If the Democratic Convention fixed what happened. #FeeltheBern

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If the Democratic Convention fixed what happened. #FeeltheBern

Rachel Maddow: It seems like there's nothing they[DNC] can say to calm the Bernie supporters down.

DNC with heads out of assholes could've fixed this by saying:
"We are inspired by recent actions of Bernie Sanders. While he has hundreds of thousands of people fighting for him to be their nominee he is begging his supporters for unity behind Hillary. He believes that as a society, our primary goal should be to make sure Donald Trump is not going to be our President. And while he could just as easily be fighting for his place on the ticket by lobbying superdelegates he's become a supporter of Hillary even though he doesn't completely share her vision. He is an inspiration to us all as he shows us the most important issue for our planet today is ensuring that a psychotic ego maniacal self absorbed thin skinned sociopath never has the power to launch a nuclear weapon.


As a result, we recognize that Hillary isn't the best candidate to beat Donald Trump. We see that she is now behind in the polls by 4 points and that an overwhelming majority of America doesn't trust her. We are now asking all of the super delegates to set aside their long standing alliance with Hillary Clinton that virtually ensured her as the democratic candidate before the primary started. We are asking all states in which delegates are allowed to vote their conscience and recognize that Hillary will get beat by Donald Trump to vote for Bernie. We apologize deeply that the deck was stacked against Bernie through super delegates and corrupt DNC leadership that committed fraud against Bernie's supporters. This was a grave mistake that will destroy our party unless we can prove to America that we truly put the citizens of this country first.


We refuse to continue the years of cronyism. We applaud Bernie for not being beholden to special interests like Hillary and most of us for that matter. We applaud Bernie for placing the 99% first and recognize he will fight for America as a whole better than Hillary. And with that said, I would like to introduce Hillary Clinton who will come out to apologize for lying to you about her emails in order to pull the wool over your eyes to steal the nomination. Hillary is inspired by Bernie and recognizes that he has an abundantly better chance of beating Trump. And since she truly does care about America and the world more than her own political aims, she has decided to do the right thing. Please welcome Hillary Clinton..."

 

Special bonus points if they stated they also give in considering they've displayed their incompentence by not having the author of "Art of the Deai" in a major speaking point to explain why with 18 months of first hand knowledge of Donald Trump he believes Donald as President will be the end of civilization.  

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 Julian Assange: My Next

 Julian Assange: My Next Leak Will Ensure Hillary’s Arrest

This is all pretty strange, I can't believe all these elite Dems. pushing Hillary on the Bernie supporters don't know the evidence is out there to jail her.

Maybe they secretly want Trump. They need an enemy in the Whitehouse to increase their own power.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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The democrats have proved

The democrats have proved they're just as out of touch as the republicans this election. The goal of a female president and vindication for Hillary after 3 odd decades of attacks is more important to the party than preventing the next demagogue from achieving power, and more important than the will of the people of the US as well. If Trump gets elected, the democrats will be taking a full share of the blame for letting it happen.

I don't blame Sanders supporters for refusing to vote Hillary. I wouldn't be able to vote for her either. Not after seeing all the bullshit the democrats did to stack the deck for her. She may or may not be corrupt as they say (I don't believe she is any worse than the average politician myself), but the party itself is corrupt to the core and needs a major kick in the teeth to wake them up to reality. If a Trump president is the only such kick that will work, then so be it. Things will only look worse 4 or 8 years down the road if this is how politics in the US works with both parties.

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Here's something for

all stoop backed, low brow, foot thumbed, Atheist bow legged knuckle draggers.

They don't like Atheists, ----both parties I assume.

If the link don't work search Daily News/trending

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/atheism-slur-american-life-dnc-emails-show-article-1.2725247

 

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 Brian, I voted for Bernie

 Brian, I voted for Bernie as well. But politics in America as always been dirty and messy. But in my view, there is no comparrison of what Hillary has been accused of or the DNC for that matter as compaired to the long term scapegoating hate and fear the GOP finally got unmasked with Trump. Nixion and WaterGate. Reagan and Iran/Contra wich had many convicted. And Bush's two failed wars and one based on a clear lie which cause the needless deaths of our military an countless civilians and to this day are still having to deal with Bush's mess.

 

In a perfect world we'd all get what we want. But at this point in history Trump is a extremely dangerous demagogue. Bernie himself sat throught the vote and enorsed Hilllary. I am not asking anyone to like her, as I said I voted for Bernie too. But as he said himself, this ellection is not about him or Hillary. This is about the entire future of the nation, and under Trump we have NO chance at all. 

If Trump were to win, he'd have enough of a majority to undo the mending Obama did. Under Trump there would be more corporate welfare. Under Trump there would be more part time and poverty wages. Under Trump there would be more attacks on women's reproductive rights. And lets not forget that he is running for the bigoted GOP and lied at his convention claiming he is or LGBTQ while selecting a running mate who has passed laws allowing discrimination against LGBTQ. He has demonize a sitting judge with no cloud of suspicion on top of blacklisting certain press from his events. Trump has prased despot Putin, has praised the brutality of Saddam and been endorsed by North Korean dictator Kim Jong Un. We have to pick our battles and right now, the threat of handing our nation over to a very dangerous demagogue like Trump is far more important to me.

 

 

 

 

 

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 How exactly does keeping

 How exactly does keeping the border open to flood our country with cheap illegal labor help your economic lot in life? How exactly are you going to be paid a living wage when employers can hire all the cheap labor they please under Hillary?

Isn't cheap illegal immigration labor the best corporate welfare of all?

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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I'm rather baffled

EXC wrote:

 How exactly does keeping the border open to flood our country with cheap illegal labor help your economic lot in life? How exactly are you going to be paid a living wage when employers can hire all the cheap labor they please under Hillary?

Isn't cheap illegal immigration labor the best corporate welfare of all?

 

as to why there's such a fear of Trump. The guy's a blowhard that speaks his mind, and rather crudely at that. But he's no more danger to the country then anyone else in my estimation. There's a system of checks and balances that keeps such types in line. And, there's plenty of Republicans that don't like him, and would oppose any out of the ordinary procedures. I'm not a political entity or voter, but I don't see him to be any more dangerous then any previous. To some Obama was the antiChrist, the 666, the 10-4, and very likely the I-94 interstate highway to some. Trump is going to be dangerous to some specific government programs no doubt, but all presidents have been that. I can't see how he's going to collapse civilization---as I've seem mentioned somewhere in the news---How so???? The world is already doing a bangup job of that without him. I'm going to stay relaxed over the whole deal, and I'll bet I'll be right. If he wants to be president he'll do some changing.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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BTW

Old Seer wrote:

all stoop backed, low brow, foot thumbed, Atheist bow legged knuckle draggers.

They don't like Atheists, ----both parties I assume.

If the link don't work search Daily News/trending

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/atheism-slur-american-life-dnc-emails-show-article-1.2725247

 

The description of Atheists above is my take on what they think. That's not what I think.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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EXC wrote: How exactly does

EXC wrote:

 How exactly does keeping the border open to flood our country with cheap illegal labor help your economic lot in life? How exactly are you going to be paid a living wage when employers can hire all the cheap labor they please under Hillary?

Isn't cheap illegal immigration labor the best corporate welfare of all?

 

 

Uggg, hate to tell you this but under Obama, he has had a high rate of deportation. The difference with him and dems, is we don't make WW2 German cattle car blanket solutions. I am sick of your bigoted bullshit. Legal or illegal, it is inhuman when it comes to non violent immigrants to treat them as if every single one is a Ted Bundy. Legal or illegal most humans are simply trying to survive. And even if we suddenly stopped all illegal immigration tommorow it would still reman that the majority of violent criminals are born here. Just like the majority of violent criminals in China are Chinese. 

Fuck you. You sound exactly like Frank Burns from MASH who treated poor desperate locals in North Korea as if they were sub human just because they spoke funny. Don't you hand me any bullshit that if you lived in poor nation and had nothing, and especially if you had a family to feed you wouldn't make the attempt to go where the resources were? That is fucking evolution you bigoted fucking retard! 

Most people who migrate, away from poverty or war, are not violent. That has always been the case in human history globally. And it has always been the case in every nation, that the majority of criminals are born in that nation. 

Please you judgemental fuck, don't call yourself an atheist or claim to value evolution, if you refuse to see that any human or groups of humans will react the same way to conditions on average under simliar conditions.

 

FUCK YOU BIGOT.

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 And another thing asshole.

 And another thing asshole. I have TWO hispanic families living on both sides of me. I don't know their legal status nor will I rat them out. Why? Because they have lived next to me for  almost a decade without one lick of trouble. In my 50 years of life I have also run into assholes of all races born here who are legal that have concerned me far more.  If you are going to ask me to chose between protecting a violent white asshole born here vs a non violent illegal, you can go fuck yourself. Of corse I am willing to deport violent people, but violence is not a patent based on religion or nationality, our species ability to be cruel or compasionate, has always existed, long before any set boarders and nations.

I would rather deport an asshole like you than deport a non violent illegal.

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Brian37 wrote:Uggg, hate to

Brian37 wrote:

Uggg, hate to tell you this but under Obama, he has had a high rate of deportation.

Oh so you're telling us that Obama is a biggot for not letting everyone stay?

Brian37 wrote:

The difference with him and dems, is we don't make WW2 German cattle car blanket solutions.

Pure Strawman. My solution is simple. Jail people for hiring illegals. You don't want to answer the question of letting the rich hire illegals is welfare for the rich. Instead you make strawmen.

Brian37 wrote:

I am sick of your bigoted bullshit. Legal or illegal, it is inhuman when it comes to non violent immigrants to treat them as if every single one is a Ted Bundy.

When did I say execute or incarcerate them? I say punish the rich people hiring them, treat them like Bundy until they stop.

You're the one telling us the importance of minimum wage. Well guess what, you can't have minimum wage unless you punish those that hire and pay illegally.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Legal or illegal most humans are simply trying to survive.

Since you are fighting to survive, why do you want to compete will illegals for jobs and housing? The earth has limited resouses, but humans have infinite capacity to breed. So who survives you or them?

I'd be for the Mexicans if they replace you.

Brian37 wrote:

FUCK YOU BIGOT.

Too ignorant to debate, so you hate.

But you've changed my mind, I'll be OK with bringing in an immigrant if we could get rid of an ignorant native such as yourself.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Brian37 wrote: And another

Brian37 wrote:

 And another thing asshole. I have TWO hispanic families living on both sides of me. I don't know their legal status nor will I rat them out. Why? Because they have lived next to me for  almost a decade without one lick of trouble. In my 50 years of life I have also run into assholes of all races born here who are legal that have concerned me far more.  If you are going to ask me to chose between protecting a violent white asshole born here vs a non violent illegal, you can go fuck yourself. Of corse I am willing to deport violent people, but violence is not a patent based on religion or nationality, our species ability to be cruel or compasionate, has always existed, long before any set boarders and nations.

I would rather deport an asshole like you than deport a non violent illegal.

So why do you bitch about being poor all the time? You're the one that's OK with tons of competition for jobs and housing.

BTW, I left voluntarily. You can pay for the USA welfare state. Oh, I forgot your broke. Guess you'll have to fight it our for survival.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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EXC wrote:Brian37

EXC wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Uggg, hate to tell you this but under Obama, he has had a high rate of deportation.

Oh so you're telling us that Obama is a biggot for not letting everyone stay?

Brian37 wrote:

The difference with him and dems, is we don't make WW2 German cattle car blanket solutions.

Pure Strawman. My solution is simple. Jail people for hiring illegals. You don't want to answer the question of letting the rich hire illegals is welfare for the rich. Instead you make strawmen.

Brian37 wrote:

I am sick of your bigoted bullshit. Legal or illegal, it is inhuman when it comes to non violent immigrants to treat them as if every single one is a Ted Bundy.

When did I say execute or incarcerate them? I say punish the rich people hiring them, treat them like Bundy until they stop.

You're the one telling us the importance of minimum wage. Well guess what, you can't have minimum wage unless you punish those that hire and pay illegally.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Legal or illegal most humans are simply trying to survive.

Since you are fighting to survive, why do you want to compete will illegals for jobs and housing? The earth has limited resouses, but humans have infinite capacity to breed. So who survives you or them?

I'd be for the Mexicans if they replace you.

Brian37 wrote:

FUCK YOU BIGOT.

Too ignorant to debate, so you hate.

But you've changed my mind, I'll be OK with bringing in an immigrant if we could get rid of an ignorant native such as yourself.

Yes, I do hate, you try to use that as  a slur. If your bullshit attitude is to make blanket solutions about individuals you have never met and pressume their guilt even if they are non violent, of course I fucking hate that, fuck you Frank Burns.

Ha! Ignorant is thinking you can slap simple blanket solutions on a complex and diverse species. Ignorant is assuming most migrants are criminals when most are not. No matter the country in the world, the majority of criminals are going to be the popuation of that nation. 

Now you shallow dipshit, this isn't rocket science. ALL 7 BILLION HUMANS are the same species. All nations friend and foe alike have both hospitals and prisons. Do not ask me to put a non violent person at risk of going back to where they might suffer or die. Same fucking principle we are supposed to have in our presumption of innocence in the west. Same attitude an ethical judge and jury should have, that it is better to let 10 guilty go free than to convict one innocent human.

MOST human beings are not bad. Most human beings are not violent criminals. It is judmental fuckwads like you who buy into fear that allow our species to be so divided.

If your morals are "fuck em" even before they have gotten violent, then fuck you.

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You are seriously

You are seriously delusional, who are you arguing against? Some made up person in your fantasy world.

An illegal alien is a criminal by definition. You don't get to change the English language just because you don't like a particular law. You are too stupid to understand this.

You tell us most people are non-violent and good, an then tell us the places they came from are too violent and they'll suffer to send them back. Which is it Mr. Delusional?

You are completely delusional about how the world works, so all you can do is present write incohernt remarks laced with profanity. Way to intellectually challenge to ever debate anyone.

 

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Quote:You are seriously

Quote:
You are seriously delusional, who are you arguing against? Some made up person in your fantasy world.

It is very rare that EXC says something which makes me laugh out loud, but that did it. Two thumbs up.

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To the OP:

I would say (from a neutral position) Bernie would be the better President. I don't see Hillary or Trump to be much different then each other. One bluts it out and the other says it with kinder more acceptable wording. Hillary says---I hate you Trump but I like you antway. Trump says, I hate you too Hillary, but I like you anyway, you &*^%$3 and )%@!*. Bernie has a plan and didn't much scrap any skin off anyone. 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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EXC wrote:How exactly does

EXC wrote:

How exactly does keeping the border open to flood our country with cheap illegal labor help your economic lot in life? How exactly are you going to be paid a living wage when employers can hire all the cheap labor they please under Hillary?

Isn't cheap illegal immigration labor the best corporate welfare of all?

 

Are you talking about picking produce? because if you are I want to reach through this computer and punch you in the nuts.


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Old Seer wrote: I would say

Old Seer wrote:

I would say (from a neutral position) Bernie would be the better President. I don't see Hillary or Drumpf to be much different then each other. One bluts it out and the other says it with kinder more acceptable wording. Hillary says---I hate you Drumpf but I like you antway. Drumpf says, I hate you too Hillary, but I like you anyway, you &*^%$3 and )%@!*. Bernie has a plan and didn't much scrap any skin off anyone. 

Bernie is a hundred times better than both of those assholes put together. Clinton and Trump are both fucking douches. if the DNC wouldn't have screwed Bernie and if the GOP would have fielded at least one candidate who didn't have their head up their ass none of us would be doing a [facepalm].


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Old Seer wrote:as to why

Old Seer wrote:

as to why there's such a fear of Drumpf. The guy's a blowhard that speaks his mind, and rather crudely at that. But he's no more danger to the country then anyone else in my estimation. There's a system of checks and balances that keeps such types in line. And, there's plenty of Republicans that don't like him, and would oppose any out of the ordinary procedures. I'm not a political entity or voter, but I don't see him to be any more dangerous then any previous. To some Obama was the antiChrist, the 666, the 10-4, and very likely the I-94 interstate highway to some. Drumpf is going to be dangerous to some specific government programs no doubt, but all presidents have been that. I can't see how he's going to collapse civilization---as I've seem mentioned somewhere in the news---How so???? The world is already doing a bangup job of that without him. I'm going to stay relaxed over the whole deal, and I'll bet I'll be right. If he wants to be president he'll do some changing.

Trump scares me. He'll sell off America.

Clinton is the status quo. You know what you are getting. A corrupt politician. And what is baffling, the Trump supporters hate Clinton for all her corruption but they turn a blind eye to the corruption in the own GOP who are so fucking corrupt that they are slowing killing America one vote at a time.


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It shows

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

as to why there's such a fear of Drumpf. The guy's a blowhard that speaks his mind, and rather crudely at that. But he's no more danger to the country then anyone else in my estimation. There's a system of checks and balances that keeps such types in line. And, there's plenty of Republicans that don't like him, and would oppose any out of the ordinary procedures. I'm not a political entity or voter, but I don't see him to be any more dangerous then any previous. To some Obama was the antiChrist, the 666, the 10-4, and very likely the I-94 interstate highway to some. Drumpf is going to be dangerous to some specific government programs no doubt, but all presidents have been that. I can't see how he's going to collapse civilization---as I've seem mentioned somewhere in the news---How so???? The world is already doing a bangup job of that without him. I'm going to stay relaxed over the whole deal, and I'll bet I'll be right. If he wants to be president he'll do some changing.

Trump scares me. He'll sell off America.

Clinton is the status quo. You know what you are getting. A corrupt politician. And what is baffling, the Trump supporters hate Clinton for all her corruption but they turn a blind eye to the corruption in the own GOP who are so fucking corrupt that they are slowing killing America one vote at a time.

people don't get to pick a president. If party leaders can rig the outcome we don't have a democracy. Of course, that's becoming common knowledge. The Billarys have been corrupt from way back in Arkansas.

 

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Are

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Are you talking about picking produce? 

Of course big agra gets rich off of illegals. So do hotel chains, landlords, restaurants. It America's dirtly little secret, the Civil war didn't stop importation of slaves to make a handful wealthier. They've duped people like Brian into thinking this brand of slavery is compassion.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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digitalbeachbum wrote: the

digitalbeachbum wrote:
 the Trump supporters hate Clinton for all her corruption but they turn a blind eye to the corruption in the own GOP who are so fucking corrupt that they are slowing killing America one vote at a time.

What are you talking about? The Trump supporter hate the GOP establishment and visa-versa. That is the whole Trump phenomena is people sick of the DNC and GOP. Trump only had to run as a Republican because the system won't allow 3rd party candidates a chance.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Brian37 wrote:Fuck you. You

Brian37 wrote:

Fuck you. You sound exactly like Frank Burns from MASH who treated poor desperate locals in North Korea as if they were sub human just because they spoke funny. Don't you hand me any bullshit that if you lived in poor nation and had nothing, and especially if you had a family to feed you wouldn't make the attempt to go where the resources were? That is fucking evolution you bigoted fucking retard! 

Yet you (like Trump) oppose outsourcing, which is quite literally sending resources from our country to another, usually poorer, country. Does that mean you are a bigot? 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Old Seer wrote:people don't

Old Seer wrote:

people don't get to pick a president. If party leaders can rig the outcome we don't have a democracy. Of course, that's becoming common knowledge. The Billarys have been corrupt from way back in Arkansas.

I agree and I only realized this in the last few elections. My friends who felt the pain in 2000 with the whole hanging chad stuff, I laughed at them. Now I'm eating crow because I see that voting has very little impact.


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EXC wrote:digitalbeachbum

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Are you talking about picking produce? 

Of course big agra gets rich off of illegals. So do hotel chains, landlords, restaurants. It America's dirtly little secret, the Civil war didn't stop importation of slaves to make a handful wealthier. They've duped people like Brian into thinking this brand of slavery is compassion.

Well I can't see getting rid of the illegals. They tried to do that in Alabama and Georgia and the produce rotted in the fields. And if you get rid of the illegals no American is going to pick based on weight, they also will want more benefits, which will raise the cost of produce. Illegals are here to stay and getting rid of them is a terrible idea.


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EXC wrote: digitalbeachbum

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:
 the Drumpf supporters hate Clinton for all her corruption but they turn a blind eye to the corruption in the own GOP who are so fucking corrupt that they are slowing killing America one vote at a time.

What are you talking about? The Drumpf supporter hate the GOP establishment and visa-versa. That is the whole Drumpf phenomena is people sick of the DNC and GOP. Drumpf only had to run as a Republican because the system won't allow 3rd party candidates a chance.

I totally disagree. I have people who are at work, in my family and friends who all tell me it is the liberals destroying America and that the GOP is the only thing that is going to save them. They all support Trump and they hate Clinton. I keep trying to tell them the GOP is destroying America also. I pointed out on several occasions how they GOP has voted. I showed them actual voting records of the GOP's in their district yet they ignore it. And it is not only at the Federal level. It is at the State and County level too.


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digitalbeachbum wrote: Well

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

Well I can't see getting rid of the illegals. They tried to do that in Alabama and Georgia and the produce rotted in the fields. And if you get rid of the illegals no American is going to pick based on weight, they also will want more benefits, which will raise the cost of produce. Illegals are here to stay and getting rid of them is a terrible idea.

The days of humans picking fruit are numbered.

http://www.goodfruit.com/growers-get-peek-at-automatic-picking-machine-video/

Just about every job done by illegals will be done by robots in the very near future.

 

So all that is going to happen with Hillary is all these former pickers are going on food stamps as soon as they get their ciitizenship, then robots do all the picking. The Fed will have to print money to pay the welfare bills until the currency collapses.

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Funny how you describe a

Funny how you describe a scenario that leads to doom even if you shut the border forever and kick out anyone who wasn't born in the US. Inevitably robots will be doing every job, and noone will have work. Even if immigrants somehow sped up the inevitable collapse (which is so impossible as to be hilarious), the end result is the same whether you have immigrants or not. So clearly the issue you're so upset over is actually 100% not an issue.

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Vastet wrote:Funny how you

Vastet wrote:
Funny how you describe a scenario that leads to doom even if you shut the border forever and kick out anyone who wasn't born in the US. Inevitably robots will be doing every job, and noone will have work. Even if immigrants somehow sped up the inevitable collapse (which is so impossible as to be hilarious), the end result is the same whether you have immigrants or not. So clearly the issue you're so upset over is actually 100% not an issue.

You may be right, the collapse is probably inevitable unless there are major reforms in every area of society, not just immigration. But limiting immigration may give society time to change without a total metltdown. We only get two types of immigrants, manual labors that will soon be replaced by robots, and technology workers that make technology that eliminates jobs and reduce number of tech jobs available to citizens. We don't need either group.

This pure BS to believe that Americans will just starve to death if we don't let big agra have access to illegal labor. Shows how easily duped the masses are by corporate interests.

I don't believe all jobs will be eliminated. All work will eventually become computer programming and computer design. Computers are not going to learn to program themselves anytime soon.

What I don't get is why the left doesn't get upset about big business not paying illegals a living wage? Does a white person need $15/hr to live but a Mexican only $4/Hr.? Seems racist to me, white liberals only upset when white people are poor because of low wages. There are a bunch of other issues like this where if you look at what the say, the left, not Trump are the real racists.

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Personally I think everyone

Personally I think everyone should have a minimum wage, and it should actually be about $20/hr.

Much of computer programming is recycling old code. There's still coding that was first written 60 years ago in use today. Probably about 90% of programming is copy/pasting and quality control. There's nowhere near enough available positions to ever cover even a substantial minority of the population, and computers are very nearly qualified to do much of the leg work as it is. It is quite likely that computers will be writing better code than people within a decade or so. Maybe not for video games and movies and innovation, that would require an element of intelligence a programme can't duplicate. But for coding operating systems and applications they'd do just fine.

Not to mention you'd never be able to employ everyone in IT. A whole lot of people simply aren't suited for it.

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EXC wrote: The days of

EXC wrote:

The days of humans picking fruit are numbered.

http://www.goodfruit.com/growers-get-peek-at-automatic-picking-machine-video/

Just about every job done by illegals will be done by robots in the very near future.

So all that is going to happen with Hillary is all these former pickers are going on food stamps as soon as they get their ciitizenship, then robots do all the picking. The Fed will have to print money to pay the welfare bills until the currency collapses.

That is a prototype apple picking robot. So they are looking for investment capital. So ten years from now they MIGHT have one or two orchards using the machines.

That excludes all the other produce which would need illegals, we are talking hundreds of different fruits and vegetables.

Long after Hillary's grand children children's, maybe then we would be able to get rid of illegals and replace them with robots but you'll never get all the growers to use those machines. Humans will still be better at picking.


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The truth about illegals

http://modernfarmer.com/2013/11/farmworker-confessional/ 

I’ve seen on the news that some Congress members or American citizens say undocumented workers are taking their jobs. We’re not taking their jobs. In the 14 years I’ve been here, I’ve never seen an American working in the fields. I’ve never seen anyone work like Mexicans. In restaurants and construction, you’ll find Salvadorans and Guatemalans, but in the fields, it’s almost all Mexicans.

The work is hard — but many jobs are hard. The thing that bothers me more is the low pay. With cherries, you earn $7 for each box, and I’ll fill 30 boxes in a day — about $210 a day. For blueberries, I’ll do 25 containers for up to $5 each one — $125 a day. With grapes, you make 30 cents for each carton, and I can do 400 cartons a day – $120 a day. Tomatoes are the worst paid: I’ll pick 100 for 62 cents a bucket, or about $62 a day. I don’t do tomatoes much anymore. It’s heavy work, you have to bend over, run to turn in your baskets, and your back hurts. I say I like tomatoes — in a salad. Ha. With a lot of the crops, the bosses keep track of your haul by giving you a card, and punching it every time you turn in a basket.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:That

digitalbeachbum wrote:

That is a prototype apple picking robot. So they are looking for investment capital. So ten years from now they MIGHT have one or two orchards using the machines.

That excludes all the other produce which would need illegals, we are talking hundreds of different fruits and vegetables.

Long after Hillary's grand children children's, maybe then we would be able to get rid of illegals and replace them with robots but you'll never get all the growers to use those machines. Humans will still be better at picking.

So if US citizens design and build robots to pick fruit, doesn't that count as Americans picking fruit? But they may not get the chance to do that because it is cheaper to pay 10 Mexicans than one American robot engineer.

But the reasons Mexicans can do it so cheap are they pay no taxes and they send their money to Mexico rather than spend it in USA, it is much cheaper to support a family in Mexico. How does that help the US?

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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From past articles:

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

That is a prototype apple picking robot. So they are looking for investment capital. So ten years from now they MIGHT have one or two orchards using the machines.

That excludes all the other produce which would need illegals, we are talking hundreds of different fruits and vegetables.

Long after Hillary's grand children children's, maybe then we would be able to get rid of illegals and replace them with robots but you'll never get all the growers to use those machines. Humans will still be better at picking.

So if US citizens design and build robots to pick fruit, doesn't that count as Americans picking fruit? But they may not get the chance to do that because it is cheaper to pay 10 Mexicans than one American robot engineer.

But the reasons Mexicans can do it so cheap are they pay no taxes and they send their money to Mexico rather than spend it in USA, it is much cheaper to support a family in Mexico. How does that help the US?

It will take 4 automatic production mahines to match 1 worker. (But that's wasn't  computor operated). Sometime (years maybe) later- it will take two computor machines to do the work of 1 person. Sometime later- it will take a computor to do the work of 2 workers. Again- A computor operated system will be an asset to the worker. Ok---again--today. An assembly line of computor operated machines will replace all workers on the assembly line.

Get this--China with 1.3 billion people is installing computor operated factories, as if they don't have enough laborers.

We've gone from machines helping workers to remove fatique and injuries to being the workers.  

If this is worth anything to anyone.

 

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EXC wrote:digitalbeachbum

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

That is a prototype apple picking robot. So they are looking for investment capital. So ten years from now they MIGHT have one or two orchards using the machines.

That excludes all the other produce which would need illegals, we are talking hundreds of different fruits and vegetables.

Long after Hillary's grand children children's, maybe then we would be able to get rid of illegals and replace them with robots but you'll never get all the growers to use those machines. Humans will still be better at picking.

So if US citizens design and build robots to pick fruit, doesn't that count as Americans picking fruit? But they may not get the chance to do that because it is cheaper to pay 10 Mexicans than one American robot engineer.

But the reasons Mexicans can do it so cheap are they pay no taxes and they send their money to Mexico rather than spend it in USA, it is much cheaper to support a family in Mexico. How does that help the US?

There are roughly 11 million undocumentated workers in the US. Of that there are 60% of them are Mexican.

The average estimated wages for a undocumented Mexican work is $21,000

Of that, they spend about 20% of it to send back home. 25% on food, clothes. 25% on housing and then 20% on travel. Only 10% of their wages are saved and many of them try to buy homes through several means.

They pay taxes already on the food, clothes, gas, parts, etc.

The only item they don't pay taxes on is that 20% they usually send home. However just speaking about Mexican undocumentated workers (because it took me about 30 minutes to find this information on the various "Mexican undocumented worker websites&quotEye-wink, I'm not going to post the rest of them because I'm short on time.

I find it ridiculous to consider the 6.5 million Mexican workers for paying taxes on their roughly 20% of diddly-squat. However people like Donald Trump who supposedly makes gobs of money pays near 0% on taxes (and he has done so in the past).

I have no idea how much Donald Trump makes so I can't even begin to estimate what he should pay in taxes

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:EXC

digitalbeachbum wrote:

EXC wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

That is a prototype apple picking robot. So they are looking for investment capital. So ten years from now they MIGHT have one or two orchards using the machines.

That excludes all the other produce which would need illegals, we are talking hundreds of different fruits and vegetables.

Long after Hillary's grand children children's, maybe then we would be able to get rid of illegals and replace them with robots but you'll never get all the growers to use those machines. Humans will still be better at picking.

So if US citizens design and build robots to pick fruit, doesn't that count as Americans picking fruit? But they may not get the chance to do that because it is cheaper to pay 10 Mexicans than one American robot engineer.

But the reasons Mexicans can do it so cheap are they pay no taxes and they send their money to Mexico rather than spend it in USA, it is much cheaper to support a family in Mexico. How does that help the US?

There are roughly 11 million undocumentated workers in the US. Of that there are 60% of them are Mexican.

The average estimated wages for a undocumented Mexican work is $21,000

Of that, they spend about 20% of it to send back home. 25% on food, clothes. 25% on housing and then 20% on travel. Only 10% of their wages are saved and many of them try to buy homes through several means.

They pay taxes already on the food, clothes, gas, parts, etc.

The only item they don't pay taxes on is that 20% they usually send home. However just speaking about Mexican undocumentated workers (because it took me about 30 minutes to find this information on the various "Mexican undocumented worker websites&quotEye-wink, I'm not going to post the rest of them because I'm short on time.

I find it ridiculous to consider the 6.5 million Mexican workers for paying taxes on their roughly 20% of diddly-squat. However people like Donald Trump who supposedly makes gobs of money pays near 0% on taxes (and he has done so in the past).

I have no idea how much Donald Trump makes so I can't even begin to estimate what he should pay in taxes

 

Food largely is not taxed. They don't pay income or SSI taxes. As would the American they take a job from.

If they are paying rent and buying housed, this drives up demand and prices for these which is bad for America's working poor. More people is bad for environment.

Plus more people there is extra expenditures for police, prisions, schools, roads, ....

There are millions of homeless and millions on welfare. I see no benefit in allowing in more people that will soon be in these categories.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Even if the estimated number

Even if the estimated number of illegals is 20 million, they aren't going to have much impact on the services you mention. Police don't spend much more because most illegals are terrified of breaking the law, and simply don't do it. Prisons are completely unaffected because illegals just get deported, not imprisoned. Schools aren't particularly affected because illegals go to the poorest schools with the least resources, and your education system is shit anyway. Roads aren't affected because illegals can't afford a car.

Meanwhile all these people pay millions in taxes on necessities and desirable products every year, and the vast majority of them work. They don't get welfare, they aren't homeless. Those are born and raised Americans, not illegal immigrants.

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EXC wrote: Food largely is

EXC wrote:

Food largely is not taxed. They don't pay income or SSI taxes. As would the American they take a job from.

If they are paying rent and buying housed, this drives up demand and prices for these which is bad for America's working poor. More people is bad for environment.

Plus more people there is extra expenditures for police, prisions, schools, roads, ....

There are millions of homeless and millions on welfare. I see no benefit in allowing in more people that will soon be in these categories.

The word "largely" is a improper word to use.

It varies slightly from state to state, but here is an example of NY

https://www.tax.ny.gov/pubs_and_bulls/tg_bulletins/st/listings_of_taxable_and_exempt_food.htm

I have found that food you are going to eat instantly, such as McDonalds is taxed, but if I go to the supermarket to buy a can of peas, no.

 

LOL - they don't take jobs from Americans. NO AMERICAN WANTS TO PICK PRODUCE. NO ONE.

LOL - The housing market is not controlled by illegal immigrants.

I'll agree in some circumstances but remember that the Census is what determines the budgets. Illegals are not counted in the Census.

Illegal immigrants spend money our economy. They buy gas. They buy food. They buy houses. The homeless don't spend a lot of money and they don't contribute by providing cheap services. The homeless are vampires to society. 

 

 


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Vastet wrote:Even if the

Vastet wrote:
Even if the estimated number of illegals is 20 million, they aren't going to have much impact on the services you mention. Police don't spend much more because most illegals are terrified of breaking the law, and simply don't do it. Prisons are completely unaffected because illegals just get deported, not imprisoned. Schools aren't particularly affected because illegals go to the poorest schools with the least resources, and your education system is shit anyway. Roads aren't affected because illegals can't afford a car. Meanwhile all these people pay millions in taxes on necessities and desirable products every year, and the vast majority of them work. They don't get welfare, they aren't homeless. Those are born and raised Americans, not illegal immigrants.

Awesome!


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digitalbeachbum wrote:LOL -

digitalbeachbum wrote:

LOL - they don't take jobs from Americans. NO AMERICAN WANTS TO PICK PRODUCE. NO ONE.

For someone that that thinks I'm the racist, this seems like a racist statement. This sounds like the old South, where they need blacks to pick the cotton, while the master race is too good for that. Why are whites so special?

I've worked on compents used in strawberry sorting. If someone want to pay me to design compents to pick fruit, I'll do it. I'm willing to do it, if a business will pay me. Hell I pick the fruit by hand if the price is right. But you're OK with allowing corpations pay starvation wages.

If we cut out welfare payments, what are Americans going to say I'll starve rather than pick fruit? Why not make the homeless work these jobs and provide them with a place to live?

BTW, I LOL at this notion that all Americans will just starve to death without an open border.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

LOL - The housing market is not controlled by illegal immigrants.

There is thing called supply and demand in economics. When a home is rented to an illegal it is no longer available to a citizen. So this is a reason why we have millions of homeless citizens.

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Even if the estimated number of illegals is 20 million, they aren't going to have much impact on the services you mention. Police don't spend much more because most illegals are terrified of breaking the law, and simply don't do it. Prisons are completely unaffected because illegals just get deported, not imprisoned. Schools aren't particularly affected because illegals go to the poorest schools with the least resources, and your education system is shit anyway. Roads aren't affected because illegals can't afford a car. Meanwhile all these people pay millions in taxes on necessities and desirable products every year, and the vast majority of them work. They don't get welfare, they aren't homeless. Those are born and raised Americans, not illegal immigrants.

Awesome!

Wrong on every point.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/undocumented-immigrants-increasingly-filling-arizona-prisons/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2...

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-01-01-public-housing_N.htm

They have no fear of being deported because they can just sneak back in. Deportation is like a free trip to go home for a while.

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EXC wrote: For someone that

EXC wrote:

For someone that that thinks I'm the racist, this seems like a racist statement. This sounds like the old South, where they need blacks to pick the cotton, while the master race is too good for that. Why are whites so special?

I've worked on compents used in strawberry sorting. If someone want to pay me to design compents to pick fruit, I'll do it. I'm willing to do it, if a business will pay me. Hell I pick the fruit by hand if the price is right. But you're OK with allowing corpations pay starvation wages.

If we cut out welfare payments, what are Americans going to say I'll starve rather than pick fruit? Why not make the homeless work these jobs and provide them with a place to live?

BTW, I LOL at this notion that all Americans will just starve to death without an open border.

There is thing called supply and demand in economics. When a home is rented to an illegal it is no longer available to a citizen. So this is a reason why we have millions of homeless citizens. 

I'm no racist. I'm a realist. No white people want to pick oranges in Florida. 

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/eve-samples-think-americans-want-to-pick-oranges-think-again-ep-387092302-345141022.html

It's fucking back breaking work for piss wages.

 

And here is another thing about the produce/farm industry. They are required to only "ask for papers" not verify them.

So the industry supports these illegals because they want to keep the prices low to increase their profits.

Get rid of the illegals the price of every thing goes up.

 

Are you a loon? Getting the homeless to pick produce? Get the fuck out of here.

 

Your last statement isn't even worth responding. It's dumb, uninformed, unsubstantiated, hyperbole.

 


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EXC wrote: Wrong on every

Your articles are baloney. The 1st one doesn't show that the illegals have contributed to overflowing prisons, only that the number of illegals sentenced has risen, but so has the entire population of incarcerated individuals.

The 2nd article. The 37% of those sentenced include those who where then deported for being illegal and committed no crime except for being caught as an illegal. They fail to mention that in the article and conveniently left out the numbers for it.

The 3rd article doesn't load. I can't read it.

I'd like to see the number of illegals, then the number of actual crimes by illegals (excluding being illegal) then compare it to crimes of whites, blacks and asian then convert it to per capita. The only way to actually know any thing is to convert it to per capita. It's like the gun loons who point out that Australia's violent crimes with weapons has gone up but when you compare it to per capita the actually numbers have dramatically gone down.


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EXC wrote:Wrong on every

EXC wrote:
Wrong on every point.

No, that's you.

Every one of which will be deported upon serving sentence, and as prisons are a profit industry in the US, those prisoners will make Arizona money before they get kicked out. Not to mention the article fails to back up your argument.

Same shit, same pile.

Lol you'd shut down public housing altogether, and you'd say any American who tries to get on public housing is a lazy bum, so you don't get to bitch about Americans not getting public housing. Especially since public housing has nothing to do with my argument anyway..

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Vastet wrote: Lol you'd shut

Vastet wrote:
Lol you'd shut down public housing altogether, and you'd say any American who tries to get on public housing is a lazy bum, so you don't get to bitch about Americans not getting public housing. Especially since public housing has nothing to do with my argument anyway..

No, I think it's pretty smart to get free stuff if you can get it. I just don't want it on my dime. So I don't think they are lazy bums, pretty smart to take advantage of American taxpayer.

So I pay for public housing for illegals.  Someone that breaks our immigration laws is also going to break the law and not report their income.

Americans go on welfare cause it pays better than picking fruit because. And a handful of rich get richer on the deal. All on my dime. I should be happy with that?

BTW, public housing should be part of welfare to work programs. Paying people to do nothing is your game, but it ends in society going to shit.

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EXC wrote:Vastet wrote: Lol

EXC wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Lol you'd shut down public housing altogether, and you'd say any American who tries to get on public housing is a lazy bum, so you don't get to bitch about Americans not getting public housing. Especially since public housing has nothing to do with my argument anyway..

No, I think it's pretty smart to get free stuff if you can get it. I just don't want it on my dime. So I don't think they are lazy bums, pretty smart to take advantage of American taxpayer.

So I pay for public housing for illegals.  Someone that breaks our immigration laws is also going to break the law and not report their income.

Americans go on welfare cause it pays better than picking fruit because. And a handful of rich get richer on the deal. All on my dime. I should be happy with that?

BTW, public housing should be part of welfare to work programs. Paying people to do nothing is your game, but it ends in society going to shit.

So is it OK that the banks were bailed out on our dime? What about the car industry? How many American companies or even the government, lobbyists etc etc etc all get free stuff off the American tax payer. Maybe if we would fix the system which feeds the rich and robs the poor we might actually have a better foundation to have services in place for the many rather than the few.


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Quote:No, I think it's

Quote:
No, I think it's pretty smart to get free stuff if you can get it. I just don't want it on my dime. So I don't think they are lazy bums, pretty smart to take advantage of American taxpayer.

This has nothing to do with the discussion. Even if illegal immigrants are taking up public housing, you're getting more than your moneys worth in cheap labour. It doesn't cost you anything, even if you choose to be biased and focus on expense while ignoring income and discount. None of these illegal immigrants are getting rich, they stay at poverty levels. Which is why they get public housing in the first place.

Quote:
Americans go on welfare cause it pays better than picking fruit
.

Bullshit. There isn't a state or province in the entire North West hemisphere that gives welfare recipients enough for rent, let alone everything else. You can keep picking fruit until the expenses are paid, even if it's shit work for low pay.

Quote:
BTW, public housing should be part of welfare to work programs. Paying people to do nothing is your game, but it ends in society going to shit.

Work for welfare requires bureaucracy, and lots of it. I thought you wanted to shrink government.

And your infinitely repeating strawman is still a strawman. I've never advocated for getting everything while contributing nothing, and I never will.

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Vastet wrote: Work for

Vastet wrote:
Work for welfare requires bureaucracy, and lots of it. I thought you wanted to shrink government.

More like shrink my taxes. How we get there, I don't care.

No reason why welfare to work can't pay for itself. Have the fruit growers pay citizens instead of illegals.

The big problem is that government officials can't be fired when they don't do their jobs. When government fucks up, they raise taxes. It is a system of perverse rewards. Government in its present form is welfare for public officials and unions.

Haven't you said in the past government should guarantee everyone the basics(food, shelter, healthcare) no matter what? Even if they refuse to work at all?

What exactly is your social contract then?

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EXC wrote:No reason why

EXC wrote:
No reason why welfare to work can't pay for itself. Have the fruit growers pay citizens instead of illegals.

That still won't get everyone off welfare. Probably half the people on welfare already have a job. Wages will need to increase and jobs will have to be created to get all capable people working.

EXC wrote:
The big problem is that government officials can't be fired when they don't do their jobs.

They can be fired here. Even if they're in a union. The way it should be.

EXC wrote:
Haven't you said in the past government should guarantee everyone the basics(food, shelter, healthcare) no matter what? Even if they refuse to work at all?

No.

EXC wrote:
What exactly is your social contract then?

The government takes over all commerce, all people are drafted into service, the party system is eliminated, education is mandatory and free, jobs are earned via merit. People who refuse to work are imprisoned and forced to work or deported, unless some citizen(s) charitably volunteer to absorb the expense. Only if a citizen is willing to work but there is no job available would someone be entitled to basic living without working.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


digitalbeachbum
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Vastet wrote:The government

Vastet wrote:
The government takes over all commerce, all people are drafted into service, the party system is eliminated, education is mandatory and free, jobs are earned via merit. People who refuse to work are imprisoned and forced to work or deported, unless some citizen(s) charitably volunteer to absorb the expense. Only if a citizen is willing to work but there is no job available would someone be entitled to basic living without working.

I'd find ways to expand the middle class, shrink the wealthy and poor.


Vastet
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My methods would do all of

My methods would do all of that. Elimination of private commerce into a public/social system would be a deathblow to the rich. There'd never be a millionaire again. Noone in all of history has ever earned that kind of money & power. They stole it or were given it, they never earned it.

As for being poor, that would be a choice.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.