject with way too much bias towards institutionalized patient experiences. Not everyone who wants to end their pain can be relieved, by any measure. Not everyone who uses a gun is an executioner, many simply believe a gun will bring the quickest and least painful death or they don't have a good alternative. Not everyone fits the description of multiple personality disorder either. It isn't even useful if it is accurate. It reads like philosophy, not science. Which is typical. There are significant advantages in learning psychology, but the majority of conclusions range from speculation to opinion to ridiculous. Medicine is the least advanced and least scientific of all the sciences, and psychology is the least advanced and least scientific branch of medicine. There is absolutely no useful information in this particular article. There is no medicine or treatment to deal with the concepts nor even any indication there could be. There is no value in considering suicide a homicide, it will simply punish people who are already punishing themselves.

I knew your response would be stimulating

I was attempting to label suicide. Many claim it isn't self murder, some say it is neither homicide or a crime

In the past, if you committed suicide, your property could be taken by the government

Now most states do not criminalize it


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I don't really see a point

I don't really see a point in defining suicide as anything except the choice to end oneself. An argument could be made that anyone committing suicide is killing billions of cells that aren't choosing to die, indeed which attempt to fight off death regardless of capability. But we can't afford to give individual cells in our bodies the right to overrule the collective emergent individual in politics or the courts.

I know that the article really hits the nail on the head for institutionalized individuals in general. There literally are extremely compelling urges to do things to oneself that some or most of the time aren't present, and an individual may attempt suicide despite 5 minutes before and after having absolutely no desire to, and being terrified of having experienced that moment when they were someone else. The ideas presented are a fairly compelling potential 'psyche' explanation for what is happening.

But explorations in determining how the mind works by analyzing the mind in such a vague and ethereal territory is never going to accomplish anything beneficial. Psychology needs to move completely from the ethereal to the physical before it will start being truly useful. We've studied the mind ethereally for at least a couple thousand years. It hasn't gotten us anywhere except the ability to define certain observed deviations from the defined norm. In some random cases we seem to have found treatments for some individuals that appear to make them more 'normal', but we don't really know why else we'd be able to treat all individuals.

Psychology needs a crossover with chemistry, evolutionary biology, and possibly quantum physics. We're at least a number of decades away from that, especially if people keep philosophizing the issues instead of applying science.

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Vastet wrote:I don't really

Vastet wrote:
I don't really see a point in defining suicide as anything except the choice to end oneself. An argument could be made that anyone committing suicide is killing billions of cells that aren't choosing to die, indeed which attempt to fight off death regardless of capability. But we can't afford to give individual cells in our bodies the right to overrule the collective emergent individual in politics or the courts. I know that the article really hits the nail on the head for institutionalized individuals in general. There literally are extremely compelling urges to do things to oneself that some or most of the time aren't present, and an individual may attempt suicide despite 5 minutes before and after having absolutely no desire to, and being terrified of having experienced that moment when they were someone else. The ideas presented are a fairly compelling potential 'psyche' explanation for what is happening. But explorations in determining how the mind works by analyzing the mind in such a vague and ethereal territory is never going to accomplish anything beneficial. Psychology needs to move completely from the ethereal to the physical before it will start being truly useful. We've studied the mind ethereally for at least a couple thousand years. It hasn't gotten us anywhere except the ability to define certain observed deviations from the defined norm. In some random cases we seem to have found treatments for some individuals that appear to make them more 'normal', but we don't really know why else we'd be able to treat all individuals. Psychology needs a crossover with chemistry, evolutionary biology, and possibly quantum physics. We're at least a number of decades away from that, especially if people keep philosophizing the issues instead of applying science.

I agree. If I were to compare the science and information we know about the brain and the human psyche it would be equal to our efforts in space travel.

I believe that suicide is a homicide just for labeling purposes. I know it isn't important, but from a statistical point of view when counting numbers, the information I have found shows it is so.

I believe that the human brain is merely a chemical generator which produces emotional side effects to physical experiences. If a person is depressed and wants to commit suicide it is because their mind is unable to cope with the chemical responses of the external experience. They need a way to end the experience and often they believe suicide is the quickest answer.

However I have experienced the ability to repeat a word over and over in my mind to train my brain to make specific connections, thus changing the chemical reaction to an experience.

No drugs needed. Just thinking specific words changes everything.

 


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For the purposes of society

For the purposes of society I would actually argue homicide is really suicide. The number of cases in which the death of an individual is beneficial to society in general is insignificant until you hit the age of retirement, and even then it is usually beneficial to preserve individuals until at least the time at which they become invalids and incapable of coherent communication. Even pure sociopaths are more valuable alive than dead, for varied reasons. It's just a matter of managing them effectively.

Not all cases of suicide attempts or successes can be seen as emotional or irrational. I could easily make a case for justifying suicide. I actually have a harder time justifying a case for not suicide on unemotional and rational terms. I can make arguments, but when I debate the two sides the only time I feel the not suicide side wins is when I bring in emotions or clear mental issues. If someone of sound mind wants to kill themselves I only have emotional arguments to pull them back.

It's not something I'm willing to do publically, I fear too much that I might actually convince someone who is or isn't of sound mind to go and do it.

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digitalbeachbum
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Vastet wrote:For the

Vastet wrote:
For the purposes of society I would actually argue homicide is really suicide. The number of cases in which the death of an individual is beneficial to society in general is insignificant until you hit the age of retirement, and even then it is usually beneficial to preserve individuals until at least the time at which they become invalids and incapable of coherent communication. Even pure sociopaths are more valuable alive than dead, for varied reasons. It's just a matter of managing them effectively. Not all cases of suicide attempts or successes can be seen as emotional or irrational. I could easily make a case for justifying suicide. I actually have a harder time justifying a case for not suicide on unemotional and rational terms. I can make arguments, but when I debate the two sides the only time I feel the not suicide side wins is when I bring in emotions or clear mental issues. If someone of sound mind wants to kill themselves I only have emotional arguments to pull them back. It's not something I'm willing to do publically, I fear too much that I might actually convince someone who is or isn't of sound mind to go and do it.

I can go either way. People who are young and healthy should stay alive. Like that lady who killed herself recently. She was middle aged but obviously sick mentally. However she could have contributed to society in a positive way. She had money, billions, which could have been used to help people.

Then you have people with cancer, stage 4, who should have the right to take their life. Who wants to live in a situation where you have to take chemo and suffer? I'd rather take my own life on my own terms