luke a sith lord?

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luke a sith lord?

there's been a lot of speculation lately about luke being the sith lord shown on the posters for episode vii, especially since mark hamill is conspicuously absent from the posters. this article makes an interesting case for the signs being there in jedi:


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rob-conery/luke-skywalker-theory-destroys-everything-star-wars_b_8392698.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000...


i admit, i don't follow the franchise closely. i was a fanatic right around the age of 12, but the only expanded universe materials i ever really got into was dark horse comics' "dark empire" series, where luke does turn for awhile. unlike many other people, as a kid jedi was by far my favorite film in the original trilogy. i watched it god knows how many times, and it is still burned into my mind much more than the other two. if we look at luke's clothes in jedi in light of the prequels, they do seem to resemble the typical sith outfit. he never dons the brown and white jedi robes. i don't know. vastet, what do you think? give it a read.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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Maybe. Technically speaking,

Maybe. Technically speaking, Luke did a bunch of things in Episode V & VI that were pushing him towards the dark side. I'm fairly certain that his joining the emperor in Dark Empire was a conscious acknowledgement of the path he was taking in the movies by Lucasfilm.

But how the hell can they justify such a move when they don't have anything at all to turn up the pressure? A few steps towards the dark side is one thing, becoming a Sith is something completely different. You don't become a Sith just by doing immoral things. There's a philosophy to the Sith just like there is with the Jedi. Something you have to be taught. And a journey you must take to prove yourself to the Force. You don't become a Sith just by killing people, being a dick, and swinging a red lightsaber.

But the expanded universe is dead and some dipshit arrogant dumb ass who ruins everything he touches is now in control instead of Lucas. Not to mention Disney.

TBH, Star Wars is dead now. There's still a few books coming that I think are worth reading, but the moment Episode VII is released most new novels will run with the travesty of the new films.

Re: the article, Luke definitely didn't turn at the end of Jedi. He almost did, he was damn close. But when he threw his lightsaber away he saved himself from that end. He was still a few steps along that path, and in the novels leading to Dark Empire he took a few more, and that made him vulnerable to the emperor's clones, but he was moving VERY slowly. And the path to the dark side doesn't require one to be a Sith. It can easily be argued that dark Jedi are at least as evil as Sith lords, if not more so. The Sith and the Jedi have identical goals, they just use incompatible methodologies. Whereas a being who is simply consumed by the dark side is absolutely twisted into a purely selfish and incredibly destructive being. There are light side and dark side philosophies (mostly light side and neutral, the Sith are even more vicious than the Jedi when it comes to competition, and they tend to wipe out anything similar to themselves as a matter of prudence) that have nothing to do with Jedi & Sith

More to the point, I'm not aware of a single instance where a Jedi converted a Sith to the light and simultaneously fell to the dark. It really isn't possible, generally speaking. If I thought about it long enough I might think of a way it could happen, but I really doubt it. The Sith would feel the Jedi being turned. Vader would know Luke went dark, and it would prevent any possibility of Vader going to the light. There'd be no motivation. Sith aren't incapable of love and protecting those they love. Ironically it is the Jedi who scorn such emotions. The Sith embrace them.

The very last scene of Jedi absolutely refutes the possibility of Luke turning dark. Either Vader & Luke both came out of it light, or they both came out dark. The fact that you see Anakin standing with Yoda and Obi Wan all friendly like and smiling destroys any miscommunication possibility.

...Unless you assume Yoda and Obi Wan were ALSO dark. I could argue that to a point, but it really wouldn't work out in the long run. Obi Wan was effectively the epitome of what it was to be a Jedi. And as much of the responsibility of the fall of the order rests on Yoda's head, he was consumed by the light side of the Force. He wasn't any more capable of becoming a Sith than Sidious was of becoming a Jedi.

Also have to say Yoda was wrong about EVERYTHING. He was SO completely wrong that he is almost soley responsible for the fall of the Jedi in Episode III, and on some level he knew it. It's why he went into exile on Dagobah instead of assisting the few survivors of Order 66 and trying to undo the Empire. He was a significant part of the corruption inside the Jedi order. More so than others like Windu because all the Jedi looked up to Yoda as if he were the Grand Master of the order and an infallible voice of the light. The problem was that Yoda was consumed by the light, and completely incapable of appreciating any viewpoint but his own. In his arrogance he thought he knew better than the entire Jedi council, and very publically opposed accepting Anakin. That ended up separating Anakin from the order sufficiently for Sidious to begin encouraging Anakin to turn to the dark side pretty much the moment Episode I ended. It could never have happened if not for Yoda's insistence that Anakin should be turned away. He personally drove the wedge between the Jedi and Anakin that manifested in Episode III.

That whole bs line about Sidious realising he'd created a rival is ridiculous. No Sith apprentice would ever get anywhere if he or she weren't a rival! The whole point of Darth Bane's legacy was the rule of two: One to embody power, the other to crave it. The whole philosophy is grounded in the idea of the apprentice overthrowing the master. Luke could never have become Sidious' apprentice if he didn't show a willingness to kill Sidious and take his place. You don't see it in the movies much (just one scene in Episode III and one scene in Episode V), but Vader was constantly looking for a way to unseat Sidious and take over.

The author of the article doesn't know anything.

But that doesn't mean his hypothesis is wrong. It's certainly possible that Luke will be the bad guy. It just wouldn't make any sense at all without some kind of flashback to show how and why. Not that I expect anything remotely logical to happen in the new trilogy.

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Vastet,Vastet---

Knock off the logic, you're ruining the plot. Smiling


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 I quit caring after George

 I quit caring after George "I'm a cock sucking idiot" Lucas ruined three high budget productions.


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Vastet wrote: But the

Vastet wrote:
But the expanded universe is dead and some dipshit arrogant dumb ass who ruins everything he touches is now in control instead of Lucas. Not to mention Disney. TBH, Star Wars is dead now

Why people continue to flock to everything JJ does is a mystery to me since the consensus is always that the movie\show failed to live to its potential. Yet people are already buying tickets. If it was some no name, I'd go see it in theaters, with JJ I will save my money and maybe watch it on netfix some drunken night.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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It seems to me

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
But the expanded universe is dead and some dipshit arrogant dumb ass who ruins everything he touches is now in control instead of Lucas. Not to mention Disney. TBH, Star Wars is dead now

Why people continue to flock to everything JJ does is a mystery to me since the consensus is always that the movie\show failed to live to its potential. Yet people are already buying tickets. If it was some no name, I'd go see it in theaters, with JJ I will save my money and maybe watch it on netfix some drunken night.

that the fist movie in a sequal is always the best, at least for me. After the first things get streached and miss happened. I've seen the first Star Wars and didn't mind it. But as usual if I judge the ads for the next one it looks like a purposeful over-sell and I'm not interested. The same with Terminator--it was Ok up to #3 but----it' goes to far over the side and out the back door. I guess the best way I can put it---the last ones get into rediculum and to far out of reality. Getting out of reality has it's interests but all that's left for the last one is a bad story line, and the better ideas are used up on the first ones.

 

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Beyond Saving wrote:Vastet

Beyond Saving wrote:

Vastet wrote:
But the expanded universe is dead and some dipshit arrogant dumb ass who ruins everything he touches is now in control instead of Lucas. Not to mention Disney. TBH, Star Wars is dead now

Why people continue to flock to everything JJ does is a mystery to me since the consensus is always that the movie\show failed to live to its potential. Yet people are already buying tickets. If it was some no name, I'd go see it in theaters, with JJ I will save my money and maybe watch it on netfix some drunken night.

I agree. It was JJ who demanded the expanded universe get tossed, because he's a hack who isn't capable of doing a story that acknowledges the history of the franchise. He did exactly the same thing with Star Trek, and managed to ruin 5 tv shows and 9 movies in the process.

I don't think I'll ever watch this movie, even for free. As far as I'm concerned, Episodes VII-IX aren't canon and should be boycotted. First thing I'd do if given control of Star Wars is start writing Episode VII, declaring all JJ's movies as irrelevant garbage. See how he likes it.

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Old Seer wrote:Knock off the

Old Seer wrote:

Knock off the logic, you're ruining the plot. Smiling

I really must point out that if logic is ruining the plot, the plot is so bad that it cannot be ruined further.

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digitalbeachbum wrote: I

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 I quit caring after George "I'm a cock sucking idiot" Lucas ruined three high budget productions.

Lucas made 6 masterpieces in Star Wars. Your inability to appreciate them is your problem. There would be no Star Wars without Lucas, and the idea that he ruined the series with the prequels just because you don't like his vision is hilarious.

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Vastet wrote:digitalbeachbum

Vastet wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:

 I quit caring after George "I'm a cock sucking idiot" Lucas ruined three high budget productions.

Lucas made 6 masterpieces in Star Wars. Your inability to appreciate them is your problem. There would be no Star Wars without Lucas, and the idea that he ruined the series with the prequels just because you don't like his vision is hilarious.

Your a puck sucking Canadian. Shut the fuck up. What do you know about movies. Go fish on some iced over lake.

Lucas was in the right place and the right time. He stole the story and murdered his roommate. He couldn't write a good script if he had a billion years to write one.

And for all the credit he gets on the first two movies he had less to do with those movies than any one knows, which is why they are the better of all the movies. Once Land of the Ewoks was release I knew Lucas was a loser hack.


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ex

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

Knock off the logic, you're ruining the plot. Smiling

I really must point out that if logic is ruining the plot, the plot is so bad that it cannot be ruined further.

cellent. Smiling  A certain amount of stupidity is oft times necessary to be entertained.

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digitalbeachbum wrote:Your a

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Your a puck sucking Canadian.

Says a pigskin sucking American.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Shut the fuck up.

No, you shut the fuck up. Noone asked for your dumb ass opinion.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
What do you know about movies.

A lot more than you do.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Go fish on some iced over lake.

You first. Make sure you don't settle down until you hear the ice cracking. At least feeding the fish will let you accomplish something useful.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
Lucas was in the right place and the right time.

The same is true of anything anyone ever did, thus completely pointless to mention.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
He stole the story and murdered his roommate.

Every story ever written was stolen from a previous one. No original story exists. You're just a dumb ass with a hardcore bias.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
He couldn't write a good script if he had a billion years to write one.

Says the guy who can't comprehend the story Lucas wrote. Who can't even comprehend a comic book story. lmfao.

digitalbeachbum wrote:
And for all the credit he gets on the first two movies he had less to do with those movies than any one knows, which is why they are the better of all the movies.

No he had everything to do with them. More than any other director has had with any other movie for the last 30 years.

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Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:

Knock off the logic, you're ruining the plot. Smiling

I really must point out that if logic is ruining the plot, the plot is so bad that it cannot be ruined further.

cellent. Smiling  A certain amount of stupidity is oft times necessary to be entertained.

That's what those teen movies are for. Eye-wink

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Vastet wrote:digitalbeachbum

Vastet wrote:
digitalbeachbum wrote:
Your a puck sucking Canadian.
Says a pigskin sucking American.
lol


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XD

XD

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Vastet wrote: I agree. It

Vastet wrote:

I agree. It was JJ who demanded the expanded universe get tossed,



but isn't abrams working from lucas's outline? lucas always said he plotted all nine movies back in the '70s. as for the expanded universe, i read a recent interview with lucas--i think it was the first one he gave after selling the franchise to disney--where he said none of it is really canon, even though he licensed it. regarding dark empire, i remember he specifically said, "the emperor never got cloned." i suppose i could find it again, if you really want.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Vastet wrote: I

iwbiek wrote:
Vastet wrote:
I agree. It was JJ who demanded the expanded universe get tossed,

but isn't abrams working from lucas's outline? lucas always said he plotted all nine movies back in the '70s.

Lucas's outline from the 70's was limited to very simplistic terms. JJ is following a very weak idea.


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iwbiek wrote:Vastet wrote: I

iwbiek wrote:
Vastet wrote:

I agree. It was JJ who demanded the expanded universe get tossed,



but isn't abrams working from lucas's outline? lucas always said he plotted all nine movies back in the '70s. as for the expanded universe, i read a recent interview with lucas--i think it was the first one he gave after selling the franchise to disney--where he said none of it is really canon, even though he licensed it. regarding dark empire, i remember he specifically said, "the emperor never got cloned." i suppose i could find it again, if you really want.


Lucas never said anything that I saw about a possible outline for Episodes 7 through 9 all the way through the 70's, 80's, & 90's at least. His memory is shit so any three interviews you watch of his he'll contradict himself on something.

The expanded universe was canon. He literally said so publically. He personally had veto power over every aspect of every novel, game, comic, etc. Any character death or significant change in the galaxy first had to be approved by him.
I'll also note that the cloned emperor was more than just a clone. It had the emperors life essence, transfered just before his death.

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well, i found the quote i

well, i found the quote i remember, though i'm pretty sure i read it in the context of the original interview.


lucas wrote:
"I’ve left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That’s because there isn’t any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there have been novels about the events after Episode IV, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married …"



http://www.cinemablend.com/new/George-Lucas-Was-Terrible-Predicting-Future-Star-Wars-68506.html


so it seems he doesn't outright say the EU isn't canon, but it doesn't follow his vision. then again, he says he didn't have a vision. i don't know, it's kind of a confusing position. still, i know i've read in multiple places that he originally envisioned nine movies.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I have novels with

I have novels with interviews and statements by Lucas and Lucasarts specifically stating that all Lucasarts licensed material is canon. Multiple interviews stating implicitly that Lucas personally had to approve this or that. The very fact that you can find comments all over the net about the decanonisation of that material implicitly requires it to have been canon in order to be decanonised.

They are rewriting history. There was never any outline for Episodes 7 through 9, and all EU material was canon. I know this with certainty. I would have been waiting for Episode 7 since the 80's like I waited for Episode 1 if Lucas had ever mentioned a possibility for Episode 7, and I never would have jumped into the Star Wars novels if, like Star Trek, they were never considered canon. I guarantee you can't find anything dated previous to 2001 that says otherwise. There are even elements in Episodes 1 through 3 that specifically rely on details established in the novels. Like the name Coruscant, which first appeared in Timothy Zahn's Heir To The Empire trilogy.

They now say that he animated series is canon while the EU is not, even though much of the material in that series makes sense only to those who stayed abreast of the EU.

This is why Star Wars is dead. Everything they say is a lie. Fuck all of them. Far as I'm concerned, there is no episodes 7 through 9, and everything written up until the release of the novelisation of Episode 7 is canon. Everything afterwards is trash.

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iwbiek wrote:well, i found

iwbiek wrote:
well, i found the quote i remember, though i'm pretty sure i read it in the context of the original interview.
lucas wrote:
"I’ve left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII-IX. That’s because there isn’t any story. I mean, I never thought of anything! And now there have been novels about the events after Episode IV, which isn’t at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn’t come back to life, the Emperor doesn’t get cloned and Luke doesn’t get married …"

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/George-Lucas-Was-Terrible-Predicting-Future-Star-Wars-68506.html
so it seems he doesn't outright say the EU isn't canon, but it doesn't follow his vision. then again, he says he didn't have a vision. i don't know, it's kind of a confusing position. still, i know i've read in multiple places that he originally envisioned nine movies.

When they offered him 60 zillion dollars he said "oh sure, do what ever the fuck you want with the story, bring Vader back, clone the Emperor and marry Luke to whomever you want..."