Ferguson, Again

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Ferguson, Again

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but the U.S. Department of Justice recently released their reports on their investigation of the killing of Michael Brown and the Ferguson police department.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

Interestingly, the DOJ has largely exonerated Darren Wilson. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Ferguson police department.....like.....at all. The report's summaries of specific civil rights violations carried out by Ferguson police officers are enough to make your blood boil by themselves. For those who don't have the patience to read the 100 page report (I know I didn't), the atlantic has a fantastic article describing their racist, revenue-based system, and summarizing the worst offenders and offenses. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/03/ferguson-as-a-criminal-conspiracy-against-its-black-residents-michael-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:I'm not

butterbattle wrote:

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but the U.S. Department of Justice recently released their reports on their investigation of the killing of Michael Brown and the Ferguson police department.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/ferguson_police_department_report.pdf

Interestingly, the DOJ has largely exonerated Darren Wilson. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the Ferguson police department.....like.....at all. The report's summaries of specific civil rights violations carried out by Ferguson police officers are enough to make your blood boil by themselves. For those who don't have the patience to read the 100 page report (I know I didn't), the atlantic has a fantastic article describing their racist, revenue-based system, and summarizing the worst offenders and offenses. 

http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2015/03/ferguson-as-a-criminal-conspiracy-against-its-black-residents-michael-brown-department-of-justice-report/386887/

Even if Darren was not profiling or a racist, the cop trianing mentality is to dominate and shoot. There still was no reason for him to shoot at a fleeing person no  matter what happend at that car. Whatever shots taken by Darren after Brown turned around still would not justify the shots taken as he had his back turned to him.

We still have natiown wide a very bad economic situation, too many guns and that leads to the cop training that has too many people ending up dead. Before you can build trust between law enforcement and society the conditions have to bethere for either to work well with each other.

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so you've been through

so you've been through police training? or just saw it on TV?


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iwbiek wrote:so you've been

iwbiek wrote:
so you've been through police training? or just saw it on TV?

I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon. 

Same stupid argument you try to use with Buddism, "How would you know, you havent studied it". I do know it is  a religion.

Tell me, can you melt metal and mold a car engine all by yourself? But I bet you know how to drive one.

 

The CLIMATE of the number of conflicts between cops and society where someone gets injured or dead is the long term issue. We should want to work to a society where cops don't even have to pull out their guns. Regardless of if you think Willson was justified at all, it is happening at far too much of a rate to allow things to continue. The totality of the OP artical says there is a problem. But this doesn't surprise anyone, sane people knew this is a long term issue.

 

 

 

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The report on the Brown case

The report on the Brown case asserts that the forensic evidence supports the story that Brown was shot and killed while charging at Wilson, as opposed to shot and killed while trying to run away.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Brian37 wrote:I haven't

Brian37 wrote:
I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon.



i highly doubt that, considering you can't even fucking spell them.


Brian37 wrote:
Tell me, can you melt metal and mold a car engine all by yourself? But I bet you know how to drive one.



you are the king of brainless fucking analogies. my being able to build car engine has nothing to do with my ability to operate one, whereas your having (or not having) a knowledge of a religion's claims is directly contingent on your being able to discuss them. never mind the fact that buddhism is not a fucking car. on the same note, if you just come on here and flippantly say, "oh, that's what cop training teaches you," i think it's reasonable for somebody to expect you to know something about the content of police training, which of course you don't. "but hey, i have ideas, so i don't need to know facts! facts are hard!" i'll say it again: analogies are always the last refuge of the truly ignorant. you're a fucking embarrassment.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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 Your stupid logic is going

 Your stupid logic is going to a Penn and Teller show seeing the woman sawed in half and saying "Since they are atheists they must have really sawed the woman in half".

Once again, just like theists, you cherry pick your sample rate and I am looking at the bigger picture. If our society had no problem between society and police, no one would be complaining. It is a problem and morons like you ignore it and perpetuate the conditions that lead to injury and death of BOTH citizens and cops.

Long term our lack of investment in livable wages for both the middle class and working poor create the conditions, the flooded gun market creates the conditions for cops to fear the worst, so they are trained to fear the worst. So that dominate attitude causes society to fear them. "Just obey the law" is an oversimplistic solution. There has to be conditions and trust, for both society and cops and only an idiot thinks those conditions exist. 

Go back and read the link in the OP and keep re reading it until you get it. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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yes, we all know you look at

yes, we all know you look at the "big picture" because you have no knowledge of the facts and are too lazy to educate yourself, and also afraid they will challenge your preconceived notions.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:yes, we all

iwbiek wrote:

yes, we all know you look at the "big picture" because you have no knowledge of the facts and are too lazy to educate yourself, and also afraid they will challenge your preconceived notions.

 

I am 48 fuckwad, this isn't the first time. We live in a society where cops can kill someone unarmed on video and still get away with it, using a banned choke hold as well. Frank Cerpico delt with his own back in the 70s and had his own fellow officers turn against him. 

The problem isn't just about cooruption. The problem is allowing an institution to create a wall to protect itself. If you allow anything in government to police itself, be it cooruption, or simply policing itself with no external forces overseeing it, it can create conditions that lead to bad policy and bad training and lack of trust. 

The issue is the economy, the issue is crime because of the economy, the issue is lack of investment in both society and police training that foster trust between the two. This is something minorities have been saying even before I was born.

Taking Wilson and extrapolating the entire history of mistrust and blaming the people who live it every day is not the solution. If you want the cops to go home safely and the suspects to be injury free then keep re reading that OP article instead of being ignorant fuck.

 

 

 

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how old you are doesn't lend

how old you are doesn't lend you any credibility. congratulations on keeping your carcass alive for nearly half a century. what lends credibility is knowledge of the facts. until then you can identify the issues all you want, and we'll all continue dismissing you.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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butterbattle wrote:The

butterbattle wrote:

The report on the Brown case asserts that the forensic evidence supports the story that Brown was shot and killed while charging at Wilson, as opposed to shot and killed while trying to run away.

No, those are only the bullets that hit him, he was shot at while running away, there are questions about his arm position when hit which could have been facking away or facing Wilson. Tell me why anyone would stop running unless they were hit or at a minumum hearing shots? If I think I am going to get hit, I'm going to stop. Willson's trial was a dog and pony show and symptomatic of assuming police do nothig wrong. There were several prosicuters in the media outside this case saying the way it played out was highly irregular. 

And again. even assuming Willsion's innocence, what is still there is a lack of trust. it is fucking absurd to think those who are living it every day don't want to trust the process. This is a long term chronic problem.

I can give everyone reading this "Brown should not have reacted the way he did". But knowing what both sides said, the way it plays out is that Wilson lost his cool. Both Brown's friend and Wilson say the struggle started in close proximity to the car. 

I do not believe Wilson when he said he was polite about asking them to get off the street.

I do believe Brown's friend when he said Wilson shouted at him. And I believe Brown's freind when he says the car pulled up close from the start. That says to me Wilson went into it with the attitude of "I have a badge, I am in control".

Even in my personal life with my mom, when she shouts at me, most people when shouted at are going to have a negitive reaction to it. No matter how wrong Brown was it is still a nautral reaction when someone uses a angry tone. It makes much more sense that Wilson was angry not polite.

No one likes to be shouted at, no one likes to have their space invaded. I am not addressing legal issues, I am addressing conditions, and baseed upon the facts neither side is in dispute over, it makes much more sense to me that Wilson got angry that Brown didn't respond the way he wanted. 

And what would make someone get physical with a guy that big outside of ego of title? Wilson said he was huge and yea he was. So once you know a guy that big isn't going to do what you say, how stupid are you to make physical contact without backup? That was male testosterone,  by Brown and by Wilson. But only one of them is in a position of training and should be much more aware of their own emotions and reactions. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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iwbiek wrote:Brian37 wrote:I

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon.

i highly doubt that, considering you can't even fucking spell them.

 

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

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Vastet wrote:iwbiek

Vastet wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon.

i highly doubt that, considering you can't even fucking spell them.

 

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

This is funny, so by this logic "Gawad" is real because I spelllleed it wrong.

Never claimed to be a good speller. But since you are laughing be consistent and jump on Iwbiek for not capitalizing his sentences. Iwbiek is dumb as rocks too if we go by that logic. I don't think he is dumb just wrong. 

ALLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAH does not exhist. Ok Allah is real.

Keep staring at my fingertip while I point at the moon.

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Vastet
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Brian37 wrote:Vastet

Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon.

i highly doubt that, considering you can't even fucking spell them.

 

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

This is funny, so by this logic "Gawad" is real because I spelllleed it wrong.

Only by your definition of logic. Which happens to not be logic. lol

Brian37 wrote:

Never claimed to be a good speller.

As if spelling is even worth a mentioin the giant list of flaws with your name at the top.

Brian37 wrote:
But since you are laughing be consistent and jump on Iwbiek for not capitalizing his sentences.

Spelling and grammar are two different things. Think before you type and it won't be so easy to ridicule you.

Brian37 wrote:
Iwbiek is dumb as rocks too if we go by that logic. I don't think he is dumb just wrong. 

ALLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAH does not exhist. Ok Allah is real.

Keep staring at my fingertip while I point at the moon.

*shakes head at the futility*

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

Vastet wrote:

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
I haven't mapped out the entire genome but I do know what adinine guanine thymime and cytosyine are. Not even a neurosugon.

i highly doubt that, considering you can't even fucking spell them.

 

Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

This is funny, so by this logic "Gawad" is real because I spelllleed it wrong.

Only by your definition of logic. Which happens to not be logic. lol
Brian37 wrote:

Never claimed to be a good speller.

As if spelling is even worth a mentioin the giant list of flaws with your name at the top.
Brian37 wrote:
But since you are laughing be consistent and jump on Iwbiek for not capitalizing his sentences.
Spelling and grammar are two different things. Think before you type and it won't be so easy to ridicule you.
Brian37 wrote:
Iwbiek is dumb as rocks too if we go by that logic. I don't think he is dumb just wrong. 

ALLLLLLLLLLLAAAAAAH does not exhist. Ok Allah is real.

Keep staring at my fingertip while I point at the moon.

*shakes head at the futility*

Splllegingk and grummer when done wrong equal invisible pink unicorns. Gothcha, remember that the next time Ibweik types a paragraph without capital letters. 

Still no evidence at all that evolution requires any religion or holy person to understand scientific reality. Religions are still an evolutionary product of flawed perceptions.

Bout lough allllll u wnt if it makesz you huppy.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Splllegingk

Brian37 wrote:
Splllegingk and grummer when done wrong equal invisible pink unicorns.

No. Invisible pink unicorns equals invisible pink unicorns. Bad spelling equals bad spelling. Bad grammar equals bad grammar. They are all separate and distinct concepts. Try keeping up.

Brian37 wrote:
Gothcha

You'll never 'get' anyone. You're too self centred.

Brian37 wrote:
remember that the next time Ibweik types a paragraph without capital letters.

You're the one stalking people, not me. You remember the last guy who did that? You sound more like him than you realise. Maybe you'll share the same fate.

Brian37 wrote:
Still no evidence at all that evolution requires any religion or holy person to understand scientific reality. Religions are still an evolutionary product of flawed perceptions.

Still can't stay on topic or discuss anything rationally, still as bad as a theist.

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Brian37 wrote:No, those are

Brian37 wrote:

No, those are only the bullets that hit him, he was shot at while running away, there are questions about his arm position when hit which could have been facking away or facing Wilson. Tell me why anyone would stop running unless they were hit or at a minumum hearing shots? If I think I am going to get hit, I'm going to stop. Willson's trial was a dog and pony show and symptomatic of assuming police do nothig wrong. There were several prosicuters in the media outside this case saying the way it played out was highly irregular. 

That doesn't even make sense. Once the shooting started, it was over in seconds, he wouldn't have had time to spin in circles and get shot at from multiple directions. The media REPORTED that he was shot in the back before the autopsy. That was later proven false. Either he was shot while facing the officer, or the autopsy was performed poorly.

 

Quote:
 

I do not believe Wilson when he said he was polite about asking them to get off the street.

I do believe Brown's friend when he said Wilson shouted at him. And I believe Brown's freind when he says the car pulled up close from the start. That says to me Wilson went into it with the attitude of "I have a badge, I am in control".

And all you have to support that position is speculation and faith.

 

Quote:

Even in my personal life with my mom, when she shouts at me, most people when shouted at are going to have a negitive reaction to it. No matter how wrong Brown was it is still a nautral reaction when someone uses a angry tone. It makes much more sense that Wilson was angry not polite.

Well he was a person being stopped by a police officer shortly after committing a violent crime. Such a person would likely respond negatively towards a cop regardless of the cops demeanor. Better evidence is that cops in Ferguson have a documented history of treating blacks with disrespect, so if Wilson was polite, that would have made him the exception to the norm. Not proof that he wasn't, but cause to doubt that he was.

 

Quote:

No one likes to be shouted at, no one likes to have their space invaded.

Bullshit, some people get off on it.

 

Quote:

And what would make someone get physical with a guy that big outside of ego of title? Wilson said he was huge and yea he was. So once you know a guy that big isn't going to do what you say, how stupid are you to make physical contact without backup? That was male testosterone,  by Brown and by Wilson. But only one of them is in a position of training and should be much more aware of their own emotions and reactions.

Said by someone who has never been in a job where they faced the possibility of violent confrontation with someone physically larger than them. Police confront people larger than them in potentially volatile situations every day. It is part of their job description. A coward like you would or at least should be fired from such a position in short order. A police officer afraid to confront a jaywalker without calling for backup is pretty worthless. And once again you are a sexist fuck,

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:butterbattle

Brian37 wrote:

butterbattle wrote:

The report on the Brown case asserts that the forensic evidence supports the story that Brown was shot and killed while charging at Wilson, as opposed to shot and killed while trying to run away.

No, those are only the bullets that hit him, he was shot at while running away, there are questions about his arm position when hit which could have been facking away or facing Wilson.

How do you know that he was shot at while running away? At best, the witness' statements were inconsistent on whether he was shot at from the front or back. 

I wasn't there. I wasn't on the jury. I didn't have access to the crime scene or his dead body for forensic analysis. And neither did you. All I know is that both the jury and the report have ruled in Wilson's favor. 

Brian37 wrote:
Tell me why anyone would stop running unless they were hit or at a minumum hearing shots? If I think I am going to get hit, I'm going to stop.

Wtf?

Assuming your scenario, I can think of lots of possible reasons why he would have done that. Maybe he had an aggressive personality and didn't like police officers. Maybe he decided that Wilson would shoot him anyways, so his best chance of survival was to take Wilson down first. 

What does it matter in the slightest what you would do in that situation? You weren't the one being shot at. Are you implying that turning around and charging would not be a logical decision, so Brown couldn't have done it? That would be a complete non sequitur, not to mention that contradicts what you've already said yourself, namely that both men made poor decisions during this event. 

Brian37 wrote:
Willson's trial was a dog and pony show and symptomatic of assuming police do nothig wrong. There were several prosicuters in the media outside this case saying the way it played out was highly irregular.

Ooooohh, okay. 

So it's a conspiracy. The prosecutors were in on it and didn't try their hardest to find him guilty. The jury was also in on it and/or they were all really stupid.  

And your evidence for this is, "There were several prosicuters in the media...saying the way it played out was highly irregular." 

Would that be an accurate summary of your position?

Brian37 wrote:
I do not believe Wilson when he said he was polite about asking them to get off the street.

I do believe Brown's friend when he said Wilson shouted at him. And I believe Brown's freind when he says the car pulled up close from the start. That says to me Wilson went into it with the attitude of "I have a badge, I am in control".

Even in my personal life with my mom, when she shouts at me, most people when shouted at are going to have a negitive reaction to it. No matter how wrong Brown was it is still a nautral reaction when someone uses a angry tone. It makes much more sense that Wilson was angry not polite.

No one likes to be shouted at, no one likes to have their space invaded. I am not addressing legal issues, I am addressing conditions, and baseed upon the facts neither side is in dispute over, it makes much more sense to me that Wilson got angry that Brown didn't respond the way he wanted. 

Oooohh.

So, based on your personal experiences with your mom, you know how you would "feel" if Wilson yelled at you, so you "believe" Brown's friend's version of the story because you "believe" you would also "feel" angry if a police officer yelled at you.

Okay. 

Brian37 wrote:
And what would make someone get physical with a guy

How do you know Wilson was the one to "get physical?" Is that an undisputed fact?

Brian37 wrote:
that big outside of ego of title?

Oh gee, I don't know. Maybe because it's his job?

Brian37 wrote:
So once you know a guy that big isn't going to do what you say, how stupid are you to make physical contact without backup? 

Well...you say it's stupid, but we already know the result. If you've been trained and you have a gun, you have the upper hand. So really, Brown was the one that was stupid for assaulting Wilson. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare