Islam and Slavery?

Dmasterman
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Islam and Slavery?

As we probably all know, Islam did in fact at some point have slavery.

Though in a recent argument with a Muslim and a supposed video refuting this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCLUUwBQOiw

 

Muslims hold the claim that they nor the qu'ran, Muhammad or Islam have ever endorsed/condoned slavery at all. They have admitted that there were Muslims who did own slaves, but these were a minority and were not true muslims or didn't truly follow the qu'ran.

I suppose it'd be like saying Christianity never endorsed slavery, just a few christians independentl practiced it.

 

Any thoughts on this? It was to my knowledge that Islam did in fact endorse it and Muhammad allowed it.


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the quran's view of slavery


the quran's view of slavery seems to be similar to the new testament's: slavery is a fact of life, but slaves have just as much worth before god as free men. slaves should be freed whenever possible and always treated well.

the sunnah seems to indicate that muhammad always freed his slaves whenever he came into possession of them. one of them he even married and another he adopted as a son.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Dmasterman
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I keep hearing this

I keep hearing this argument that if a slave requested freedom a Muslim will give it to him. Even though it doesn't make much sense.


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My opinion

                   Just an opinion. Mohammad fully intended to free all slaves who accepted Islam; that lasted for about 10 years or so. Has the empire expanded , a practical buisnessman that Mohammed was, simply let ecconomic reality take over. Muslims were heavily involved in the slave trade throughout Africa & Arabia well into the 20th century.   

 

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Islam has no modern moral

Islam has no modern moral value than any other myth. Savery in antiquity  in most cultures was quite common to variying degrees. Saying an alleged prophet freed his slaves does not make Allah anymore real than if a Christian used the bible to justify freeing slaves. Islam is simply Abraham 3.0.

BOTH are comic books having nothing to do with a deity condoning or condeming slavery.  The buyers of all holy books can look for excuses to claim moral justifications for anything.

What makes humans recoil at the concept of slavery is our own sense of compassion born out of evolution and no comic book will ever be sufficiant to explain our human behaviors good or bad.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Islam has no

Brian37 wrote:

Islam has no modern moral value than any other myth. Savery in antiquity  in most cultures was quite common to variying degrees. Saying an alleged prophet freed his slaves does not make Allah anymore real than if a Christian used the bible to justify freeing slaves. Islam is simply Abraham 3.0.

A lot of myths have a great deal of moral value. It was a significant amount of mythology that led to the abolition of slavery in America. The end of slavery was hardly a cold rational decision. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

What makes humans recoil at the concept of slavery is our own sense of compassion born out of evolution and no comic book will ever be sufficiant to explain our human behaviors good or bad.

Bullshit. Raise a human outside of modern society and they will not see anything at all wrong with it. What makes humans recoil at the concept of slavery is the mythology, cultural norms, traditions and preferences of modern society. There isn't some fucking gene that determines whether or not we are anti-slavery. And there sure as hell isn't a guarantee that humans won't embrace the concept of slavery again in the future. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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true. abolitionists used


true. abolitionists used religious language much more than slavery apologists, who pretty much only had a bullshit gloss on the curse of canaan to fall back on.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Islam has no modern moral value than any other myth. Savery in antiquity  in most cultures was quite common to variying degrees. Saying an alleged prophet freed his slaves does not make Allah anymore real than if a Christian used the bible to justify freeing slaves. Islam is simply Abraham 3.0.

A lot of myths have a great deal of moral value. It was a significant amount of mythology that led to the abolition of slavery in America. The end of slavery was hardly a cold rational decision. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

What makes humans recoil at the concept of slavery is our own sense of compassion born out of evolution and no comic book will ever be sufficiant to explain our human behaviors good or bad.

Bullshit. Raise a human outside of modern society and they will not see anything at all wrong with it. What makes humans recoil at the concept of slavery is the mythology, cultural norms, traditions and preferences of modern society. There isn't some fucking gene that determines whether or not we are anti-slavery. And there sure as hell isn't a guarantee that humans won't embrace the concept of slavery again in the future. 

Quote:
A lot of myths have a great deal of moral value. It was a significant amount of mythology that led to the abolition of slavery in America. The end of slavery was hardly a cold rational decision.

I can find morals in Harry Potter and Star Wars too but I wouldn't stupidly start a religion based on them. Religion also justified slavery and sexism and homophobia.

This is what you are not getting. Religion persists as a human division preciesely because we cannot see our behavior as evolutionary. Whatever good you claim can be found in a religion still does not make it the inventor or patent holder of any human behavior.

Hypatia of Alexandria wrote:
Fable should be taught as fable, myth as myth, and miracles as poetic fancies. To teach superstitions as truth is horrifying. The mind of a child accepts them and only through great pain, perhaps tragedy, can the child be relieved of them. Men will fight for superstition as quickly as for the living truth -- even more so, since a superstition is intangible, you can't get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, as so is changeable."

Murderd by holy men who didn't like her skepticism.

The fact that religion is NOT taught as a myth or fable and taught as fact from a political level to the point of human division negates any of the pretty stories it may tout.

You can find acts of kindness in the bible, for example, but misses the biger picture that the head character is a dictator, so the stories of kindness are not dipictions of selflessness but put in the book of myth to glorify the head character.

Social liberals rightfully admit that people outside their own religion are capable of compassion as well. If that is the case, which it is, then the cause of it is IN US, in our evolution, not in the placebo clubs humans falsely cling to, and not in the pretty stories they pepper their holy books with.

 

Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/hypatia.html#Am8MIqKvVmYxH5xV.99Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/hypatia.html#wBC5A6qMvfjpIxf2.99Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/hypatia.html#wBC5A6qMvfjpIxf2.99Fables should be taught as fables, myths as myths, and miracles as poetic fantasies. To teach superstitions as truths is a most terrible thing. The child mind accepts and believes them, and only through great pain and perhaps tragedy can he be in after years relieved of them.
Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/h/hypatia.html#wBC5A6qMvfjpIxf2.99

 

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Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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^ A fool spouts a bunch of

^ A fool spouts a bunch of unsupported lies and exaggerations. The rest of us shake our heads as he continues to damage his own cause.

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iwbiek
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Brian37 wrote:Hypatia of

Brian37 wrote:
Hypatia of Alexandria wrote:
Fable should be taught as fable, myth as myth, and miracles as poetic fancies. To teach superstitions as truth is horrifying. The mind of a child accepts them and only through great pain, perhaps tragedy, can the child be relieved of them. Men will fight for superstition as quickly as for the living truth -- even more so, since a superstition is intangible, you can't get at it to refute it, but truth is a point of view, as so is changeable."

Murderd by holy men who didn't like her skepticism.




ok, i've held my tongue on this long enough, by my classical studies degree won't let me stay quiet. if you're going to shoot down "myths and fables," do a little fact-checking yourself. that "quote" of hypatia is completely APOCRYPHAL. we pretty much have NONE of hypatia's own words anymore. HER WORKS HAVE NOT SURVIVED. that quote and most others floating around the net were totally MADE UP in the early 20th century by a guy named elbert hubbard. he also wrote fanciful descriptions of how hypatia looked.


and she wasn't murdered for her "skepticism." we have no idea if she was "skeptical" or not. she was murdered, as far as we can tell, for political reasons. high-placed christians thought she was influencing orestes, the prefect of alexandria, against cyril, the bishop of alexandria.


the way you exalt atheists and historical "skeptics"--some of them, we have seen, with dubious credentials--is no less mythmaking than what theists engage in. and if you got the hypatia story from one of the atheist writers you worship so much (which i'm guessing you did, because obviously you haven't done a lick of research on her yourself), you should ask yourself, "what other bullshit have they handed me?"


i mean, it doesn't even sound like anything that could have been written in antiquity, for fuck's sake.


(i'll start taking bets now on if he ignores this post and continues to throw the hypatia legend around anyway...)

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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i knew it. not even so much


i knew it. not even so much as a "whoops, my bad." i have yet to ever see that guy give an unqualified retraction of anything. who does that remind you of?

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


Vastet
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lol

lol

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