Ain't it Amazing #3

Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Ain't it Amazing #3

I got to lookimng at nazi Super weapons on you tube. This came about by watching PBS and a program or two on the subject of German WW2 Weapons. BUT--- I find there's plenty of you tube videos on the nazis being connected to aleins etc. It reminded me of past theories that I've had over the years about this and came to the conclusion that it would be impossible (if there are aleins out there) for any to arrive here as yet.

 I look at the Big bang and consider --1- how long would it take th the expansion for material to form a life producing situation. 2- how far a part would the particals (of all and any size _IE planets) of matter be at that time. 3- how long would the process of evolution take to form life on another planet. 4- whats the likelyhood of them being intellegent enough to come up with the smarts to fing a way to get here. 5- They would have had to become vastly more intelligent then we at a faster rate--if so---why? (considering everything in the universe is the same age). 6- if one cannot travel the speed of light how long would it take to get here when it would have to take the speed of light to get here any time soon, becasue of the vast distances created over time.  Lets say---ummmm , 3 billion years)( the universe is 4,5 billion years) 7- If ----If --the nazis had help from the aleins doncha spoze they would have won the war. ??????. 8- why would aleins help the nazis with a war that the aliens themselves could have won hands down. (hell--they have a time machine) (apparently). If they had a time machine and were lossing the war, do you suppose they -The nazis_might have used it to get the hell out of here). 9-Why--I ask you--why, are the aleins always smarter then us--and do you really think they would help a fella as dumb as megalomaniac  Hitler. Doncha spose they would have been better off sideing with the allies. (maybe they did, huh)

As best I can make out--the distances are to great for anyone as smart as we are to have even got here yet. How da hell could we have come from another planet if we wouoldn't be here yet. ???????  And yet--there's hoards of floks out there that believe this nonsence.

When I look back at my yout when The Creature of the Black Lagoon came out--it scared us kids shitless. And all it is --is a matter of---shoot the bastid. 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
The idea that aliens have

The idea that aliens have been here isn't absolutely ridiculous. It's incredibly unlikely but as far as we know it is possible.

There's no way aliens helped the Nazi's. There's no reason for them to step in to any war. And the Nazi's did nothing to imply alien interference.

A species wouldn't have to evolve faster than us. We've had multiple mass extinctions. Basic probability suggests there's at least one planet in the universe that experienced fewer such events.
The Earth is also a young planet. There's trillions of stars like our sun which are older than our sun. Which means there's almost certainly billions more planets like Earth which are older than Earth.

Everything in the universe is not the same age. The universe is ~14 billion years old, not 4.5 billion years old. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old.

Evolution doesn't create life. Evolution is what happens when life already exists.

Within a few hundred years (barring catastrophe) we'll have a presence in other solar systems. It would be very simple for another species to have gotten here. If they had reason to. Unless by some fluke there's no intelligent life at all within a few million lightyears, or we lucked in to being the first that haven't been destroyed or destroyed ourselves (yet). Unlikely. Not impossible.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Yup

Vastet wrote:
The idea that aliens have been here isn't absolutely ridiculous. It's incredibly unlikely but as far as we know it is possible. There's no way aliens helped the Nazi's. There's no reason for them to step in to any war. And the Nazi's did nothing to imply alien interference. A species wouldn't have to evolve faster than us. We've had multiple mass extinctions. Basic probability suggests there's at least one planet in the universe that experienced fewer such events. The Earth is also a young planet. There's trillions of stars like our sun which are older than our sun. Which means there's almost certainly billions more planets like Earth which are older than Earth. Everything in the universe is not the same age. The universe is ~14 billion years old, not 4.5 billion years old. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old. Evolution doesn't create life. Evolution is what happens when life already exists. Within a few hundred years (barring catastrophe) we'll have a presence in other solar systems. It would be very simple for another species to have gotten here. If they had reason to. Unless by some fluke there's no intelligent life at all within a few million lightyears, or we lucked in to being the first that haven't been destroyed or destroyed ourselves (yet). Unlikely. Not impossible.

I understand your info. It's the absurdity of the claims that surpised me. One is--the Nazi were aleins. Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 Obviously they were

 Obviously they were aliens, haven't you seen Enterprise? *mic drop*


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
I think

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Obviously they were aliens, haven't you seen Enterprise? *mic drop*

the problem may be that Si Fi has been around for about 80 years, and has become reality for floks. It seems a new generation expands the "previous". I just looked up the nearest star---4.3 light years away. Bear in mind now--aleins are supposed top be greatly smarter then we, and why, I have no idea. They would have to be born with fore-knowledge. I can't see how someone can know things they weren't taught. Buit there is the Flat Worm that apparently inherits experiences from the previous generation. But there again, that's not articulate knowledge. Somehow aleins were born knowing things. Imagine being born with the knowledge of a Warp Drive. Hummmmm. Nah, I don't think so. I don't think they would be here yet anymore then we would be there by now. I've always liked Si Fi, but today for me, it has to conform to reasonable science possibility, like Predator, or Terminator.  A vs P---nah--interesting --but not for me.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Obviously they were aliens, haven't you seen Enterprise? *mic drop*

lol dude the Nazi's had the whitehouse in Enterprise.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:Beyond Saving

Old Seer wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Obviously they were aliens, haven't you seen Enterprise? *mic drop*

the problem may be that Si Fi has been around for about 80 years, and has become reality for floks. It seems a new generation expands the "previous". I just looked up the nearest star---4.3 light years away. Bear in mind now--aleins are supposed top be greatly smarter then we, and why, I have no idea. They would have to be born with fore-knowledge. I can't see how someone can know things they weren't taught. Buit there is the Flat Worm that apparently inherits experiences from the previous generation. But there again, that's not articulate knowledge. Somehow aleins were born knowing things. Imagine being born with the knowledge of a Warp Drive. Hummmmm. Nah, I don't think so. I don't think they would be here yet anymore then we would be there by now. I've always liked Si Fi, but today for me, it has to conform to reasonable science possibility, like Predator, or Terminator.  A vs P---nah--interesting --but not for me.

 

That's a caricature of science fiction, and it's false to boot. Most science fiction has humans as the dominant and most intelligent species. People who write about brilliant aliens are people who are bored with the typical status quo. And the fact is there's certainly billions of species out there which are more advanced than us. Writing them off the way you are is stupid. You might as well say: 'somehow humans were born with knowledge of how to build rockets and computers. Nah I don't think so'. How can you not comprehend how blatantly ridiculous that is?

Also: time machines are impossible. So Terminator is infinitely worse than any science fiction that features aliens who know more than humans do, according to your criteria.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
I understand all of that.

My point is--I don't think floks from another planet are here--yet. I didn't say or mean to say that other life forms don't exist somewhere else in the universe. I'm speculating that they aren't any more intelligent then we, and if we can't get there--they can't get here. I see no conclusive evidence that "they" are here. What I'm getting at is--in my opinion Si Fi has gotten out of hand. I'm not fasinated by the time travel in Terminator, I'm facinated by the idea of the Cyborg itself. As best I can make of it, I agree, time travel would be an impossibility. As much as I can tell, there's only the immediate present and the past--but the past is gone--it's only a memory and cannot exist physically . The present is only a miniscule instant, if even that.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote: That's a

Vastet wrote:

That's a caricature of science fiction, and it's false to boot. Most science fiction has humans as the dominant and most intelligent species. People who write about brilliant aliens are people who are bored with the typical status quo. And the fact is there's certainly billions of species out there which are more advanced than us. Writing them off the way you are is stupid. You might as well say: 'somehow humans were born with knowledge of how to build rockets and computers. Nah I don't think so'. How can you not comprehend how blatantly ridiculous that is?

Also: time machines are impossible. So Terminator is infinitely worse than any science fiction that features aliens who know more than humans do, according to your criteria.




yeah, most of asimov's and clarke's books focus almost exclusively on humans. i remember one of asimov's robot stories (an early one, i think) having primitive aliens on jupiter. i don't recall any of his robot, empire, or foundation novels having any aliens at all. clarke's books have intelligent aliens but usually the humans only catch fleeting glimpses of them, if at all.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
iwbiek wrote:Vastet

iwbiek wrote:
Vastet wrote:

That's a caricature of science fiction, and it's false to boot. Most science fiction has humans as the dominant and most intelligent species. People who write about brilliant aliens are people who are bored with the typical status quo. And the fact is there's certainly billions of species out there which are more advanced than us. Writing them off the way you are is stupid. You might as well say: 'somehow humans were born with knowledge of how to build rockets and computers. Nah I don't think so'. How can you not comprehend how blatantly ridiculous that is?

Also: time machines are impossible. So Terminator is infinitely worse than any science fiction that features aliens who know more than humans do, according to your criteria.




yeah, most of asimov's and clarke's books focus almost exclusively on humans. i remember one of asimov's robot stories (an early one, i think) having primitive aliens on jupiter. i don't recall any of his robot, empire, or foundation novels having any aliens at all. clarke's books have intelligent aliens but usually the humans only catch fleeting glimpses of them, if at all.


Star Trek & Star Wars did it too. Trek went so far as to introduce more advanced species only to give them such incredible character flaws as to nullify their advances. Vulcan logic was constantly overrun by human emotion. And the god species Q was given the characteristics of a child playing with toys.
Star Wars gave humans authority over the galaxy. The books changed it up a bit, but the movies were human dominated.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
My main point is

Old Seer wrote:

I got to lookimng at nazi Super weapons on you tube. This came about by watching PBS and a program or two on the subject of German WW2 Weapons. BUT--- I find there's plenty of you tube videos on the nazis being connected to aleins etc. It reminded me of past theories that I've had over the years about this and came to the conclusion that it would be impossible (if there are aleins out there) for any to arrive here as yet.

 I look at the Big bang and consider --1- how long would it take th the expansion for material to form a life producing situation. 2- how far a part would the particals (of all and any size _IE planets) of matter be at that time. 3- how long would the process of evolution take to form life on another planet. 4- whats the likelyhood of them being intellegent enough to come up with the smarts to fing a way to get here. 5- They would have had to become vastly more intelligent then we at a faster rate--if so---why? (considering everything in the universe is the same age). 6- if one cannot travel the speed of light how long would it take to get here when it would have to take the speed of light to get here any time soon, becasue of the vast distances created over time.  Lets say---ummmm , 3 billion years)( the universe is 4,5 billion years) 7- If ----If --the nazis had help from the aleins doncha spoze they would have won the war. ??????. 8- why would aleins help the nazis with a war that the aliens themselves could have won hands down. (hell--they have a time machine) (apparently). If they had a time machine and were lossing the war, do you suppose they -The nazis_might have used it to get the hell out of here). 9-Why--I ask you--why, are the aleins always smarter then us--and do you really think they would help a fella as dumb as megalomaniac  Hitler. Doncha spose they would have been better off sideing with the allies. (maybe they did, huh)

As best I can make out--the distances are to great for anyone as smart as we are to have even got here yet. How da hell could we have come from another planet if we wouoldn't be here yet. ???????  And yet--there's hoards of floks out there that believe this nonsence.

When I look back at my yout when The Creature of the Black Lagoon came out--it scared us kids shitless. And all it is --is a matter of---shoot the bastid. 

Extra terrestrials couldn't have made it here as yet. SETI has been operating for about 20 years now with no hint of inteligently made radio waves. Over a period of 20 years would equal 20 light years--so that means that it's very unlikely that there are any established intelligent entities closer then 20 light years, as seen so far. But what if inteligent life came about 1000 years before SETI was set up and that at this time hasn't been detected then either. that means that (if one were to go by this) there's no intelligent beings as far out as 1000 light years. So then-lets say that the evolved 5 million years before us and became intelligent--that would mean that there's no one is in the area of 5 million light years from here. So, this idea of aleins getting here is an impossibility. This of course would depend uopn if and when they learned to use radio (electomagnetic) wave systems. So far it looks as though they (if they're there-inlelligent beings) they haven't developed radio comunications or they're not close enough to detect them. Then again--how far away would they have to be to create radio waves that can't be detected by us here. So--Aleins couldn't have arrived here as yet, of course, that would be acording to SETI.

If the Andrmeda Galaxy is 25 light years away and there's no signal from there then it's not likely there'anyone closer. If everything in our galaxy is less the distance from here to Andrmeda, the 25 light years is to far for detecting electromagnetics produced by intelligence. If SETi can detect any intelligently made electromagnetics in our galaxy then one can safely assume that there's no intelligent floks in this galaxy. Over 20 years with that detectable possiblity someone intelligent out there should be known by now. If someone out there is as intelligent as we they very likely would have discovered electromagnetic effects by now if they've been there for at least 20000 years. I would say --they haven't been here yet.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
By all the gaming gods

By all the gaming gods that's a huge steaming pile of bs.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
If SETI

hasn't detected anything from as far as Alpha Centuri or it's direction, no aleins arrived here as yet. There's no one in the vacinity that has the knowledge to build a radio, (other then us) at least powerful enough for the signal to get here. If detectable radio waves haven't arrive here as yet, then neither did they.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:hasn't

Old Seer wrote:

hasn't detected anything from as far as Alpha Centuri or it's direction, no aleins arrived here as yet. There's no one in the vacinity that has the knowledge to build a radio, (other then us) at least powerful enough for the signal to get here. If detectable radio waves haven't arrive here as yet, then neither did they.

You are aware that radio messages are not just magically detected? Most of what I have read indicates that beyond a few light years, you would have to have a large array pointed directly at the source. There is a shit ton of interference, even if you knew precisely where Earth was and was and knew a signal was coming, it is not a certainty that you could isolate it from the noise. If you were an alien, you might just interpret the signal as noise. Or, it is quite possible that they decided not to respond. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Got it .:)

Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

hasn't detected anything from as far as Alpha Centuri or it's direction, no aleins arrived here as yet. There's no one in the vacinity that has the knowledge to build a radio, (other then us) at least powerful enough for the signal to get here. If detectable radio waves haven't arrive here as yet, then neither did they.

You are aware that radio messages are not just magically detected? Most of what I have read indicates that beyond a few light years, you would have to have a large array pointed directly at the source. There is a shit ton of interference, even if you knew precisely where Earth was and was and knew a signal was coming, it is not a certainty that you could isolate it from the noise. If you were an alien, you might just interpret the signal as noise. Or, it is quite possible that they decided not to respond. 

But the concern of my post  is, did they get here yet. Useing the speed of light one can reason the posibilities. How many 1000s of years at 40,000 MPH would it take to arrive here from the closest star--which is the 3 star cluster Alpha Centuri at 4.3 light years distant. Lets say that it would take 100,000 years.

After the big bang there would have been many planets formed around stars about the same time as ours. Then---there should be intelligent life out there. what matters in this case is the distance between those planets. I don't know just how powerful a radio beam would have to be to get here from there. However--if Aleins have been going to and fro then they would be in our vacinity to be able to detect any radio transmissions they may produce---becasue they would be here. They would have contact (presumably) to their home planet. Those transmissions would be arriving here also and be detected. Unless thet're capable of ESP they can'r be here due to distance, and/or undetected radio waves. If they're evolutionary rate would be the same as ours (which I take as most likely) then they don'thave the tech to make the trip. If planets produce life at the same means and conditions then there'sno reason to see why they would be more intelligently evolved then we, as the same condition produce the same results. So far ascan be seen DNA produces what we have here as life. There's no reason to see  that DNA there would do any different-that is--it produces a flesh physical body of some kind.  If Aleins are in this vacinity there would be detectable signals, in a strange lanquage most likely.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 It is extraordinarily

 It is extraordinarily unlikely there is life in the Alpha Centauri system. There is only a single planet and it is even disputed whether it is a planet or not. It is closer to Alpha Centauri B than Mercury is to our sun so any life at all would upend our entire idea of habitable zones, let alone complex intelligent life. Further out, it becomes increasingly likely that we wouldn't have a clue. Until recently, the last hundred years or so, a spaceship could have floated right past us and we wouldn't have had a clue. There is no reason to believe that if intelligent life was traveling the stars that we have a reasonable chance of discovering it. We know very little beyond our solar system and there is even much within it that we don't know. To assume that any extraterrestrial life would replicate using DNA similar to us is a completely unwarranted assumption.

The only honest answer is that we have no clue. We are prehistoric man gazing at an ocean when we can barely build a raft and making up stories, which are no doubt both grander than reality, and only a tenth as wonderous as what we will discover when we figure out how to build ships.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
A spaceship could still

A spaceship could still float right past us and we wouldn't have a clue. Even we are developing cloaking materials that cover the entire EM field. Any species capable of visiting us would almost certainly have perfected the technology by our standards.

The main thing is that Old Seer is incredibly ignorant on this subject, and anything he says should be ignored: because it's wrong. Hopelessly and absolutely wrong. As wrong as dividing by 0. As wrong as saying 100000000 = 3.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
To find

Beyond Saving wrote:

 It is extraordinarily unlikely there is life in the Alpha Centauri system. There is only a single planet and it is even disputed whether it is a planet or not. It is closer to Alpha Centauri B than Mercury is to our sun so any life at all would upend our entire idea of habitable zones, let alone complex intelligent life. Further out, it becomes increasingly likely that we wouldn't have a clue. Until recently, the last hundred years or so, a spaceship could have floated right past us and we wouldn't have had a clue. There is no reason to believe that if intelligent life was traveling the stars that we have a reasonable chance of discovering it. We know very little beyond our solar system and there is even much within it that we don't know. To assume that any extraterrestrial life would replicate using DNA similar to us is a completely unwarranted assumption.

The only honest answer is that we have no clue. We are prehistoric man gazing at an ocean when we can barely build a raft and making up stories, which are no doubt both grander than reality, and only a tenth as wonderous as what we will discover when we figure out how to build ships.

life on another planet will be a hard find, I agree. I used Alpha Centuri as a reference of distance, 4.3 light years. The thing is, how much signal dissapartion occurs at that distance to detect radio waves. In August 1955 I pointed a flashlight up at night wondering how far it would go. I've thought about that over the years at times. That light will be 60 light years away next month. At that distance it's not likely that a single photon from that beam would even enter one's eye.

Now that's something to think about--a different building block for life other then DNA.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Coincedently

there was a segment on yesterdays PBS news on SETI. I was wrong that Andrmeda was 25 light yers distant--it's 2.5 billion. The fella said they,re searching galaxies for intelligent life. That means if there's floks in the Andromeda gallaxy they would have had to start broadcasting 2.5 billion years ago. That's half the age of the universe at 4.5 billion. The radio transmission isn't going to be here any time soon as I see it. The dissapation of the radio wave woud be tremendous and may not be detectable. Or, it'll be absorbed and reflected by other matter in it's path. One could safely say there's no one here from the Andromeda galaxy.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
*Bangs head into wall

*Bangs head into wall repeatedly*

Your ignorance is mind boggling. Did you never even go to grade school? wtf

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
OK

Vastet wrote:
*Bangs head into wall repeatedly* Your ignorance is mind boggling. Did you never even go to grade school? wtf
Give us your rundown on how your favorite Extraterrestrial Traveler managed to go past our planet. I don't want that it's "possible, I want to know "how" you know that it's possible and the general infomtion of "what" means makes it possible. I know how it's possible and how it's impossible, but lets get it from you. Start from the Big Bang.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
*Bangs head into wall repeatedly* Your ignorance is mind boggling. Did you never even go to grade school? wtf
Give us your rundown on how your favorite Extraterrestrial Traveler managed to go past our planet. I don't want that it's "possible, I want to know "how" you know that it's possible and the general infomtion of "what" means makes it possible. I know how it's possible and how it's impossible, but lets get it from you. Start from the Big Bang.

 




of course it's possible. everybody knows it's possible, just because of all the unknown variables. the mere possibility of something needs no proof and can't be proved anyway. you're assuming the aliens work with the same technology we do, albeit possibly more advanced. there could be ways of communicating across the cosmos that don't involve radio waves at all, and might be instantaneous. even arthur c. clarke wrote about the possibility of faster than light travel. for example, in the space odyssey books, the aliens can use the monoliths as gateways to connect vastly distant parts of the universe. it's just that things like faster than light travel don't fit with the paradigm we know now, so physicists as yet can't figure it into their calculations, but i think very few of them would categorically say it's "impossible." for all we know, aliens have learned to utilize something like wormholes to zip from one end of the universe to the other, and completely ignore radio waves the way we don't bother to communicate through cans connected with string.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:Vastet

Old Seer wrote:

Vastet wrote:
*Bangs head into wall repeatedly* Your ignorance is mind boggling. Did you never even go to grade school? wtf
Give us your rundown on how your favorite Extraterrestrial Traveler managed to go past our planet. I don't want that it's "possible, I want to know "how" you know that it's possible and the general infomtion of "what" means makes it possible. I know how it's possible and how it's impossible, but lets get it from you. Start from the Big Bang.

 

The possibility of aliens coming here has nothing to do with my comments. My issue is that you are spewing a bunch of nonsense and that you think it proves aliens couldn't get here. I'm used to people who can't comprehend the vastness of space and time, but you don't even get the numbers right, let alone comprehend what the numbers signify.

Just for the hell of it, I'll prove your whole argument wrong from step 1.

~14 billion years ago, the big bang. For hundreds of thousands of years, there's just a mess of particles too hot to even form an atom. Then things cool down enough that neutrons and protons start combining to form ionised atoms of mostly hydrogen, and a little bit of helium. They attract electrons, stabalise, and suddenly the fog that permeated the entire universe is gone, and it's possible to see further than a few metres. (even if there was visual evidence of the big bang, we will never see it because the free floating electrons in the early years scattered light, making the universe opaque to the entire electromagnetic spectrum)

Around the time the first atoms form, the first stars start to coalesce. Giant blue super stars that are completely hydrogen and helium, because there isn't any other element yet. These stars, for the first time, begin fusing hydrogen into helium. In not too long a time (the first stars died quickly) the hydrogen mostly runs out and the stars get hot enough to fuse helium into carbon. Then carbon into magnesium (the first metal), oxygen, and neon. Then neon is fused into more oxygen and magnesium. Then oxygen into silicon. Then silicon is fused into iron, and no further fusion is possible; and the stars explode. Now elements other than hydrogen and helium are, for the first time, strewn throughout the universe. Only a few million years have passed since the big bang, and already there is enough materials to say that life could form. Though it is highly unlikely to survive long or even form in the first place: it is possible. 13+ billion years ago.

Since life is now possible, we can assume that it happened. Life is a chemical reaction, and chemical reactions happen the instant it becomes possible for them to happen. The universe isn't even a billion years old, and it has life.

But that life is very rare, like the elements the first stars fused. Probably less than 1 galaxy in a million has sufficient conditions to support life for more than a short time.

But as the first stars died, a new generation of stars was born from their ashes. Some were more like our sun than any in the first generation, others more like the original hydrogen/helium stars (hydrogen is still the most common element today). This second generation of stars contributed to the fusion of heavier elements, and made iron significantly more common. When the second generation of stars began to explode, and the third generation arose (our sun is a third generation star), life became MUCH more likely.

Because first and many second generation stars burned for only a few million years, it is possible that the first third generation stars are as much as 13 billion years old. Stars with sufficient elements and conditions to make our solar system were possible ~9 billion years before our solar system existed.

Now we'll switch to the examination of the rise of intelligence.

The Earth is about 4.5 billion years old, and it took about 800 million years (so far as we can tell) before life formed. Some postulate it was possible for life to form much earlier, within 200 million years, but the first evidence of it was after the Earth was 800 million years old.

But life isn't inherently intelligent, at least not enough so that we have to worry about microbes building nukes. It wasn't until about half a billion years ago that life exploded in diversity, and multicellular creatures became commonplace. We can't explain what took so long, so lets assume it takes about 3 billion years for life to become multicellular. Adding a billion years for life to form in the first place, you have a little under 4 billion years for life to form, and evolve into multicellular creatures.

It took less than 100 million years from this point for life to colonise the entire planet. Within 50 million years, vertebrates with jaws and limbs populated the Earth.

Because evolution is driven by environment, the next 300 million years can be considered as largely irrelevant. Under other local conditions, things would never have happened as they did. The Earth was very hot and dry, which paved the way for the rise of reptiles and then dinosaurs.

Now there's no way to prove whether or not any of the species around back then became intelligent. All we can say for sure is that even if they acquired intelligence, they never got as far as nuclear technology before they were wiped out. For the sake of being overly conservative, lets assume they couldn't have been intelligent. But as I point out, that really doesn't matter. If land masses had been located in more favourable locations, it very well could have been mammals that rose up first. And we know mammals can be intelligent.

So lets skip 300 million years ahead to the rise of mammals. It took less than 65 million years to go from little rodents to rocket launching humans. In fact, 99% of human advancement took place in a 200 year period, which isn't even measurable on a universal scale. In half of a fraction of a second we went from berry picking occasional hunters to the dominant species, blowing up nukes and sending things into space. Moore's law says that advancement will double every ten or so years, and to a large extent that has proven true.

So the rise of intelligence happens extremely quickly, once it happens.

So now lets look at all the figures. The first life was possible 13 billion years ago. Intelligent life possibly takes as much as 4 billion years. So the first intelligent life in the universe was possible 9 billion years ago.

So how long would it take to travel here? Well the first step is getting out of your own solar system, and your sun works against you. New Horizons had the fastest launch speed of any probe yet launched, yet both Voyager probes are currently moving faster because the sun slowed NH down so much, and it couldn't get slingshot gravity boosts from any outer planet after Jupiter. The record setting speeds belong to probes sent towards the sun, not away from it. That was about 241,000 km/h. At that speed it would take 1.6 billion years to travel a light year. A probe planned for launch in 2018 is expected to hit 724,000 km/h, which would reduce the travel time for a lightyear by a factor of 3. 1.6 billion years turns into 533 million years. Since the travel time is so long, one would likely use ion technology instead of chemical technology. Acceleration would suffer as a result, but top speed would be increased by a good 10x over. Suddenly a 1.6 billion year journey has been reduced to 53 million years. And we haven't even been going to space for a century. There's no way to predict how fast we will be able to go in 50 or a hundred more years, even ignoring any wormhole or faster-than-light technologies.

But for the sake of this bs we'll limit ourselves to 53 million years per lightyear.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
So 53 million years per

So 53 million years per lightyear, and 9 billion years to work with, gives you a range of 170 lightyears. We have been looking for any transmissions since radio was invented at the start of the 20th century, but it wasn't until the 1980's that it was more than a hobby for a very few people.

Of course, any species that launched a ship our way from a planet 170 lightyears away 9 billion years ago wouldn't be detectable by radio anymore, and wouldn't have been detectable for about 9 billion years. There's very little radio leakage from Earth these days. In 50 years there won't be any at all, and noone looking at us from a lightyear away will see anything.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Very good---excellent

Vastet wrote:
So 53 million years per lightyear, and 9 billion years to work with, gives you a range of 170 lightyears. We have been looking for any transmissions since radio was invented at the start of the 20th century, but it wasn't until the 1980's that it was more than a hobby for a very few people. Of course, any species that launched a ship our way from a planet 170 lightyears away 9 billion years ago wouldn't be detectable by radio anymore, and wouldn't have been detectable for about 9 billion years. There's very little radio leakage from Earth these days. In 50 years there won't be any at all, and noone looking at us from a lightyear away will see anything.

Buit from this I can't determine if you actually think there are Aleins from another planet present here on this planet. What you're telling me is you know the perspectives and possiblities--but that dosen't put Mr. alein on this planet. Yes- I do know that the universe is vast---hence the problem. My Alein isn't here, and can't get here under present circumstances at present--thart we know of. How would your Alein get here--by what means, what manner of space craft and whats it's capabilities. If it'scorrect that one cannot travel the speed of light then that can't be used. I do understand warp drives---but thats a theory and has no explanation (that I know of) how to make that work. Ay this time it's a matter of "if" one could produce it. Then, if you're going to say that they "could have" developed a warp drive  that still does,t put an alein on planet Earth.

Now, your time and events from the big bang forward are "ifs". And at the end you came up with 170 light years to use. I can do the same and come up with a billion if I want to, but--if this and if that. If you come up with the warp drive how are you going to avoid celestial objects. You can use a warp drive "if" you don't smash into any objects. I can make anything work just as well as you can. Your information from the big bang onward is impressive, yes, and a good work. But, are you sure it's not just what you want it to be. I'm taking it thet you took that into account and avoided fancey whims.

You total to 170 light years. That's not a walk in the park,as I'm sure you know. BUT, how will you personaly traverse that (if you figures are rasonalby correct)with a space craft without killing yourself. OK, so now here we go--the aleins "could have" evolved supersmart", right. I don't mean that to be a negative toward you but we,re going back to tha OP aren't we. Which is, how da duece did they get here if they did. Now, "if" they evolved super smart that solves everything. Super5 Smart is the common way (common denominader) to make the aleins capable of anything.  (get my drift).

To traverse the 170 light years would you have refueling along the way---what is the fuel goi9ng to be etc etc etc. Theoretically without any of these problems one can go any where theoretically---but in actual practice---one is not going anywhere.

What you have to do now is--put yourself in a space craft and figure everything  from there. You are going to find insurmountable problems figuring out how you are going to traverse that distance of 170 light years, "if" your figures are correct.

OK, lets look at iwbieks worm hole. (no offense intended iw) That'll work --sometimes. but that only "if" one can go through a wormhole and come out the other side alive.  Going through a worm hole is strictly an "if one can/could" deal. And one can't. A wormholeas I understand it, works in conjuction with a black hole. I don't know for sure but I have a hunch that one won't survive it. Flesh blood and bone are not compatable with a black hole as I understand it anyway. 

It all depends upon "If" all iof thease "ifs" are overcome. Until then your alien may be ableto get here ot ever got here, but mine didn't and can't., and I don't mean this in an offensive manner. Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:Buit from

Old Seer wrote:
Buit from this I can't determine if you actually think there are Aleins from another planet present here on this planet.

I doubt very much that there are any aliens here, but there could be.

Old Seer wrote:
My Alein isn't here, and can't get here under present circumstances at present--thart we know of.

I JUST FUCKING SHOWED YOU HE COULD GET HERE!!!! Did you even read my post, or are you so stupid that you don't even qualify as human?

Old Seer wrote:
If it'scorrect that one cannot travel the speed of light then that can't be used. I do understand warp drives---but thats a theory and has no explanation (that I know of) how to make that work. Ay this time it's a matter of "if" one could produce it. Then, if you're going to say that they "could have" developed a warp drive  that still does,t put an alein on planet Earth.

I completely ignored light speed and went with technology we have today. Right fucking now.

Old Seer wrote:
Now, your time and events from the big bang forward are "ifs".

No, they are facts. Almost every single thing I said is proven fact. Look it up.
The ONLY speculation I made was regarding the first life forms, and they'd be proven fact too if we were talking a few hundred years from now. I'd probably actually have WAY overestimated the length of time it took for the first intelligence to develop.

Old Seer wrote:
And at the end you came up with 170 light years to use. I can do the same and come up with a billion if I want to, but--if this and if that.

No, you can't. A billion light years? You are actually the dumbest person I ever spoke to. Even dumber than Brian, and that's saying something. It's a miracle you can comprehend that you need to eat in order to live. In fact, you probably can't. It's probably just instinct keeping you going. You parrot all these things you heard without even beginning to comprehend what they mean. A fucking baby has more brains than you. It knows well enough to shut the fuck up and actually learn something at least.

Old Seer wrote:
If you come up with the warp drive how are you going to avoid celestial objects. You can use a warp drive "if" you don't smash into any objects. I can make anything work just as well as you can. Your information from the big bang onward is impressive, yes, and a good work. But, are you sure it's not just what you want it to be. I'm taking it thet you took that into account and avoided fancey whims.

Get this through your thick fucking skull: I IGNORED LIGHT SPEED AND USED ENGINE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE TODAY.

Old Seer wrote:
To traverse the 170 light years would you have refueling along the way---what is the fuel goi9ng to be etc etc etc.

Fuel is EVERYWHERE. Hydrogen is fuel, and hydrogen is the most common element in the universe. You really think it's impossible to find some? Idiot.

Old Seer wrote:
Theoretically without any of these problems one can go any where theoretically---but in actual practice---one is not going anywhere.

Says you. In reality, the moment you leave the suns gravitic influence, you are travelling 220 kilometres per second away from our solar system, just by floating in place. You could just sit there and wait for another solar system to fly by. It won't take long.

Old Seer wrote:
What you have to do now is--put yourself in a space craft and figure everything  from there. You are going to find insurmountable problems figuring out how you are going to traverse that distance of 170 light years, "if" your figures are correct.

Says you. Funny how you can't even name one insurmountable problem.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
So far

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:
Buit from this I can't determine if you actually think there are Aleins from another planet present here on this planet.
I doubt very much that there are any aliens here, but there could be.
Old Seer wrote:
My Alein isn't here, and can't get here under present circumstances at present--thart we know of.
I JUST FUCKING SHOWED YOU HE COULD GET HERE!!!! Did you even read my post, or are you so stupid that you don't even qualify as human?
Old Seer wrote:
If it'scorrect that one cannot travel the speed of light then that can't be used. I do understand warp drives---but thats a theory and has no explanation (that I know of) how to make that work. Ay this time it's a matter of "if" one could produce it. Then, if you're going to say that they "could have" developed a warp drive  that still does,t put an alein on planet Earth.
I completely ignored light speed and went with technology we have today. Right fucking now.
Old Seer wrote:
Now, your time and events from the big bang forward are "ifs".
No, they are facts. Almost every single thing I said is proven fact. Look it up. The ONLY speculation I made was regarding the first life forms, and they'd be proven fact too if we were talking a few hundred years from now. I'd probably actually have WAY overestimated the length of time it took for the first intelligence to develop.
Old Seer wrote:
And at the end you came up with 170 light years to use. I can do the same and come up with a billion if I want to, but--if this and if that.
No, you can't. A billion light years? You are actually the dumbest person I ever spoke to. Even dumber than Brian, and that's saying something. It's a miracle you can comprehend that you need to eat in order to live. In fact, you probably can't. It's probably just instinct keeping you going. You parrot all these things you heard without even beginning to comprehend what they mean. A fucking baby has more brains than you. It knows well enough to shut the fuck up and actually learn something at least.
Old Seer wrote:
If you come up with the warp drive how are you going to avoid celestial objects. You can use a warp drive "if" you don't smash into any objects. I can make anything work just as well as you can. Your information from the big bang onward is impressive, yes, and a good work. But, are you sure it's not just what you want it to be. I'm taking it thet you took that into account and avoided fancey whims.
Get this through your thick fucking skull: I IGNORED LIGHT SPEED AND USED ENGINE TECHNOLOGY WE HAVE TODAY.
Old Seer wrote:
To traverse the 170 light years would you have refueling along the way---what is the fuel goi9ng to be etc etc etc.
Fuel is EVERYWHERE. Hydrogen is fuel, and hydrogen is the most common element in the universe. You really think it's impossible to find some? Idiot.
Old Seer wrote:
Theoretically without any of these problems one can go any where theoretically---but in actual practice---one is not going anywhere.
Says you. In reality, the moment you leave the suns gravitic influence, you are travelling 220 kilometres per second away from our solar system, just by floating in place. You could just sit there and wait for another solar system to fly by. It won't take long.
Old Seer wrote:
What you have to do now is--put yourself in a space craft and figure everything  from there. You are going to find insurmountable problems figuring out how you are going to traverse that distance of 170 light years, "if" your figures are correct.
Says you. Funny how you can't even name one insurmountable problem.

haven't come up with a single thing that I haven't encountered at some time in my life. There's free hydrogen everywhere or most everywhere in space. One can collect the hydrogen and use it for fuel. But,it's so sparse it's an imparctical concept. There's not enough of it, It requires coasting long enough with collectors to get enough to make anoither engine start. You'll never collect enough to put on the brakes when needed. How many life time do you suppose it would take to go the 170 light years with convental engines--and that's all you can depend on. Collect it on the way=no way. On the first count your ship would have to be the size of a mini planet. You would have to grow plants for food---how much dirt would you have to take along---oh---hydroponics right. no,thats worse then dirt. How about gravity--how areyou going to keep all that dirt in one palce. How about internal atmosphric filters---got any---and where are you going to stop over to get some new ones. The process has to be done by building outward from the home planet establishing way stations so you can get back--(unless you're not going back-which you're not becasue you're going to be dead--from quite a number of causes.

I'm not new at this by any means. I even came up with---yup-that's right---rowing across the distance when there's not enough sunlight---not like rowing a boat, but using the energy of excersize machines to drive thrusters, people power---but--no good---ya have to feed your people something to come up with the current for the thrusters,right. The distance covered is equal to the time you run out of food and then----you take it from here. Let's see your space craft, describe this thing of yours. collectin fuel along the way isn't going to get you there. Went over that years ago and it don't work. You're telling ME to do the math---I've alrady done that in my teens. what you have as a proposal that will NOT work. been there- thought of that. I wasn't born yesterday. It's plain to see--you are a victim as described in the OP Si Fi fantasy. Come up with a ship that can span 170 light years travel.---You can't.

Have you invented a reaction thruster yet. I'll bet not, I did. Ever heard of a unidirectional thruster, I'll bet not. neither works very well so they're out. How about useing the weight of the supplies on borad for reactive thrust, I'll be you haven't thought of it or even heard of it. Well. it works but not well enough. What happens wheb the suplies are gone---no thrust, not a good idea. What can you come up with--be inventive. Lets seeit. I'll bet i aready thought of it or seen it.  Forget gatering fuel along the way-there isn't any in 170 light years that could easily be found or encountered.

The insurmountable problem is---you can't travel the speed of light. And being so you're going no where becasue the distances require it ot youi die along the way.

Your alein can get here---yes--if you idea works. If

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:So far

Old Seer wrote:
So far haven't come up with a single thing that I haven't encountered at some time in my life.

That's because you aren't actually reading what I say. You think the universe is 4.5 billion years old and that Andromeda is 45 light years away. You know absolutely nothing about radio, nothing about conventional propulsion, nothing about logic, nothing about math, nothing about biology, and nothing about chemistry. You watched a few episodes of Star Trek as a kid, and listened to some crackpot conspiracy theory toting moron, and you think you know everything. You're as ignorant as a mushroom, and as unwilling to be educated as Brian.

Old Seer wrote:
But,it's so sparse it's an imparctical concept. There's not enough of it, It requires coasting long enough with collectors to get enough to make anoither engine start.

Bullshit. Stars and planets collect the stuff like it was going out of style. Stop off at any star and you'll have more than you can ever use.

Old Seer wrote:
You'll never collect enough to put on the brakes when needed.

Obviously you wouldn't. I bet anyone actually capable of planning a space flight has more brains than you do though, and would indeed have enough fuel set aside to put on the brakes.

Old Seer wrote:
How many life time do you suppose it would take to go the 170 light years with convental engines--and that's all you can depend on.

I told you already. If you'd actually read what I say you wouldn't ask stupid questions like this.

Old Seer wrote:
On the first count your ship would have to be the size of a mini planet.

Brainless twat waffle. How the fuck did we send a car sized satellite outside the solar system if we'd need a planet to carry that much fuel?

Old Seer wrote:
You would have to grow plants for food---how much dirt would you have to take along---oh---hydroponics right. no,thats worse then dirt.

No moron, hydroponics would work fine. But we wouldn't need it anyway. With a few 3D printers we'd have all the meat and plants we'd ever need.

Old Seer wrote:
How about gravity--how areyou going to keep all that dirt in one palce.

It's called centrifugal force, fuckwit.

Old Seer wrote:
How about internal atmosphric filters---got any---and where are you going to stop over to get some new ones.

Yep, and don't need new ones either.

Old Seer wrote:
The process has to be done by building outward from the home planet establishing way stations so you can get back--(unless you're not going back-which you're not becasue you're going to be dead--from quite a number of causes.

Says you, without a single reason why.

Old Seer wrote:
I'm not new at this by any means.

Yes, you are. Because I'm new at this and I'm obliterating you with ease. You don't have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.

Old Seer wrote:
I even came up with---yup-that's right---rowing across the distance when there's not enough sunlight-

Fucking rowing? In space?!! You fucking shit brained fool. I'm done with you. You have less intelligence and knowledge than a piece of fly shit.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:The

Edit: Vastet's reply is better, I'm just going to eat some popcorn.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Absolutely rediculous.

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:
So far haven't come up with a single thing that I haven't encountered at some time in my life.
That's because you aren't actually reading what I say. You think the universe is 4.5 billion years old and that Andromeda is 45 light years away. You know absolutely nothing about radio, nothing about conventional propulsion, nothing about logic, nothing about math, nothing about biology, and nothing about chemistry. You watched a few episodes of Star Trek as a kid, and listened to some crackpot conspiracy theory toting moron, and you think you know everything. You're as ignorant as a mushroom, and as unwilling to be educated as Brian.
Old Seer wrote:
But,it's so sparse it's an imparctical concept. There's not enough of it, It requires coasting long enough with collectors to get enough to make anoither engine start.
Bullshit. Stars and planets collect the stuff like it was going out of style. Stop off at any star and you'll have more than you can ever use.
Old Seer wrote:
You'll never collect enough to put on the brakes when needed.
Obviously you wouldn't. I bet anyone actually capable of planning a space flight has more brains than you do though, and would indeed have enough fuel set aside to put on the brakes.
Old Seer wrote:
How many life time do you suppose it would take to go the 170 light years with convental engines--and that's all you can depend on.
I told you already. If you'd actually read what I say you wouldn't ask stupid questions like this.
Old Seer wrote:
On the first count your ship would have to be the size of a mini planet.
Brainless twat waffle. How the fuck did we send a car sized satellite outside the solar system if we'd need a planet to carry that much fuel?
Old Seer wrote:
You would have to grow plants for food---how much dirt would you have to take along---oh---hydroponics right. no,thats worse then dirt.
No moron, hydroponics would work fine. But we wouldn't need it anyway. With a few 3D printers we'd have all the meat and plants we'd ever need.
Old Seer wrote:
How about gravity--how areyou going to keep all that dirt in one palce.
It's called centrifugal force, fuckwit.
Old Seer wrote:
How about internal atmosphric filters---got any---and where are you going to stop over to get some new ones.
Yep, and don't need new ones either.
Old Seer wrote:
The process has to be done by building outward from the home planet establishing way stations so you can get back--(unless you're not going back-which you're not becasue you're going to be dead--from quite a number of causes.
Says you, without a single reason why.
Old Seer wrote:
I'm not new at this by any means.
Yes, you are. Because I'm new at this and I'm obliterating you with ease. You don't have the slightest fucking clue what you're talking about.
Old Seer wrote:
I even came up with---yup-that's right---rowing across the distance when there's not enough sunlight-
Fucking rowing? In space?!! You fucking shit brained fool. I'm done with you. You have less intelligence and knowledge than a piece of fly shit.
BTW. Since my experiments as a kid and into my grown years other scientist have come up with some of these very same ideas. One is---a space crafte cam actually be slig shot through spave by orbiting and sliging off--no fuel needed. You're classic victim of Si Fi creep. I understand your food printer and know how that works also. Whats the sense when it's no even needed. I know about cetrfical force being used for gravity. All my space craft were desiged with it. I said--I wasn't born yesterday. Your alein is dead enrout, no doubt about that. Yiou didn'ttake into account --how do you keep your hydroponics in o9rder when it will be necessary to stop rotation. Thjere will be reaons to do so. Si Fi creep, hands down.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
^ Idiot doesn't even

^ Idiot doesn't even understand the basic physics of a lever. Something humanity completely conquered so long ago we don't even know who came up with it.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
I,m seeking another opinion

Vastet wrote:
^ Idiot doesn't even understand the basic physics of a lever. Something humanity completely conquered so long ago we don't even know who came up with it.

I emailed a Physicist to have a look at this. I'll know tomorrow.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Know what? You're wilfully

Know what? You're wilfully incapable of learning anything. And you're stupid enough to think you can escape a gravity well without fuel, as well as thinking that doing so would somehow be more effective than actually using an engine that uses fuel. You can't get anything right.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
No

Vastet wrote:
Know what? You're wilfully incapable of learning anything. And you're stupid enough to think you can escape a gravity well without fuel, as well as thinking that doing so would somehow be more effective than actually using an engine that uses fuel. You can't get anything right.
I made experiments and etc. You, re making things up to fit what you want. The Prof called and said you Alien didn't make it. According to him the only stupid thing I've done was get into a converstaion with you. I'm exactly right. All the thoreticals and "ifies"don't get you across the Galaxy. Your Alien died enrout on what he refered to as "the cosmic sanding belt". Your Aliens craft was beat to pieces by space debris that cannot be avoided ovr the span of time and distance, If one were able to put a straight tube the dictance of your route and be qable to see out the other end---you wouldn't be albe to. All you would see id space debris and your alien would run into every bit of it. The is one if the insurrmountable problems. Ifyou had a glass viewing port forward, after a bout 2 light years it woilf look like being frosted over from the small particales striking it. Your Alien did not pass go, collect 200 dollars and went straight to hell. He wants tyo know (if you would post it please) what you're going to do fora crew. Your crew has about an 80 yeras life span--who are you going to replace them with on a voyage that will take 20 or more life times.

He roared with laugjhter when he encountered the common denominator. It's the best description of the Si Fi problem he's ever come across. he's always had to deal with the "Si Fi problem" as he called it, with new students that he made up a speech at the beginning of each year informinn them that--from now on we deal with reality--etc etc. He had to over come the video games, compuitior games and Si Fi TV shows. He said I have no idea how all that has formed or been integrated into todays reality of the kids.

He said my understanding of Si Fi Crreep is exatly correct, he had to deal with it continuiiously. He learned to overlook it and carry on knowing the student woulf learn differently over time. 

And, just as I knew--you're not stopping off anywhere for fuel and supplies, there won't be any. You're not taking a short cut through a worm hole--they're not there. They are mere theory and the likely hood of such a possiblity id practially zero. He explained the difference between public perceptions and what a theroy may actually really mean. The public thinks a theory is conformation of existance and use it as fact--no so--just as I said. TRekies and Alien belivers will grab onto anything to bo9lster their claims. The only way your Alien went past Earth is in small body parts combined with confetti from the space craft---and that didn'r make it here either--just like I knew. He points out--there's no sense in even conversing with you because as he's encontered many other---he'll never believe you and he's got what he wants. 

So--you have to start over. Calling others stupid is only a copout to cover your own ignoance. Case Closed.

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 What kind of alien capable

 What kind of alien capable of space travel would steer by using a viewing port? Nice appeal to an anonymous authority that appears to only be in your head. Wormholes aren't some random made up theory, they are predicted phenomena based on the mathematics on General Relativity. If wormholes can't exist, then the theory of general relativity is flawed. Math can be quite useful to make accurate predictions, like how it was proven the earth was round and the circumference was measured long before anyone actually "proved" it by traveling all the way around.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:I made

Old Seer wrote:
I made experiments and etc.

Bullshit.

Old Seer wrote:
You, re making things up to fit what you want.

No, you are.

Old Seer wrote:
The Prof called and said you Alien didn't make it.

The guy you call a Prof is as ignorant as you. The very fact you called a physicist to ask about cosmology, engineering, and astronomy discredits your response. Appeals to authority don't work when you don't reference someone who actually works in the field.

Old Seer wrote:
According to him the only stupid thing I've done was get into a converstaion with you. I'm exactly right.

So he's as dumb as you are. And you're both wrong.

Old Seer wrote:
I'm exactly right. All the thoreticals and "ifies"don't get you across the Galaxy.

Strawman, and more displays of ignorance. 170 lightyears is not crossing the galaxy.

Old Seer wrote:
Your Alien died enrout on what he refered to as "the cosmic sanding belt".

No such thing. Nice of you to prove conclusively that your friend isn't a Professor. He's probably one of your fellow crackpot theists.

Old Seer wrote:
Your Aliens craft was beat to pieces by space debris that cannot be avoided ovr the span of time and distance,

Ridiculous.

Old Seer wrote:
If one were able to put a straight tube the dictance of your route and be qable to see out the other end---you wouldn't be albe to. All you would see id space debris and your alien would run into every bit of it.

Ridiculous.

Old Seer wrote:
The is one if the insurrmountable problems.

Not at all. A 3D printer is just as capable of building replacement parts as it is food. And I'm pretty sure anyone attempting to travel that kind of distance wouldn't use tin foil as a hull. Well, apparently you and your Prof would. But noone with a brain would.

Old Seer wrote:
Ifyou had a glass viewing port forward, after a bout 2 light years it woilf look like being frosted over from the small particales striking it.

Called it! You're both pretty damn stupid. What kind of suicidal moron would build a spaceship with any glass at all? YOU!

Old Seer wrote:
He wants tyo know (if you would post it please) what you're going to do fora crew. Your crew has about an 80 yeras life span--who are you going to replace them with on a voyage that will take 20 or more life times.

Apparently neither of you has ever had sex. Not really surprising.

Old Seer wrote:
He roared with laugjhter when he encountered the common denominator. It's the best description of the Si Fi problem he's ever come across. he's always had to deal with the "Si Fi problem" as he called it, with new students that he made up a speech at the beginning of each year informinn them that--from now on we deal with reality--etc etc. He had to over come the video games, compuitior games and Si Fi TV shows. He said I have no idea how all that has formed or been integrated into todays reality of the kids.

He said my understanding of Si Fi Crreep is exatly correct, he had to deal with it continuiiously. He learned to overlook it and carry on knowing the student woulf learn differently over time. 

You and he are both complete morons, and you're both dead wrong. Go watch some more Star Trek and keep living in your bubble of ignorance.

Old Seer wrote:
And, just as I knew--you're not stopping off anywhere for fuel and supplies, there won't be any.

Ridiculous.

Old Seer wrote:
You're not taking a short cut through a worm hole--they're not there. They are mere theory and the likely hood of such a possiblity id practially zero.

Lmfao you're SO incredibly stupid. They ARE there. We can fucking SEE THEM. You dumb mother fucker.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Crimmony

Beyond Saving wrote:

 What kind of alien capable of space travel would steer by using a viewing port? Nice appeal to an anonymous authority that appears to only be in your head. Wormholes aren't some random made up theory, they are predicted phenomena based on the mathematics on General Relativity. If wormholes can't exist, then the theory of general relativity is flawed. Math can be quite useful to make accurate predictions, like how it was proven the earth was round and the circumference was measured long before anyone actually "proved" it by traveling all the way around.

I used the glass port as an example of what happens, over distance and time, the damage caused by even small particles. No,I would not use a glass window on a space craft.  The same will happen to lenses on outboard cameras. Your making things up to find fault. There isn't any to find.

I did not say a wornhole is impossible, I said--it is highly unlikely any are existing. It would be a phenomenon that appears and dissapates, and would be forming and deforming, and would be able to do so quite rapidly. Now mind this, I'm not saying a wormhole (nippin your next critisim in the bud) is like a tornado, here now, gone in a moment. The internal radiation would be to high for a physical body to pass through unharmed. Yup,I know, you'd have special sheilding---been there heard that idea many times. Not gonna happen. Being in a wormhole when it suddenly dissapates put you where. And, how do you know when it will dissapate. I know Einstien did the math, I say he's right, not that he needs my approval, he the go to guy.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
^ This idiot would go into

^ This idiot would go into space in a tin foil hull with no replacement parts at all. ROFL

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
OK

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:
I made experiments and etc.
Bullshit.
Old Seer wrote:
You, re making things up to fit what you want.
No, you are.
Old Seer wrote:
The Prof called and said you Alien didn't make it.
The guy you call a Prof is as ignorant as you. The very fact you called a physicist to ask about cosmology, engineering, and astronomy discredits your response. Appeals to authority don't work when you don't reference someone who actually works in the field.
Old Seer wrote:
According to him the only stupid thing I've done was get into a converstaion with you. I'm exactly right.
So he's as dumb as you are. And you're both wrong.
Old Seer wrote:
I'm exactly right. All the thoreticals and "ifies"don't get you across the Galaxy.
Strawman, and more displays of ignorance. 170 lightyears is not crossing the galaxy.
Old Seer wrote:
Your Alien died enrout on what he refered to as "the cosmic sanding belt".
No such thing. Nice of you to prove conclusively that your friend isn't a Professor. He's probably one of your fellow crackpot theists.
Old Seer wrote:
Your Aliens craft was beat to pieces by space debris that cannot be avoided ovr the span of time and distance,
Ridiculous.
Old Seer wrote:
If one were able to put a straight tube the dictance of your route and be qable to see out the other end---you wouldn't be albe to. All you would see id space debris and your alien would run into every bit of it.
Ridiculous.
Old Seer wrote:
The is one if the insurrmountable problems.
Not at all. A 3D printer is just as capable of building replacement parts as it is food. And I'm pretty sure anyone attempting to travel that kind of distance wouldn't use tin foil as a hull. Well, apparently you and your Prof would. But noone with a brain would.
Old Seer wrote:
Ifyou had a glass viewing port forward, after a bout 2 light years it woilf look like being frosted over from the small particales striking it.
Called it! You're both pretty damn stupid. What kind of suicidal moron would build a spaceship with any glass at all? YOU!
Old Seer wrote:
He wants tyo know (if you would post it please) what you're going to do fora crew. Your crew has about an 80 yeras life span--who are you going to replace them with on a voyage that will take 20 or more life times.
Apparently neither of you has ever had sex. Not really surprising.
Old Seer wrote:
He roared with laugjhter when he encountered the common denominator. It's the best description of the Si Fi problem he's ever come across. he's always had to deal with the "Si Fi problem" as he called it, with new students that he made up a speech at the beginning of each year informinn them that--from now on we deal with reality--etc etc. He had to over come the video games, compuitior games and Si Fi TV shows. He said I have no idea how all that has formed or been integrated into todays reality of the kids. He said my understanding of Si Fi Crreep is exatly correct, he had to deal with it continuiiously. He learned to overlook it and carry on knowing the student woulf learn differently over time. 
You and he are both complete morons, and you're both dead wrong. Go watch some more Star Trek and keep living in your bubble of ignorance.
Old Seer wrote:
And, just as I knew--you're not stopping off anywhere for fuel and supplies, there won't be any.
Ridiculous.
Old Seer wrote:
You're not taking a short cut through a worm hole--they're not there. They are mere theory and the likely hood of such a possiblity id practially zero.
Lmfao you're SO incredibly stupid. They ARE there. We can fucking SEE THEM. You dumb mother fucker.

find find a way of getting past space debris. 1 soccer ball size chunck and you ship is gone. At 40,000 mph you won't see it and, and. everything you need to know is online, and everything I present is also on line.Your Alien is DOA, mine is well and safe on his home planet lauphing at you. he has a dirct link to the White House and is informed of everything goping on  on planet earth. He runs the CIA, NSA, BATF, FBI, MYEYE, and PIEEYE. Har har har har. BTW a message form Porf M. There'll be no need to wish you good luck on your journey, you won't have any.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:OK find find

Old Seer wrote:
OK find find a way of getting past space debris.

Why should I? I'm not planning a trip through space. I'm not an engineer. I leave jobs like that for specialists. For which you do not qualify.

Old Seer wrote:
1 soccer ball size chunck and you ship is gone. At 40,000 mph you won't see it and, and. everything you need to know is online, and everything I present is also on line.Your Alien is DOA,

Says an ignorant fool. If space is so dangerous, how did both Voyagers make it as far as they have on technology from the 60's? You're a braindead buffoon.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
i said it could be something

i said it could be something like a wormhole, not necessarily a wormhole. like in clarke's books: the gateway monoliths (like the one on titan in the first odyssey book) aren't necessarily wormholes; they're just some form of technology that humans cannot yet comprehend. he also wrote about "warp drive" in the second rama book, which is genuine faster-than-light travel without a "cheat" like a wormhole-like gateway (albeit the journeys still took decades), and clarke made it a point not to write about technology that was utterly fantastic.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
Oh, OK

iwbiek wrote:
i said it could be something like a wormhole, not necessarily a wormhole. like in clarke's books: the gateway monoliths (like the one on titan in the first odyssey book) aren't necessarily wormholes; they're just some form of technology that humans cannot yet comprehend. he also wrote about "warp drive" in the second rama book, which is genuine faster-than-light travel without a "cheat" like a wormhole-like gateway (albeit the journeys still took decades), and clarke made it a point not to write about technology that was utterly fantastic.

I gotcha. looks good to me. Sorry, At times I speed read a bit to speedy. I rute it down and I'll have a look at it. Now ya pissed me off and completly ruined my understanding that I knew everything. Thanks Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
They're

Vastet wrote:
Old Seer wrote:
OK find find a way of getting past space debris.
Why should I? I'm not planning a trip through space. I'm not an engineer. I leave jobs like that for specialists. For which you do not qualify.
Old Seer wrote:
1 soccer ball size chunck and you ship is gone. At 40,000 mph you won't see it and, and. everything you need to know is online, and everything I present is also on line.Your Alien is DOA,
Says an ignorant fool. If space is so dangerous, how did both Voyagers make it as far as they have on technology from the 60's? You're a braindead buffoon.

local and low speed, and the area they mostly operat in is known---It's Chance deal. On the short run all is well. Light yrars down the way it'll hit something. And you couldn't figure this out for your self. I considr ower solar system "local". You're not saying that it'll never collide with anything--are you ??????? Well great guns man,, there's oodles of planets. stars, asteroids, commets debri of all sizes and types out there, and it's in all direction.  It's all a matter of time and distance of travel.

How about the foam chunck that caused the destruction of a space shuttle. Did you take into accounts the possible flaws in design that can come about. I (get this) knew that was going to happen long before it did. How in the world can a space craft take off with ice chunks falling off. I even pointed that out to my son at the time. But it wasn't the ice--it was a peice of foam insulation. And then to watch those take offs time after time and see the same thing. I told my Sonny--it's only a matter of time and circumstance.

Now, can you transter that to space travel and develop some inkling of an idea of what I'm telling you. Yeah right, you're going to see when approaching a soccer ball to golf size, dust cloud objects--you're going to avoid them by sight alone. No you're not, there's also side impacts to consider. Space travel is not going out and cranking over the engine for a trip to Walmart planet for a shopping spree.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:They're local

Old Seer wrote:
They're local and low speed

They're a lot more than fast enough to get blown up by a piece of debris, and the fact they are local destroys your argument. There's billions of times more debris inside a solar system than outside. If we can launch multiple probes at high speed that travel through the majority of a solar system unscathed, then travelling between the stars is a cakewalk in comparison.

Old Seer wrote:
and the area they mostly operat in is known

No, it isn't. We just discovered a few plutoids in the last few years that are a LOT closer than the Voyager craft. If we couldn't even see a rock almost as big as the moon, there's no way in hell we could see a rock the size of a football even further away. Your ignorance and stupidity is mind boggling.

Old Seer wrote:
On the short run all is well. Light yrars down the way it'll hit something.

So will the Earth. So what? The fact that it will eventually hit something after travelling forever doesn't automatically make a trip impossible. The big debris can be avoided. A lot of the small debris can be deflected. Damage can be repaired. You're a dumb ass who never even considered the idea of a small fleet of probes flying around our alien ship to warn it of any impending debris collision so it could get out of the way. You've put no effort into this at all.

Old Seer wrote:
How about the foam chunck that caused the destruction of a space shuttle.

Wouldn't have destroyed it in space. Challenger exploded because there was an oxygen atmosphere to feed the fire. Colombia because it tried reentry with a damaged heat shield. Neither are applicable in space.

Old Seer wrote:
Did you take into accounts the possible flaws in design that can come about.

Did you take into account the fact that no intelligent species is just going to randomly launch people into the universe on a prototype space craft? Every single argument you come up with proves how stupid you are.

Old Seer wrote:
I (get this) knew that was going to happen long before it did.

Good for you, you predicted something that had been predicted before you were born. News flash moron: accidents happen, people die. Aeroplanes and cars are incredibly dangerous, and people die all the time using them. But we keep using them, and we reproduce faster than they kill us.

Old Seer wrote:
Now, can you transter that to space travel and develop some inkling of an idea of what I'm telling you.

Only if I were as brain dead and unimaginative as you are.

Old Seer wrote:
Yeah right, you're going to see when approaching a soccer ball to golf size, dust cloud objects--you're going to avoid them by sight alone. No you're not, there's also side impacts to consider. Space travel is not going out and cranking over the engine for a trip to Walmart planet for a shopping spree.

No problem at all, it's a piece of cake. WE could do it today. And you have shit for brains.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Old Seer wrote:I used the

Old Seer wrote:

I used the glass port as an example of what happens, over distance and time, the damage caused by even small particles. No,I would not use a glass window on a space craft.  The same will happen to lenses on outboard cameras. Your making things up to find fault. There isn't any to find.

I'm making shit up?!?!? Your the one who threw the glass port in there and trying to find problems why an alien race with millions of years of technological advancement on us couldn't possibly have traveled past Earth in the last 9 billion years. I am making absolutely zero knowledge claims. I don't know and don't pretend to know what any alien race may or may not be capable of. I am quite confident that they are capable of things we can't imagine and that perhaps some things that seem possible to us now actually are impossible. From our tiny rock, we should be smart enough to realize our perspective sucks and we don't know shit- our species has been in this position before. Yet you come around an make positive claims about what is or is not possible. I'm quite confident that 1,000 years ago you would have been making the same confident assertions regarding flight, locomotion, submarines and any number of innovations we enjoy on a daily basis. Many assholes made such anti-knowledge assertions all along and get proven wrong every time. Yet after thousands of years of evidence, humans still pretend that right now we finally know everything.  

 

Quote:

I did not say a wornhole is impossible, I said--it is highly unlikely any are existing. It would be a phenomenon that appears and dissapates, and would be forming and deforming, and would be able to do so quite rapidly. Now mind this, I'm not saying a wormhole (nippin your next critisim in the bud) is like a tornado, here now, gone in a moment. The internal radiation would be to high for a physical body to pass through unharmed. Yup,I know, you'd have special sheilding---been there heard that idea many times. Not gonna happen. Being in a wormhole when it suddenly dissapates put you where. And, how do you know when it will dissapate. I know Einstien did the math, I say he's right, not that he needs my approval, he the go to guy.

I'll tell Stephen Hawking to stop wasting his time with the theories then. Obviously you have amazing amounts of knowledge about a phenomena we haven't had a chance to observe yet. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
ooops.

Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

I used the glass port as an example of what happens, over distance and time, the damage caused by even small particles. No,I would not use a glass window on a space craft.  The same will happen to lenses on outboard cameras. Your making things up to find fault. There isn't any to find.

I'm making shit up?!?!? Your the one who threw the glass port in there and trying to find problems why an alien race with millions of years of technological advancement on us couldn't possibly have traveled past Earth in the last 9 billion years. I am making absolutely zero knowledge claims. I don't know and don't pretend to know what any alien race may or may not be capable of. I am quite confident that they are capable of things we can't imagine and that perhaps some things that seem possible to us now actually are impossible. From our tiny rock, we should be smart enough to realize our perspective sucks and we don't know shit- our species has been in this position before. Yet you come around an make positive claims about what is or is not possible. I'm quite confident that 1,000 years ago you would have been making the same confident assertions regarding flight, locomotion, submarines and any number of innovations we enjoy on a daily basis. Many assholes made such anti-knowledge assertions all along and get proven wrong every time. Yet after thousands of years of evidence, humans still pretend that right now we finally know everything.  

 

[quote

 

I did not say a wornhole is impossible, I said--it is highly unlikely any are existing. It would be a phenomenon that appears and dissapates, and would be forming and deforming, and would be able to do so quite rapidly. Now mind this, I'm not saying a wormhole (nippin your next critisim in the bud) is like a tornado, here now, gone in a moment. The internal radiation would be to high for a physical body to pass through unharmed. Yup,I know, you'd have special sheilding---been there heard that idea many times. Not gonna happen. Being in a wormhole when it suddenly dissapates put you where. And, how do you know when it will dissapate. I know Einstien did the math, I say he's right, not that he needs my approval, he the go to guy.

I'll tell Stephen Hawking to stop wasting his time with the theories then. Obviously you have amazing amounts of knowledge about a phenomena we haven't had a chance to observe yet. 

I apologize,. Beyond. The "other guy" is getting me on the negative side of things and it migrated . Theories and possiblities are just fine with me,I have a few of my own. You're misunderstanding. Whatever is possible can be done, and of course some with great difficulty. But there is a difference from a possibility and practical application. I may have pointed this out at some point.  Space objects are the big stopper. It nulifies long distance space travel and may very well keep it local. Local is practical, long distance may not be. Hawking is one of my favorite guys. There's no way I'm telling him anything.  Smiling

 

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 12915
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
^ Idiot continues to be an

^ Idiot continues to be an idiot even after I proved he's an idiot.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
I looked up Mr Clarke.

iwbiek wrote:
i said it could be something like a wormhole, not necessarily a wormhole. like in clarke's books: the gateway monoliths (like the one on titan in the first odyssey book) aren't necessarily wormholes; they're just some form of technology that humans cannot yet comprehend. he also wrote about "warp drive" in the second rama book, which is genuine faster-than-light travel without a "cheat" like a wormhole-like gateway (albeit the journeys still took decades), and clarke made it a point not to write about technology that was utterly fantastic.

Facinating. I spent a good part of the day looking his insights over. but not enough online to satisfy me. I'm looking for the actual info now rather then general information on his ideas. It looks to me that this is one of those rare SI fi writers where their Si Fi can actually lead to results on things that aren't. I'm going to try to get by cheap and see if I can find online writings, or I'll have to go the amazon route. Thanks much.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4190
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
you're welcome. clarke's

you're welcome. clarke's type of sci-fi is generally known as "hard" sci-fi and it's not all that rare. others who worked in that vein were isaac asimov, robert heinlein, and stephen baxter. even the "black sheep" of sci-fi, phillip k. dick, mostly wrote about predictable technology, albeit in a very trippy, quasi-mystical way that infuriated his more mainstream peers.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Old Seer
Theist
Posts: 1506
Joined: 2011-11-12
User is offlineOffline
here's

partial of one discription of his works. This one kind og descirbes where I'm at. The last sentence, but not in all cases.

 

One passage in "Ghost" significantly reveals this changed attitude. For 15 years, in fiction and nonfiction, Clarke tirelessly and successfully championed the building of geosynchronous satellites to achieve a superior system of worldwide communication. However, in this novel, "the latest marvel of communications technology" is "the first fiber-optic cable to be laid under the Arctic ice cap," and "by eliminating the long haul up to the geostationary orbit, and its slight but annoying time delay, the global phone system had been noticeably improved." Perhaps, Clarke now indicates, the most advanced scientific method is not always the best; perhaps there are cases where returning to an old and familiar method actually is better.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth