The "Theory of ABBA"

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The "Theory of ABBA"

 If anyone here thinks I am a devil keep thinking that. 

I like ABBA becuse of their music. Some here think I think I am right about everything. I really don't care if anyone here likes me. What I do care about is that even those who personally don't like me consider their own perceptions are not anymore a given than their hatred of ABBA or my personal take on reality.

My biggest problem with my species isn't that we bitch each other out. My biggest problem is that we divide on labels, not focusing on the reality that it is really a crap shoot for all of us.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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You aren't smart enough to

You aren't smart enough to be a devil. And you are the biggest labeller on Earth. A hypocrite, a liar, and ignorant. That's what you are, and that is why noone likes you. It's not us, it's YOU.

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 You got me, that is why

 You got me, that is why Bob still likes me. 

If you are going to hate me dont be half assed about it. I get that you think I am full of shit. But outside that if it isn't about you thinking I am a dipshit do the right thing and advocate for the elimination of your enemy. You certainly act like I deseve the death penalty. If not, then SHUT THE FUCK UP and admit you dont like me.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote: You got me,

Brian37 wrote:

 You got me, that is why Bob still likes me. 

 

                                                     

                                                         Bob is weird, too.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


Brian37
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 You got me, that is why Bob still likes me. 

 

                                                     

                                                         Bob is weird, too.

Anyone who puts up with me is most certainly weird. I'd be more worried about asking Bob to watch an NFL game with me.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Vastet
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Brian37 wrote:You got me,

Brian37 wrote:
You got me, that is why Bob still likes me.

For now. It's only a matter of time before you alienate him as well.

Brian37 wrote:
If you are going to hate me dont be half assed about it.

Noones being half assed about despising you. If you had any brains you'd have figured that out by now.

Brian37 wrote:
I get that you think I am full of shit.

No, I don't. I KNOW FOR AN ABSOLUTE FACT that you're full of shit. You're SO full of shit I can call you a theist.

Brian37 wrote:
But outside that if it isn't about you thinking I am a dipshit

That's EXACTLY what this is about: you being a lying dipshit.

Brian37 wrote:
do the right thing and advocate for the elimination of your enemy.

Only a complete moron the likes of Hitler or Bush would say that. And here I thought my opinion of you couldn't get any worse.

Brian37 wrote:
You certainly act like I deseve the death penalty.

No I'd be happy locking you in a white room with all the other insane theists. The death penalty is a waste.

Brian37 wrote:
If not, then SHUT THE FUCK UP and admit you dont like me.

I will never shut up and I will never stop telling you that nobody likes you.

Never.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:You aren't

Vastet wrote:
You aren't smart enough to be a devil. And you are the biggest labeller on Earth. A hypocrite, a liar, and ignorant. That's what you are, and that is why noone likes you. It's not us, it's YOU.

No it is not me.

You are too fucking childish to adimit you don't like me. I don't like you either.

Now unless you are williing to murder me over what you know I get wrong then all it amounts to is YOU.

Just say "Brian is an asshole and I dont like him"

I get that. I think you are an asshole too.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 FUCK OFF VASET,What could

 FUCK OFF VASET,

What could you do to me to make you cream your jeans? Unless it is murder then all you have is you dont like me. I get that becuase I hate your stupid ass too.

You don't like me, SO THE FUCK WHAT? On a planet of  7 billion that is going to happen.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Vastet
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Brian37 wrote:No it is not

Brian37 wrote:
No it is not me.

Yes it is you.

Brian37 wrote:
You are too fucking childish to adimit you don't like me. I don't like you either.

You are too childish to admit that you LIE and you're a HYPOCRITE and that you LABEL everyone and refuse to acknowledge the FACT that EVERYONE here has said they despise you. Keep making shit up, loser.

Brian37 wrote:
Now unless you are williing to murder me over what you know I get wrong then all it amounts to is YOU.

What I do or don't do has no impact on the fact that the problem is YOU.

Brian37 wrote:
Just say "Brian is an asshole and I dont like him"

Except that's another LIE. You aren't an asshole, you're a LIAR and a HYPOCRITE and COWARD.
Actually you are an asshole, but I can get along just fine with assholes. It's the fact that YOU are a THEIST who pretends to be an atheist that annoys me. Stop lying and admit it.

Brian37 wrote:
I get that. I think you are an asshole too.

First thing you've said in years that had ANY truth to it at all.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Vastet
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Brian37 wrote:FUCK OFF

Brian37 wrote:
FUCK OFF VASET,

No YOU fuck off. I'm not going anywhere. 'm going to harass you the way you harass everyone else from this point forward. I'll call you out every time you post something stupid. Welcome to hell, shit for brains.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Brian37 wrote:Some here

Brian37 wrote:

Some here think I think I am right about everything.

Really?!? Name one. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

My biggest problem with my species isn't that we bitch each other out. My biggest problem is that we divide on labels, not focusing on the reality that it is really a crap shoot for all of us.

And yet despite your professed problem with labels- you have repeatedly refuse to directly acknowledge points made- instead you start ranting about how people hate you, or start talking about a completely unrelated subject. You repeatedly refuse to answer direct questions, or discuss anything in detail. As soon as anything specific comes up, you start a new thread and run away. 

The real question is, are you capable of being honest with yourself at least? Or have you gone totally batshit crazy and actually buy into your martyr complex hype. FWIW, I don't hate you. I pity you for the sad little angry life you live and think you ought to seriously consider getting some psychological help if your antics aren't just intentional trolling. You really aren't worth my effort to hate, I'm lazy.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote: No YOU fuck

Vastet wrote:
No YOU fuck off. I'm not going anywhere. 'm going to harass you the way you harass everyone else from this point forward. I'll call you out every time you post something stupid. Welcome to hell, shit for brains.

 

               Ha ha, go Vastet.   I'm going to really enjoy this.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
FUCK OFF VASET,
No YOU fuck off. I'm not going anywhere. 'm going to harass you the way you harass everyone else from this point forward. I'll call you out every time you post something stupid. Welcome to hell, shit for brains.

Thank you for proving my point all this is bluster to admit you dont like me.

I GET THAT FUCKWAD  and I feel the same about you.

I don't expect you to go anywhere. So it still amounts to bitching. I get that.

ABBA loves you too. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
FUCK OFF VASET,
No YOU fuck off. I'm not going anywhere. 'm going to harass you the way you harass everyone else from this point forward. I'll call you out every time you post something stupid. Welcome to hell, shit for brains.

Thank you for proving my point all this is bluster to admit you dont like me.

I GET THAT FUCKWAD  and I feel the same about you.

I don't expect you to go anywhere. So it still amounts to bitching. I get that.

ABBA loves you too. 

In case you haven't noticed, Vastet "admitted" that he didn't like you a long, long time ago. Although the fact that he dislikes you does not mitigate, excuse or explain your complete dishonesty and regular strawmanning of everyone. Nor does it explain why you fabricated an Einstein quote and have yet to even acknowledge or address it. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Thank you for

Brian37 wrote:
Thank you for proving my point all this is bluster to admit you dont like me.

Brian deludes himself. He ignores the reality that I have repeatedly said I don't like him, and why I don't like him, and pretends I harbour some secret hatred against him that seeps out in my writting. In Brians mind he's the hero, he can do no wrong. He's right about everything, and everyone else is wrong. It would fracture his psyche to admit the truth, much like it would fracture the psyche of a theist to admit the truth. In fact, Brian is a theist. His religion is atheism.
Usually atheism is incapable of being a religion, but if one buts blind faith into it and ignores all evidence in favour of his perfect explanation of the universe, it actually can become a religion. With Brian, this has happened.

Brian37 wrote:
I GET THAT FUCKWAD  and I feel the same about you.

Because Brian has no emotional control, outbursts like this are common. It is interesting to note that his behaviour most closely resembles that of an adolescent. Which leads us to conclude there is a very real possibility that Brian has a learning deficiency and has never progressed beyond the stage of a teenager.

When one looks at his posts in general, this actually starts to make sense. He is completely self centred, throws tantrums regularly, refuses to acknowledge others, the list goes on. Classic adolescence.

Brian37 wrote:
I don't expect you to go anywhere. So it still amounts to bitching. I get that.

In light of these revelations, it becomes obvious why Brian cannot accept the reality that he is the problem. He hasn't matured enough to do so. Considering his age, it becomes doubtful that such maturity will ever be within his grasp. It is not impossible that he could overcome it, the fact that he can communicate his own mind so clearly suggests that his inability to communicate effectively with others is the result of the mental blocks he has in place to protect his self-centred world view. But overcoming those blocks would require thought, and Brian doesn't like to think. Let alone think about himself. He likes to pretend, but he doesn't like to think.

Brian37 wrote:
ABBA loves you too. 

Now this is a demonstration that not all hope is lost. Brian feels guilty. Brian doesn't know why he feels guilty, but he feels guilty. If he ever does some real introspection it will all become clear, but he doesn't want to do that. Instead, he tries to lighten the mood to make himself feel better. Deep down he knows he's wrong, but if he admits to that it will allow the real world to sneak in, and Brian is afraid.
The fact that Brian is capable of feeling guilt for his actions would seem like there is hope, but Brian has successfully used this tactic for nearly a decade and it hasn't changed. In fact, his need to feel superior to others has only increased. As a result, he has managed to attack almost every single member of the site at one time or another. Given time, he will eventually turn on Bob and Brian Sapient as well, as the line of enemies must be ever growing to satisfy his martyr complex.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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jesus christ, what a fucking

jesus christ, what a fucking train wreck...


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Brian37 wrote:ABBA loves you

Brian37 wrote:

ABBA loves you too. 

 

    Brian, any news about that fake Einstein quote you refuse to admit to ?   

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Vastet wrote:and that is why

Vastet wrote:
and that is why noone likes you

This is a falsehood


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iwbiek wrote:jesus christ,

iwbiek wrote:
jesus christ, what a fucking train wreck...

LMAO. Yeah, right? I haven't seen a flame war since... oh fucking 1983? 1985? when BBS's had a section of their forums devoted to trashing another person.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

ABBA loves you too. 

 

    Brian, any news about that fake Einstein quote you refuse to admit to ?   

We gave up on getting a response.


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

 

We gave up on getting a response.

 

  Go to Brian's poetry thread.  He chose to respond in a thread he thought no one viewed ( coward ),  start at post #586.   He resorted to the Brian William's defense and spewing all cap "FUCKS YOU"s.  The dude is losing his mind.   

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 We gave up on getting a response.

  Go to Brian's poetry thread.  He chose to respond in a thread he thought no one viewed ( coward ),  start at post #586.   He resorted to the Brian William's defense and spewing all cap "FUCKS YOU"s.  The dude is losing his mind.   

When he started that thread I read the OP but never, literally never went back to it until just now. I have to go wash my eyes now in the hope that my mind will erase what I saw.


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That 'fake Einstein quote'

 I realize that Brian has given up on on trying to respond to this accusation, just as with many others because he finds arguing with many of his accusers is ultimately unproductive.

However I feel like inserting one of my relatively infrequent comments here...

First, a fundamental irritation I have with many acusations or assumption of 'lying', in all kinds of contexts, is the basic fallacious assumption of a dichotomy: if what someone says is perceived to not be true, it is assumed that they must be 'lying'. They ignore the third option, ie, that they are mistaken.

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

The path to Truth lies via careful study of reality, not the dreams of our fallible minds - me

From the sublime to the ridiculous: Science -> Philosophy -> Theology


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Well said, Bob.I think

Well said, Bob.

I think Einstein himself would agree with that statement as well, regardless of whether he was the source, given his strong skepticism of QM at the time.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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BobSpence wrote:The

BobSpence wrote:

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.

I don't see it as a lie. I just wanted to have a response to it because when I saw it I knew it wasn't a quote from Einstein. I responded to him, I was the first to respond, that he should retract it.

Did he? No. Did he ever acknowloedge my request? No. Did he defend it? No. Did he attempt to resolve or correct it? No.

I won't dwell on the second part, but I believe every thing is connected in some form or fashion.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Vastet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Vastet wrote:
and that is why noone likes you

This is a falsehood

The peanut galleries opinions are irrelevant. Smiling

BobSpence wrote:

 I realize that Brian has given up on on trying to respond to this accusation, just as with many others because he finds arguing with many of his accusers is ultimately unproductive.

However I feel like inserting one of my relatively infrequent comments here...

First, a fundamental irritation I have with many acusations or assumption of 'lying', in all kinds of contexts, is the basic fallacious assumption of a dichotomy: if what someone says is perceived to not be true, it is assumed that they must be 'lying'. They ignore the third option, ie, that they are mistaken.

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.

A mistake is only a mistake so long as the offending party is unaware it is a mistake. Once the offending party is aware that it is a mistake, it becomes a lie. Brian is aware, therefore Brian is a liar.

QED

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BobSpence wrote: I realize

BobSpence wrote:

 I realize that Brian has given up on on trying to respond to this accusation, just as with many others because he finds arguing with many of his accusers is ultimately unproductive.

However I feel like inserting one of my relatively infrequent comments here...

First, a fundamental irritation I have with many acusations or assumption of 'lying', in all kinds of contexts, is the basic fallacious assumption of a dichotomy: if what someone says is perceived to not be true, it is assumed that they must be 'lying'. They ignore the third option, ie, that they are mistaken.

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.




bob, i for one asked him to explain what happened. he never once said he was mistaken. he never said anything. i don't know why you're talking about him "giving up trying to respond to this accusation." he has never even started responding, or ever explained himself about anything when he's been caught in a factual error, einstein quote or otherwise. that is his fundamental dishonesty, and one i personally will not ignore as long as he persists in a bombastic, confrontational, morally superior attitude. ask yourself, when's the last time i actually started an argument with him? i'm willing to bet it was many months ago. he constantly seeks out confrontation and naturally most people here have lost patience. i don't think he lies all the time, but i think he's definitely dishonest at times to keep himself from having to admit a mistake to a perceived "enemy," even if that dishonesty only takes the form of his fleeing the discussion. it's just flat out immature, and deserves pointing out, considering one of his constant refrains, to me and others, is "grow up."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:BobSpence

iwbiek wrote:
BobSpence wrote:

 I realize that Brian has given up on on trying to respond to this accusation, just as with many others because he finds arguing with many of his accusers is ultimately unproductive.

However I feel like inserting one of my relatively infrequent comments here...

First, a fundamental irritation I have with many acusations or assumption of 'lying', in all kinds of contexts, is the basic fallacious assumption of a dichotomy: if what someone says is perceived to not be true, it is assumed that they must be 'lying'. They ignore the third option, ie, that they are mistaken.

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.


bob, i for one asked him to explain what happened. he never once said he was mistaken. he never said anything. i don't know why you're talking about him "giving up trying to respond to this accusation." he has never even started responding, or ever explained himself about anything when he's been caught in a factual error, einstein quote or otherwise. that is his fundamental dishonesty, and one i personally will not ignore as long as he persists in a bombastic, confrontational, morally superior attitude. ask yourself, when's the last time i actually started an argument with him? i'm willing to bet it was many months ago. he constantly seeks out confrontation and naturally most people here have lost patience. i don't think he lies all the time, but i think he's definitely dishonest at times to keep himself from having to admit a mistake to a perceived "enemy," even if that dishonesty only takes the form of his fleeing the discussion. it's just flat out immature, and deserves pointing out, considering one of his constant refrains, to me and others, is "grow up."

I am not going to attempt to defend his apparent failure to repond to the accusation of being factually wrong about it being an "Einstein quote", but it seems you are ignoring the more important point that the statement is regarded as true by most modern scientists:

curious.astro.cornell.edu/disclaimer/104-the-universe/cosmology-and-the-big-bang/expansion-of-the-universe/616-is-the-universe-expanding-faster-than-the-speed-of-light-intermediate

The implications of this observation seem far more important, especially in the context of recent discussions about "everything is connected", than obsessing over how Brian came up with it.

If pinning down questionable details of someone's post were so important, then I probably should have really tried to get you to justify your dismissal of the accusation of 'cherry-picking' in one of your reponses some time ago....

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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^Which in no way excuses him

^Which in no way excuses him nor does it explain the CONSTANT lies about every single frequent poster to this site. Of far more importance than a single misquote is the fact that Brian misrepresents the positions of dozens of people on a near-daily basis, and ignores all factual evidence to the contrary. Of even greater concern is the fact that he follows people around with the specific intent of doing this, making him the worst person to post here since Shizzle got the boot.

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 Vastet, after browsing a

 Vastet, after browsing a few current/recent threads on this site, I personally think you should reflecy a bit more on your own approach, 'Pot', and not spend so much time on 'Kettle'...

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

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BobSpence wrote:If pinning

BobSpence wrote:
If pinning down questionable details of someone's post were so important, then I probably should have really tried to get you to justify your dismissal of the accusation of 'cherry-picking' in one of your reponses some time ago....




a., i don't care about if "everything is connected" or not. i said clearly at least twice on that thread that i have no dog in that fight. i merely want brian to start being honest and showing a little humility.


b., you didn't have to "try." i freely offered to clarify, though i think my original remarks were clear enough. i never "dismissed" the accusation of cherry-picking. i embraced it. it is my contention that it is a completely unwarranted modern prejudice that we have to swallow (or vomit up) our ideologies whole--be they political, religous, or whatever--or else we're somehow cheating or being "inconsistent" or "dishonest." cherry-picking--in ideologies, mind you--is the rationl faculty at work. i take what is worthy in a construct and reject the rubbish. i see no reason to dismiss any ideology out of hand if it contains useful elements...but of course it makes the polemicist's job much harder, doesn't it? if someone has decided they're going to make war on the label "muslim," for example, yet encounters a muslim who rejects most of the elements of islam the polemicist considers negative, he feels he's being cheated and accuses the muslim of either being a bad or inconsistent or dishonest muslim, or else accuses him of covering up for his correligionists who do embrace those negative elements (an attractive idea, but ultimately unverifiable). so i understand why anti-religion polemicists don't like my view...but that is as far as they can take the argument: they just don't like it. now, if you don't like my view, fine. but don't tell me i'm dismissing the label or dodging your question (actually it was a threat to bring up my "totally self-serving" defense of cherry-picking, if i recall) or something like that. i'm being completely forthcoming with you.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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BobSpence wrote: Vastet,

BobSpence wrote:

 Vastet, after browsing a few current/recent threads on this site, I personally think you should reflect a bit more on your own approach, 'Pot', and not spend so much time on 'Kettle'...

Perhaps you should learn how to use that brain of yours before making a complete fool of yourself. Oops, too late.

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 Ok, I take your points on

 Ok, I take your points on 'cherry-picking', about being required to accept an argument as a whole, accepting every detail. But I think you are missing the real problems addressed by the term. I think it refers to addressing relatively minor points in an argument while ignoring the major points, which is the reverse of what you seem to be defending, ie not fussing over the minor points.

Of course there may well be disagreement over what are 'major' and 'minor' points, which is probably where problems arise.

Favorite oxymorons: Gospel Truth, Rational Supernaturalist, Business Ethics, Christian Morality

"Theology is now little more than a branch of human ignorance. Indeed, it is ignorance with wings." - Sam Harris

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if we want to talk about it

if we want to talk about it in terms of religion, i think the religious who would say there aren't major problems with their religion are in a gross minority. however, phasing religion out of human thinking is not necessarily the most constructive, most efficacious, and certainly not the most feasible solution to those problems, and whether you identify religion, society, economics, or whatever as the root cause of those problems is, at bottom, a matter of belief.


however, my problem with brian is not his attacks against religion, though it is true i think he often attacks them simplistically and erroneously. if that were the case, why am i not lashing out at the majority of people on this site, past and present? but he knows very well that's not my problem, though he continues to accuse me of it, which is one of the main reasons i call him a liar. my problem with brian is his utter intractability when it comes to modifying, not even his basic viewpoints, but the arguments he uses to advance them--arguments that, as i said before, are many times clearly erroneous. not only that, but when challenged, he either attacks a straw man (a straw man he refuses to discard when others clarify their positions--he once FINALLY told me, when i told him multiple times that i never accused him of some thing or another, that i surely was "thinking it"), or he runs and starts another thread rehashing the same argument in a slightly different way. it's frustrating, immature, needless behavior, now coupled with the fact that he follows posters like me onto completely unrelated threads--about sci-fi novels, for example--and tries to steer the argument back into his same obsessive course, behavior i can only classify as having a vendetta.


you may find that defensible behavior but i do not, and it's hardly a matter of me combing through his posts to find minutiae to criticize.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 "Vendeta"?

 "Vendeta"? OOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK, must be good shit you are smoking.

Now no "vendeta" at all saying you are one of 7 billion. No "vendeta" in accepting that YOU personally do not like me. Got it, that is your right. Now have I tied you to a post and offered you your last smoke? 

 

Now when you keep talking about religion being complex. NO SHIT. When you talk about the differences between say Japan's Buddhists or Tibett's or China's Buddhists, when you talk about the difference bettwen Pakistani Muslims vs Saudi Muslims

NO FUCKING SHIT. Humans are the ones who come up with those complicated things, but outside that the thing you don't want to face and neither do most humans, is that we are not as different as you want us to be. Our labels DO NOT change our evolution. We all group, we all need rescources, we all want to feel safe in our environments, and we also like to bitch when we don't like things.

Now please do not fucking claim you love all the Islamic violence which only an idiot would claim is not comming out of the Koran, regardless of who is finding their morality sunni or shiite. And don't be fucking stupid thrying to claim that means I am making one huge lump statement, other than the division is coming from competing factions reading the exact same book coming to different conclusions. It isn't a matter of "all" it is a matter of the idea of man made religion allowing a big enough minority MINORITY have most of the power over their MAJORITY. 

Now, wouldn't it be nice if the East got to the point you and I are at now? No one being murdered over cartoons or getting offended? Naw, fuck it, lets never challenge those social norms because someone might get offended.

No "Vandetta" on my part. Just you obbessing over bullshit. I am not out to have you arrested. I don't want to kill you. You simply don't like me. AND THAT RIGHT THERE is the entire point most humans miss. It is more important to them do do stupid shit like you do, than to accept you are not the center of the planet.

Now agian here is what I can do that you cannot. "You do not have to like me" 

Here is what you stupidly insist on "You upset me, don't ever do that", Unfortunately that is still where most of our species is at. If it worked we'd all be singing Barny and petting kittens.

The only one acting like absolutes are a blanket statement is you. If you want to walk around with a stick up your ass because you are afraid of offending others, fine. But I am not you. The only one obsessing here is you. 

Now for the A D D aflicted. You are NOT the center of my life. I post on several websites. I make the same arguments with you elsewhere. And if you agree I am not the center of your life, why do you stupidly keep responding?

A "Vendeta" would be demanding yo be baned. A "Vendeta" would be demanding my government silence and or arrest you. Immature is what you are doing expecting 7 billion humans to kiss your ass. Unfortunately you ran into me and that ruined your day. But you also did not die over it either.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote: "Vendeta"?

Brian37 wrote:

 "Vendeta"? OOOOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK, must be good shit you are smoking.

Now no "vendeta" at all saying you are one of 7 billion. No "vendeta" in accepting that YOU personally do not like me. Got it, that is your right. Now have I tied you to a post and offered you your last smoke? 

 

Now when you keep talking about religion being complex. NO SHIT. When you talk about the differences between say Japan's Buddhists or Tibett's or China's Buddhists, when you talk about the difference bettwen Pakistani Muslims vs Saudi Muslims

NO FUCKING SHIT. Humans are the ones who come up with those complicated things, but outside that the thing you don't want to face and neither do most humans, is that we are not as different as you want us to be. Our labels DO NOT change our evolution. We all group, we all need rescources, we all want to feel safe in our environments, and we also like to bitch when we don't like things.

Now please do not fucking claim you love all the Islamic violence which only an idiot would claim is not comming out of the Koran, regardless of who is finding their morality sunni or shiite. And don't be fucking stupid thrying to claim that means I am making one huge lump statement, other than the division is coming from competing factions reading the exact same book coming to different conclusions. It isn't a matter of "all" it is a matter of the idea of man made religion allowing a big enough minority MINORITY have most of the power over their MAJORITY. 

Now, wouldn't it be nice if the East got to the point you and I are at now? No one being murdered over cartoons or getting offended? Naw, fuck it, lets never challenge those social norms because someone might get offended.

No "Vandetta" on my part. Just you obbessing over bullshit. I am not out to have you arrested. I don't want to kill you. You simply don't like me. AND THAT RIGHT THERE is the entire point most humans miss. It is more important to them do do stupid shit like you do, than to accept you are not the center of the planet.

Now agian here is what I can do that you cannot. "You do not have to like me" 

Here is what you stupidly insist on "You upset me, don't ever do that", Unfortunately that is still where most of our species is at. If it worked we'd all be singing Barny and petting kittens.

The only one acting like absolutes are a blanket statement is you. If you want to walk around with a stick up your ass because you are afraid of offending others, fine. But I am not you. The only one obsessing here is you. 

Now for the A D D aflicted. You are NOT the center of my life. I post on several websites. I make the same arguments with you elsewhere. And if you agree I am not the center of your life, why do you stupidly keep responding?

A "Vendeta" would be demanding yo be baned. A "Vendeta" would be demanding my government silence and or arrest you. Immature is what you are doing expecting 7 billion humans to kiss your ass. Unfortunately you ran into me and that ruined your day. But you also did not die over it either.

 

Unsurprisingly, Brian objects to the truth. But objecting to the truth doesn't change the truth.

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brian, you don't have to

brian, you don't have to like me either. in fact, if you did, i'd be worried i must be doing something wrong.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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BobSpence wrote: I realize

BobSpence wrote:

 I realize that Brian has given up on on trying to respond to this accusation, just as with many others because he finds arguing with many of his accusers is ultimately unproductive.

However I feel like inserting one of my relatively infrequent comments here...

First, a fundamental irritation I have with many acusations or assumption of 'lying', in all kinds of contexts, is the basic fallacious assumption of a dichotomy: if what someone says is perceived to not be true, it is assumed that they must be 'lying'. They ignore the third option, ie, that they are mistaken.

We did consider the third option. Brian had many chances to correct his "mistake", the initial response wasn't "LIAR!", it was "can you please provide a reference for that quote". At which point a stable person would have provided a link for wherever they got the quote from. He never has. Which indicates that he didn't simply "misattribute" the quote as he claims in his poetry thread (which nobody would have noticed if Prozac didn't point out that Brian finally addressed it there), because misattribution implies that someone else said it. As far as I can tell, Brian is the only person on the entire Internet who has claimed that Einstein made that quote. Which means he is the one who strung those words together and threw Einstein's name on it. That is very different from reading a bad source and failing to do research to see if it is accurate. How in the world is that not dishonest?

 

Quote:

The 'quote':

      "If if any two points in the universe are are separating from each other due to the expansion of the universe faster than the speed of light, they cannot have any affect on each other. Albert Einstein."

Second, in the particular case of this quote, it doesn't seem to be something Einstein did say, but it does follow from his theories, and is very relevant in terms of current ideas about the apparent effect of 'dark energy' in accelerating the rate of expansion of the universe.

So if some dead guy would have agreed with it, it is okay to just make up quotes? That suddenly makes it honest to do so? 

 

Quote:

And while Quantum Mechanics suggests 'everything is connected', that has extremely little or no observable effect in all but very special conditions. Even in the 'spookiest' case, of Quantum Entanglement, it just means that if we measure the spin of one particle, we will immediately know the spin of a particle 'entangled' with it, even if it is a long distance away, maybe on the other side of the universe. So what?

In many such 'connections', any effect between two particles is likely to be lost in the noise of all the other influences, especially from more local sources.

Which is PRECISELY the only point I was making throughout the entire fucking thread. Go read the damn thing and point out where I ever said otherwise. I REPEATEDLY emphasized that any effect was inconsequential on the macro level and was perhaps unmeasureable. I couldn't have been more fucking clear. I also repeatedly stated that it wasn't evidence of a god or anything else supernatural. Yet Brian continued to go on tangents about Depak Chopra and matrix theories that I very clearly didn't endorse. I've been here talking to Brian for 7 years and taking him far more seriously than might be rational. My views aren't secret. Yet instead of addressing my points, he goes off on unrelated tangents, not just in this recent thread, but damn near every thread we have- which is a shitload because I would bet that me and Brian have had more discussions (using the term loosely) with each other than any other two people in the history of this site. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:We did

Beyond Saving wrote:

We did consider the third option. Brian had many chances to correct his "mistake", the initial response wasn't "LIAR!", it was "can you please provide a reference for that quote". At which point a stable person would have provided a link for wherever they got the quote from. He never has. Which indicates that he didn't simply "misattribute" the quote as he claims in his poetry thread (which nobody would have noticed if Prozac didn't point out that Brian finally addressed it there), because misattribution implies that someone else said it. As far as I can tell, Brian is the only person on the entire Internet who has claimed that Einstein made that quote. Which means he is the one who strung those words together and threw Einstein's name on it. That is very different from reading a bad source and failing to do research to see if it is accurate. How in the world is that not dishonest?

Bingo!


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Having watched Brian and

Having watched Brian and Beyond for all that time, I cannot disagree with the idea that they've had more 1 on 1 discussions than any two other people. I remember 7 years ago I wouldn't criticise Brians posts even when they were ridiculous, simply because he was at least vaguely on my side and Beyond was firmly in the opposition camp. But as time went on, Brian started expanding his straw man assaults to include other people. I let the first few go without much of an issue, but it only increased in frequency.

At this point I can say that I no longer have any respect for Bob. Not only is he attempting to defend a sociopath, he knows less than I do about science, as was demonstrated recently. Bob has become Brian's puppet who only comes on to be a hypocritical whiny bitch.

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