Michael Moore's "We are All Muslim"

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 Is this recent?

 Is this recent?


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pretty recent. it's

pretty recent. it's Michael's protest against Trump being anti mussie. So we're all muslims now!


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 I went to edit my post but

 I went to edit my post but I see it got locked in.. 

 

Yeah I went out and Googled it... I read MM's letter. Can't say I agree with all of his opinions.


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No Michael Moore

 

 

                 I am far to unreligious to agree with THAT sentiment.  But we are ALL human beings with equal right to dignity and respect up until we as individuals prove we are NOT worthy of dignity and respect. I can agree with Juis' Charlie and Juis' Parisianne I  do stand up for free speach and the right to feel safe and secure in one's own home/city. but asking me to make a pretense of belonging to a religion because of a racist dickhead's free speach right, is one step too far. 

 

 

 

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Most religions are in fact

Most religions are in fact made of those with no dignity though.

 

remember, RRS tried to declare religion as a mental disorder


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an unfortunate episode in

an unfortunate episode in RRS's history, since the existence of mental disorders is about as axiomatic as the existence of god.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Most people in psychiatry

Most people in psychiatry and psychology are completely oblivious to the underlying assumptions that prop up much of both of the entire fields. The only saving grace for these fields is that a very few people with very real problems have managed to live relatively 'normal' lives because of them, and all the stumbling around over the last century has actually figured out some things to do with how the brain works. It's only now that real science in the fields is starting to happen. It'll be at least another 20-30 years before psychiatry and psychology become as effective as a medical clinic to the average person.

Whether or not belief in religion itself can be classified as a disorder is so far beyond our (in)ability to define disorders that it is really just an attempt at attention gathering to say either way.

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for simply believing in god

for simply believing in god or being religious in any degree to ever be classified as a "mental disorder," it would have to become socially aberrant, and that's just for starters. "mental disorders" are at root social disorders.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Not really no. Mental

Not really no. Mental disorders are aberrations from that which is considered 'normal' (which is why much of psychology and psychiatry is bullshit; as there is no normal). People with social handicaps certainly qualify, but they are not the centrepiece of disorders. They are simply the easiest to identify. As an example, people with depression often function well socially. But they are not well.

Belief in deities and religions require a disconnect between reality and fiction in the brain. That certainly sounds like a disorder to me. Doesn't mean it would be considered a disorder if science had progressed further, but it certainly could be.

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depression is still a social

depression is still a social problem, even if only from the point of view of the subject. depression is an emotional alienation of the subject from society (and often from himself as well) which primarily manifests as severe melancholia. what we would call "mental disorders" rarely manifest as antisocial behavior.


as for "reality" and "fiction," i'm sure you realize how tenuous those terms are when we talk about the mind. we are constantly rearranging and remaking the world around us, not to mention the often drastic alterations of our memories. besides, there is one key fact to remember: to the religious, his religion is not fiction. he doesn't have to employ cognative dissonance to ignore its contradictions with the data around him: he simply ignores those data. (kinda reminds you of someone...) it's only those like kent hovind, who actively try to bring religious myths into line with scientific data, who start having to employ more and more mental gymnastics. most believers don't bother.


i agree psychology is pretty much bullshit. i have a little more respect for psychiatry because, even though it's founded on the principles of psychology, it at least comes to its solutions empirically, and it does get results. the problem with psychiatry is whether or not those results are worth the price. my sister suffers from ADD and clinical depression (diagnosed as an adult), and psychiatric drugs have made her life much more bearable. luckily, she's one of those who doesn't have to make a choice between enduring her symptoms and walking around in a fog.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Jeffrick wrote:       

Jeffrick wrote:

 

 

                 I am far to unreligious to agree with THAT sentiment.  But we are ALL human beings with equal right to dignity and respect up until we as individuals prove we are NOT worthy of dignity and respect. I can agree with Juis' Charlie and Juis' Parisianne I  do stand up for free speach and the right to feel safe and secure in one's own home/city. but asking me to make a pretense of belonging to a religion because of a racist dickhead's free speach right, is one step too far. 

 

 

 

 

Trump is selling fear and xenophobia not only with Muslims but Mexicans and even took a dig blaming China. 

 

But I am no fan of liberals whom while I think the empathy is there, will for example do stupid shit like demanding former Muslim Ayaan Hirsi Ali not be allowed to speak at colleges. I am no fan of idiots like Ben Affleck who can't understand the difference between bluntness, blasphemy and human rights, even when you point out those living under fear who want that uncomfortable conversation made.

There is a huge difference between rights and claims. Humans have rights, but claims as ideas do not deserve blind value. Trump appeals to the worst in our species. But, the GOP set him up long before he ran and they only have themeselves to blame. I really hope that fucker gets the nomination so he can sink the GOP.

 

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Vastet wrote:Not really no.

Vastet wrote:
Not really no. Mental disorders are aberrations from that which is considered 'normal' (which is why much of psychology and psychiatry is bullshit; as there is no normal). People with social handicaps certainly qualify, but they are not the centrepiece of disorders. They are simply the easiest to identify. As an example, people with depression often function well socially. But they are not well. Belief in deities and religions require a disconnect between reality and fiction in the brain. That certainly sounds like a disorder to me. Doesn't mean it would be considered a disorder if science had progressed further, but it certainly could be.

Um phychology and psychiatry are not bullshit. They explain why people with depression can function well in society. I agree there is "no normal" just the observable but that doesn't make what we observe a healthy way to live. Now while you are rightfully blasting deities and the idea of religons being a disconnect between reality and fiction in the brain, do yourself a favor instead of being the brat you have been, try understanding why religion SHOULD be called poison. It is precisely because it is a disconnect that it leads humans to horrible logic and even to horrible acts. It is no different than knowing you cant get rid of a voclano, but you should not mistake the "functioning depressed person" as the dormant volcano as always staying dormant "fuctional". 

 

Depression happens like tornados happen like cancer happens. Religion and deity claims happen in much the same way. Natural does not mean good or even that you can rid the world of it, it merely means we observe it, just like depression, just like tornados. You accept them as flaws in order to manage them better. 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:
They explain why people with depression can function well in society.



they do nothing of the sort. they might attempt to, but none of their results are verifiable or falsifiable, except purely in the realm of biochemistry (psychiatry's playground), and even there the current methodology is comparable to trepanning in the middle ages. psychology's methods are at base no more scientific than any religious practice. the idea you attack religion and defend psychology is laughable, though i'm certainly not surprised.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:depression is

iwbiek wrote:
depression is still a social problem, even if only from the point of view of the subject. depression is an emotional alienation of the subject from society (and often from himself as well) which primarily manifests as severe melancholia. what we would call "mental disorders" rarely manifest as antisocial behavior.

No, depression is a state in which hormonal and chemical imbalances disrupt the processes of the brain. Any social impact is secondary, and society rarely has any impact on the depression itself. It is one of the few areas in psychiatry that has been studied sufficiently to be able to successfully treat patients with medication. It is by no means as well understood and fixable as say a broken bone, but it is slowly getting better.

I don't know what the likelyhood of someone some day coming up with a cure for theism is, nor what the consequences of using it would be. But it isn't outside the realm of possibility to say religious belief may be a symptom of a mental disorder.

iwbiek wrote:
as for "reality" and "fiction," i'm sure you realize how tenuous those terms are when we talk about the mind. we are constantly rearranging and remaking the world around us, not to mention the often drastic alterations of our memories.

Unlike Schrodingers cat, the world doesn't require us to observe and record and study for it to keep doing what it is doing. There is a hard line between what is and what might be. Anyone who sufficiently disconnects from what is, so far as to even reject it, to embrace what might be is legitimately handicapped.
Parents let their children die, people kill each other, policies of oppression are instituted, epidemics rage out of control, and religious-like thinking is the primary cause. No single mainstream religion past or present can claim more or less responsibility than any other, and indeed many non-religious people can be guilty of the same things. But when you look at those people, they are identical in every way to the hardened theists except they don't believe in god, per se. Maybe they believe in magic, or ghosts, or ressurection, or aliens abducting them and sticking probes in their ass. The fundamental psychological state is the same.
There is a range of behaviour. On one end of the spectrum you have the majority who mostly just do what they are told and what is expected of them to fit in. They don't think about it much and it doesn't impact their core decision making.
In the middle you have people who think about it a fair bit, and in minor decision making you can observe various choices directly influenced by belief. Though core decision making is still generally rooted in reality, and these people aren't likely to risk their lives and livelihoods on their beliefs.
On the other end of the spectrum you have people who literally live as if their beliefs were real, and can be considered delusional. All their decision making is based on their beliefs. They will cheerfully kill their enemies and allow themselves and their friends to lose everything and die in the cause of their beliefs.

iwbiek wrote:
besides, there is one key fact to remember: to the religious, his religion is not fiction. he doesn't have to employ cognative dissonance to ignore its contradictions with the data around him: he simply ignores those data. (kinda reminds you of someone...) it's only those like kent hovind, who actively try to bring religious myths into line with scientific data, who start having to employ more and more mental gymnastics. most believers don't bother.

I agree. Most people who believe in religion aren't necessarily so out there as to be classified as mentally disabled. But as there is mild and severe depression, so too would it make sense that if religious belief is a symptom of a mental disorder then that disorder would have mild and severe cases associated with it. Millions of people live with mild depression and never even become aware of it because they never see a psychiatrist or end up institutionalised.

iwbiek wrote:
i agree psychology is pretty much bullshit. i have a little more respect for psychiatry because, even though it's founded on the principles of psychology, it at least comes to its solutions empirically, and it does get results. the problem with psychiatry is whether or not those results are worth the price. my sister suffers from ADD and clinical depression (diagnosed as an adult), and psychiatric drugs have made her life much more bearable. luckily, she's one of those who doesn't have to make a choice between enduring her symptoms and walking around in a fog.

A lot of psychology is bull shit, but a lot of it is awesome too. The whole reason we know how fallible our memories are is thanks to psychology. The biggest problem in the field is that it attempts to define normal in an evolving species, much like grammar nazi's attempt to preserve language even though language evolves. It then uses that caricature of normalcy to define disorders. As the baseline is a flawed concept, so too must the results be questionable.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Brian37 wrote:Um phychology

Brian37 wrote:
Um phychology and psychiatry are not bullshit.

The ignorant fool attempts to challenge an educated expert and fails. As always.

Brian37 wrote:
They explain why people with depression can function well in society.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. But you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about and as a result you're never right. Kinda funny that a broken clock is right more often than you are.

Brian37 wrote:
I agree there is "no normal" just the observable but that doesn't make what we observe a healthy way to live.

What? Anyone with a degree in stupidity want to translate this for me?

Brian37 wrote:
Now while you are rightfully blasting deities and the idea of religons being a disconnect between reality and fiction in the brain, do yourself a favor instead of being the brat you have been, try understanding why religion SHOULD be called poison.

No retard, YOU understand why religious belief should NOT be called poison. You are literally calling people who might have a mental disorder names. Do you yell at autistic kids and call them poison? Depressed people? How about people in wheelchairs? Because that's exactly what you're doing every time you call religion poison. You are the scum everyone despises. An uneducated bigot and a cowardly bully. YOU are the poison.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.