A historian explains why he changed his mind & now says Jesus did NOT exist

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A historian explains why he changed his mind & now says Jesus did NOT exist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwUZOZN-9dc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

He brings up some great points that can't be refuted unless there were eyewitnesses to Jesus but there were none!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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The evidence is suspect and

The evidence is suspect and hearsay after the alleged time. But I have always argued it still would not matter if he did exist. All it would mean is a mere man concocted and marketed a new cult that went on to become a religion. But none of the fantastic claims in the OT or NT are credible regardless.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:The evidence

Brian37 wrote:

The evidence is suspect and hearsay after the alleged time. But I have always argued it still would not matter if he did exist. All it would mean is a mere man concocted and marketed a new cult that went on to become a religion. But none of the fantastic claims in the OT or NT are credible regardless.

True but the strange thing is other gods and supernatural events are depicted in other scriptures yet crazy Christians automatically dismiss those without even realizing you can use the same logic to dismiss Jesus as well!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The evidence is suspect and hearsay after the alleged time. But I have always argued it still would not matter if he did exist. All it would mean is a mere man concocted and marketed a new cult that went on to become a religion. But none of the fantastic claims in the OT or NT are credible regardless.

True but the strange thing is other gods and supernatural events are depicted in other scriptures yet crazy Christians automatically dismiss those without even realizing you can use the same logic to dismiss Jesus as well!

 

All religions work by swallowing first and looking for excuses  to cling to them.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

The evidence is suspect and hearsay after the alleged time. But I have always argued it still would not matter if he did exist. All it would mean is a mere man concocted and marketed a new cult that went on to become a religion. But none of the fantastic claims in the OT or NT are credible regardless.

True but the strange thing is other gods and supernatural events are depicted in other scriptures yet crazy Christians automatically dismiss those without even realizing you can use the same logic to dismiss Jesus as well!

 

All religions work by swallowing first and looking for excuses  to cling to them.

I was surprised to hear 4000 to 7000 churches close a year in America so the messages isn't working. Christianity is dying off!

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:I

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I was surprised to hear 4000 to 7000 churches close a year in America so the messages isn't working. Christianity is dying off!

I'm not shocked at all. Churches go up in strip malls and in old gas stations all the time down here. They run for a short while because of the tax loop holes. The "men of god" get big Caddy's and fancy clothes then disappear in a poof of smoke.

 


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:
I was surprised to hear 4000 to 7000 churches close a year in America so the messages isn't working. Christianity is dying off!

I'm not shocked at all. Churches go up in strip malls and in old gas stations all the time down here. They run for a short while because of the tax loop holes. The "men of god" get big Caddy's and fancy clothes then disappear in a poof of smoke.

Yeah, I traveled to Columbus last week and my hotel room wasn't ready so I headed for a little dive bar I used to drink at next to an old poker club. I knew the poker club had shut down, but I was very dismayed when the bar had been converted to a church. To make things worse, the poker club had been taken over by Boy Scouts of America. Such a shame to see a nice neighborhood go downhill. The massage parlor was still open, but I was afraid there might be boy scouts in there.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Yeah, I

Beyond Saving wrote:

Yeah, I traveled to Columbus last week and my hotel room wasn't ready so I headed for a little dive bar I used to drink at next to an old poker club. I knew the poker club had shut down, but I was very dismayed when the bar had been converted to a church. To make things worse, the poker club had been taken over by Boy Scouts of America. Such a shame to see a nice neighborhood go downhill. The massage parlor was still open, but I was afraid there might be boy scouts in there.

 

fuckin' ohio...

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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I'm just starting the video,

I'm just starting the video, so I'll have some input on the talk maybe shortly. But I agree that it wouldn't matter anyhow. I see the monotheisms quite simply.

1. Judaism: Probably legend passed down orally that was eventually written down into stories of Israel's worst days, followed by their triumphant rise, crushing their enemies, seeing them driven before them, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

2. Islam: Mohammed probably existed. He could have claimed what he was said to claim. He could have even believed it all. But you're going to have to work hard to convince me that an Archangel Gabriel exists, and that he decided to visit just Mohammed (after not being around for a couple centuries) for one last clarification on god and his demands, etc. If someone offered me undeniable proof that Mohammed existed, and claimed what he is said to have claimed, they still haven't provided any evidence for the actual unbelievable part of the story: that it happened!

3. Mormonism: See above, except we have enough evidence to know that Joseph Smith existed, and claimed what he claimed. Nobody has been able to provide a shred of evidence for the hilariously named angel Moroni, or the golden scrolls. The three witnesses and the eight witnesses (2 distinct groups) were the only other people who claimed they had also seen the angel Moroni who showed them the plates (the former group) or were shown them and permitted to handle them by Joseph Smith (the latter group who didn't claim to see Moroni...which included Joseph's father BTW). It's far more likely to me that these people vouched for Joseph after his secretive behaviour regarding the artifacts had caused an uprising by people who began to exhibit doubt, causing Joseph Smith to cut a deal with witnesses to help him regain his hold on the members of the church. Due to the church's polygamous nature in those days, I wouldn't doubt that women and/or money (and some power too perhaps) were offered up in exchange for the lie. I find this infinitely more likely than there being an angel named Moroni, North American natives being cursed Jews, and that god had Joseph Smith translate scrolls in a curiously similar manner to how Joseph conned farmers for money telling them where they could find gold on their propreties (and while he was at it, said that his name was Elohim which, to the best of my knowledge, means "gods"...plural!).

 

So Christianity, I can see it one of three ways.

1. Jesus was a person in history, and his life and ministry were the start of the Christian movement, which continues on to this day. Paul was a major figure in continuing the ministry, but Jesus was the figure who galvanized the people, and caused them to believe in him as the true messiah spoken of in the old testament.

2. Jesus was a person in history who had a small following, and Paul ended up exaggerating the entire thing.

3. Jesus was not a person in history, and Paul made him up completely.

 

Either way, either Jesus made up god, Paul made up god claiming that a real person named Jesus was the son of god, or Paul made up the son of god entirely.

Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.


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One of the great theologians

One of the great theologians of the twentieth century, Rudolf Bultmann, famously said in 1935: “I do indeed think that we can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus.” He understood that the gospels were hardly straightforward biographical accounts but quasi-mythical tales that reflected views of Jesus put forward by various Christian communities. 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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How Bultmann defined myth
  • The real purpose of myth is not to present an objective picture of the world as it is, but to express man’s understanding of himself in the world . . . .
  • Myth is an expression of man’s conviction that the origin and purpose of the world in which he lives are to be sought not within but beyond it — and that this realm is perpetually dominated and menaced by those mysterious powers that are its source and limit.
  • Myth is also an expression of man’s awareness that he is not the lord of his own being. It expresses his sense of dependence not only within the visible world, but more especially on those forces which hold sway beyond the confines of the known.
  • Finally, myth expresses man’s belief that in this state of dependence he can be delivered from the forces within the visible world. (cited from Bultmann’s ‘New Testament and Mythology’ in H. W. Bartsch, ed. Kerygma and Myth: A Theological Debate, 1933)

taken from http://vridar.org/2012/09/02/why-historical-knowledge-of-jesus-is-impossible-is-this-not-the-carpenter-chapter-5/

Understanding how the ancients used myths is very difficult for the modern mind. Well, I find it difficult anyway.


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that's true. we tend to

that's true. we tend to forget that academic writing with all of its concerns with attributing sources, fact-checking, etc., is a very modern concept. the concept of "history" didn't even exist for most ancient peoples, regardless of herodotus and thucydides, and the concerns that modern academic methods of accountability are meant to address were not concerns with those people.


even such ideas as "literal truth" are modern philosophical categories. if you were to ask a 12th-century sadhu if he believed krishna literally drove a chariot for arjuna, had blue skin, and was god in the flesh, he would probably find the question almost incomprehensible. what's even worse, many modern minds not only don't understand this difference in thinking across the ages, but they refuse to understand, or else refuse to admit there's a difference.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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1.No one seemed to have

1.No one seemed to have noticed Jesus in his time. 

2.The Gospels were not written by eyewitnesses. Even gospel writers NEVER saw an earthly Jesus!
3.The gospels are entirely fictional, pure myths. 
4.What we now call “Christianity” existed long before Jesus’ time. It was derived from earlier “scripture” and more ancient myths. 
5.Paul, writing earlier than the gospels, clearly spoke of a “spiritual” Christ. He knew nothing of a real, live human Jesus. 
6.There is no agreement at all concerning this putative historical Jesus’ looks, lineage, biography, character, moral worthiness, or even his central message. 



 

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted wrote:1.No

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

1.No one seemed to have noticed Jesus in his time. 

2.The Gospels were not written by eyewitnesses. Even gospel writers NEVER saw an earthly Jesus!
3.The gospels are entirely fictional, pure myths. 
4.What we now call “Christianity” existed long before Jesus’ time. It was derived from earlier “scripture” and more ancient myths. 
5.Paul, writing earlier than the gospels, clearly spoke of a “spiritual” Christ. He knew nothing of a real, live human Jesus. 
6.There is no agreement at all concerning this putative historical Jesus’ looks, lineage, biography, character, moral worthiness, or even his central message. 

 

All religions are self fulfilling. This is why the Christan's stole the idea from the Jews and made it their own. They needed a prophecy and it was convenient to have their "hero" show up when he did.

I honestly think that of the 2 billion Christians and 2 billion Muslims, there are only about 200,000 actual believers for each religion. the rest of them are just dumb sheep following the crowd. When you actually get your head out of the ground and start looking at the actual stories these religions profess you just can't continue believing it. it's so blatantly ridiculous.