What's the deal

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What's the deal

From what I unnerstan being a US Marine myself, if the US turned the entire US Marine Corps, and the British Royal Marines, loose on ISIS the problem would be solved in less then 30 days. What gives. Maybe it's those unusual complexities that are the problem. Well hells bells, Marines are used to handleing complexities. The main complexity I see is---what are all those complexities. They got gunz---we got gunz. That doesn't seem very complex to me.

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There are politics involved.

There are politics involved. This isn't just the military saying "let's go in and eliminate them".

You are talking about going in to Syria and Iraq and even parts of some other countries. You can't just load up your troops and go invade (but that is what they did in Iraq).


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Understood.

digitalbeachbum wrote:

There are politics involved. This isn't just the military saying "let's go in and eliminate them".

You are talking about going in to Syria and Iraq and even parts of some other countries. You can't just load up your troops and go invade (but that is what they did in Iraq).

If the US is over there helping, then the question becomes, how long is the US going to help them fail. If drones can be flown anywhere, then troops can be put anywhere. After 2 years 100,000 can't be taken care of. Earth quakes do better then that. According to GW Bush, they can run but they can't hide. So, what happened. I say, turn the whole works over to an 0311  Lance Corporal and watch what happens. And get the president out of his way.

 

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The US empire would crumble

The US empire would crumble into dust overnight if the US committed everything to overthrowing ISIS. It is Russia and China who have controlling capabilities in this war. The US can't do shit.

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I meant

Vastet wrote:
The US empire would crumble into dust overnight if the US committed everything to overthrowing ISIS. It is Russia and China who have controlling capabilities in this war. The US can't do shit.
Turn the US Marines loose on them. But I agree with you to a reasonable degree (what the heck is a reasonable degree). The US is bound up in it's "US Exceptionalism" and high on itself, but really no better then Russian or Chinese militaries. From what I can make of it, if the US used the tactics it is now during the 2nd WW we'd still be fighting the 2nd WW. My question is--- Is this a plan that continuiously fails, or is this a continuious planed failure to keep the industrial complex busy by replacing the cold war with something wlse. According to the Neo Cons the war against terrorism is perpetual war, or 100 years as it's supposed to be the US Century. The only logical way that can be is by "planned failure". It can't possibly take 100 years to kick the asses off 100,000 armed guys. What's wrong with this picture. They send a drone over----vaporize the ISIS leader--- in less then 24 hours the news media announces who their new leader is. Let's get real here. Smiling wink wink

 

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Well lets look at the

Well lets look at the situation in a bit of depth.

It really started with Saddam. US & UK go in, Iraq military literally crumbles without a fight, Saddam is found in a hole and executed, Iraq military is castrated and hamstrung. Unsurprisingly, rebels have little trouble defeating them in the aftermath and take large swaths of Iraq.

Saddam led a fairly brutal regime of baath muslims that kept sunni and shia muslims in check. With him dead, shia and sunni were free to kill each other again and civil war began.

Iran attempts to bolster the shia while Saudi Arabia bolster the sunni. Iran has other big problems and can only do so much. Saudi Arabia has no trouble at all, and the sunni ISIS is formed.

Then America, not satisfied with failure in Afghanistan and Iraq, started looking at one of only a couple baath nations remaining: Syria. Do everything short of a massive invasion to get rid of Assad. But Assad has friends Saddam didn't, and the US isn't so powerful that it can take on Russia or China, let alone both of them. Especially in an age where American imperialism has rewoken the Russian and Chinese bears and both countries are now behaving exactly like the US does. Russia seizes air authority over much of Syria in the wake of Turkey's egotistical stupidity, and now Russia effectively owns Syria and its airspace.

So the US can no longer engage ISIS full force without Russia's permission. Russia has anti air guns placed which can turn any invading aircraft into embers. With China standing more or less in Russia's corner due to its own conflicts with the US in the China sea, the US would have to go to war with Russia and China in order to really take the fight to ISIS.

The US cannot win that war. The people are too stupid to know that but most of the leaders aren't. So all the US will do is strike teams and weapons trading and the odd drone.

From China and Russia's point of view, the US literally birthed, grew, supplied, and trained ISIS. Because the US literally did exactly that. So the US can't be trusted to fix anything. The US went in gung ho killing shia and supporting sunni, and in the great irony that ended up happening; the animal the US was feeding turned around and bit the feeding hand.

In every possible measure, from politics to economics to religion to history, the US has yet to do anything except make things worse. Oh sure we saw womens faces and music in markets for a couple weeks. Those women are dead now though, and the music destroyed in bon fires. In addition, now the people also lack water, power, and food. All things that were stable when Saddam was still in charge, keeping the sunni and shia from fighting each other.

So neither Russia nor China want the US in the area making things yet worse, and as a result the US can't do shit.

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I say

Vastet wrote:
Well lets look at the situation in a bit of depth. It really started with Saddam. US & UK go in, Iraq military literally crumbles without a fight, Saddam is found in a hole and executed, Iraq military is castrated and hamstrung. Unsurprisingly, rebels have little trouble defeating them in the aftermath and take large swaths of Iraq. Saddam led a fairly brutal regime of baath muslims that kept sunni and shia muslims in check. With him dead, shia and sunni were free to kill each other again and civil war began. Iran attempts to bolster the shia while Saudi Arabia bolster the sunni. Iran has other big problems and can only do so much. Saudi Arabia has no trouble at all, and the sunni ISIS is formed. Then America, not satisfied with failure in Afghanistan and Iraq, started looking at one of only a couple baath nations remaining: Syria. Do everything short of a massive invasion to get rid of Assad. But Assad has friends Saddam didn't, and the US isn't so powerful that it can take on Russia or China, let alone both of them. Especially in an age where American imperialism has rewoken the Russian and Chinese bears and both countries are now behaving exactly like the US does. Russia seizes air authority over much of Syria in the wake of Turkey's egotistical stupidity, and now Russia effectively owns Syria and its airspace. So the US can no longer engage ISIS full force without Russia's permission. Russia has anti air guns placed which can turn any invading aircraft into embers. With China standing more or less in Russia's corner due to its own conflicts with the US in the China sea, the US would have to go to war with Russia and China in order to really take the fight to ISIS. The US cannot win that war. The people are too stupid to know that but most of the leaders aren't. So all the US will do is strike teams and weapons trading and the odd drone. From China and Russia's point of view, the US literally birthed, grew, supplied, and trained ISIS. Because the US literally did exactly that. So the US can't be trusted to fix anything. The US went in gung ho killing shia and supporting sunni, and in the great irony that ended up happening; the animal the US was feeding turned around and bit the feeding hand. In every possible measure, from politics to economics to religion to history, the US has yet to do anything except make things worse. Oh sure we saw womens faces and music in markets for a couple weeks. Those women are dead now though, and the music destroyed in bon fires. In addition, now the people also lack water, power, and food. All things that were stable when Saddam was still in charge, keeping the sunni and shia from fighting each other. So neither Russia nor China want the US in the area making things yet worse, and as a result the US can't do shit.

You are highly accurate. But, applying a bit of logic to US military presently there's no reason for this war to be existing. The whole process doesn't make sense. I agree, there's no way they can win this. They say there's no military solution to the problem but the military is the only option they have, or, are useing. The idea of turninh the Marines loose is my way of saying--there's something out of whack here. If theyre's a no win deal, then there has to be another  reason to be there.marine  General Chesty Puller, Marine General Smedly Butler (google him) and and Sargent of Marines John Basilone (Marine Corps heros) have to be spinning in their graves on this deal. So here we are, with no way to win anything or anyplace, and got a hold of something that can't be let go of, and brag about exceptionalism while carying on with the stupidity. There has to be a differnt reason for this deal other then just fighting a few terrorists. There's no logical reason to be there. Apparently what we have here is just another cold war---that they won't admit to. (by the way, they didn't accept the western short skirts for the ladies either)

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It's all PR bullshit. The US

It's all PR bullshit. The US media makes ISIS look dangerous, the US people demand protection, the US government does enough to sell the idea it is protecting the country. It's exactly the same song and dance that has been going on since the conclusion of WWII: the last time there was a legitimate reason to go to war.

ISIS is not particularly dangerous. Any highway on Earth is more dangerous than ISIS. Hells Angels, Mexican drug cartels, the remains of the mafias of the 70's, all these are as dangerous or more dangerous than ISIS. Mexican drug cartels in particular have beheaded hundreds of times as many people as ISIS has, and has been posting videos of it since Saddam was still in power when ISIS didn't exist.

If confronted by both organisations, I'd run to ISIS. There's at least a chance I could pretend to convert to islam and keep my head. With the drug cartel there's no chance in hell.

The only real solution is the same as it has always been: police action. ISIS is a criminal organisation. It is not a nation. It will never become a nation. It is a bunch of criminals doing criminal things, Treat them as such and everything becomes much simpler. China and Russia are infinitely more likely to collaborate on police action than military action, so those obstacles vanish. You are less likely to be labelled invader by locals and thus ISIS won't get the same recruitment numbers they see when a country tries to tell another country what to do by force. It makes locking up finances easier, it makes cooperaton between countries less frictional, and it doesn't require you take custody of a country until such time as it becomes stable enough to let it work its own future out because you aren't toppling the government while you're there.

Or just wait until the middle east countries who have hundreds of thousands of soldiers get tired of ISIS and walk through them like a hot knife through butter, because ISIS doesn't have a tenth of the military might in the region. Israel could probably take ISIS out by itself if it were sufficiently motivated. Get Turkey and Saudi Arabia and Iran and Egypt working together and ISIS would vanish in a week or less.

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We'd best be careful here.

We may come under the US anti free speech campaign. There could come a knocK on your door.  Heeloo, are you Vastet---yes I am-----we're with the FBI, we'd like you come with us for psychological evaluation---Err why---- You've been on the internet stateing an affilliation for terrorism, don't be afraid, this is just a routine arrest---now wait a minute---put your hands behind you back please and turn around, thank you---hey, I'm no terrorist----- please come with us peacfully, we have not yet determined whethe or not there is gounds to permenently retain you, but we'll find something,,,, sooner or later, anyone with their own personal  confictions has to be a nutcase.         (Be careful there Buddy)

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Goody

The insanity in clevland is about over, so now maybe we can get back to some sort of reality. They brought up that Americans want to be safe "again"----from crime and ----yup----ISIS. Great guns gosh almighty jumpin jehosaphat. Where did ISIS get all those aircraft cariiers, atomic submarines, battle wagons, intercontinental missles, troop carrier, and millions of troops to come here and take over the US to install radical Islamic law. The US citizens have enough firepower on their own to shoot the shit out of the whole works. I don't know of a single person that is afraid of ISIS. If I want to get some laughs I 'd go the bar and ask if any there are afraid of terrorists.

But alas, we have to put up with the whole works again next week. What we have here is the two least likely to win an election, and the only way one of them can win is if they are both running for the position. Crimony, think about that. 

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I'm Canadian. The FBI

I'm Canadian. The FBI doesn't concern me. Canada is a lot further away from becoming a fascist police state than most western nations these days, so neither does CSIS (our version of the FBI) concern me. As long as I'm not planning to attack something I have nothing to fear.

I know at least one person who is terrified of ISIS. I don't know her well, and don't have the opportunity to figure out what her stake is, but she's definitely terrified of ISIS.

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The US can

Vastet wrote:
I'm Canadian. The FBI doesn't concern me. Canada is a lot further away from becoming a fascist police state than most western nations these days, so neither does CSIS (our version of the FBI) concern me. As long as I'm not planning to attack something I have nothing to fear. I know at least one person who is terrified of ISIS. I don't know her well, and don't have the opportunity to figure out what her stake is, but she's definitely terrified of ISIS.

Coerse the Canadian government into handleing the problem (namely yourself) for the US. The Federal Bureau of Instigations can get a extradition order--and you're on your way South. You should welcome and look forward to the opportunity. As they psychoanalyse you---you can do the same to them, and tell them what's wrong with themselves. They can't psychoanalyse me---I aready know what's wrong with them--and they would know I know.

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You aren't going to get an

You aren't going to get an extradition to succeed without credible evidence that I broke a law that Canada acknowledges as valid. Considering how many thousands of American refugees (draft dodgers included) have come here over the decades without ever being sent home, there's absolutely no chance of an extradition on me unless I do something like attack the US. Making a few comments on the internet isn't sufficient, unless those comments are threats against the president or something equally stupid.

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ISIS would not be a threat

ISIS would not be a threat if the US and Europe would close their borders. But the rich and powerful need access to endless supply of cheap labor and ignorant voters to increase their wealth and power, so we have open borders.

The militaries are bought and paid to protect the status quo. Just follow the money if you want to know why things are the way they are.

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Now wait a minute here

If you're not with us you're with the terrorists. Smiling The US doesn't need any proof anymore, all that's needed is suspision. Bear in mind here. when a guy over there is blown out of his surrounding flesh the news media refere to the "victim" as a "suspected" terrorist, "suspected", didja notice that. You can be exed off the street for being declared to be a nutcase. People alredy have been nabbed for psycho evaluation--it's on the net. I'd bet there's US drones over Canada. Look out fella, the US don't need Canadas permission. Don't loose sight of the fact that the US is exceptional like the Roman Empire. Don't you know the US believes that inside of every person there's an American trying to get out. Keep those tenney shoes on and watch yer back.

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Old Seer wrote: Don't you

Old Seer wrote:

 Don't you know the US believes that inside of every person there's an American trying to get out. 

It's called the fat gene.

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Excellent.

EXC wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

 Don't you know the US believes that inside of every person there's an American trying to get out. 

It's called the fat gene.

Har har har Smiling

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Old Seer wrote:If you're not

Old Seer wrote:

If you're not with us you're with the terrorists. Smiling The US doesn't need any proof anymore, all that's needed is suspision. Bear in mind here. when a guy over there is blown out of his surrounding flesh the news media refere to the "victim" as a "suspected" terrorist, "suspected", didja notice that. You can be exed off the street for being declared to be a nutcase. People alredy have been nabbed for psycho evaluation--it's on the net. I'd bet there's US drones over Canada. Look out fella, the US don't need Canadas permission. Don't loose sight of the fact that the US is exceptional like the Roman Empire. Don't you know the US believes that inside of every person there's an American trying to get out. Keep those tenney shoes on and watch yer back.

You want a war where it's everyone vs the US and the US gets smashed into rubble, illegally seizing private citizens innocent of wrong doing in foreign allied nations is the way to go. The US doesn't have the balls to go after Snowden even though he released classified data, they certainly aren't coming for me for making criticisms.

The US doesn't have the reach portrayed in its film industry. And even if it did I'm by no stretch the only one who says what I say. There are thousands of people with more power and resources who would be bigger targets. I keep a low enough profile that if some kind of Hitleresque purge were to occur, I'd have more than enough warning to get out of the way.

I don't need to watch what I say unless I become a celebrity or a politician or a representative of some company.

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EXC wrote:ISIS would not be

EXC wrote:

ISIS would not be a threat if the US and Europe would close their borders. But the rich and powerful need access to endless supply of cheap labor and ignorant voters to increase their wealth and power, so we have open borders.

The militaries are bought and paid to protect the status quo. Just follow the money if you want to know why things are the way they are.

ISIS isn't a threat regardless. There are more children dead from school shootings in the US than there have been deaths from terrorists actually affiliated with ISIS around the world. There hasn't been a real threat since Hitler, and I'm not ignoring the Soviet Union or China or North Korea or Iraq or anything else. No power since Hitler actively attempted to conquer the world by war, and no power since Hitler had the potential to actually pull it off. That was a real war, where millions of people died in a single day on multiple occasions. This ISIS joke doesn't even have a hundred thousand soldiers. They would all combined have vanished in minutes of fighting in WWII.

Domestic terrorists are much more dangerous, but there's nothing you can do when some random person who's generally thought of as harmless suddenly builds bombs or grabs a gun and kills people. Foreign terrorist organisations can actually be tracked. The information necessary to prevent 9/11 was in the hands of the government months before it happened. The government simply failed to act. People who suddenly unload a gun in public aren't remotely so easy to see coming.

Even so, as a real threat: terrorists don't qualify. They kill at most a few thousand people in a year, and they don't usually even get that high. In fact, terrorism was much worse back in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, but even then the actual statistics show their irrelevance. There are dozens of more mundane ways to get killed that are much more likely to actually happen. The only reason terrorism is effective at all is because of the spectacle put on by the media. If terrorist attacks were relegated to backpage news instead of headlines, it wouldn't be nearly as effective.

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Vastet wrote:Old Seer

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

If you're not with us you're with the terrorists. Smiling The US doesn't need any proof anymore, all that's needed is suspision. Bear in mind here. when a guy over there is blown out of his surrounding flesh the news media refere to the "victim" as a "suspected" terrorist, "suspected", didja notice that. You can be exed off the street for being declared to be a nutcase. People alredy have been nabbed for psycho evaluation--it's on the net. I'd bet there's US drones over Canada. Look out fella, the US don't need Canadas permission. Don't loose sight of the fact that the US is exceptional like the Roman Empire. Don't you know the US believes that inside of every person there's an American trying to get out. Keep those tenney shoes on and watch yer back.

You want a war where it's everyone vs the US and the US gets smashed into rubble, illegally seizing private citizens innocent of wrong doing in foreign allied nations is the way to go. The US doesn't have the balls to go after Snowden even though he released classified data, they certainly aren't coming for me for making criticisms. The US doesn't have the reach portrayed in its film industry. And even if it did I'm by no stretch the only one who says what I say. There are thousands of people with more power and resources who would be bigger targets. I keep a low enough profile that if some kind of Hitleresque purge were to occur, I'd have more than enough warning to get out of the way. I don't need to watch what I say unless I become a celebrity or a politician or a representative of some company.

I hear ya. The idea of the Neo cons to build US supremecy in the world is an abject failiure. That brings me to the reason of my OP. Terrorism is an excuse to keep war going for economy's sake. Also my OP point--turn 50000 0311 Combat US Marine Grunts loose and the problem is solved. It's obvious they don't want to solve the problem. They can do everything else but put troops on the groung which would take care of matters in a hurry. If they're not going to use the solution then there's an alternative reason for being there and it's not terrorisim.

Over there in England (from the BBC News) The parents That lost sons in Iraq are highly pissed and want answers. An investigation showed Blair spouting lie after lie after lie, and nothing matches his war cliams. Blair was nothing more the a war puppet for the US. Floks here in the US are seeing the same. This deal has come home to roost As I predicted on a USMC forumwhen it started 14 years ago. It was only a matter of time and it looks like time is up. Abe Lincoln said if you recall---you can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Bush and Cheny were stupid enough not to heed the advice.  People are getting to a point where the Gov had better stop it's nonsense, the people are catching on. Just wait until the marine that lost his legs catches on to the schrade--Holy Shit. The are US Marines right now highly pissed that Faluja was taken over by ISIS. They now know they've been had, they lost buddies for nothing.

They actually put the bag on a Psyciatrist who spoke out---a psychatrist????? The idea is for others to see and be afraid it'll be done to them . It's a way of getting round free speech rights---It shuts people up, that's the aim of it. Well hey, I'm glad to know you're a worthless dumbass that the US government wouldn't bother with. Smiling  Smiling

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Old Seer wrote:Terrorism is

Old Seer wrote:
Terrorism is an excuse to keep war going for economy's sake. 

Yup. the military is largely a welfare agency. Just try to shut down a military base in a battleground state, can not be done.

Obama could take out the leadership of ISIL anytime he pleased, that would be pretty much the end of them. But there is an unwritten rule against either side doing assasinations. Bin Laden was only targeted after he attacked Washington, the first WTC attack was apparently not enough since it only targeted civilians. The whole reason for the 2nd gulf war was because someone in the Iraq military tried to assasinate Bush Sr. So W had to go after their military for breaking the only rule of war: protect the elites on both sides. Everything else is fair.

 

 

 

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There's no Grifter

EXC wrote:

Old Seer wrote:
Terrorism is an excuse to keep war going for economy's sake. 

Yup. the military is largely a welfare agency. Just try to shut down a military base in a battleground state, can not be done.

Obama could take out the leadership of ISIL anytime he pleased, that would be pretty much the end of them. But there is an unwritten rule against either side doing assasinations. Bin Laden was only targeted after he attacked Washington, the first WTC attack was apparently not enough since it only targeted civilians. The whole reason for the 2nd gulf war was because someone in the Iraq military tried to assasinate Bush Sr. So W had to go after their military for breaking the only rule of war: protect the elites on both sides. Everything else is fair.

 

 

 

better then a polititian. Promises, promises, and more promises to give something for nothing, but actually give nothing for something. Anyone could give tax money for anything, if the money's not theirs. Use the tax money to buy the people who paid the taxes.

 

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" Well hey, I'm glad to know

" Well hey, I'm glad to know you're a worthless dumbass that the US government wouldn't bother with."

Lol that's the brilliance of it. If shit ever hits the fan, the rich, powerful, and stupid people who agree with me will be rounded up and executed while I begin the counterattack.

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a prime eggzample

Vastet wrote:
" Well hey, I'm glad to know you're a worthless dumbass that the US government wouldn't bother with." Lol that's the brilliance of it. If shit ever hits the fan, the rich, powerful, and stupid people who agree with me will be rounded up and executed while I begin the counterattack.

Of, dumb, stupid, and ignorant can be logical.

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Being Russia

EXC wrote:

ISIS would not be a threat if the US and Europe would close their borders. But the rich and powerful need access to endless supply of cheap labor and ignorant voters to increase their wealth and power, so we have open borders.

The militaries are bought and paid to protect the status quo. Just follow the money if you want to know why things are the way they are.

is moving hither and thither we can stop killing floks in the Muddle East and get back to the cold war.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth