If the Democratic Convention fixed what happened. #FeeltheBern

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If the Democratic Convention fixed what happened. #FeeltheBern

Rachel Maddow: It seems like there's nothing they[DNC] can say to calm the Bernie supporters down.

DNC with heads out of assholes could've fixed this by saying:
"We are inspired by recent actions of Bernie Sanders. While he has hundreds of thousands of people fighting for him to be their nominee he is begging his supporters for unity behind Hillary. He believes that as a society, our primary goal should be to make sure Donald Trump is not going to be our President. And while he could just as easily be fighting for his place on the ticket by lobbying superdelegates he's become a supporter of Hillary even though he doesn't completely share her vision. He is an inspiration to us all as he shows us the most important issue for our planet today is ensuring that a psychotic ego maniacal self absorbed thin skinned sociopath never has the power to launch a nuclear weapon.


As a result, we recognize that Hillary isn't the best candidate to beat Donald Trump. We see that she is now behind in the polls by 4 points and that an overwhelming majority of America doesn't trust her. We are now asking all of the super delegates to set aside their long standing alliance with Hillary Clinton that virtually ensured her as the democratic candidate before the primary started. We are asking all states in which delegates are allowed to vote their conscience and recognize that Hillary will get beat by Donald Trump to vote for Bernie. We apologize deeply that the deck was stacked against Bernie through super delegates and corrupt DNC leadership that committed fraud against Bernie's supporters. This was a grave mistake that will destroy our party unless we can prove to America that we truly put the citizens of this country first.


We refuse to continue the years of cronyism. We applaud Bernie for not being beholden to special interests like Hillary and most of us for that matter. We applaud Bernie for placing the 99% first and recognize he will fight for America as a whole better than Hillary. And with that said, I would like to introduce Hillary Clinton who will come out to apologize for lying to you about her emails in order to pull the wool over your eyes to steal the nomination. Hillary is inspired by Bernie and recognizes that he has an abundantly better chance of beating Trump. And since she truly does care about America and the world more than her own political aims, she has decided to do the right thing. Please welcome Hillary Clinton..."

 

Special bonus points if they stated they also give in considering they've displayed their incompentence by not having the author of "Art of the Deai" in a major speaking point to explain why with 18 months of first hand knowledge of Donald Trump he believes Donald as President will be the end of civilization.  

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Old Seer
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"Stole it---stole it?

Vastet wrote:
My methods would do all of that. Elimination of private commerce into a public/social system would be a deathblow to the rich. There'd never be a millionaire again. Noone in all of history has ever earned that kind of money & power. They stole it or were given it, they never earned it. As for being poor, that would be a choice.

Of course they stole it. This shows how stupid you are . You can do the same thing. Take your billions and create a bank---so you can rob it later. And, the US of A Government will help you. They'll make your robbery perfectly legal by not being able to prove anything or find any evidence or witnesses. It just takes a little under the table money,  called "palm grease" (google it) . Get smart Vastet, and after you"stole" all that money (which you really didn't need anyway) from millions of poor floks world wide---the president of the US of A will appoint you and one of your comrades Secretary of the US of A Treasury.  (Secret-ary- is eggszackle right-right, got it    winlk wink). I'm not as dumb as you becasue I'm working hard to come up with my billions so I can do the same thing, and not just sitting around and complaining. I'm doing something about it. I recommend it for everyone. So, Get off your ass and get busy, there's millions of floks in the world that are prime for the taking---if you know how to do it. It may take me a while but by God I'm gonna make it. Ahhhh just think of it, I'll die someday with billions in the bank, even trillions maybe. As the saying is--he who dies with the most toys wins---right. So wise up.You have a right to rob your own bank just as well as the next guy.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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EXC
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Vastet wrote:Only if a

Vastet wrote:
Only if a citizen is willing to work but there is no job available would someone be entitled to basic living without working.

If the government controls all commerse, why would there ever be no jobs available?

If the government controls all commerse, we can only buy what the government planners decide?

How do you deal with shortages? Rationing or let prices rise to meet demand.

If you ban political parties, doesn't that also mean eliminating free speech and freedom of association?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Old Seer wrote:Of course

Old Seer wrote:
Of course they stole it. This shows how stupid you are . You can do the same thing.

My ethics forbidding me from playing the system has absolutely nothing to do with my intelligence or capability.

EXC wrote:
If the government controls all commerse, why would there ever be no jobs available?

Supply and demand requires flexibility in the workforce, and no system can function with stability and longevity without supply and demand.

EXC wrote:
If the government controls all commerse, we can only buy what the government planners decide?

No more or less than they do already. Competition is a necessity for growth, so just slapping the same government lables on everything would be counterproductive. There would still be a need for corporate-like structures. These structures would simply be handed to those who proved their capability instead of those who simply had large bank accounts.

EXC wrote:
How do you deal with shortages? Rationing or let prices rise to meet demand.

Many shortage problems could be prevented by adequate planning. Otherwise supply and demand requires increasing prices. Rationing would only be an issue for necessities of life like clean water.

EXC wrote:
If you ban political parties, doesn't that also mean eliminating free speech and freedom of association?

Quite the opposite. Political parties ban free speech. And nothing about banning political parties prevents people with similar political interests from working with each other.
Right now people who were elected to one party can be kicked out of the party for refusing to vote with the party. That means a very few people in each party control the entire party. That's unacceptable.

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digitalbeachbum
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Vastet wrote:My methods

Vastet wrote:
My methods would do all of that. Elimination of private commerce into a public/social system would be a deathblow to the rich. There'd never be a millionaire again. Noone in all of history has ever earned that kind of money & power. They stole it or were given it, they never earned it. As for being poor, that would be a choice.

When you say get rid of the private commerce you are speaking about the commerce department?


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Don't be taking my post

Don't be taking my post seriously. But if robbery is the method of life for the day why are we standing around poor.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
My methods would do all of that. Elimination of private commerce into a public/social system would be a deathblow to the rich. There'd never be a millionaire again. Noone in all of history has ever earned that kind of money & power. They stole it or were given it, they never earned it. As for being poor, that would be a choice.

When you say get rid of the private commerce you are speaking about the commerce department?

I basically refer to taking private ownership of assets above a certain value and criminalising the private ownership of such assets. To installing an education system that reaches into all corporations, instead of ending with high school. This system would assess individuals and reward them for performance, granting people who demonstrate superior capability the ability to take positions of authority, answerable to the government, which is answerable to the people. All corporate finances and internal details would become public information, except any details which would affect security.

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Old Seer wrote:Don't be

Old Seer wrote:
Don't be taking my post seriously.

I'm just being brief and blunt with my responses here, so don't assume I've been insulted or am insulting. Your previous statement is one I've heard many times from people who were being serious. That's the only reason I quoted it actually.

Old Seer wrote:
But if robbery is the method of life for the day why are we standing around poor.

As in all things, some people are better skilled at lying and stealing than others. I happen to be exceptionally good at both. But I only use such skills as survival mechanisms. I'm too well tuned to the psychology of others to be able to use those skills gratuitously.

Perhaps that's why I so easily recognise the inherent flaws in the workings of society today. I know how it works and I'm quite skilled at working it, I just recognise the unnecessary suffering that is the inevitable result, and cannot abide supporting such. Because I'm emotionally divested from the system I have sufficient motivation to seek a new system.

My only problem is I seem to be alone in that.

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EXC
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Vastet wrote: Many shortage

Vastet wrote:
Many shortage problems could be prevented by adequate planning.

The problem with planned economics is that planners plan for their own survival and pleasure but not anyone else. How do you get beauracrats and politicians to not be self interested?

Do you need to build a wall to keep the ambitious from escaping this utopia or does the whole world need to adopt this at the same time?

Vastet wrote:
Quite the opposite. Political parties ban free speech. And nothing about banning political parties prevents people with similar political interests from working with each other. Right now people who were elected to one party can be kicked out of the party for refusing to vote with the party. That means a very few people in each party control the entire party. That's unacceptable.

I don't understand, if people don't like what you're doing, can we form a group to oppose you and publish nasty things about your plans? So isn't that a political party? What exactly do you tell people do or not do at gunpoint that is different than now? Could we work on space colonization to get the hell away from your paradise on earth?

Political parties can't ban anything. You need men with guns to do that. All they can do is tell you to leave their meetings and ask the government to charge you with trespassing if you don't. What I'd like to see is not putting party affiliation next to candidates name on ballots, not giving favor for parties to get on the ballots.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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You are definetly not alone.

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:
Don't be taking my post seriously.
I'm just being brief and blunt with my responses here, so don't assume I've been insulted or am insulting. Your previous statement is one I've heard many times from people who were being serious. That's the only reason I quoted it actually.
Old Seer wrote:
But if robbery is the method of life for the day why are we standing around poor.
As in all things, some people are better skilled at lying and stealing than others. I happen to be exceptionally good at both. But I only use such skills as survival mechanisms. I'm too well tuned to the psychology of others to be able to use those skills gratuitously. Perhaps that's why I so easily recognise the inherent flaws in the workings of society today. I know how it works and I'm quite skilled at working it, I just recognise the unnecessary suffering that is the inevitable result, and cannot abide supporting such. Because I'm emotionally divested from the system I have sufficient motivation to seek a new system. My only problem is I seem to be alone in that.

If you go to our website you'll find what we propose for an economy.

Every economy we looked at or could reason out didn't work. We find economies cannot work. We always ended up creating an ant hill. An ant hill works very well for ants but not for people. Ants don't have much for emotion and reason, so they don't need social security etc. At a certain age they die and are replaced by the queen ant. But the queen ant only reproduces the number needed to sustain the hill. They don't feel sorry fo sufferers or those that fall by the wayside. Ants are more clonish then people. the produce replicas of the last generation. There;s the one main problem with people economies, the system tends to create a genaric person (artificial person). You mention those with better skills etc, that's another problem economies don't take into account. We all don't have the same level of aptitudes.

Different levels of aptitude disallow creating a genaric person. In a monetary economy if there will be those with a higher aptitude for making money. We find (here's a real problem) people who are less compasionate have a higher aptitude for money, those more compassonate---less money. Money making then requires less regard for others. Eventually, as we see today, a few end up with the most money. I(n order to solve all these problems it takes and ant hill society. This (in terms of economy) creates social problems. government intervention in peoples lives leaads to an ant hill,, and no one wants to be an ant. Ants don't have rights, so i9f the government wants an ant hill it has to be a fair one, but there's little fairness that can be acheived in an ant hill.  If your old in an ant hill---you have to go--guess where. On one hand the gov trys (unknowingly) to create an ant hill, on the other no one wants to be an ant. Then there's capitalism, the predator. Some have a better aptitude for being a predator, the best prdators alway win, as "again" we can see today.

We could get no economy to work except the ant hill. We end up with the one we have on the website, but you have to get rid of governemnt and religion for it to work. We found also, that the econo0my on the website really doesn't work either, but it can be re-set every year ot periodically. A money economy cannot be re-set---so it just has to faile bringing drastic consequences. In a money economy the rich won't allow it to be reset, becasue all money has to be made worthless eliminating the rich who have to start over. In an ant hill economy everything and every one has to be controlled---like in the ant hill. No one has enough brainery to do the job.

And, governments do not like smart people that are not under its control. So, one has to be deliberatly dumb to get along with government. Government people would rather make mistakes (this is why they have to lie so much) and have the people suffer the consequences then be out done by lessor who are smarter then they. That';s why they search the colleges to find the smart ones. They want them under government control. Guys like Snowden are just as smart as any government guy, very likely smarter. That's why there is the sayinf---it dangerous to be right when the government is wrong. IE-that's why the whistle blower program is for catching wistle blowers, not  government wrong doers.

We found that one factor alway remained. If there's government or religion around they'll ruin the economy. Economy has to be founded for the sake of need, not greed. Greed is a destroyer, it eventually even destroys the greedy.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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EXC wrote:The problem with

EXC wrote:
The problem with planned economics is that planners plan for their own survival and pleasure but not anyone else. How do you get beauracrats and politicians to not be self interested?

By not letting them have power indefinitely, regardless of how well they do their job. A few years at most before they were reassigned. Less if there was any indications of wrong doing, and the entire public would have access to information to find out if such were the case. If someone abused their authority for personal gain at the expense of the state, they would lose the privilege of working in positions of authority.

EXC wrote:
Do you need to build a wall to keep the ambitious from escaping this utopia or does the whole world need to adopt this at the same time?

Noone ambitious would have any reason to 'escape'. More likely ambitious people would seek entry. But all it would require is sufficient resources, persons, and space to be self sufficient.

EXC wrote:
I don't understand, if people don't like what you're doing, can we form a group to oppose you and publish nasty things about your plans?

Long as you are being factual I don't see why not. If you're making bullshit claims however you'll be spending time in prison. Lying at the political level would be a capitol offence. As bad as treason, because it is treason.

EXC wrote:
So isn't that a political party?

You must not know anything about political parties if you think a few friends voting together and making ads is a political party.

EXC wrote:
What exactly do you tell people do or not do at gunpoint that is different than now?

The whole point is to not tell people what to do. We've just watched the US democratic party sabotage one of its own out of bias. Whether you like Bernie or not, you can't think it a good thing that a few people who run a party with millions of individuals can override millions of opinions. If you think it's good, then you're an enemy of democracy and free speech and have no business querying me over those subjects.

EXC wrote:
Could we work on space colonization to get the hell away from your paradise on earth?

Who's going to stop you? Just don't expect any help.

EXC wrote:
Political parties can't ban anything.

Bullshit. Political parties can ban whatever they like. It has no legal grounds, but it has party grounds. You don't comply, there's the door. There goes all your support and connections. Just because you won't see jail over a party ban doesn't mean there are no consequences at all. Exile from a political party is a significant consequence.

EXC wrote:
You need men with guns to do that.

No, you don't.

EXC wrote:
All they can do is tell you to leave their meetings and ask the government to charge you with trespassing if you don't.

Bullshit. The party can slander you, make legal difficulties, campaign against you, and more.
All a group of likeminded individuals could do under MY system is tell you to leave or charge you with trespassing if you don't.

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Vastet
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Old Seer wrote:Every economy

Old Seer wrote:
Every economy we looked at or could reason out didn't work. We find economies cannot work.

An economy is a necessary prerequisite for society. You literally cannot have society without an economy. Even ants have an economy.

Old Seer wrote:
You mention those with better skills etc, that's another problem economies don't take into account. We all don't have the same level of aptitudes.

I've taken it into account.

Old Seer wrote:
Different levels of aptitude disallow creating a genaric person. In a monetary economy if there will be those with a higher aptitude for making money. We find (here's a real problem) people who are less compasionate have a higher aptitude for money, those more compassonate---less money. Money making then requires less regard for others.

Which can be dealt with by limiting the size and influence of corporations and governments. By limiting the ability of those with efficient but non-compassionate personalities to hold power over personnel. Someone who is good with money but an inconsiderate ass to people would never hold authority over people.

Old Seer wrote:
We could get no economy to work except the ant hill. We end up with the one we have on the website, but you have to get rid of governemnt and religion for it to work.

Not possible. And not necessary. Ants use government (dictatorship), by the way. There's no such thing as a social species without some form of government. It has never happened and will never happen. They are inseparable concepts.

Religion isn't necessary but it can't hurt, and isn't going anywhere soon anyway.

Old Seer wrote:
And, governments do not like smart people that are not under its control.

Because governments are not democratic institutions obligated to follow the will of the people. The government I speak of is, and would welcome intelligent people.

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Any economy works

up to a certain point, then they end.

1- that's why we came up with an economy---you are right that a society needs an economy. The ants do have an economy- agree.

2- Restricting size of Corporations etc. You would also have to limit wealth. At a certain  wealth level one would hve to be removed from the economy. Remember now, money is power in an economy. When one's weath limit is reduced that same could re enter the economy. Your concept is understood. How would the economic handlers/watchers/etc gauge ones compassonate level. How does such a decision get made.

3- Ant hills are governed by the queen ant, not by reason but by chemical signal. Different chemicals cause ceratan ant behaviour. Slightly different genetic in each ant responds differently to a chemical. Some chemicals have no effect on certain other ants. The governing factor in their case is the chemical presence in the hill. I cannt say how the queen knows which chemical to use at which time. But then again, aren't we govered by brain chemicals to grater or lesser degree much the same. That would be internal of couarse not external. Agree, a society must be governed in some way.

Be aware now, when you Limit this or limit that you could be creating an ant hill. Certain things can only be done or allowed at certain times, or floks start creating their own ideas. What does one do about palm grease--that's a problem.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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Old Seer wrote:Any economy

Old Seer wrote:
Any economy works up to a certain point, then they end.

That's the nature of the universe. Everything ends. Entropy absolutely guarantees it. You can't fight entropy, so it's pointless to seek a system that can last forever. What you want is a system that can last a long time, that is as fair and compassionate as is possible to be. The moment you start concerning yourself with forever you've made your job impossible.

Old Seer wrote:
2- Restricting size of Corporations etc. You would also have to limit wealth.

I already mentioned that.in post 56:

Vastet wrote:
I basically refer to taking private ownership of assets above a certain value and criminalising the private ownership of such assets.

Old Seer wrote:
How would the economic handlers/watchers/etc gauge ones compassonate level. How does such a decision get made.

The same way it happens now: public opinion.

Old Seer wrote:
3- Ant hills are governed by the queen ant, not by reason but by chemical signal.

Actually recent research suggests that all animal life is conscious and self aware on at least some level. So there's no evidence to suggest there is no reasoning in an ant colony.

Old Seer wrote:
Be aware now, when you Limit this or limit that you could be creating an ant hill. Certain things can only be done or allowed at certain times, or floks start creating their own ideas. What does one do about palm grease--that's a problem.

The goal of the system is to support a sustainable society, not to limit ideas or beliefs.

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absolutely. everything


absolutely. everything ends. that's why you can't "make america great again." america has passed its greatness. it's on the decline. it is irreversible. there isn't enough force in the entire human race to overcome that kind of inertia.

that's where i part ways with marx. marx was convinced that the stage of communism would resolve all economic and social contradictions--the "end of histoy," which, as a hegelian, he took for granted. it was mao zedong who, as so many forget, in his essay "on contradictions," wrote (heretically, i might add, as far as orthodox marxism-leninism is concerned) that undoubtedly the stage of communism will also give birth to other contradictions that we cannot yet foresee. thus, evolution, and with it revolution, is eternal.

so grab your gun. this shit ain't ever getting any better. res ipsa loquitor.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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OK, all well and good

we predict an economy will last 30 years before breakdowns begin and have to be adjusted. Or, a reset factor should be put in, which menas a "start" over point/process before catasrophic breakdown.

Also consider-Ant colonies don't always have the same number of ants every year. That means the queen doesn't repopulate for some reasons. It could be the area of need runs out of food and the colony suffers a lose of inhabitants. Think abouit incorporateing a restart mechanism of some sort.

 

 

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you predict? get in line

you predict? get in line with that shit. i'm from kentucky, hoss, and your predictions are a skittish, unbroken colt i won't buy.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Well.

iwbiek wrote:
you predict? get in line with that shit. i'm from kentucky, hoss, and your predictions are a skittish, unbroken colt i won't buy.
Vastet nor I are trying to save America. I for one know damn well it's almost over. The whol;e I dea of America wasn't an expeiment, it was a farce. The founders themslves broke the constitution the day they signed it. The idea (as it turns out) is America was "supposed to" produce a free person, with the right to owm one's own property. to be secure in there persons and effects. That's not what the founders believed becasue they didn't do it. I'm not even refering to slavery. They didn't respect each others rights. They didn't reason that to overtake/power others removes the rights they established. Economies thus far require the giving up of rights to belong to one.

We're conversing about ecomomy of which there is nothing of mention in the constitution. This is about economies working or not.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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Old Seer wrote:we predict an

Old Seer wrote:
we predict an economy will last 30 years before breakdowns begin and have to be adjusted.

I'm looking at considerably longer than 30 years. The current system has functioned for millennia, and actually functions much better now than it used to. It simply isn't quite adequate for the next stage of our society.

Old Seer wrote:
Or, a reset factor should be put in, which menas a "start" over point/process before catasrophic breakdown.

The people of the future have to be responsible for a reset. You can't constantly reset the economy without drastically retarding it. And eventually people will simply find ways to take advantage of the constant resets. You need a system stable enough to last. Catastrophic breakdowns can happen as long as the system can weather them. They happen now and society plods along. As long as there isn't an inherent flaw like inflation in the system, there's no problem.

Old Seer wrote:
Also consider-Ant colonies don't always have the same number of ants every year.

I covered that already too, in response to EXC asking why there would ever be a lack of jobs.

Old Seer wrote:
Vastet nor I are trying to save America. I for one know damn well it's almost over. The whol;e I dea of America wasn't an expeiment, it was a farce. The founders themslves broke the constitution the day they signed it. The idea (as it turns out) is America was "supposed to" produce a free person, with the right to owm one's own property. to be secure in there persons and effects. That's not what the founders believed becasue they didn't do it. I'm not even refering to slavery. They didn't respect each others rights. They didn't reason that to overtake/power others removes the rights they established. Economies thus far require the giving up of rights to belong to one.
We're conversing about ecomomy of which there is nothing of mention in the constitution. This is about economies working or not.

America is merely the spokesman of the problem today. Technicaly America didn't even exist when the problem came into being, so the Americans certainly can't shoulder any more blame than anyone else.

I don't think America is necessarily doomed. The sudden willingness to support a leftist like Bernie Sanders suggests the country is on the edge of a major philosophical change. Before this election I would have agreed America was doomed. Now I'm not so sure.

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I understand you very well.

I particularly like you idea of "compassonate economy". I think I called that right. there has to be some way to make up for shortfalls and nonworking situations that are unavoidables and not a persons fault. I;d say you have that covered. As recent history has it, predatorism has to be controlled. It makes no sense for someone to have a billion bucks when they can never spend that much. And as seen they can deliberatly become a detriment to economy. Economies also have to be fair, and you have that covered. What I basically mean by Ameria is almost over is, if this deal we have going now isn't changed it will be over. We're looking at the rich in high rise luxury and eveyone else is in the darkages. America brags that it is the prime mover in the world and supposed to be some new thing in the world. If the constitution was adhered to maybe so. For now it's turned itself into the worlds largest banana republic. The brits have more going for citizen respect the the US. If you use your free speech the gov calls you a nut case.

Every democrat should write in Bernie and bypass Hillary. The billaries were never more then shyster lawyers anyway.

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Vastet wrote:Noone ambitious

Vastet wrote:
Noone ambitious would have any reason to 'escape'. More likely ambitious people would seek entry.

But all it would require is sufficient resources, persons, and space to be self sufficient.  

So even if it this were to work, high birthrates and immigration would negate any gains. Everybody going to want to move to your utopia. Without birth control and border control, the best you can do is make the treadmill move faster, but you never move forward with eliminating poverty over time. That is why places with a booming economy end up with high rents and housing shortages, just as much poverty, just more crowded. I'd personally prefer living in a sparcely populated place with some poverty than a crowded place with some poverty.

Hate to quote the bible, but there is nothing new under the sun. The latest examples of what you propose is North Korea and Venezuala. They all start out with this same idealism, leftist elitists that proport to know it and will make things fair. They have to eliminate political oposition by jailing or killing them. In the end they enrich themselves, the unwashed masses are fighting over food scraps.

We know what works, we have plenty of examples. Low birthrates and limiting immigration from places with high birthrates.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:So even if it this

EXC wrote:
So even if it this were to work, high birthrates and immigration would negate any gains.

No. The system isn't vulnerable to population shifts. Besides, birth rates will fall as education levels increase, and gaining admission via immigration would not be a quick and easy feat.

EXC wrote:
Everybody going to want to move to your utopia.

No they won't. Canada is at least 3x better a place to live than the US, and 100x better than anywhere in Africa or the Middle East (Israel included), yet the whole world isn't trying to live here.

If the system works, and the system is sufficiently superior than the previous system, then the system will be replicated elsewhere. Much like how the West took the French's lead on justice, and the Greeks lead on government.

EXC wrote:
That is why places with a booming economy end up with high rents and housing shortages, just as much poverty,

You can't compare a city to a nation. People from all over the US can flock to San Fransisco at will. Not so easy to do when crossing national borders.
Also, rent is absurdly high no matter where you go.

EXC wrote:
Hate to quote the bible, but there is nothing new under the sun.

False. Noone in all of human history has ever implemented even a substantial fraction of what I propose.

EXC wrote:
The latest examples of what you propose is North Korea and Venezuala.

A dictatorship cannot resemble a democracy. And Venezuela isn't remotely comparable either.

EXC wrote:
They all start out with this same idealism, leftist elitists that proport to know it and will make things fair.

Nope.

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You'll need a plan

to get around government supported vandals. What will you do about them. If you don't incorporate capitalists into the plan they'll burn the wheat fields, wreck the saw mill,  and shoot the cattle, (and very likely your dog). What do you do about them. I take it you are aware of the WW II statement by Roosavelt, the world was made safe for democacy, but today we know it was made safe for capitalism. Thet's why the US didn't like russia, Capitalists don't want competition, so they can't abide any system that could work as good or better then their.

Governent floks will declare it was vandals that destroyed your stuff, and they would be right, but it was their vandals, wink wink. And by measuring what will be done about isis---we can use the recent investigation into the 2008 Wall Street robbers as the example The gov couldn't find anyone they could prove anything on. So, what about those vandals? You'll have to deal with it.

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Quote:You'll need a plan to

Quote:
You'll need a plan to get around government supported vandals.

What?

Quote:
If you don't incorporate capitalists into the plan they'll burn the wheat fields, wreck the saw mill,  and shoot the cattle, (and very likely your dog).

Criminals will go to prison as they do now.

Quote:
I take it you are aware of the WW II statement by Roosavelt, the world was made safe for democacy, but today we know it was made safe for capitalism.

Nope. The US barely did anything in either world war. In fact, the only thing the US did of true substance in either war was the greatest terrorist strike in human history. I'm not inclined to pay any attention whatsoever to the words of war criminals.

But the world was already capitalism friendly. Hitler wasn't a socialist, regardless of what his party was called. Only Russia, China, and a few inconsequential smaller nations have ever made any attempt to challenge capitalism, and none of those actually got rid of capitalism. They just changed which lake the river of wealth drained into.

Quote:
Thet's why the US didn't like russia

The US didn't like Russia because Russia defeated the Nazi's, and the US wanted to take credit for that. The US has spent 70 years trying to pretend they won the war single handedly, despite doing absolutely nothing to end the war against the Nazi's.
Russia also wasn't willing to let the US take over the world anymore than they were willing to let Hitler do it, which meant the two countries were destined to be enemies.

The Americans are the beligerent party in US Russia relations. They always have been. It's amazing that the Russians have taken it for so long without doing anything drastic.

Quote:
Governent floks will declare it was vandals that destroyed your stuff, and they would be right, but it was their vandals, wink wink.

If you're referring to spies and saboteurs from other countries, that's a problem today as well, under any system. I'd let my spies and saboteurs take care of it.

Quote:
And by measuring what will be done about isis

ISIS is irrelevant. In every possible meaning of the word.

Quote:
we can use the recent investigation into the 2008 Wall Street robbers as the example The gov couldn't find anyone they could prove anything on.

The government didn't and doesn't have sufficient access to corporate records in the current system to prevent such things, but in my system everyone in the country would have full and unfettered access to any and all information which does not constitute a major national security risk.

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Ooops, what da hek

I didn't mean ISIS I ment wall street. Well, what da hell, there's not much difference is there if one is robbed to death or shot to death.

The system seems to have different degrees of dead. Dead from a car accident isn't as dead as being shot dead. I suppose if a gun grabber shot you, youre not as dead as if a gun nut shoots you. Floks belonging to the NRA can shoot floks deader then others. I wonder how dead one is if a police officer shoots someone.

 

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Wall Street isn't a concern.

Wall Street isn't a concern. There would be no way to implement this system in the US without completely deconstructing the system in place: which would require either the support of a vast majority of American citizens, or an outside force conquering the country. Neither of which is feasible at this time.

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That is fairly

Vastet wrote:
Wall Street isn't a concern. There would be no way to implement this system in the US without completely deconstructing the system in place: which would require either the support of a vast majority of American citizens, or an outside force conquering the country. Neither of which is feasible at this time.
well that my last post is about. There is an econimy in place so you need a transition to the other.  The process you have in mind (getting rid of the present economy) would be a must, or you wake up some monday morning and find the whole warehouse  showed up missing for work and is nothing more then a smokeing hole in the ground. You need a nonresistance circumstance to open the store, right. Agree.

 

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