Satanic manifesto in Michigan: how Atheism is different from Satanism?

ManuAndres44
atheist
ManuAndres44's picture
Posts: 84
Joined: 2010-10-14
User is offlineOffline
Satanic manifesto in Michigan: how Atheism is different from Satanism?

 I've just watched the video in which the leaders of the "Satanic Temple" in Michigan gave a speech expressing their manifesto and ideas about what they believe and what they want to do in society. Among their proposals, some of the ones I remember the most were the separation of church and state, freedom of sexual expression and to demand the government something about health rights and birth control rights. In my opinion, those are some common points that Satanists and Atheists share. Though we atheists do not believe neither in a god or devil, which is the main difference between them and us, I'm still trying to understand if we Atheists have more things that make us different from Satanists. Which are the big differences between us aside the fact of not believing in Satan while they do? What's your opinion?

P.S. At least Satanists do not seem to try to convince us with arguments to believe in their goat deity...

Debate is the best way to share the knowledge


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4740
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
There are two types, one

There are two types, one which actually believes in a deity and those who practice being greedy, etc. but don't believe in the deity.

I believe there are too few to make a judgement on if they preach their belief. I would think that the most of them keep their mouths shut and don't go around professing their belief.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15462
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
ManuAndres44 wrote: I've

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 I've just watched the video in which the leaders of the "Satanic Temple" in Michigan gave a speech expressing their manifesto and ideas about what they believe and what they want to do in society. Among their proposals, some of the ones I remember the most were the separation of church and state, freedom of sexual expression and to demand the government something about health rights and birth control rights. In my opinion, those are some common points that Satanists and Atheists share. Though we atheists do not believe neither in a god or devil, which is the main difference between them and us, I'm still trying to understand if we Atheists have more things that make us different from Satanists. Which are the big differences between us aside the fact of not believing in Satan while they do? What's your opinion?

P.S. At least Satanists do not seem to try to convince us with arguments to believe in their goat deity...

It is superfluous crap. Secular law exists outside them trying to attach those concepts to a group. www.au.org is a multi religous org including atheists who are ACLU minded citizens. It is simply another attempt to compete with old woo by creating new woo. 

 

Our species ability to be cruel or comassonate is in our evolution.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4740
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote: ManuAndres44

Brian37 wrote:

ManuAndres44 wrote:

 I've just watched the video in which the leaders of the "Satanic Temple" in Michigan gave a speech expressing their manifesto and ideas about what they believe and what they want to do in society. Among their proposals, some of the ones I remember the most were the separation of church and state, freedom of sexual expression and to demand the government something about health rights and birth control rights. In my opinion, those are some common points that Satanists and Atheists share. Though we atheists do not believe neither in a god or devil, which is the main difference between them and us, I'm still trying to understand if we Atheists have more things that make us different from Satanists. Which are the big differences between us aside the fact of not believing in Satan while they do? What's your opinion?

P.S. At least Satanists do not seem to try to convince us with arguments to believe in their goat deity...

It is superfluous crap. Secular law exists outside them trying to attach those concepts to a group. www.au.org is a multi religious org including atheists who are ACLU minded citizens. It is simply another attempt to compete with old woo by creating new woo. 

 

Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution.

You don't have an on/off switch do you? You are hardwired to be argumentative?

 


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12896
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
And stupid and off topic too.

And stupid and off topic too.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
We consider

the idea of Satanism to be very rediculous. The only origin of the term that I know of is the bible. The bible Satan is a deciever, but,  a deceiever for a personal purpose. It gets down to --a person misleading others for self gratification. We don't see Satan as something seperste of one's person any more then we see God as seperate of one's person. Satan is confines within the conrext of God as understood to be good and evil, which equals the duality of God (ourselves). Satanism then originates from the side of God (one's own self) that is deceptive to gain favor with others when not deserved. Satan = lie, which is an ability that all have and use within the sphere of one's life. That would mean that Satanism is the will of a person to decieve for gains or to condition another to the will of the one decieving.

 IE- Re- JC----- Satan is the God of this world. That gives an insight to how he understands God--in this case, the opposite of truth/good. The term "Satan" has become twisted into all manner of meanings and is no longer the original biblical meaning. Todays Satanism doesn't fit the biblical meaning as it's nothing more then people's ability to fool each other. IE-If politics is a profession of deception then it in itself is Satanism.

Satanism to do good is contradictory, meaning- what is thought to be Satanism ---isn't. Who are the Satanists (if that's what they are) attempting to fool. If they're not attempting to fool anyone then they're not Satanists---at least in a biblical sense. Satanism is existing on what Satan isn't--it don't make sense. The Satan in the bible is Nimrod, who fooled the people of his region to follow him rather then remain natural. This is where (if you look in Blacks law dictionary) "artificial person" is derived from. A civilized person is created by civilization and is no longer considered natural person, because the child is brought up in the mandates of the state and removed from the natural self. Artificial person is a lie, because the state is based on a lie. The whole idea of Satanism exists on the misunderstanding of Satan.

BTW. there can be no such thing as "Satanistic" Atheism. Satanism is recognizing Satan as a remote person, and only exits as a false entity in the minds of those involved. It's Irrational. Any person reference other then one that resides within a physical brain cannot be a personage that exists.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
it's my understanding that

it's my understanding that the largest group of self-identified satanists is the church of satan, which states clearly that it is an organization devoted to secular values and freedom of expression, which does not believe in the existence of satan or any other supernatural being. they take satan as a symbol of rebellion against tyranny and recognition of one's self-worth. much like RRS in its heyday, they believe aggressive imagery and rhetoric, meant to shock the religious out of their complacency, is an effective method of promoting their values, which is another reason they choose to use the symbols of "traditional" satanism (which were all ascribed to the satanists by the christians to begin with). is it a religion, properly speaking? of course not, no more than is "pastafarianism." insisting on religious status for a group based on a figure they themselves affirm does not exist is just another way of pointing out the absurdity of the priveleges religious groups are accorded in the US.


it seems the "satanic temple" from this story is at least influenced by the church of satan, if not affiliated with it (the story doesn't interest me enough to find out). i see no evidence that they actually believe in the existence of satan. how does satanism differ from atheism? atheism is not an ideology. satanism is; i have outlined its positive content above. is satanism atheistic? well, the church of satan at least clearly is, by definition.


as for their methods, i think they're a bit silly, but their methods are no less valid than, say, the blasphemy challenge.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:It is simply

Brian37 wrote:
It is simply another attempt to compete with old woo by creating new woo. 

 

Our species ability to be cruel or comassonate is in our evolution.




so the flying spaghetti monster is "new woo"? because these satanists believe in satan exactly as much as pastafarians believe in the FSM. do you ever bother finding out about ANYTHING before you go off about it?


then again, you're the moron who classifies analytical philosophy as "woo." i think "woo" just means "anything Brian37 doesn't understand."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
That's a different view.

iwbiek wrote:
it's my understanding that the largest group of self-identified satanists is the church of satan, which states clearly that it is an organization devoted to secular values and freedom of expression, which does not believe in the existence of satan or any other supernatural being. they take satan as a symbol of rebellion against tyranny and recognition of one's self-worth. much like RRS in its heyday, they believe aggressive imagery and rhetoric, meant to shock the religious out of their complacency, is an effective method of promoting their values, which is another reason they choose to use the symbols of "traditional" satanism (which were all ascribed to the satanists by the christians to begin with). is it a religion, properly speaking? of course not, no more than is "pastafarianism." insisting on religious status for a group based on a figure they themselves affirm does not exist is just another way of pointing out the absurdity of the priveleges religious groups are accorded in the US.
it seems the "satanic temple" from this story is at least influenced by the church of satan, if not affiliated with it (the story doesn't interest me enough to find out). i see no evidence that they actually believe in the existence of satan. how does satanism differ from atheism? atheism is not an ideology. satanism is; i have outlined its positive content above. is satanism atheistic? well, the church of satan at least clearly is, by definition.
as for their methods, i think they're a bit silly, but their methods are no less valid than, say, the blasphemy challenge.
So, they're not really Satanists and only use the symbol without belief. I can understand that. The whole idea didn't make sense to me as presented.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
i mean, there ARE so-called

what do you mean they're not "really" satanists? if a person calls himself a satanist, he's a satanist, end of story. i mean, there ARE so-called "theistic satanists" who believe in the literal existence of some entity they identify as satan, but they are a very small minority among those who call themselves "satanists," and, afaik, they are not unified into any significantly sized organization. usually they're just gothy kids acting out. i think we can conclusively say that this "satanic temple" is not associated with that form of satanism.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15462
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
digitalbeachbum wrote:There

digitalbeachbum wrote:

There are two types, one which actually believes in a deity and those who practice being greedy, etc. but don't believe in the deity.

I believe there are too few to make a judgement on if they preach their belief. I would think that the most of them keep their mouths shut and don't go around professing their belief.

Them professing to be less dogmatic is not a selling point. As the OP stated, atheists don't believe in a god or devil. It still is yet another needless attempt to use old language to create an new a moral code. Not even the word "atheist" is a moral code. I think it is clear with the divisions even we have on this website. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves. It is simply another way of attempting to replace old ways for new ways. 

Some atheists call themselves "Humanists" or "freethinkers" or "brights". I think that is pointless. Our common law, regardless of beliefs theist or atheist, is what matters, anything else is merely a personal club we like. 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
satanists don't believe in a

satanists don't believe in a god or devil either, and they explicitly make that known. so your problem with them is what? seems to me like your problem with them is their label. how ironic.


derpty-derp wrote:
It is simply another way of attempting to replace old ways for new ways.



so instead of new ways or old ways we should have...no ways? or just your way?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
That or it seems extremely not worth debating (,perhaps)!

Old Seer wrote:

So, they're not really Satanists and only use the symbol without belief. I can understand that. The whole idea didn't make sense to me as presented.

 

 

 Old Seer, It Seems extremely not worth debating (,perhaps)!

 

  Image is comment  --

 

 

 

 




 

 

 


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Hi Dana.

It's kinda like the series my grandson watches, Son's of Anarchy. A buncha bad looking dudes going around doing good. It don't match up, at least my perspective of things. They look like they belong to the anti-bath league. I met a bunch of hells Angels at Oceanside CA back in 59. I can't tell the difference. 

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Hey , I dont think you understood the giant erect black monument

 

  Hey . .

      Forgive my indulgence, however, before we all lose track; I  dont  think  you understood the giant erect black monument , as to  what it is (SEE:  This page) . . .

 

    Bit of a quick hint, an Image properly scaled, as follows:

 

 

 

 

 

  post script -- Only saw a single ad  for the  show you referenced, I hadn't viewed the show mentioned  ( View Other Image Here or Below ) --

 

 

 

 







 


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Here's another view

of Satanism from Evolution News and Views

 

Official United Methodist News Service Implies Intelligent Design Is...Satanic?

satan-tried-to-tempt-jesus.jpg

The United Methodist News Service (the official news service of the denomination) has published an article about the UMC's ban on Discovery Institute from having an information table at its upcoming General Conference. I give a lot of credit to reporter Heather Hahn for being willing to talk with me to get Discovery Institute's side of the story.

 

This is only a small part of the article.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth