Mumble, bumble, fumble jumble.

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Mumble, bumble, fumble jumble.

I check the Bloomberg page now and then to see how much the world is costing me presently. (Old Seers still use money, it's the going way of things, so we have to deal with it too) Migrating and fiddling around on other pages I came across a conversation by economists. Holy Kow. I didn't think to bookmark it but--- Ionly read a few lines and then Xed out. The conversation is something like this. IF (another "if" floks) -------If there could be a less expensive means to transport oil in larger quantities the price of oil couild remain lower yada yada yada the ecomony could yada yada better.  Now the other guy---and the manufacturing of renewalble energy by wind and solor would also in crease jobs and yada yada and yada, the standard of living would yada yada .

Contradiction.--- Well hells bells people --what the ell good is it going to do to transport more oil cheaper if we're trying to cut the use of it. Geezziz H Krist people. These are the floks that we're relying on to solve problems. Who pays these guys to come up with this stuff. And, it's a safe bet that these types all have Ph ds  (maybe Ph Qs too) in something.

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EXC
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 Just like with scientists,

 Just like with scientists, economists have to appeal to either of the 2 political groups in this country. Otherwise they don't have a job. So the 2 party system and funds itself. No objective science, no out of the box thinking, no discussing taboo subjects is allowed.

The fact is economic growth isn't such a great thing that its made out to be. Just look at the booming economy of Silicon Valley and the oil fields of North Dakota. Working people can't afford to live there, rents, pollution, crime, stress all increase. Any economic boom is only good for the 1%. An economicst can't tell you that cause the 1% fund them.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


EXC
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 Just like with scientists,

DP


Beyond Saving
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 It isn't a contradiction

 It isn't a contradiction at all. There is no single goal to economics and multiple things can be good for different reasons depending on your goals. If your goal is cheap energy, currently oil is the cheapest and if we can deliver it more efficiently it allows those excess resources to be used for something else. That something else may well be research into alternative energies. Although, if alternative energy is your sole goal, then high oil prices are likely to encourage greater investment in alternatives and make those alternatives viable at a higher price point. But the bottom line is that economics is never monolithic, and what is "bad" in the eyes of one person can be very good for another. It very much depends upon subjective goals. The entire exercise of economic trade is people with very different personal goals negotiating with each other in a way that both achieve a satisfactory, if not ideal result for all parties involved. Whenever you purchase something, your goal is likely to get it as cheap as possible, the person selling it wants as much money as possible. It is no different with energy. Everyone who purchases it benefits from it being cheaper, however other goals such as environmental concerns may impact fiscal concerns to the extent that it is viewed as a benefit.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
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I'll go ahead and say they

I'll go ahead and say they are idiots. The cost of transporting oil is not at all the primary factor in cost. Politics is currently the primary factor. The middle east oil barons have reduced the price of oil in an attempt to bankrupt the US and Canada's oil reclamation businesses so they can remain the primary source of oil to the world and increase dependence on their supply. It's an effective short term solution for various reasons, but in the long term it will cost them dearly.

If the cost of transporting oil were magically reduced, it would shave a few cents off the pump price, but it wouldn't result in an economic boom. Reduced gas prices would take months to show any positive impact. It would increase profits for companies that deal in transportation, but unless the price cut was quite significant it wouldn't have an immediate impact on the average person.

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Vastet wrote:The middle east

Vastet wrote:
The middle east oil barons have reduced the price of oil in an attempt to bankrupt the US and Canada's oil reclamation businesses so they can remain the primary source of oil to the world and increase dependence on their supply. It's an effective short term solution for various reasons, but in the long term it will cost them dearly.  

Slight pick, it was US oil producers who lowered the price, OPEC has had little change in production, they simply refused to stop drilling even though most of them are experiencing losses. It isn't an effective strategy because even as US companies go bankrupt, they are quickly bought and the great thing about shale is that once a drill has started, it is very cheap to cap it and then start it back up. The new company, unhampered by the large loans for startup costs can be profitable at much lower prices. There has been talk that OPEC is considering bending and reducing production and US production has only recently started slowing (9.3 million a day complared to 9.4 million) mostly due to a hiatus in expansion. I don't pay as close attention to Canada, but I believe their production hasn't seen significant decreases either. The old days of OPECS pricing npower is over. Even if they do cut production, the western producers will probably go back into expansion moide, keeping prices down.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X