For Americans on here...If you have no debt, according to Obamacare YOU DON'T EXIST...FOR REAL!!!

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For Americans on here...If you have no debt, according to Obamacare YOU DON'T EXIST...FOR REAL!!!

Beyond Saving
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 Well yeah, if you aren't

 Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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It's guys like this that

It's guys like this that ruined conservative parties.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Beyond Saving wrote: Well

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

 

So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 


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So........if you have no

So........if you have no credit history, it's harder to apply for insurance?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like this culture of debt either, but I don't understand the direction this article is going.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Beyond Saving wrote:Well

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

Burnedout wrote:
 So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 

What? Where did he say that?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Burnedout wrote:Beyond

Burnedout wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

 

So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 

No, practice your reading comprehension- it makes it harder to confirm that you are who you say you are because you don't have as extensive of an electronic record. It is easy to commit fraud if no one verifies your identity and verification through credit records is currently the most extensive, quickest and easiest verification that exists. If you choose not to participate, verifying your identity is more difficult and thus more time consuming. That is your choice and choices have consequences. The only other option would be to verify everyone through drivers licenses, which would be slow, cumbersome and much more expensive, for what purpose? To be fair?

Until the government is as efficient and quick as credit agencies, verifying through government sources like drivers licenses will be more difficult than verification through private credit agencies who have spent years developing systems specifically designed to verify identities in seconds. Given your posts, I suspect that you would oppose the government collecting enough information on you to be as efficient as credit agencies. So you oppose it, then whine when it takes longer? Grow the fuck up. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

Burnedout wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

 

So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 

No, practice your reading comprehension- it makes it harder to confirm that you are who you say you are because you don't have as extensive of an electronic record. It is easy to commit fraud if no one verifies your identity and verification through credit records is currently the most extensive, quickest and easiest verification that exists. If you choose not to participate, verifying your identity is more difficult and thus more time consuming. That is your choice and choices have consequences. The only other option would be to verify everyone through drivers licenses, which would be slow, cumbersome and much more expensive, for what purpose? To be fair?

Until the government is as efficient and quick as credit agencies, verifying through government sources like drivers licenses will be more difficult than verification through private credit agencies who have spent years developing systems specifically designed to verify identities in seconds. Given your posts, I suspect that you would oppose the government collecting enough information on you to be as efficient as credit agencies. So you oppose it, then whine when it takes longer? Grow the fuck up. 

 

Ahh...I DID read it and DID comprehend it...I was just making a general statement.  


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butterbattle wrote:Beyond

butterbattle wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well yeah, if you aren't in an electronic system that can easily be checked they need your drivers license to confirm your identity. Weren't you one that was on here flipping out over illegals? How else do they make sure you are a legal citizen and thus eligible? Seriously, there are much larger issues with this clusterfuck than the identification requirements. Even when I sold health insurance over a decade ago, it was common practice to pull a credit report and if there wasn't one, it was cause for delay in issuing the policy.

Burnedout wrote:
 So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 

What? Where did he say that?

 

I didn't say he did say anything...I was just making a general statement. 


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 Silly me, thinking that a

 Silly me, thinking that a response quoting me was a response to what I said. 


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Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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 So I can't make a general

 So I can't make a general statement on something without arousing everybody's suspicion....touchy touchy......


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Burnedout wrote: So I can't

Burnedout wrote:

 So I can't make a general statement on something without arousing everybody's suspicion....touchy touchy......

Oh? 

So, you weren't quoting Beyond, but you still stand by your original statement and the OP despite the fact that he just tore it apart? Or did you want to backpedal further?

Or are you just going to ignore me like you usually do?

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:Burnedout

butterbattle wrote:

Burnedout wrote:

 So I can't make a general statement on something without arousing everybody's suspicion....touchy touchy......

Oh? 

So, you weren't quoting Beyond, but you still stand by your original statement and the OP despite the fact that he just tore it apart? Or did you want to backpedal further?

Or are you just going to ignore me like you usually do?

 

So what if I quoted him...where is it a rule that everything quoted is a direct response?  Personally, I don't give a shit.  As for ignoring you, I never know exactly what you are getting at.  Maybe I am reading too much between the line to suit you.  


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it's not that big of a deal.

it's not that big of a deal. i only ever bought one thing on credit when i still lived in the US and that was my fender american '52 telecaster reissue. i bought it with the music store's credit card and had no credit history whatsoever. yes, it took about 5 minutes longer to approve me over the phone, but that was it. that's the only thing i ever used that card for and i've never had another credit card since. of course, one solution would be government ID cards like they have here in slovakia (and most other european countries). honestly, i have no problem with it. makes doing business a shit-load easier.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Burnedout wrote:So...if you

Burnedout wrote:

So...if you live a debt free life by choice...it effectively makes you an enemy of the state...WOW!....I swear I am living in an alternative universe. 

They need to confirm your identity.  A credit check is a way to do that.  If you don't have a rating with a credit bureau you can just confirm your identity via mail.  The author of that website is a fucking moron, or grasping at straws to attack Obamacare.  

Debt and credit aren't the only means of being verifiable through credit agencies.  Also, Obamacare doesn't pretend like you don't exist, in fact it's the opposite... they verify your existence with other means... rendering your title choice for this thread as false.  Most electric companies and some other utility providers will list your payment history on your credit report.  If you rent an apartment, that is likely to be listed on your credit report.  If you've ever had a wage attachment or a judgement against you, that's also likely on your credit report serving as a means to verify.

In other words, relax.  You know what really sucks?  NOT HAVING AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE!

 

 

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Sapient wrote:In other

Sapient wrote:

In other words, relax.  You know what really sucks?  NOT HAVING AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE!

Yeah, have you seen the prices post Bamacare? I don't know how anyone on the bronze plan can even consider paying the deductible and copays. Unless you are getting it for straight up free, you might as well be uninsured. The thing should really be retitled "Yet Another Redistribution To The Baby Boomer Generation Act", young people got totally fucked over. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Burnedout wrote:As for

Burnedout wrote:
As for ignoring you, I never know exactly what you are getting at.

Obviously.

Edit: If someone posted something substantial in response to me, and I didn't understand it, then I would ask more questions for clarification. At the very least, I shouldn't continue making the same assertions that they already addressed and pretend they didn't address it. 

Quote:
Maybe I am reading too much between the line to suit you.  

Since you don't even address what I say, it's kind of impossible to know how you're reading my posts. Most likely, you're just not reading my posts at all, considering that I even anticipated that you would just post more links, so I addressed it in advance. But, you continued to do it anyways. Nor are you even analyzing the links that you post.

You keep harping about not trusting the government, not trusting the scientists, etc. etc., but you just parrot everything you post with barely any input of your own. You're a shining example of psychological projection.

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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butterbattle wrote:Burnedout

butterbattle wrote:

Burnedout wrote:
As for ignoring you, I never know exactly what you are getting at.

Obviously.

Edit: If someone posted something substantial in response to me, and I didn't understand it, then I would ask more questions for clarification. At the very least, I shouldn't continue making the same assertions that they already addressed and pretend they didn't address it. 

Quote:
Maybe I am reading too much between the line to suit you.  

Since you don't even address what I say, it's kind of impossible to know how you're reading my posts. Most likely, you're just not reading my posts at all, considering that I even anticipated that you would just post more links, so I addressed it in advance. But, you continued to do it anyways. Nor are you even analyzing the links that you post.

You keep harping about not trusting the government, not trusting the scientists, etc. etc., but you just parrot everything you post with barely any input of your own. You're a shining example of psychological projection.

 

 

And it appears to me that you are a shining example of mischaracterization.


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Oh? Do you even know what

Oh? Do you even know what that word means? What part of my characterization was incorrect? All of it?

----------------

- I've accused you of ignoring my posts.

You've certainly done that. In fact, with this response, you're glossing over most of what I wrote in post #17. Of course, I didn't post the most substantial, on-topic comment in this thread. That would be either post #6 from Beyond Saving or post #15 from Sapient, both of them explaining how ignorant the OP is. You certainly haven't responded to either of those posts either as they pertain to your OP yet. I suppose it's possible that you haven't gotten around to it. But, considering the fact that you still haven't addressed my comments in this thread:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34847

, specifically, post #14 and #20, while continuing to post stupid links and assert your skepticism of the scientific community while blindly following conspiracy theories, both of which I've already commented on multiple times, I'm not going to hold my breath. 

---------------

- I've accused you of posting links without explaining your own position or understanding them.

You've certainly provided ample evidence of that as well. All you wrote for the opening of this thread was:

Burnedout wrote:
I hope this link works this time.

Then, when other people pointed out how stupid that article is, you've said, in defense of it.......nothing.

In the other thread, you even wrote, on one of your links:

Quote:
Just whistling by.....

If that's not a I-don't-understand-this-topic-well-enough-to-explain-my-own-position-so-I'll-just-post-shit-from-random-websites, then the only thing left to do is to just say it, and I doubt you're going to say it.

---------------

- I've accused you of being hypocritical and asserting that you are a skeptic, so you don't blindly believe the government, etc., but you blindly believe the sources you post without questioning them. 

That seems to be the case. You don't seem to have actually analyzed any of the links you've posted so far, but accepted them as legitimate criticisms of the government and of the scientific community.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Beyond Saving wrote:Sapient

Beyond Saving wrote:

Sapient wrote:

In other words, relax.  You know what really sucks?  NOT HAVING AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE!

Yeah, have you seen the prices post Bamacare? 

Obviously.  I didn't have insurance for 15 years.  I have extensive records of the rates and plans that were available to me during the last few years that I was researching and considering getting insurance.  I am now 13 months into having insurance thanks to Obama.  My end cost of insurance last year was $105 per month, this year it'll be $135 per month.  That insurance is comparable to a $250-$300 plan from 2-3 years ago.  It was brutal to live without health insurance for so long, and I view Obamacare as one of the greatest pieces of legislation in my lifetime.  

Is it perfect?  Of course not.  

Would it have been better if lobbyists weren't in the pockets of both parties?  Of course.  

But it's abundantly better than the system we had, and I look forward to seeing if we can do the right thing and continue to improve upon it.  

 

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butterbattle wrote:Oh? Do

butterbattle wrote:

Oh? Do you even know what that word means? What part of my characterization was incorrect? All of it?

----------------

- I've accused you of ignoring my posts.

You've certainly done that. In fact, with this response, you're glossing over most of what I wrote in post #17. Of course, I didn't post the most substantial, on-topic comment in this thread. That would be either post #6 from Beyond Saving or post #15 from Sapient, both of them explaining how ignorant the OP is. You certainly haven't responded to either of those posts either as they pertain to your OP yet. I suppose it's possible that you haven't gotten around to it. But, considering the fact that you still haven't addressed my comments in this thread:

http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/34847

, specifically, post #14 and #20, while continuing to post stupid links and assert your skepticism of the scientific community while blindly following conspiracy theories, both of which I've already commented on multiple times, I'm not going to hold my breath. 

---------------

- I've accused you of posting links without explaining your own position or understanding them.

You've certainly provided ample evidence of that as well. All you wrote for the opening of this thread was:

Burnedout wrote:
I hope this link works this time.

Then, when other people pointed out how stupid that article is, you've said, in defense of it.......nothing.

In the other thread, you even wrote, on one of your links:

Quote:
Just whistling by.....

If that's not a I-don't-understand-this-topic-well-enough-to-explain-my-own-position-so-I'll-just-post-shit-from-random-websites, then the only thing left to do is to just say it, and I doubt you're going to say it.

---------------

- I've accused you of being hypocritical and asserting that you are a skeptic, so you don't blindly believe the government, etc., but you blindly believe the sources you post without questioning them. 

That seems to be the case. You don't seem to have actually analyzed any of the links you've posted so far, but accepted them as legitimate criticisms of the government and of the scientific community.

 

So who says I have to explain anything?  Where is it written?  I have an opinion and I express it.  Don't like my opinion, unless I am attacking you, as you have done me, I couldn't give a rat's ass.  You act as if it is a SIN to have an opinion and NOT explain it.  What if I don't give a shit about it?  

 

But I will tell you what...just because I am a nice guy, I will be what you want me to be, JUST TO MAKE YOU HAPPY.  Are you happy now?  


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Sapient wrote:Obviously.  I

Sapient wrote:

Obviously.  I didn't have insurance for 15 years.  I have extensive records of the rates and plans that were available to me during the last few years that I was researching and considering getting insurance.  I am now 13 months into having insurance thanks to Obama.  My end cost of insurance last year was $105 per month, this year it'll be $135 per month.  That insurance is comparable to a $250-$300 plan from 2-3 years ago.  It was brutal to live without health insurance for so long, and I view Obamacare as one of the greatest pieces of legislation in my lifetime.  

Is it perfect?  Of course not.  

Would it have been better if lobbyists weren't in the pockets of both parties?  Of course.  

But it's abundantly better than the system we had, and I look forward to seeing if we can do the right thing and continue to improve upon it.  

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/obamacare-sends-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/

And how much are we paying for it? And if you couldn't afford $300 a month, how in the world are you going to pay the $6000 out of pocket costs if you need to? It would have been a fuckton cheaper to just throw you on medicaid (or just cover your care through various charitable organizations some of which are now taxed and disappearing thanks to Bamacare- it actually cuts federal aid to hospitals that treat too many uninsured people- heaven forbid a hostpital is too charitable), and we wouldn't be giving a bunch of money to the vampire scumbag pieces of shit in the health insurance industry. 

And who is paying for this shit? For the most part, males aged 25-30 and to a lesser extent females aged 25-30. Top it off with regulations that actively discourage companies from hiring part time work or allowing part time workers to put in extra hours for even one week, forcing them to work 2 jobs for generally less profit. All for what? To save you a $150/month? The millenials are getting totally fucked over, I'm not sure if it is even possible for someone to do what I did anymore- it is certainly a ton more difficult, because $150/month is a lot more to a 20 something. That is what really pisses me off and puts me in a rage. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Hmmm, the way you frame our

Burnedout wrote:
But I will tell you what...just because I am a nice guy, I will be what you want me to be, JUST TO MAKE YOU HAPPY.  Are you happy now?  

 

Hmmm, the way you frame our discussion is quite odd.

The only thing I "wanted" you to be was to be open-minded and to have an actual productive conversation with me. If you're going to do that, then yes, I would be happy.

But, if you just mean that you're going to pretend that you agree, then no, of course not. That's stupid. Even if you were serious and not just being passive-aggressive, I still wouldn't want you to blindly agree with everything I say. That's no different, in form, than what you seem to be doing now.

And clearly, you do give some shits about spreading your opinion, as evidenced by these multiple threads. So, the only thing you could mean is that you care about giving your opinion, but you don't care to explain your opinion. That seems odd, imo. See, what's truly important to me is not what your opinion is, it's how you form your opinion. If you had read my previous posts, you would already know that, and I wouldn't be repeating myself. Practical consequences aside, I "like" your opinion to the extent that it is based on reason and evidence and "don't like" it to the extent that it is not. And, until you understand that AND apply the same level of skepticism to your own beliefs, I can't get through to you. So, no, I can't force you to change your opinion nor do you "have" to explain yourself, but that is irrelevant. Rather, I assume that, like me, you want your position to be based on evidence and reason, so you will search for them. Then, when anyone else presents evidence and reason against what you currently believe, you will consider modifying your own opinion in light of it. 

 

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, | As I foretold you, were all spirits, and | Are melted into air, into thin air; | And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, | The cloud-capped towers, the gorgeous palaces, | The solemn temples, the great globe itself, - Yea, all which it inherit, shall dissolve, | And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, | Leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff | As dreams are made on, and our little life | Is rounded with a sleep. - Shakespeare


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Beyond Saving wrote:Sapient

Beyond Saving wrote:

Sapient wrote:

Obviously.  I didn't have insurance for 15 years.  I have extensive records of the rates and plans that were available to me during the last few years that I was researching and considering getting insurance.  I am now 13 months into having insurance thanks to Obama.  My end cost of insurance last year was $105 per month, this year it'll be $135 per month.  That insurance is comparable to a $250-$300 plan from 2-3 years ago.  It was brutal to live without health insurance for so long, and I view Obamacare as one of the greatest pieces of legislation in my lifetime.  

Is it perfect?  Of course not.  

Would it have been better if lobbyists weren't in the pockets of both parties?  Of course.  

But it's abundantly better than the system we had, and I look forward to seeing if we can do the right thing and continue to improve upon it.  

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/obamacare-sends-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/

And how much are we paying for it? And if you couldn't afford $300 a month, how in the world are you going to pay the $6000 out of pocket costs if you need to?

What are you talking about?  You don't know my plan.  I don't have a deductible, and the plan covers 80%.  Coverage starts at the first sniffle.  Ironic that my healthcare savings last year was roughly $6,000.

 

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It would have been a fuckton cheaper to just throw you on medicaid (or just cover your care through various charitable organizations some of which are now taxed and disappearing thanks to Bamacare- it actually cuts federal aid to hospitals that treat too many uninsured people- heaven forbid a hostpital is too charitable), and we wouldn't be giving a bunch of money to the vampire scumbag pieces of shit in the health insurance industry.

I don't qualify for medicaid. 

 

 

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And who is paying for this shit? For the most part, males aged 25-30 and to a lesser extent females aged 25-30. Top it off with regulations that actively discourage companies from hiring part time work or allowing part time workers to put in extra hours for even one week, forcing them to work 2 jobs for generally less profit. All for what? To save you a $150/month? The millenials are getting totally fucked over, I'm not sure if it is even possible for someone to do what I did anymore- it is certainly a ton more difficult, because $150/month is a lot more to a 20 something. That is what really pisses me off and puts me in a rage. 

I already had a job that kept me in part time to avoid giving me benefits.  I've been working there for 7 years and I'm one of their best employees but they never gave me full time to avoid benefits.  Now I know where I stand, I wont be given full time, and I'm actively looking for a new job.

As for "who's paying for it..."  We all are, including me.

Does your hatred for Obama make it hard for you to be happy for someone whose life was dramatically improved because of it?  There's a shitload of us!  I can't recall a better piece of legislation for my life in my lifetime.  

 

 

 

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Beyond Saving
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Sapient wrote:Beyond Saving

Sapient wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/28/obamacare-sends-health-premiums-skyrocketing-by-as/

And how much are we paying for it? And if you couldn't afford $300 a month, how in the world are you going to pay the $6000 out of pocket costs if you need to?

What are you talking about?  You don't know my plan.  I don't have a deductible, and the plan covers 80%.  Coverage starts at the first sniffle.  Ironic that my healthcare savings last year was roughly $6,000.

That is what it is for the "bronze" plans, the cheapest plans under that act. 

 

Quote:

Quote:
It would have been a fuckton cheaper to just throw you on medicaid (or just cover your care through various charitable organizations some of which are now taxed and disappearing thanks to Bamacare- it actually cuts federal aid to hospitals that treat too many uninsured people- heaven forbid a hostpital is too charitable), and we wouldn't be giving a bunch of money to the vampire scumbag pieces of shit in the health insurance industry.

I don't qualify for medicaid. 

I'm saying it would have been cheaper to just expand medicaid or other single payer system to cover whatever random ass number we decided was too poor. It is cheaper to just flat out cover whatever the costs are if you get sick than to purchase insurance- purchasing insurance requires a bunch more people to get involved, all of whom earn salaries. If the government is paying anyway, it has a deep enough pool to cover actual costs without needing an insurance company.

 

Quote:

I already had a job that kept me in part time to avoid giving me benefits.  I've been working there for 7 years and I'm one of their best employees but they never gave me full time to avoid benefits.  Now I know where I stand, I wont be given full time, and I'm actively looking for a new job.

And wouldn't you be better off if they could give you more than 30 hours a week without having such an extremely large increase in the hourly rate? 

 

Quote:

As for "who's paying for it..."  We all are, including me.

I'm not, except for the mandate penalty because I actually hate health insurance companies more than I hate government. Obviously you aren't either since your net benefit is $150/month compared to pre-law prices- it is probably quite a bit larger of a benefit now since prices have increased since then across the board due to law related and unrelated changes. Unless you are in some way paying more than that in, you are a net recipient and thus not paying.  

 

Quote:


Does your hatred for Obama make it hard for you to be happy for someone whose life was dramatically improved because of it?  There's a shitload of us!  I can't recall a better piece of legislation for my life in my lifetime.  

No, I hate Obama as much as I hate every politician, his wife is actually the one in the family capable of actually irritating me when she shows up on my cooking shows. What pisses me off is that people I care for are being hurt and I can only do so much to mitigate the damage done to them in my little corner of the world. While you are sitting there with no fucking deductible, people I care about are being slapped with health insurance that is 150-200% higher for higher deductibles because they committed the sin of making above poverty wages but not being rich enough to skip health insurance entirely. 

So no, I'm not happy for people like you, you're taking it from someone else because you are old enough and unproductive enough and fall into the sainted class. You are stealing it from other people and I have absolutely no respect for that. It is bad enough stealing from the rich, at least it is true as the yarn goes "they can afford it", you're stealing from the young and that to me is completely morally reprehensible. And there are millions across the country that are sitting there getting their cheap/free health insurance and don't give a second thought about who is paying for it. 

It is the kid who works Papa Johns and gets shafted 8 cents a pizza tip, the 20 something that started their own business and has to go into the individual market to purchase insurance, the waitress who is limited to 30 hours a week without a second job, the college student who is no longer allowed to work full time during the summer, the small employer who is looking at making that leap across the magic threshold of 50 employees. Those are the people being hurt. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:I'm

Beyond Saving wrote:

I'm saying it would have been cheaper to just expand medicaid or other single payer system to cover whatever random ass number we decided was too poor. It is cheaper to just flat out cover whatever the costs are if you get sick than to purchase insurance- purchasing insurance requires a bunch more people to get involved, all of whom earn salaries. If the government is paying anyway, it has a deep enough pool to cover actual costs without needing an insurance company.

The insurance companies were in the pockets of the politicians.  The GOP also fought for the thriving aspect of business.  They ensured the healthcare industry stayed a high profit industry, in fact they're more successful now.  It's hard to pin down which party is more to blame, as they both are, but considering the M.O. of both, I assume it's your beloved GOP.

 

 

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Sapient wrote:The insurance

Sapient wrote:

The insurance companies were in the pockets of the politicians.  The GOP also fought for the thriving aspect of business.  They ensured the healthcare industry stayed a high profit industry, in fact they're more successful now.  It's hard to pin down which party is more to blame, as they both are, but considering the M.O. of both, I assume it's your beloved GOP.

What difference does it make who is more to blame? It is a horrible law. And I haven't even voted for my "beloved GOP" in well over a decade. Of course they are more successful, using government to force people to buy your product is very effective. The mystery is why people on the left are all getting in line to support it, apparently getting something for free is enough for them to shut their eyes to all the ideals they espouse. This is easily the most corporatist law passed in my lifetime and it was passed when the supposed anti-corporate party controlled both houses and the presidency.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X