Tactics and making progress.

Brian37
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Tactics and making progress.

 Everyone reading this on issues of economics and and even good use of logic and defense of science. Do not think short term. If anyone here reading this thinks it is all doom and gloom, you are thinking short term. You look at the ignorance of our species thousands of years ago, we still progressed. Just with atheists, you look where our voice was in 01 compared to how big it is now, there really is a huge difference. You do not have to own a website, or be rich or famous. Those at the top of a movement are the few and stand on the bulk of the rest of us that make progress possible.

Now having said that, it is also important to not try to set up utopias ourselves. We are still a diverse species and even among liberal theists or liberal atheists we still are individuals and will not agree all the time. Everything boils down to economics and education. We still have to accept that we are diverse and that means humans will have different economic goals. It is ok to expect the gap not to get too lopsided, but it is unreasonable to expect everyone to make the same pay. 

We do not need to be like the tea party suggesting a Che revolution or replace our open market. It simply needs to be purged of greed. Every single post counts. I am not a fan of idiots who think "what are you doing other than posting"? I can tell you that my current mindset and motivation was shaped, not by books or rich famous atheists, but merely reading the posts of other atheists. Every post counts, every voice counts. It wont happen over night but it cant happen if we do nothing at all.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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 Now here are where my

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself. 

Also stupidly ignoring that by seeing that atheists disagree debunks the myth that we all are evil Stalin loving communists is good. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote: Now here are

Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself.




yeah, i'm waiting for them to start, too, because i've never seen any. not on this site, anyhow.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Brian37
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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself.


yeah, i'm waiting for them to start, too, because i've never seen any. not on this site, anyhow.

Sure you do think I want a utopia, otherwise you wouldn't have such a childish kneejerk reaction as to why I call religion poison. Cant make the simple connection that it is pragmatic, like when driving assuming the other guy will fuck up. You are not banning other drivers, but simply being aware that others drive badly(infect bad logic based on religion into politics) so you keep your eyes on the road and keep your distence and insist they don't have a monopoly on making laws based on their religion.

On top of lecturing me as to what I haven't read presumed to know someone else better than I did. Thank you "teach".

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote:Sure you do

Brian37 wrote:
Sure you do think I want a utopia



no, sorry, i am not the strawman you want me to be.


Brian37 wrote:

otherwise you wouldn't have such a childish kneejerk reaction as to why I call religion poison.



and my taking exception to your terminology necessarily means i think you "want a utopia"...how??? do you have the foggiest idea what logic is? a "kneejerk" reaction is an irrationally strong reaction, and, as you damn well know (but will never admit because you're a liar), i didn't come at you cussing and yelling from out of nowhere. i started arguing with you about your terminology in a calm, discursive way. i only became belligerent when you continuously strawmanned me (like you're doing here), ignored any points you couldn't dismiss to your satisfaction (like you'll ignore this post, more than likely), and wouldn't concede any points even when they were carried against you beyond a shadow of a doubt (like your strawmanning of marx, which you have yet to ever admit to).


as i have explained to you countless times, i take exception to your use of the term "poison" because it's symptomatic of wooly thinking, NOT because i believe you think all religions should be forcibly banned (NO ONE HERE thinks that of you, and you know that, but you're a liar), nor because i think you want to create a "utopia" (you know that damn well, too, but it's easier for you to argue against points nobody ever made). my "kneejerk reaction," however, is to your lack of intellectual integrity (which i'm convinced is just lack of an intellect on your part).


why do you keep coming back for the same intellectual asskicking?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:
Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself.




yeah, i'm waiting for them to start, too, because i've never seen any. not on this site, anyhow.


Also waiting for these alleged detractors that only Brian has encountered.

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Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote: Now here are

Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself. 

Also stupidly ignoring that by seeing that atheists disagree debunks the myth that we all are evil Stalin loving communists is good. 

I'd be surprised if you could even come up with a coherent image of what your utopia would look like. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself. 

Also stupidly ignoring that by seeing that atheists disagree debunks the myth that we all are evil Stalin loving communists is good. 

I'd be surprised if you could even come up with a coherent image of what your utopia would look like. 




probably a place where we all realize that EVOLUTION is responsible for EVERYTHING...and then somehow keep from shrugging our shoulders at the utter uselessness of that realization...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 Now here are where my detractors stupidly accuse me of wanting a utopia myself. 

Also stupidly ignoring that by seeing that atheists disagree debunks the myth that we all are evil Stalin loving communists is good. 

I'd be surprised if you could even come up with a coherent image of what your utopia would look like. 

No no no, there is no such thing as a utopia. If anyone suffers from that mindset you do. Blame everyone else and stupidly think you did everything by yourself. I have no disire to set up a utopia because there is no such thing.

Repeating failed economic policies by making them worse under a sysetem run by Corportate America by giving them more free reign is just more gass on the fire.

I constantly offer you a way to fix it and until you understand the difference between "can't" and "don't want to" you will never understand. But less government and "fuck you I got mine" has not worked. 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:
I constantly offer you a way to fix it and until you understand the difference between "can't" and "don't want to" you will never understand.



oh please, you have never once offered any sort of concrete, constructive solution to any of the problems you endlessly harp on about. all we ever hear is that there's a huge pay gap, corporations are ripping off workers, there's no utopia, evolution is behind everything, it's all about climate, guns are being sold like candy, and everyone is missing your point about everything. not once have i read a single concrete, specific idea on how to make the world a better place.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:No no no,

Brian37 wrote:

No no no, there is no such thing as a utopia.

Obviously. The term "utopia" literally means "no-place", it is pronounced like the English word "eutopia" which means "good place", a double meaning that More was no doubt well aware of when choosing the names to use in his book. The point of coming up with a utopia, isn't to actually implement it. The book has satirical overtones.

Like concepts such as perfect geometric shapes, infinity etc. exist in mathematics but probably don't exist anywhere in reality, developing a concept of the ideal is often useful when structuring a society. In many ways, the writings of Thomas Jefferson were utopian, even though he knew the society he was helping create would be imperfect and wouldn't last. Refusing to consider what the ideal would be, just because it will never exist, is stupid.

 

liar wrote:

If anyone suffers from that mindset you do. Blame everyone else and stupidly think you did everything by yourself.

Where have I blamed anyone for anything? Obviously, I don't do everything myself. I have explained my business model in more detail to you on these forums than I ever have anywhere else. My business model relies on me doing the minimum amount possible. I try my damndest not to do anything I don't have to do.

 

reading comprehension challenged wrote:

I have no disire to set up a utopia because there is no such thing.

I never said you did. I said, "I'd be surprised if you could even come up with a coherent image of what your utopia would look like."

 

economically challenged wrote:

Repeating failed economic policies by making them worse under a sysetem run by Corportate America by giving them more free reign is just more gass on the fire.

Yet you keep voting for the same people who implemented the policies you claim failed. I haven't voted for any of the economic policies currently pursued by our government. I spend most of my internet time arguing AGAINST those policies. Can you explain to me the substantial difference between the economic policies of Obama compared to the economic policies of GW?

 

hallucinating wrote:

I constantly offer you a way to fix it and until you understand the difference between "can't" and "don't want to" you will never understand. But less government and "fuck you I got mine" has not worked. 

I remember one time that you have ever offered specifics, and that was during the gun debate after I hounded you across a dozen threads and you finally made a list of specific laws we should implement. As it turns out, all the laws you suggested were already in existence. The quickest way to make you run from a thread is to as you for specifics. As soon as I ask for them, you run away and never return. For example, the recent thread on meat, you still haven't told me who is "ripping you off" when you purchase pork at full price. Is it the farmer? The butcher? the delivery guy? The grocer? You never answer my direct questions.

I understand that sometimes you might forget, and the thread gets buried under new ones, but that thread has been the most active recently because it stemmed into an interesting conversation between me and Vastet and another between me and Digital- and you have studiously ignored it, despite it constantly being on top to remind you. 

You have no specifics. Link me to ONE thread where you have proposed or openly supported a specific policy or law as a solution to any problem.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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*falls over*

*falls over*

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Beyond Saving
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 Man, if I could invent a

 Man, if I could invent a mosquito repellent as efficient as asking direct questions works as a brian repellent I would be a billionaire. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X