The Pope and World War 3

harleysportster
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The Pope and World War 3

While the guy condemns any sort of war in the name of god, it appears that he supports the campaign against the terrorists in the Middle East. : 

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29190890

Pope Francis warns on 'piecemeal World War III'

 

A "piecemeal" World War III may have already begun with the current spate of crimes, massacres and destruction, Pope Francis has warned.

He was speaking during a visit to Italy's largest military cemetery, where he was commemorating the centenary of World War I.

"War is madness," the Pope said at a memorial to 100,000 Italian soldiers at Redipuglia cemetery near Slovenia.

The Argentine Pope has often condemned the idea of war in God's name.

Only last month, Pope Francis said the international community would be justified in using force to stop what he called "unjust aggression" by Islamic State militants, who have killed or displaced thousands of people in Iraq and Syria, including many Christians, the BBC's David Willey reports.

In Saturday's homily, standing at the altar beneath Italy's fascist-era Redipuglia memorial - where 100,000 Italian soldiers killed during WWI are buried, 60,000 of them unnamed, the Pope paid tribute to the victims of all wars.

"Humanity needs to weep, and this is the time to weep," he said.

"Even today, after the second failure of another world war, perhaps one can speak of a third war, one fought piecemeal, with crimes, massacres, destruction," he said.

The pontiff's visit was also infused with personal meaning, our correspondent says.

His grandfather fought in - and survived - Italy's offensive against the Austro-Hungarian empire, in north-east Italy in 1917 and 1918.

In recent months the Pope has called for an end to conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Gaza, Ukraine, and parts of Africa.

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Brian37
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harleysportster wrote:While

harleysportster wrote:

While the guy condemns any sort of war in the name of god, it appears that he supports the campaign against the terrorists in the Middle East. : 

www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29190890

Pope Francis warns on 'piecemeal World War III'

 

A "piecemeal" World War III may have already begun with the current spate of crimes, massacres and destruction, Pope Francis has warned.

He was speaking during a visit to Italy's largest military cemetery, where he was commemorating the centenary of World War I.

"War is madness," the Pope said at a memorial to 100,000 Italian soldiers at Redipuglia cemetery near Slovenia.

The Argentine Pope has often condemned the idea of war in God's name.

Only last month, Pope Francis said the international community would be justified in using force to stop what he called "unjust aggression" by Islamic State militants, who have killed or displaced thousands of people in Iraq and Syria, including many Christians, the BBC's David Willey reports.

In Saturday's homily, standing at the altar beneath Italy's fascist-era Redipuglia memorial - where 100,000 Italian soldiers killed during WWI are buried, 60,000 of them unnamed, the Pope paid tribute to the victims of all wars.

"Humanity needs to weep, and this is the time to weep," he said.

"Even today, after the second failure of another world war, perhaps one can speak of a third war, one fought piecemeal, with crimes, massacres, destruction," he said.

The pontiff's visit was also infused with personal meaning, our correspondent says.

His grandfather fought in - and survived - Italy's offensive against the Austro-Hungarian empire, in north-east Italy in 1917 and 1918.

In recent months the Pope has called for an end to conflicts in Iraq, Syria, Gaza, Ukraine, and parts of Africa.

 

War IS madness I agree, but his empathy and compassion is in him, not his title, not his religion and not his book. The Cahtolic insitution in its history has always been a Johny come lately on both science and social issues. He is willing to stand up to war, but hides behind his own religion to avoid that far too many in his religion still suport bigotry against gays and sexism in the church itself as far as power. On top of covering up child molestation.

On top of the Pope's prior condeming pratical things like condoms and telling Africans to avoid use of it. The institution of religion itself can talk a good game of peace, but when an individual does, like you claim here, religion still ignores what it really going on.

 

What is really going on when any individual points out good or bad, they are merely pointing out our species behaviors. There is no club or religion required in the world to state the obvious. As Hitchens said "Name me one good deed done, or good thing said, that a believer can do that an atheist cannot do".

Our species ability to get allong should depend on our ability to put humans first and not hide behind our institutions and use conflict as a billboard to promote them. He may be genuine as an individual in what he says, but he is still the president of a god club and it doesn't hurt his club to sound nice as a way to gain converts. 

 

Carol Sagan, not the Pope, has a much better perspective on how we can find peace. If none of us want war, and religion claims to bring peace, then it's failure to do so in it's entire history, should mean we need to take focus off it being special or deserving of pedestals, and put or focus on what our species has in common. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote:we need to

Brian37 wrote:
we need to take focus off it being special or deserving of pedestals, and put or focus on what our species has in common. 




“…instead of ignoring doctrinal or ethical discrepancies and differences with a benign smile, let us instead point them out. Let us not persist in the imbecile idea—common to most of the well-meaning international organizations of our day—that the world’s peoples will get together because ‘we have so much teaching in common’; for this implies that if, after all, it should transpire that we do not have so many beliefs in common, we should have to fight each other. Negatively, it would also imply that people who share the same doctrines never fight each other, which is blatant nonsense….No, our getting together, or at least our not shooting at each other must rest, not on similar religious views, not on the fictitious ‘essential unity’ of all religions and ‘good’ ideologies, but on the simple fact that it is infinitely more pleasant and expedient not to shoot at each other.”


--agehananda bharati

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Beyond Saving
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 As long as people consider

 As long as people consider war insane, we can never täke steps to avoid the seemingly logical decisions that ultimately lead to war. WWI and WWII didn't happen because people were crazy. Often, when we look at history, we fall into using our current perspective to interpret it. With vastly larger amouns of information seperated from the emotional reality experienced by the people who made these decisions, it is easy to see them as 'madness' or irrational, when at the time they weren't. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: As

Beyond Saving wrote:

 As long as people consider war insane, we can never täke steps to avoid the seemingly logical decisions that ultimately lead to war. WWI and WWII didn't happen because people were crazy. Often, when we look at history, we fall into using our current perspective to interpret it. With vastly larger amouns of information seperated from the emotional reality experienced by the people who made these decisions, it is easy to see them as 'madness' or irrational, when at the time they weren't. 

Well stated 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Beyond Saving wrote: As

Beyond Saving wrote:

 As long as people consider war insane, we can never täke steps to avoid the seemingly logical decisions that ultimately lead to war. WWI and WWII didn't happen because people were crazy. Often, when we look at history, we fall into using our current perspective to interpret it. With vastly larger amouns of information seperated from the emotional reality experienced by the people who made these decisions, it is easy to see them as 'madness' or irrational, when at the time they weren't. 

War is part of our existence, in that sense there is a reason for every war. But that does not make the excuse for it a good one. Ultimately the rational reason for all war is resoruces and power. It is easier for one group vs another to beat the shit out of each other to get control than it is to use diplomacy.

Which is another reason to call religion poison. It distorts our natural behavior to an ideological political level which allows us to ignore  that we are not a separate species.

Religion never left Germany or even the Soviet Union dispite the bullshit claims of the west that those states were godless communists. The religion at that point was the state, but even then religion was not condemned, both those states had their pet religions that they favored but also had to obey the state without question.

Humans really need to get over this grandious idea that there is something special about us by proxy of birth, race, blood, nationality or political affilation. Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" speech states the reality of our existence as a species. 

War is madness in the context that  humans use it stupidly thinking "Just one more time", and "If only I can get control I can stop it forever". Friend and foe alike die and power shifts over time and eventually our entire species will go extinct. Yes unfortunately war is a natural part of our evolution. But it does not have to be something we cant work to minimizing and avoiding.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote:The religion

Brian37 wrote:
The religion at that point was the state



oh christ, we're dragging up this tired load of bullshit again, are we? not only is this statement meaningless, the idea of the state was meaningless in both fascist and communist societies. if you went to work in the state apparatus, it meant you were being quietly put away from real power.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:War is part of

Brian37 wrote:

War is part of our existence, in that sense there is a reason for every war. But that does not make the excuse for it a good one. Ultimately the rational reason for all war is resoruces and power. It is easier for one group vs another to beat the shit out of each other to get control than it is to use diplomacy.

The world doesn't fit your simplistic model. There are many other reasons countries go to war. 

Quote:

Which is another reason to call religion poison. It distorts our natural behavior to an ideological political level which allows us to ignore  that we are not a separate species.

So religion isn't natural?

 

 

 

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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I see alot of

complaining but ??? what solutions does he propose? If he's infallable then he should have no problem coming up with something.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
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he's only infallible when he

he's only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of doctrine and dogma. he's not supposed to be infallible in matters of politics, social problems, etc.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I know

iwbiek wrote:
he's only infallible when he speaks ex cathedra on matters of doctrine and dogma. he's not supposed to be infallible in matters of politics, social problems, etc.

But I can't get that working for me. Infallibility is infallibility, and if he can't use it in all cases then what good is anything he says. And then again--why can't the removal of war be a church doctrine---if it isn't, that way he would be infallible----I think---maybe-----(insert your own here ) He could then properly instruct his followers to protest war---not likely though is it. Religion is a society unlike all others, so wouldn't the same decisions have to be made in either case.

He doesn't seem to know that it's to late to end wars anyway--the trap is sprung. Without war and crime our economy would loose a few millions, or many, millions of jobs. Congressman Abscound (whoever) wants to keep his state afloat by building more warships that aren't needed just to keep getting volts (and votes too) and keeping jobs. So now what??? End war and people go hungry--keep it and people die.  The prison industry needs crime to be profitable and some places are accomodating them. (a life sentence for stealing a wedge of pizza, jeeez) Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.

https://sites.google.com/site/oldseers

Knowledge trumps faith

Lies are nothing more then falsehoods searching for the truth


iwbiek
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What the hell good is

What the hell good is anything anybody says? Seven years on internet message boards haven't given me a good prognosis in that area.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:What the hell

iwbiek wrote:
What the hell good is anything anybody says? Seven years on internet message boards haven't given me a good prognosis in that area.

 

More guns?