14 dead in another mass shooting.

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14 dead in another mass shooting.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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American mass shootings

American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences.

"As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.
 
In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."

 http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

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Vastet wrote:American mass

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

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Vastet wrote:American mass

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

Yes they are, and it is because of one industry and the NRA lobby scaring the crap out of object worshipers to keep and grow a flooded gun market. Gun worshipers want to protect guns like Isis will kill over the Koran. This isn't about political/religious or mere whack job. These guys just like Roof, and and the PP shooter and the Va Reporter shooter had easy access to guns. 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

Yes they are, and it is because of one industry and the NRA lobby scaring the crap out of object worshipers to keep and grow a flooded gun market. Gun worshipers want to protect guns like Isis will kill over the Koran. This isn't about political/religious or mere whack job. These guys just like Roof, and and the PP shooter and the Va Reporter shooter had easy access to guns. 

 

 

So are you a supporter of banning personal ownership of guns yet? Or are you still hyperbolizing about problems without offering practical solutions?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 Do we ever hear about mass

 Do we ever hear about mass shootings at gun ranges?  If not, why not?


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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

Yes they are, and it is because of one industry and the NRA lobby scaring the crap out of object worshipers to keep and grow a flooded gun market. Gun worshipers want to protect guns like Isis will kill over the Koran. This isn't about political/religious or mere whack job. These guys just like Roof, and and the PP shooter and the Va Reporter shooter had easy access to guns. 

 

 

Yet snother ignorant rant by the uneducated fool who literally pulls arguments right out of his ass.

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zarathustra wrote: Do we

zarathustra wrote:

 Do we ever hear about mass shootings at gun ranges?  If not, why not?

Not the point, having a gun anywhere does not insure safety. Not a body count issue.

 

 

Humn death can happen at a shooting range. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/03/justice/texas-sniper-killed/ Then there was the girl who killed her instructor with the uzi. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/02/girl-who-accidentally-shot-her-instructor-with-an-uzi-said-the-gun-w... But I guess if you have a permit, then meh, who give a fuck https://www.toledoblade.com/Police-Fire/2015/12/04/Delivery-driver-accidentally-shot-by-customer-s-gun.html Wait, maybe if you have some police training. http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2015/08/31/dekalb-co-police-officer-shot/71492826/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am-Qdx6vky0 "trained" officers injure 9 bystanders http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/25/justice/new-york-empire-state-shooting/ Lets forget the Va Tech shooter had no record. And lets forget the SB shooters also had no record. Now, maybe the fact is most people who think they can handle a gun over estimate their abilities. If trained people can injure themselves, then odds are those with even less training over estimate their abilities. The fact remains that no matter how the gun is obtained, either legally or illegally, it still remains even without mass shootings, you are STILL more likely to injure yourself or someone you are familiar with in the home/neighorhood. The issue isn't about rights, the issue is VOLUME made and ease of access. If everyone wants guns kept out of he wrong hands, then people need to think about it not being as simple as "I have no record" and "I can hit my target". Hitting a target at a range is not the same as hitting a target under stressful traumatic situations.

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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

Yes they are, and it is because of one industry and the NRA lobby scaring the crap out of object worshipers to keep and grow a flooded gun market. Gun worshipers want to protect guns like Isis will kill over the Koran. This isn't about political/religious or mere whack job. These guys just like Roof, and and the PP shooter and the Va Reporter shooter had easy access to guns. 

 

 

Yet snother ignorant rant by the uneducated fool who literally pulls arguments right out of his ass.

 

Nope, sorry, this is just a continuation of you not liking me. Guns are like any other business, and like far too much of the corporate world they pump money into the politics to prevent any pragmatic changes to improve conditions. Just like the car industry paid their "scientists" and lobbiests to keep led in gas until enough people got wise to it. Just like you posted Exxon hiding the evidence about burning fossil fuels. Just like car companies railed against Nadar for exposing the truth. Just like tobacco companies lied about their marketing tactics and lobbied to cover up the dangers of smoking. Just like the NFL did everything to hide the dangers of head injuries.

 

The NRA is not a safety orginization, they were when they were founded, but all they are now is just another profit protector.

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

Yes they are, and it is because of one industry and the NRA lobby scaring the crap out of object worshipers to keep and grow a flooded gun market. Gun worshipers want to protect guns like Isis will kill over the Koran. This isn't about political/religious or mere whack job. These guys just like Roof, and and the PP shooter and the Va Reporter shooter had easy access to guns. 

 

 

So are you a supporter of banning personal ownership of guns yet? Or are you still hyperbolizing about problems without offering practical solutions?

 

You not liking my offerings does not mean the status qoe is acceptable. I have offered them, you simply don't like them, becuase you have the same mentality Isis does about the Koran, you treat a gun as if it is a living human instead of an object. 

1. THE FOLLOWING DOES NOT MEAN "TAKE ALL GUNS AWAY"

2. Re read until you get that through your parianoid skull.

3. Humans have rights, but guns are not living humans. Just like you can drive a car on a public road, but you cant drive a 5 lane wide monster truck on a public road, and you cant legally speed 100mph in a school zone. Safety regulations do not make something an outright ban. Just like you cant sell porn to kids. Just like you cant sell beer to minors.

4. "Background checks don't work", yep I agree, because they are too quick and the person is not mentally evaluated before they get one, yet police and military are required to. Mandatory psych evalutation. And training, not just the ability to hit a target, but testing to see if the potential owner can hit the right target under stress. 7 day wating period and limit on guns in householed. Proof of safety/anti theft in the house. 

6. Mandatory review of licence periodically. 

5. Bans on spray weapons and large clips. "re read #1," Know the difference between wants and needs. I get that people want them. But if you cant hit a deer, or defend yoruself with a limited clip, then basically all you are saying is you like them.

6. Ban on online sales, close gun show loophole.

7. Tracable ammo, limits on ammo.

8. Move to making smart guns. If nobody wants their gun used unauthorized then this is a benifit to the owner.

9. Re read #1.

 

Dont scream about keeping guns out of the wrong hands, we both agree on that, then bitch about any hint of regulation. The reason we cant do anything affectively is because of our country's attitude towards guns. That is the biggest problem. Nothing is going to change until more people realize that it isn't as simple as "I have no record" and "I can hit my target" or "I have no ill intent, I am responsible". 

The issue has been and still is the sheer number we make, our flooded market and ease of getting them, both legally and illegally. 

Oh and realated to that, invest in mental health care, universal health care, livable wages for workers,  lower cost of living ratio between the top and bottom. Cheaper and or free higher education. Oh and that too does not say "End the private sector".

 

Now once again I offered up my solutions. You have no excuse once again. Now, will I get all of that, certainly not with the paranoid right, but "do nothing" and "me me me me" and "other bad shit happens so do nothing about this" isn't going to cut it. 

 

 

 

7. 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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 If I already posted this,

 If I already posted this, sorry but again if one rightfully say background checks don't work, i agree, because we hand them out too quickly, this guy got one legally, so that says our current laws are NOT keeping them out of the wrong hands.

 

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2015/12/7-year-old_dead_mother_in_seri.html

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 I'd even bet the recent

 I'd even bet the recent biker bar shooting where 9 people died had a mix of both legal and illegal guns. But right now everyone has lawyered up but once the trials start will be interesting to know the legality of all the guns fired in that testosterone bullshit fake patriot "rebel" "baddass" crap.

 

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"Nope, sorry, this is just a

"Nope, sorry, this is just a continuation of you not liking me. "

Brian says something stupid and false, I call him on it, and this is his response. No argument, no facts, just: "waa waa mommy he doesn't like me waa waa".

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 Guns, exciting and new,

 Guns, exciting and new, buy some more, their  killing you. And Guns, worshipers ignore, let them spray, kill some more. THE GUN BOAT, soon will be making another run, THE GUN BOAT, promises death for everyone, set course for adventure a pretend bad ass, and guns, wont hurt anymore, in their delusional world, if we just make some more. WELCOME ABOARD IT'S GUNS GUNS GUNS!

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Vastet wrote:"Nope, sorry,

Vastet wrote:
"Nope, sorry, this is just a continuation of you not liking me. " Brian says something stupid and false, I call him on it, and this is his response. No argument, no facts, just: "waa waa mommy he doesn't like me waa waa".

Nope, don't rightfully point out how big oil markets it's product knowing rightfully it is hurting the planet, then ignore that gun makers are a business as well. They are marketed to hyper sensitive paranoid people, just like idiots don't want to give up their gas hogs sports cars and big trucks. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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If

fireams are taken away from those that want them, mentally ill or not---explosives is a more efecient way to get it done. They'll migrate from one to the next.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

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 1. Okay, so you still

 1. Okay, so you still support guns and oppose the only law that could possibly have prevented this attack. You must be an NRA shill.

2. Reread. Check. You are still a gun lover who supports mass murderers.

3. There are numerous safety regulations regarding guns. It is illegal for me to put an unloaded shotgun in the back of my truck without casing it first, even if the truck is not running. I had that argument with a conservation officer recently when I placed my gun such in order to restrain my dog who rightfully determined the guy was an authoritarian prick. Personally, I think it is much safer to lay the gun in the truck even if loaded than attempt to restrain the dog one handed while controlling my gun with one hand. But knucklehead and the state of Wisconsin disagreed. Regardless, I'm sure the state of California has an equally long if not longer list of safety regulations too. Farook and Malik apparently weren't intimidated about getting slapped with a fine for safety violations. At a minimum, they had loaded, uncased fire arms in a moving motor vehicle. In California, not only must the gun be unloaded and cased, but the case must be physically locked and stored in the trunk. Just their safety violations alone is enough to bring felony charges. Somehow, that didn't stop them.

4. So we should make sure that mass shooters are skilled shots? To make sure they kill more accurately? How exactly do you become a crack shot without owning a gun? My shooting skills require a great deal of time at the gun range to maintain. Though the evidence appears that these two were decent shot, which is unfortunate for the victims. Personally, I prefer kooks shooting at me have terrible accuracy. 

7 day waiting period? Is the 10 day period already existing in California law too long? Is that what caused them to flip out? Is there any evidence that these guns weren't stored safely? I'm not sure what the laws are, but I'm sure California has laws regarding how guns must be stored. They didn't prevent the massacre either. Limits on number of guns? They only had two each, one rifle and one pistol. Should the limit be lower than that?

6a. Both of these people went through far more than average review for gun owners. They had the Department of Homeland Security scrutinizing them for here green card, and they passed. How could more scrutiny have found anything?

5. Already banned in California. Both guns were modified after purchase. A magazine isn't a complicated piece of equipment. It is a couple pieces of metal with a spring. Any asshole with the most basic tools in their garage can make on whatever size they desire. Converting any semi automatic to full auto is an even easier task (and highly illegal as in breaking it causes ATF swat teams to come after you shoot your dog, your kids and your wife). For some reason, those laws didn't stop Farook and Malik either! Can you believe it?!?!?

6b. Already both illegal in California. Background checks are required for all purchases, and while you can order a gun online, you must pick up the gun at an FFL certified dealer. 

7. How do you plan on making ammo traceable? Why not just pass a law saying that Jesus needs to prevent all murder? What is tge point anyway? There is nothing that needs to be traced, we know exactly who did the shooting.

8. Well, we certainly wouldn't want the chance of someone taking a mass shooters gun and shooting him/her. Again, how would that have prevented THIS shooting? I see the appeal of the tech, and believe me, I will grow my gun collection when it becomes practical and affordable, but it isn't going to make crime disappear. 

9. Got it, you still have offered zero proposals that would have prevented this shooting or even have made it more difficult. And you still oppose the only proposal that might have.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote: If I already

Brian37 wrote:

 If I already posted this, sorry but again if one rightfully say background checks don't work, i agree, because we hand them out too quickly, this guy got one legally, so that says our current laws are NOT keeping them out of the wrong hands.

 

 

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2015/12/7-year-old_dead_mother_in_seri.html

So which of your proposed laws WOULD have kept the pistol out of that man's hands? He went through a background check, had no record of mental illness, had the gun for three months, so a 7 day wait does nothing. He had a concealed carry meaning that he did have to pass a safety test. The gun was a simple pistol, nothing fancy. And he apparently only had the one gun. So what is your solution? Because nothing you mentioned so far would have prevented this shooting either.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote:American mass

Vastet wrote:
American mass shootings aren't even news. They're just regular occurrences. "As for the year to date, the Washington Post reports that there have been 335 days so far in 2015 – and in that time, there have been 355 mass shootings in the United States. In fact, there was a shooting in Savannah this morning that left one person dead and three others injured.   In other words, the deadly violence in San Bernardino is the second mass shooting today."  http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/latest-mass-shooting-unfolds-southern-california

www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-san-bernardino-mass-shooting-statistics-20151204-story.html

Some perspective is important. Especially if you are concerned about dealing with the issue instead of scoring political points.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
"Nope, sorry, this is just a continuation of you not liking me. " Brian says something stupid and false, I call him on it, and this is his response. No argument, no facts, just: "waa waa mommy he doesn't like me waa waa".

Nope, don't rightfully point out how big oil markets it's product knowing rightfully it is hurting the planet, then ignore that gun makers are a business as well. They are marketed to hyper sensitive paranoid people, just like idiots don't want to give up their gas hogs sports cars and big trucks. 

Brian wants to lock everyone up in a padded room by themselves so noone can hurt him. waa waa mommy he doesn't like me waa waa

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I think the distinction

I think the distinction between 4 people shot and 4 people killed is irrelevant. I didn't say mass killing, and neither did my source. Why do people have to actually die in order to qualify as a mass shooting instead of... what exactly?

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Vastet wrote:I think the

Vastet wrote:
I think the distinction between 4 people shot and 4 people killed is irrelevant. I didn't say mass killing, and neither did my source. Why do people have to actually die in order to qualify as a mass shooting instead of... what exactly?

A nut who goes out and starts shooting everyone they can is rather different from a gangbanger who shoots at a particular target and 3 innocent bystanders are injured by stray bullets in terms of what precations would be best to prevent them. Our country has a huge gang problem. Even were that solved somehow, it isn't going to solve the nut who snaps and shoots everyone at work and vice versa. So from a practical standpoint, it doesn't make sense to conflate the two when looking for solutions.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Your own article points out

Your own article points out that gang violence isn't even recorded in the statistics. Which is wrong as far as I'm concerned.

Whether multiple people actually die or not is irrelevant to the fact someone(s) shot multiple people in a single incident. The fact that such an event happens on average more than once per day in the US. Every single incident is unique in its own way. That doesn't let you say this was a mass shooting and that wasn't. If multiple people get shot, it's a mass shooting.

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