The only thing that stops a bad guy with a .........ooops.

Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
The only thing that stops a bad guy with a .........ooops.

What happens in Vegas unfortunately happens every day. And obviously more guns stopped this, yes eventually but not until 5 people were already dead. Don't you just love our Dirty Harry society?

Oh and if any idiot doesn't think marketing works the sicko couple was anti cop and were shouting "REVOLUTION", I am sure the were liberals who voted for Obama and never watched Fox News.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-las-vegas-cops-killed-in-ambush-20140608-story.html

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 ...and Las Vegas is the

 ...and Las Vegas is the only area in the state where it is illegal to even drive through town with a gun. Why didn't the murderers obey the gun laws? Don't they know how important they are?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote: And obviously

Brian37 wrote:
And obviously more guns stopped this, yes eventually but not until 5 people were already dead. 

And how many would be dead if none of the good guys had guns?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
...a dad with good aim

 Another couple used their guns to kill someone recently:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/husband-and-wife-shoot-gunmen-who-try-to-enter-their/article_29109617-bc56-534...

Husband and wife shoot gunmen who try to enter their St. Louis home, killing 1, police say

A husband and wife armed with guns were able to stave off an apparent home invasion Monday night, police said.  

...

Police say a 17-year-old girl who lived at the home was outside retrieving something from her car when she was approached by two masked and armed men who forced her into her house, using her as a shield.

The teen’s father, 34, saw the men walking up with his daughter, got his firearm and fired several shots at them, striking both of the men as they entered his home. The teen’s mother, 34, also retrieved a gun and fired once at the men but did not hit either, police said.

One of the men, Terrell Johnson, 31, of the 4500 block of Natural Bridge Road, collapsed on the living room floor and was pronounced dead at the scene.

 ...


In such a situation, there's of course the risk the human shield might have been shot instead (Mom fired and missed), but I think it's worth the risk, rather than acquiesce and hope the intruders play nice (if they only wanted to rob, they'd likelier wait until they thought the house was empty).

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond, you are not going to

Beyond, you are not going to get away with legal vs illegal crap. VOLUME is the issue. The manufactures do not care how many they make and pump out and sell like Skittles. Guns are not candy and should not be made at the volume of candy nor should they be as easy to buy as candy.

This is a symptom of the same Corporate bullying to put profits over people. This has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with an irresponsible industry that doesn't give a shit about public safety. The NRA is not the safety organization it started out as. It is nothing more than a lobby group out to protect the profits of manufactures.

Your stupid selfish mentality is the same on all issues, you care more about you and your own selfish desires than you do about the society you live in.

 

There is absolutely no point in having ellections at all or have the concept of peaceful transfer of power if all we do is what you want and only what you want. It is not tyranny to have ellections. It is not tyranny when you lose an ellection. Our pay gap and increasing poverty is why we see more paranoia from the religious right and Tea Partiers. It is also why since Obama's election we have seen a rise in hate groups and Militias.

 

It takes no brains to problem solve with weapons. It shows no maturity to be selfish.

I am tired of Corporate greed. I am tired of our society being treated like it is a John Wayne movie.

 

You can use your free speech and vote all you want. But when you lose don't bitch, that is what a free and civil society should do.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Beyond, you

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond, you are not going to get away with legal vs illegal crap. VOLUME is the issue. The manufactures do not care how many they make and pump out and sell like Skittles. Guns are not candy and should not be made at the volume of candy nor should they be as easy to buy as candy.

I already trounced that argument. Let us pretend that volume is the problem, how do you propose to solve it?

 

 

Quote:

This is a symptom of the same Corporate bullying to put profits over people. This has nothing to do with rights and everything to do with an irresponsible industry that doesn't give a shit about public safety. The NRA is not the safety organization it started out as. It is nothing more than a lobby group out to protect the profits of manufactures.

Ridiculous. When was the last time you saw a gun advertisement on primetime tv? The gun market doesn't advertise much, demand is consumer driven. Many guns are not even built until they are ordered.

 

Quote:

Your stupid selfish mentality is the same on all issues, you care more about you and your own selfish desires than you do about the society you live in.

 

True, yet despite this I have contributed far more to society than you have. How many people have you ever employed? How much have you ever paid in taxes to support society? What have you ever built for anyone? Can you name a single thing you have done for society?

 

Quote:

There is absolutely no point in having ellections at all or have the concept of peaceful transfer of power if all we do is what you want and only what you want. It is not tyranny to have ellections. It is not tyranny when you lose an ellection. Our pay gap and increasing poverty is why we see more paranoia from the religious right and Tea Partiers. It is also why since Obama's election we have seen a rise in hate groups and Militias.

On this issue my side has won the elections. You are the one whining about the laws not being what you want. Do elections only matter when you win? 

 

 

 

Quote:

It takes no brains to problem solve with weapons. It shows no maturity to be selfish.

You using the word maturity? At least 90% of the people reading this laughed at that line. I will ask again, what is your solution? Since it takes no brains, you  should be able to propose one. You don't even have the maturity to hold a thoughful conversation or even state your own opinion clearly. That I haven't given up on you is pretty strong evidence of my benevolent heart... or my stupidity.

 

 

Quote:

 

You can use your free speech and vote all you want. But when you lose don't bitch, that is what a free and civil society should do.

I haven't bitched about anything. The current laws are not my ideal, but they are acceptable enough. And in this issue, the laws have swung a bit my way the last couple decades.(and incidentally, violent crime is approaching all time lows)

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


iwbiek
atheistSuperfan
iwbiek's picture
Posts: 4196
Joined: 2008-03-23
User is offlineOffline
last time i went and bought

last time i went and bought a fucking milky way i didn't have to wait 5 days. christ, i didn't even have to show i.d. are they regulating candy so heavily now? and why are they cutting down production?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 I will move my response to

 I will move my response to your post in your poetry thread to here, I am traveling and only have my tablet which is a pain in the ass to cut and paste with so will just summarize your quotes. You said ZERO!

Sure, zero murders would be great, but humans "EVOLVED" with the capability to murder. They murdered before guns, and will murder forever no matter what law you pass. Ironic that you accuse me of being "like a theist" and then suggest that a result so contrary to human nature as zero murders is an achievable goal.

You also fail to show how more guns equals more murders. Yes, the US leads the developed world in murders not just with guns, but also knives blunt objects and fists, however, the majority of those are centered in a handful of areas with really high rates (chicago, la, louisiana, texas). The murder rate in most of the country is comparable with the most peaceful areas of Europe. Even areas like mine with a high proportion of gun ownership and high proportion of gun nuts have very low violent crime rates, the last murder in my county was ten years ago and is still big news. Violent crime is a problem in the US, but it is an isolated problem. We fucking know who is murdering and we fucking know why and we fucking know where and we fucking know who the victims are. It isn't a big ass secret that virtually all murders where a stranger kills another stranger is the result of the drug trade, and is in one of a handful of cities. If you avoid buying or selling illegal drugs, the odds of you being murdered are as low as anywhere in Europe. If you avoid getting married and having kids as well, the odds of you getting murdered are virtually nil. Instead of focusing on solving the real issue, the drug trade, you focus on their current tool of choice, guns.

As if strict gun laws have prevented the tens of thousands of people being murdered in Mexico. Have you ever been in Mexico when the Sinaloa come through town randomly shooting people and taking whatever the fuck they want? Have you had one of your friends kidnapped and held for ransom because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? You would probably piss your pants and shit yourself and wish for someone like me with a gun to come save your sorry ass if you could take a breath between calling for your mommy. 

Yet you sit on your sanctomonius toilet like it is a fucking throne and cast derision at guys like CJ Grisham, a guy who went overseas and risked his fucking ass getting shot at in the name of shitheads like you. You have the fucking audacity to label him coward and racist, simply because he decided to carry his gun in public-breaking absolutely no law- and got arrested anyway, at which point he started "Open Carry Texas" to bring attention to the issue.

You wouldn't have the balls to serve our country half as much as he did. You do absolutely nothing to improve your life yet live comfortable as hell. You have no idea what real poverty is and our soldiers come back from war and have to listen to babies like you whine about their American problems. If I had a dime for every time a brother in the VFW cursed out whiners like you, I'd be as rich as your butt buddy Warren. Get some damn perspective. And you call me selfish? hah. At least when I seek things for myself I am honest about my goals instead of pretending I am interested in some 'greater good'.

And yeah, you want to 'challenge' me to say this to whoever the fuck had a loved one get shot? I'll say the same damn thing, and have. Bad people exist and they will use any tools at their disposal to do bad things. Humans are not perfect, and the price of living among them is that they will use violence to control you. You are no different except you don't have the courage to use violence yourself. Instead, you seek to have the police use violence to stop any little thing you don't like or force people to do what they want. If you want to know why there is so much violence and selfishness in society, look in a fucking mirror.

 

While you are at it, go learn something about Somalia. Do you think they are better now with a government than they were as an anarchy? The only problem with anarchy is that assholes like you think you know better than everyone and are willing to use violence to impose your governance on everyone else. (Or more accurately in your case, support the people who use violence to seize power so you can pretend your hands are clean.) The only reason anarchy inevitably descends into violence is because ass holes want to establish a government. Unfortunately for Somalia, they didn't have any guns to shoot the authoritarian pricks with so they ended up with two groups of authoritarian assholes fighting for the ability to rule everyone else. Here is a number for you, ZERO, as in zero fucking assholes who think violence is an acceptable tool to use to impose their ideas onto someone else.

/rant

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Mexico is ONE country,

Mexico is ONE country, Canada and Austrialia and Europe and Japan, which none of are fascist states, have far less gun death than we do.

Authoritarian? No if anyone is advocating that it is you, and quite unwittingly unfortunately. You stupidly do not understand that less regulation at this point in history will favor the 1% and throw more gass on the fire and increase the Oligarchy. That is how you get sweat shop countries and third world countries like Somalia.

You are the crybaby. You cry tryanny when you lose an ellection. I think you suffer from what most men have in our speices history, testosterone and ego. Same thing that causes god belief, the child crying when they don't always get what they want.

You pull the same Ayn Rand bullshit on the issue of guns as you do economics. "Fuck you I got mine".

Let me make this clear, the act of going into a voting booth to settle a dissagreement is how civil society handles it. I don't have a gun and never will own one. Now if you want to pick one up against me because I want to try things differently, who is the bully at that point? Because you will end up having to murder an unarmed person. Your Dirty Harry mentality does not impress me and you are not a patriot for having a gun fetish.

All I am hearing from you is "Do it my way or it is tyranny". Sorry. In a free society YOU dont decide for everyone 100% of the time what WE do as a nation. Sometime you win and sometimes you lose. You simply are suffering from fear of the unknown, much like Islam fears Enlightenment.

No one wants to hang you from a tree or have you arrested simply by saying the status quo is unacceptable. But it is unaccepable. So either work with society or get the fuck out of the way. But it is not your choice to decide for the rest of us all the time.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Mexico is ONE

Brian37 wrote:

Mexico is ONE country, Canada and Austrialia and Europe and Japan, which none of are fascist states, have far less gun death than we do.

Authoritarian? No if anyone is advocating that it is you, and quite unwittingly unfortunately. You stupidly do not understand that less regulation at this point in history will favor the 1% and throw more gass on the fire and increase the Oligarchy. That is how you get sweat shop countries and third world countries like Somalia.

You are the crybaby. You cry tryanny when you lose an ellection. I think you suffer from what most men have in our speices history, testosterone and ego. Same thing that causes god belief, the child crying when they don't always get what they want.

You pull the same Ayn Rand bullshit on the issue of guns as you do economics. "Fuck you I got mine".

Let me make this clear, the act of going into a voting booth to settle a dissagreement is how civil society handles it. I don't have a gun and never will own one. Now if you want to pick one up against me because I want to try things differently, who is the bully at that point? Because you will end up having to murder an unarmed person. Your Dirty Harry mentality does not impress me and you are not a patriot for having a gun fetish.

All I am hearing from you is "Do it my way or it is tyranny". Sorry. In a free society YOU dont decide for everyone 100% of the time what WE do as a nation. Sometime you win and sometimes you lose. You simply are suffering from fear of the unknown, much like Islam fears Enlightenment.

No one wants to hang you from a tree or have you arrested simply by saying the status quo is unacceptable. But it is unaccepable. So either work with society or get the fuck out of the way. But it is not your choice to decide for the rest of us all the time.

 

 

 

Where have I ever suggested forcing you to do anything? You don't have to do it my way. In fact, I prefer you don't buy a gun. I just want to be able to purchase guns for myself. Don't worry, bullets are expensive and you are nowhere near worth the price. I have shot absolutely every person I want to shoot. The only creatures in danger from me are tasty animals. So which guns do you want to ban, or which people do you want to prevent from having them? Do you even have a position beyond hyperbole and hysteria?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 4101
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
      Brian the answer

 

    Brian the answer to every question regarding the ills of society is always more guns.    For instance, if someone cuts you off in traffic wouldn't it feel good to just let loose with a hail of bullets and turn their vehicle into Swiss Cheese ?  Or when you got fired from your last job,  imagine returning a little later with the weapon of your choice and just lighting the place up, man what could be more  awesome !!!

  Also, I've found that with every new gun that I have purchased my once shockingly small penis has grown at least an additional inch every time !    I've bought a lot of guns lately Brian and now I can barely zip up my pants.   Guns are the best thing that's ever happened to me.

witty expression goes here.


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Beyond, you

Brian37 wrote:
Beyond, you are not going to get away with legal vs illegal crap. VOLUME is the issue. The manufactures do not care how many they make and pump out and sell like Skittles. Guns are not candy and should not be made at the volume of candy nor should they be as easy to buy as candy.
How many deaths per year can be traced to candy consumption (diabetes, dental abscesses, etc.)?

Quote:
It takes no brains to problem solve with weapons. It shows no maturity to be selfish.
Can you imagine a situation where you would rather have a gun than not? 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

    Brian the answer to every question regarding the ills of society is always more guns.    For instance, if someone cuts you off in traffic wouldn't it feel good to just let loose with a hail of bullets and turn their vehicle into Swiss Cheese ?  Or when you got fired from your last job,  imagine returning a little later with the weapon of your choice and just lighting the place up, man what could be more  awesome !!!

  Also, I've found that with every new gun that I have purchased my once shockingly small penis has grown at least an additional inch every time !    I've bought a lot of guns lately Brian and now I can barely zip up my pants.   Guns are the best thing that's ever happened to me.

He he, shit, someone cuts me off in traffic I want an RPG.

 

The gun nutters really do not understand that it isn't about them or their rights.

This is all about the gun makers not giving a fuck how many they make and think they can simply pump them out like candy. Nor do they care where they end up. I am not blaming the gun owners at all, I am blaming the makers for the flooded market. And they love playing of the fear of gun owners to keep and expand their flooded market.

Poor little crybabies cry doomsday because someone points out a real problem and wants something done about it other than "Lets do nothing".

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:This is all

Brian37 wrote:

This is all about the gun makers not giving a fuck how many they make and think they can simply pump them out like candy. Nor do they care where they end up. I am not blaming the gun owners at all, I am blaming the makers for the flooded market. And they love playing of the fear of gun owners to keep and expand their flooded market.

If the market is "flooded", why the fuck do you have to order your gun months in advance because they are backordered? In 2012, Ruger actually stopped accepting orders.... the gunmaker REFUSED to take more orders and sell more guns because they were struggling to manufacture the one million guns that were ordered. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Poor little crybabies cry doomsday because someone points out a real problem and wants something done about it other than "Lets do nothing".

 

You have yet to suggest a single solution. All you have done is harp about a "problem" in the vaguest sense. You haven't even specified exactly what the problem is except for hyperbole and lies (eg "guns are pumped out like candy&quotEye-wink

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Lets review the gun nutter's

Lets review the gun nutter's playbook.

1. You want to take all guns away........

2. Other bad shit happens so lets do nothing about gun death.

3. It is tyranny if you want to try something new to reduce gun death.

4. It is not tyranny when I get what I want.

5. Anyone who wants to change anything is a fascist.

6. Most importantly, ignore that I am a pawn being sold fear.

 

Yawn. Just the same selfish narcissism and paranoia I get from theists when voice my own dissent.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

This is all about the gun makers not giving a fuck how many they make and think they can simply pump them out like candy. Nor do they care where they end up. I am not blaming the gun owners at all, I am blaming the makers for the flooded market. And they love playing of the fear of gun owners to keep and expand their flooded market.

If the market is "flooded", why the fuck do you have to order your gun months in advance because they are backordered? In 2012, Ruger actually stopped accepting orders.... the gunmaker REFUSED to take more orders and sell more guns because they were struggling to manufacture the one million guns that were ordered. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Poor little crybabies cry doomsday because someone points out a real problem and wants something done about it other than "Lets do nothing".

 

You have yet to suggest a single solution. All you have done is harp about a "problem" in the vaguest sense. You haven't even specified exactly what the problem is except for hyperbole and lies (eg "guns are pumped out like candy&quotEye-wink

 

I do have  solution dipshit. Several in fact.

1. Take the power away from the gun manufactures ability to write their own laws overiding public opinion. Corporate lobbying like any other business.

2. Reduce the ammont made. Nowhere does that say end all gun making.

3. Ban military style riffles and big clips.

4. No internet sales, of either guns or ammo. Nor does that say ban it everywhere.

5. Universal background checks. Including gun shows.

6. Mental evaluations manditory, with training and reviewed just like a drivers license .

7. Higher wages for the middle class and working poor. More economic stability, less crime.

8. Higher taxes on the rich and more investment at home, close tax loopholes.

9. Invesment in mental health care.

10. Invesment in education.

 

Nowhere in any of that list does it say, "I want government to take away all guns and no one can have any at all".

There crybaby. Now, you can offer some up yourself too, but more of the same won't cut it.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
And obviously more guns stopped this, yes eventually but not until 5 people were already dead. 

And how many would be dead if none of the good guys had guns?

Nice try dipshit, did you forget the guy who stopped a gunman with pepper spray? Did you also forget that the shooter in the Gabbi Gifford's shooting was stopped without guns?

Just tell the truth, you love guns and and you don't want to change anything because you love guns.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 4101
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote: .....you love

Brian37 wrote:
.....you love guns and and you don't want to change anything because you love guns.

 

 

 

                              Yes, Brian I love guns, I love them more than anything in the whole wide world.

                            

witty expression goes here.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

This is all about the gun makers not giving a fuck how many they make and think they can simply pump them out like candy. Nor do they care where they end up. I am not blaming the gun owners at all, I am blaming the makers for the flooded market. And they love playing of the fear of gun owners to keep and expand their flooded market.

If the market is "flooded", why the fuck do you have to order your gun months in advance because they are backordered? In 2012, Ruger actually stopped accepting orders.... the gunmaker REFUSED to take more orders and sell more guns because they were struggling to manufacture the one million guns that were ordered. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Poor little crybabies cry doomsday because someone points out a real problem and wants something done about it other than "Lets do nothing".

 

You have yet to suggest a single solution. All you have done is harp about a "problem" in the vaguest sense. You haven't even specified exactly what the problem is except for hyperbole and lies (eg "guns are pumped out like candy&quotEye-wink

 

I do have  solution dipshit. Several in fact.

1. Take the power away from the gun manufactures ability to write their own laws overiding public opinion. Corporate lobbying like any other business.

2. Reduce the ammont made. Nowhere does that say end all gun making.

3. Ban military style riffles and big clips.

4. No internet sales, of either guns or ammo. Nor does that say ban it everywhere.

5. Universal background checks. Including gun shows.

6. Mental evaluations manditory, with training and reviewed just like a drivers license .

7. Higher wages for the middle class and working poor. More economic stability, less crime.

8. Higher taxes on the rich and more investment at home, close tax loopholes.

9. Invesment in mental health care.

10. Invesment in education.

 

Nowhere in any of that list does it say, "I want government to take away all guns and no one can have any at all".

There crybaby. Now, you can offer some up yourself too, but more of the same won't cut it.

1. Why should only lobbyists on your side get to lobby?

2. HOW? Institute a quota? If you want to reduce the number of guns made, you have to have some sort of mechanism to do so. You can't just pass a law saying "fewer guns will be made". Who do you stop from making guns? 

3. Why? Military style rifles are the LEAST used guns in crime. Every other kind of gun is used more. If your goal is to reduce crime, why focus on the most insignificant contributor? Just because they look scary to you?

4. You can't buy guns on the internet. You can order them, but you are already required by law to have it shipped to a licensed gun dealer. That law is already in effect and has been for years. 

5. Already in effect in 17 states. Anyway, less than 1% of guns used in crime were purchased at gun shows. Usually, guns at gun shows go for more money than your typical criminal cares to pay.

6. You got a mental evaluation to get a drivers license? Better have another one. 

7-10 Irrelevant, I asked about gun laws. We already know you support an economic system that dooms people to poverty and makes it harder for people to start businesses without political connections and lots of money.

So the only gun law you support are those already in place and a ban on "military style" guns and some vague method of reducing the number of guns made. How would any of those laws have prevented even a single one of the shootings you have harped about over the last decade? 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4856
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
 What is the answer then?

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 4101
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
    Oh Brian, I also like

 

 

  Oh Brian, I also like to sit around watching "Faux" News while mindlessly fondling my guns.   I'm storing up rations and bottled water for when the  black helicopters start flying over my house.... oh, and I don't trust Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, Lesbians, people that drive foreign cars and that use the phrase "mean-spirited"  

   I'm currently reading the Turner Diaries for the 27'th time.

 

     ( and I look really macho when I wear camo )

witty expression goes here.


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 4101
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
        I also like

 

 

      I also like to imagine myself lying naked on a huge pile of ammuntion while having a sloppy orgy with Ann Coulter, Nancy Reagan and Phyllis Shlafly.

witty expression goes here.


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13017
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
I hate stepping into this

I hate stepping into this shit again, but I will not have my nation compared to the US willy nilly.

Canada is so amazingly different that you cannot logically compare gun violence here with gun violence there. It is only the tip of the iceberg that our gun laws are different. More importantly, our entire justice system is different. We've never had a 3 strikes rule. We've not put a minimum of a third of the population in prison. Our drug laws are more lax, our police less likely to fire a weapon and get away with it. We don't elect sheriffs or prosecutors.
We also have a lot more space with a tenth the population. We didn't have to fire a shot to gain independence from the British. We won every war we got involved in until the current administration fucked it up. Our culture is more diversified and exceptionally different from yours. We get more cold weather keeping people huddled indoors and less heat enflaming tempers. The differences between rich and poor aren't as great. And all this is STILL the tip of the iceberg.

The differences between Canada and the United States are so vast that attempting to draw correlations on gun violence based on any single statistic is mind bogglingly stupid. I wasn't always aware of that. I'm sure a few years ago I made similarly stupid and uninformed statements that attempted to draw parallels between the two countries. I wouldn't doubt you could find some looking through my posting history here. I've learned a lot since then.

I still think guns are cowards weapons, and I still think they should be regulated as potential weapons of mass destruction. But guns are not the only problem that results in such common incidents of shootings and mass shootings.
Fortunately I can say that I never advocated for banning them, so I wasn't a complete idiot.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


zarathustra
atheist
zarathustra's picture
Posts: 1521
Joined: 2006-11-16
User is offlineOffline
If Michael Moore is to be

If Michael Moore is to be trusted (which he isn't), Canada is so violence-free that the people keep their doors unlocked, and wait in the foyer to greet any strangers who come in. 

There are no theists on operating tables.

πππ†
π†††


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13017
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Yeah, Moore is just as bad

Yeah, Moore is just as bad as O'Reilly. Yes, tonnes of Canadians don't lock their doors. But then tonnes of Americans don't lock their doors either. If you live in a low crime town or area and have little or no first hand experience with crime, you don't tend to feel precautions against crime are particularly important. Especially when they can be inconvenient or costly.

I doubt any studies have been done on the subject, but I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of Canadians who lock their doors is not significantly different from the percentage of Americans who lock their doors, especially if you can account for the factors. I'd bet big bucks on it being far more tied to actual crime in the area, and tied more to population density than location. People in small towns will be more likely to leave their doors unlocked while people in cities will be more likely to lock their doors. People who hear about break-ins from their neighbours will be more inclined to lock their doors than people who don't. People who have been broken in to will be more likely to lock their doors. etc.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Vastet wrote:I hate stepping

Vastet wrote:
I hate stepping into this shit again, but I will not have my nation compared to the US willy nilly. Canada is so amazingly different that you cannot logically compare gun violence here with gun violence there. It is only the tip of the iceberg that our gun laws are different. More importantly, our entire justice system is different. We've never had a 3 strikes rule. We've not put a minimum of a third of the population in prison. Our drug laws are more lax, our police less likely to fire a weapon and get away with it. We don't elect sheriffs or prosecutors. We also have a lot more space with a tenth the population. We didn't have to fire a shot to gain independence from the British. We won every war we got involved in until the current administration fucked it up. Our culture is more diversified and exceptionally different from yours. We get more cold weather keeping people huddled indoors and less heat enflaming tempers. The differences between rich and poor aren't as great. And all this is STILL the tip of the iceberg. The differences between Canada and the United States are so vast that attempting to draw correlations on gun violence based on any single statistic is mind bogglingly stupid. I wasn't always aware of that. I'm sure a few years ago I made similarly stupid and uninformed statements that attempted to draw parallels between the two countries. I wouldn't doubt you could find some looking through my posting history here. I've learned a lot since then. I still think guns are cowards weapons, and I still think they should be regulated as potential weapons of mass destruction. But guns are not the only problem that results in such common incidents of shootings and mass shootings. Fortunately I can say that I never advocated for banning them, so I wasn't a complete idiot.

 

Well said, and the same can be said about any inter-country comparrisons. It is not a secret that violence in the US is predominantly drug related and is centralized in a handful of areas. We have places where the murder rate is well into the double digits and other places where it is just as low as any country on the planet. In the rural US, few people lock their doors and it isn't uncommon for people to leave their keys in their truck when running into the store. When you know everyone in town, crime isn't a  big threat.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4856
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
 What is the answer then?

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
digitalbeachbum wrote: What

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?

It is simple, just do what our friend Beyond Antoinette wants becasue he knows what is best for all of us.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish wrote:   

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

 

 

  Oh Brian, I also like to sit around watching "Faux" News while mindlessly fondling my guns.   I'm storing up rations and bottled water for when the  black helicopters start flying over my house.... oh, and I don't trust Jews, Hispanics, Blacks, Lesbians, people that drive foreign cars and that use the phrase "mean-spirited"  

   I'm currently reading the Turner Diaries for the 27'th time.

 

     ( and I look really macho when I wear camo )

What, no survival bunker?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ProzacDeathWish
atheist
ProzacDeathWish's picture
Posts: 4101
Joined: 2007-12-02
User is offlineOffline
           I live in

           I live in an abandoned missle silo.   No neighbors to annoy me.

witty expression goes here.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?

It is simple, just do what our friend Beyond Antoinette wants becasue he knows what is best for all of us.

Yep, thats me. I believe in using police and military to force everyone to live exactly like me. As I've said a thousand times, everyone has to do exactly what I do and individuals are too incompetent to make decisions for themselves. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5402
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
digitalbeachbum wrote: What

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?

The first and largest step would be to end our "war on drugs". There is a direct and immediate correlation to aggressive enforcement of drug laws and violence. There is a direct and immediate correlation to us having the most people jailed for non-violent crimes and having the highest rate of violent crimes among modernized countries. If it was up to me, I'd say full legalization of everything. Obviously, that isn't going to happen. At the very least, we can stop jailing people just because they have drug addictions. Our prisons create criminals by destroying their lives and leaving them with no realistic options to get back into society. I think we could learn a lot looking at the legal and prison systems of other countries that would be far more practical and relevant than worrying about gun laws, which are ultimately unenforcable because we already have a lot of guns and nothing but the most tyrannical action is going to change that. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Vastet
atheistBloggerHigh Level ModeratorSuperfan
Vastet's picture
Posts: 13017
Joined: 2006-12-25
User is offlineOffline
Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 What is the answer then? How do we reduce violence? Why do other countries take measures to reduce violence, like Australia or Sweden, which then reduces violent acts; however America never seems to get their head out of their ass?

The first and largest step would be to end our "war on drugs". There is a direct and immediate correlation to aggressive enforcement of drug laws and violence. There is a direct and immediate correlation to us having the most people jailed for non-violent crimes and having the highest rate of violent crimes among modernized countries. If it was up to me, I'd say full legalization of everything. Obviously, that isn't going to happen. At the very least, we can stop jailing people just because they have drug addictions. Our prisons create criminals by destroying their lives and leaving them with no realistic options to get back into society. I think we could learn a lot looking at the legal and prison systems of other countries that would be far more practical and relevant than worrying about gun laws, which are ultimately unenforcable because we already have a lot of guns and nothing but the most tyrannical action is going to change that. 

I agree.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


Brian37
atheistSuperfan
Brian37's picture
Posts: 15572
Joined: 2006-02-14
User is offlineOffline
ProzacDeathWish wrote:   

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

           I live in an abandoned missle silo.   No neighbors to annoy me.

You could really fuck with the doomsday nutturs living around there. Set off a siren and walk drive off your property in a cammie painted  Jeep with cammies on.  Better yet have the top of the silo rigged to raise out of the ground a fake missle head.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37