Will potheads pay the tax?

Beyond Saving
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Will potheads pay the tax?

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/10/legal-weed-will-cost-an-average-of-15-in-colorado-and-washington/

The tax measures on pot passed with a significant amount of support. The result will be that legal pot is going to be significantly more expensive than illegal pot. Estimates have legal pot selling for $400-$500 per ounce. For you non-smokers, for about 1/2 that price you can get a dealer to deliver your pot to your door- which if you are like me, getting it delivered is very important because if I'm smoking, I don't feel like getting dressed. So pot smokers will be faced with the dilemma of buying legal pot for almost twice what they pay now, or continuing to purchase the illegal pot. Which do you think they will do?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/10/legal-weed-will-cost-an-average-of-15-in-colorado-and-washington/

The tax measures on pot passed with a significant amount of support. The result will be that legal pot is going to be significantly more expensive than illegal pot. Estimates have legal pot selling for $400-$500 per ounce. For you non-smokers, for about 1/2 that price you can get a dealer to deliver your pot to your door- which if you are like me, getting it delivered is very important because if I'm smoking, I don't feel like getting dressed. So pot smokers will be faced with the dilemma of buying legal pot for almost twice what they pay now, or continuing to purchase the illegal pot. Which do you think they will do?

By your logic prohibition worked too.  Keep it up chicken little. Again, if price goes up, it will be for the same reason, legal or illegal, greed. Weed, like diamonds, are plentiful so there is no good reason for either to be expensive.

I don't give a rats ass what is being sold, I am sick of the corporate blackmail of "if you raise my taxes I will have to pass it on to the consumer". You found a bias pot smoker, so?

Exactly how does fining or jailing non violent users help? Exactly how does it help putting them in jail with violent people? Exactly how does this end gangs and cartels selling it by keeping it illegal?

I see no reason when one can go to a hardware store or garden shop, you can buy seeds and plants dirt cheap, why the cost of growing weed or selling seeds everywhere legally would drive prices up. By your logic, beer should cost 50 bucks for 12oz since alcohol is taxed and regulated.

I think the writer of this article doesn't want it completely legal because whatever he owns himself would be competed with.

You "gobment bad", yea when you don't get your way.

 

 

 

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Beyond Saving

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/10/legal-weed-will-cost-an-average-of-15-in-colorado-and-washington/

The tax measures on pot passed with a significant amount of support. The result will be that legal pot is going to be significantly more expensive than illegal pot. Estimates have legal pot selling for $400-$500 per ounce. For you non-smokers, for about 1/2 that price you can get a dealer to deliver your pot to your door- which if you are like me, getting it delivered is very important because if I'm smoking, I don't feel like getting dressed. So pot smokers will be faced with the dilemma of buying legal pot for almost twice what they pay now, or continuing to purchase the illegal pot. Which do you think they will do?

By your logic prohibition worked too.  Keep it up chicken little. Again, if price goes up, it will be for the same reason, legal or illegal, greed. Weed, like diamonds, are plentiful so there is no good reason for either to be expensive.

I don't give a rats ass what is being sold, I am sick of the corporate blackmail of "if you raise my taxes I will have to pass it on to the consumer". You found a bias pot smoker, so?

Exactly how does fining or jailing non violent users help? Exactly how does it help putting them in jail with violent people? Exactly how does this end gangs and cartels selling it by keeping it illegal?

I see no reason when one can go to a hardware store or garden shop, you can buy seeds and plants dirt cheap, why the cost of growing weed or selling seeds everywhere legally would drive prices up. By your logic, beer should cost 50 bucks for 12oz since alcohol is taxed and regulated.

I think the writer of this article doesn't want it completely legal because whatever he owns himself would be competed with.

You "gobment bad", yea when you don't get your way.

 

WTF I have argued many times for legalizing all drugs.

And no, you cannot go to the store and just buy some seeds, that is still illegal. If it was legal, yes the price of pot would fall quickly. But since it is heavily regulated, you have to buy permits, fill out paperwork etc. which all requires employees and money.

And yes dumb ass if beer was taxed as heavily as pot will be it would be more expensive. In Ohio the tax on a 12oz bottle is $0.0014/oz about 1.7 cents per beer. So a 12 pack about $0.20 is due to taxes. If the rate were 25% your beer would be more expensive. A 12 pack that costs $12 would be $15 instead. A company doesn't have any money to pay any tax until it gets it from a consumer- it can borrow or get it from investors, but both of them expect to get it back. Companies don't generate money magically like the Fed does. Where the fuck do you think your boss gets money to pay you? Some money laying goose he has hidden in the basement?

Look at cigs which have similar punitive taxes. There is a black market for untaxed cigarettes that is much cheaper. The largest difference is that marijuana already has a strong black market with developed distribution. Few smokers know where to get illegal cigarettes and might be hesitant to break the law. All pot smokers know exactly who to call for illegal pot and were willing to break the law. The big question is whether pot smokers will pay extra just to be legal, or will they stay with their current provider? 3 out of 3 I asked last night said they would keep their dude on speed dial. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Yep, growing stuff is cheep

Brian37 wrote:
I see no reason when one can go to a hardware store or garden shop, you can buy seeds and plants dirt cheap, why the cost of growing weed or selling seeds everywhere legally would drive prices up. By your logic, beer should cost 50 bucks for 12oz since alcohol is taxed and regulated.

Yep, growing stuff is cheep and easy.  That's why the tobacco industry went bankrupt years ago, and the government is no longer able to collect taxes on those nasty cigarettes.   Seriously, I think that if you learned a little more about the topic you would find that growing things isn't as easy and cheep as you think it is, and growing certain things requires permits and crap.  

Brian your hatred of wealth and those to posses it has blinded you to reality, and now you can only see things in terms of your narrow little bubble.    I know how how to make my own alcohol from sugar, water, yeast and some chemicals you can buy at a brewery shop.   It's much cheaper then anything I could buy at a store, but sometimes I buy beer.  Do you know why?  It's because I like bear and I think that it's worthwhile to buy it.  I don't think I'm being riped of by the evil corporations.  If I did I wouldn't be buying it, but if government raised to the tax on it enough I would stop buying it or maybe just drink less of it.  There is only so much money the government can squeeze out of me for alcohol, and if they ask for to much they might end up getting less instead of more.  That is the reality.  

People make their choices for a variety of reasons, but money is one of the biggest reason for a lot of thing.  So if government taxes too much people are going to change their behavior.   Now think about marijuana.  People have been growing it illegally for some time now.   They are all set up to grow it illegally, so it would be really easy for them to keep doing it illegally in order to avoid the heavy taxes the government is trying to impose.   If government was smart they would start out with a really low tax.  Then after the illegal industry was gone, and everything was out in the open, they could raise the  taxes much more easily.   Government isn't smart though.  That fact is becoming more and more evident to me. 

 


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don't take it personal,

don't take it personal, beyond.  i think brian literally cannot let you start a thread without trying to highjack it and make it about that rotting corpse of a horse he keeps whaling on, regardless of the logical leaps he has to go through (or should i say ignore) to get there.

just for shits and giggles, you should make a thread where all you write is a story about how touched you were when a little girl on the street gave you a flower.  i guarantee reply #1 would be brian going, "oh whaa whaa, you just can't stand it that you lost the election, poor people should just die, right?" etc., etc.  honestly, i don't think he even reads your (or anybody's) posts closely enough to know when he's introducing a complete non sequitur, considering that's what he does 90% of the time.

oth, i've noticed plenty of threads he's started where you haven't chimed in at all.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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iwbiek wrote:don't take it

iwbiek wrote:

don't take it personal, beyond.  i think brian literally cannot let you start a thread without trying to highjack it and make it about that rotting corpse of a horse he keeps whaling on, regardless of the logical leaps he has to go through (or should i say ignore) to get there.

just for shits and giggles, you should make a thread where all you write is a story about how touched you were when a little girl on the street gave you a flower.  i guarantee reply #1 would be brian going, "oh whaa whaa, you just can't stand it that you lost the election, poor people should just die, right?" etc., etc.  honestly, i don't think he even reads your (or anybody's) posts closely enough to know when he's introducing a complete non sequitur, considering that's what he does 90% of the time.

oth, i've noticed plenty of threads he's started where you haven't chimed in at all.

 

When the top can get most people back to a 40 hour week and where they can pay their bills on ONE job, then I'll stop bitching. But since we are nothing but tools to them, I will bitch.

Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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You know I wouldn't be that

You know I wouldn't be that surprised to someday find out that Brain is actually some kind of advance chat bot made by the Democrat party.  At least it would explain the lack of reading comprehension.  It's almost like instead of read he goes through people's posts looking for certain key words then spews out democratic talking points based on them.   “Pot” and “Illegal” Showed up and we got “Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.” even though no one suggested keeping pot illegal.  In all seriousness Brian you really need to work on your reading comprehension.  It's horrible. 


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Brian37 wrote:iwbiek

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

don't take it personal, beyond.  i think brian literally cannot let you start a thread without trying to highjack it and make it about that rotting corpse of a horse he keeps whaling on, regardless of the logical leaps he has to go through (or should i say ignore) to get there.

just for shits and giggles, you should make a thread where all you write is a story about how touched you were when a little girl on the street gave you a flower.  i guarantee reply #1 would be brian going, "oh whaa whaa, you just can't stand it that you lost the election, poor people should just die, right?" etc., etc.  honestly, i don't think he even reads your (or anybody's) posts closely enough to know when he's introducing a complete non sequitur, considering that's what he does 90% of the time.

oth, i've noticed plenty of threads he's started where you haven't chimed in at all.

 

When the top can get most people back to a 40 hour week and where they can pay their bills on ONE job, then I'll stop bitching. But since we are nothing but tools to them, I will bitch.

Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.

Have you applied for a 40 hour week job recently?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Back on the rails

RatDog wrote:

People make their choices for a variety of reasons, but money is one of the biggest reason for a lot of thing.  So if government taxes too much people are going to change their behavior.   Now think about marijuana.  People have been growing it illegally for some time now.   They are all set up to grow it illegally, so it would be really easy for them to keep doing it illegally in order to avoid the heavy taxes the government is trying to impose.   If government was smart they would start out with a really low tax.  Then after the illegal industry was gone, and everything was out in the open, they could raise the  taxes much more easily.   Government isn't smart though.  That fact is becoming more and more evident to me. 

Yeah, given how efficient and developed the illegal system is, I don't see legal places being able to compete. I think they might be able to do good business with tourists and perhaps a few people who will start smoking because it is legal. I am extremely curious to see if there is a significant number of new smokers because of legalization. My gut says probably not, but the crowd I hang out with tends to treat vice laws as unwelcome suggestions so my perception might be skewed.

I wouldn't say legal places won't find ways to compete, but following laws and taxes will create a unique challenge. I would be hesitant to invest at this time. Companies focusing on edibles might get around direct competition with the illegal market.

It will also be interesting to see how the state reacts and what it does in regards to policing against illegal sales. Aggressive police action could make more people willing to pay for legal. And will teens who start smoking set up contacts in the black market  or go legal as soon as they can? Teens tend to be overcharged for lower quality anyway, so when they try legal they might believe it is higher quality because it is legal rather than realize their dealer has just been using them to unload schwag.
 

I am really curious how this is going to shake out. Besides, if the legit stuff goes gangbusters, I am not opposed to being first in the business if it is legalized here.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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RatDog wrote:You know I

RatDog wrote:

You know I wouldn't be that surprised to someday find out that Brain is actually some kind of advance chat bot made by the Democrat party.  At least it would explain the lack of reading comprehension.  It's almost like instead of read he goes through people's posts looking for certain key words then spews out democratic talking points based on them.   “Pot” and “Illegal” Showed up and we got “Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.” even though no one suggested keeping pot illegal.  In all seriousness Brian you really need to work on your reading comprehension.  It's horrible. 

No, the "chat bot" is the republican party. I only blame democrats for lacking a backbone.

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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

iwbiek wrote:

don't take it personal, beyond.  i think brian literally cannot let you start a thread without trying to highjack it and make it about that rotting corpse of a horse he keeps whaling on, regardless of the logical leaps he has to go through (or should i say ignore) to get there.

just for shits and giggles, you should make a thread where all you write is a story about how touched you were when a little girl on the street gave you a flower.  i guarantee reply #1 would be brian going, "oh whaa whaa, you just can't stand it that you lost the election, poor people should just die, right?" etc., etc.  honestly, i don't think he even reads your (or anybody's) posts closely enough to know when he's introducing a complete non sequitur, considering that's what he does 90% of the time.

oth, i've noticed plenty of threads he's started where you haven't chimed in at all.

 

When the top can get most people back to a 40 hour week and where they can pay their bills on ONE job, then I'll stop bitching. But since we are nothing but tools to them, I will bitch.

Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.

Have you applied for a 40 hour week job recently?

EVERY JOB should be a 40 hour a week job. When the highschool kids are at school who runs the places they don't work because they are at school?

You stupidly equate low pay as a crime. Pay gap and lack of hours is the crime, not the job itself.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:RatDog

Brian37 wrote:

RatDog wrote:

You know I wouldn't be that surprised to someday find out that Brain is actually some kind of advance chat bot made by the Democrat party.  At least it would explain the lack of reading comprehension.  It's almost like instead of read he goes through people's posts looking for certain key words then spews out democratic talking points based on them.   “Pot” and “Illegal” Showed up and we got “Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.” even though no one suggested keeping pot illegal.  In all seriousness Brian you really need to work on your reading comprehension.  It's horrible. 

No, the "chat bot" is the republican party. I only blame democrats for lacking a backbone.

I don't really believe you are a chat bot, but sometimes you do a remarkably good impression of one.  Seriously, work on your reading comprehension.  It's important. 


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Brian37 wrote:EVERY JOB

Brian37 wrote:

EVERY JOB should be a 40 hour a week job. When the highschool kids are at school who runs the places they don't work because they are at school?

You stupidly equate low pay as a crime. Pay gap and lack of hours is the crime, not the job itself.

A lot of people don't want to or can't work 40 hour weeks. I certainly don't. And many employers don't need an employee for 40 hours. Why do you insist that everyone work the same hours you want? Some jobs are 40 hours, some are 20, others are 80. Go apply for one that has the schedule you prefer.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

EVERY JOB should be a 40 hour a week job. When the highschool kids are at school who runs the places they don't work because they are at school?

You stupidly equate low pay as a crime. Pay gap and lack of hours is the crime, not the job itself.

A lot of people don't want to or can't work 40 hour weeks. I certainly don't. And many employers don't need an employee for 40 hours. Why do you insist that everyone work the same hours you want? Some jobs are 40 hours, some are 20, others are 80. Go apply for one that has the schedule you prefer.

Alot of people don't want to work 40 hours a week? NO SHIT, that is why many own businesses.

I don't insist everyone work the same hours. I do insist that the top not starve people.

 

Seriously you are so fucked in the head trying to argue "20 hours" or "5" hours or "80 hours" is a choice.

 

The top would not stop until the rest of us work 40 1 hour jobs at 1 penny an hour.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote: Alot of

Brian37 wrote:

 

Alot of people don't want to work 40 hours a week? NO SHIT, that is why many own businesses.

I don't insist everyone work the same hours. I do insist that the top not starve people.

 

You just said "every job should be 40 hours"

 

Brian37 wrote:

Seriously you are so fucked in the head trying to argue "20 hours" or "5" hours or "80 hours" is a choice.

 

Of course it is. I know people who work all those schedules and a few more creative ones. Try searching the help wanted ads. Name the schedule you want to work and I will show you someone who works it.

 

Brian37 wrote:

The top would not stop until the rest of us work 40 1 hour jobs at 1 penny an hour.

Wait, I thought you were bitching because your boss won't let you work 40 hours?

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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RatDog wrote:You know I

RatDog wrote:

You know I wouldn't be that surprised to someday find out that Brain is actually some kind of advance chat bot made by the Democrat party.  At least it would explain the lack of reading comprehension.  It's almost like instead of read he goes through people's posts looking for certain key words then spews out democratic talking points based on them.   “Pot” and “Illegal” Showed up and we got “Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.” even though no one suggested keeping pot illegal.  In all seriousness Brian you really need to work on your reading comprehension.  It's horrible. 

I liked it when AIGS was still in charge. I have something of a hunch that he was a HUGE deletionist when it came to people's posts, but he gave brian a definite hint to have his "diatribes" deal directly with a respondee's post content and not what he wants to address through selective reading. It seemed to work, but now AIGS is gone and the reins are off, again.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:I liked it when

Kapkao wrote:

I liked it when AIGS was still in charge. I have something of a hunch that he was a HUGE deletionist when it came to people's posts, but he gave brian a definite hint to have his "diatribes" deal directly with a respondee's post content and not what he wants to address through selective reading. It seemed to work, but now AIGS is gone and the reins are off, again.

I miss AIGS and his posts. But it has been over a couple of years since I recall reading anything on here by him. Of course, I was absent for most of 2011 so I don't know for sure.

Last I heard, he was looking for another job or something.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Kapkao wrote:I liked it when

Kapkao wrote:

I liked it when AIGS was still in charge. I have something of a hunch that he was a HUGE deletionist when it came to people's posts....

  Oh yeah he was heavy into deleting posts, which was total bullshit.   He once deleted a whole fucking thread because "there was already another thread dealing with the same topic".     Jesus, how many threads here deal with the same topic of ATHEISM vs RELIGION over and over ?  I hate control freaks.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote: When the top

Brian37 wrote:

 

When the top can get most people back to a 40 hour week and where they can pay their bills on ONE job, then I'll stop bitching. But since we are nothing but tools to them, I will bitch.

and that includes bitching when it has nothing to do with the topic at hand?  do you randomly walk down the street and bitch at total strangers?  do you bitch to yourself in your room alone?  cuz if so, that sounds a lot like the behavior of a religious fanatic...

Brian37 wrote:

Keeping pot illegal has hurt us, not helped us. Just like prohibition did not work.

who here said it should be illegal?  seems to ME (because i actually read posts i'm interested in carefully) that beyond is saying pot should be both LEGAL and UNTAXED (or at least not taxed punitively, like tobacco).  so if you have a problem with THAT position, you should address IT, and not the fuckin' imaginary position in your HEAD.

(who wants to bet i'm about to be called PC?)

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:  Oh

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Oh yeah he was heavy into deleting posts, which was total bullshit.   He once deleted a whole fucking thread because "there was already another thread dealing with the same topic".     Jesus, how many threads here deal with the same topic of ATHEISM vs RELIGION over and over ?  I hate control freaks.

I didn't know that about him. I DO remember him tossing a bit of a hissy fit at member SandyCane over a discussion about Uncle Tom's Cabin and I thought his reaction was a bit over the top.

Sandy had simply stated that she wondered if black people would be as blase about the use of racial terms in an old book as some white members seemed to be on here.

AIGS seemed to get overreacted about this and started fuming that he could have her banned for that.

Another mod stepped in at the time (Butterbattle) and said that he saw no problem with it and allowed the discussion to continue.

I guess Sandy got so busy with her new business that she did not have time for the forum any longer. I did think AIGS was acting a bit like a prick on that one.

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― Giordano Bruno


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iwbiek wrote: so if you

iwbiek wrote:

 so if you have a problem with THAT position, you should address IT, and not the fuckin' imaginary position in your HEAD.

(who wants to bet i'm about to be called PC?)

LOL. And don't forget, you have a real problem with people using profanity. Smiling

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Oh yeah he was heavy into deleting posts, which was total bullshit.   He once deleted a whole fucking thread because "there was already another thread dealing with the same topic".     Jesus, how many threads here deal with the same topic of ATHEISM vs RELIGION over and over ?  I hate control freaks.

I didn't know that about him. (...)

All I know is that posts and siggies disappeared when he was online. Hence why it is a hunch. That said, I miss his explanations over his knowledge of science and what not.

 

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


harleysportster
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Kapkao wrote:All I know is

Kapkao wrote:

All I know is that posts and siggies disappeared when he was online. Hence why it is a hunch. That said, I miss his explanations over his knowledge of science and what not.

 

He did have a load of information on science and other subjects. That was one reason that I liked his posts.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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i guess i've never said

i guess i've never said anything on here of enough consequence to be fucked with.  story of my life...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:i guess i've

iwbiek wrote:

i guess i've never said anything on here of enough consequence to be fucked with.  story of my life...

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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From My Fair Lady ('Ole!')

'Ole!'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

iwbiek wrote:

don't take it personal, beyond.  .. just for shits and giggles, you should make a thread where all you write is a story about how touched you were when a little girl on the street gave you a flower.

     Lyrics from the popular song in the movie My fair Lady :

Poor Eliza: Ay not I, O not Ow, Pounding pounding in our brain.
Henry: Ay not I, O not Ow, Don't say "Rine," say "Rain"...
Eliza begins:  The  rain  in  Spain  stays  mainly  in  the  plain!
Henry: By George, she's got it! By George, she's got it!
And Now, once again; where does it rain? Eliza: On the plain!
On the plain! Henry: And where's that soggy plain?
Eliza: In Spain! In Spain! Then three times.
The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain!
The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain! Henry:
In Hartford, Hereford, and Hampshire...?
Eliza, a common Cockney flower girl: Hurricanes hardly happen.
How kind of you to let me come! Henry:
Now once again, where does it rain?
Eliza: On the plain! On the plain!
Henry:And where's that blasted plain?
Eliza: In Spain! In Spain! The three time more:
The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain!
The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain!

The rain in Spain stays mainly in the plain!

 

:

 

 


 

 p.s. -- Aeap, consult your pasodoble tunes.


pauljohntheskeptic
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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

http://www.marijuana.com/news/2013/10/legal-weed-will-cost-an-average-of-15-in-colorado-and-washington/

The tax measures on pot passed with a significant amount of support. The result will be that legal pot is going to be significantly more expensive than illegal pot. Estimates have legal pot selling for $400-$500 per ounce. For you non-smokers, for about 1/2 that price you can get a dealer to deliver your pot to your door- which if you are like me, getting it delivered is very important because if I'm smoking, I don't feel like getting dressed. So pot smokers will be faced with the dilemma of buying legal pot for almost twice what they pay now, or continuing to purchase the illegal pot. Which do you think they will do?

I live in Colorado, moved back here several years ago. I voted no on the tax. Why did it pass?

There were 2 tax measures on the Colorado ballot.

Prop AA - the Pot tax - part for regulation and part for schools and

Prop 66 - an income tax increase from a flat 4.63% to 5% for up to $75000 and 5.9% over $75000 supposedly for school funding.

The pot tax passed by 2/3

The income tax increase failed by 2/3

I voted no on both.The income tax increase was misrepresented in ads - half truths and distortions.

There were no ads really either way on the pot taxes.

These measures came just 2 weeks after the government shutdown. You think the average voter wants to have any level of government have more money after that?

The pattern here to the average voter was both were for schools. If one did not smoke pot then one would not see any personal cost, however if one had income one would pay more taxes. Simple deduction then would be let the pot users pay for schools. Though the use was not exactly the same for the funds.

As to the average cost of pot in Colorado.

Simplified approximation

My son has a medical card as do over 100,000 others in Colorado. The dispensary can grow 6 plants, as can he. He buys about 2 ounces every 5 to 6 weeks. A plant produces about 8 ounces every 23 weeks. So approximately 48 ounces in 6 months. He buys only 8 to 9 ounces of the 48 ounces leaving 40 ounces they can grow he does not buy.

He buys top shelf pot with about 27% THC for $201 an ounce. Easily 2 to 3 times better than street pot.

Average cost of 10 to 12 % THC pot is about $100 to 125 an ounce which is comparable to street pot.

The average recreational user would not be able to handle the high content top shelf pot and would be happy with the lower THC pot.

Beyond Saving wrote:

And no, you cannot go to the store and just buy some seeds, that is still illegal. If it was legal, yes the price of pot would fall quickly. But since it is heavily regulated, you have to buy permits, fill out paperwork etc. which all requires employees and money.

Why would you want to buy seeds anyway? No clue what you get - male, female or hermaphrodite.

Medical card holders can buy plant clones for about $10 here.

Colorado's Amendment 64 allowed personal growing of plants up to 6.

One can gifts clones here. One can gift pot here. One can gift seeds here.

Consider how many seeds one can collect over 20 plus years of use. Do you really thinks there are no seeds here or elsewhere? But like I said, why would you want seeds anyway!

I currently don't smoke pot but I have. And I will again. I will probably go for the higher CBD varieties as I'm over 60 and I will need that for the benefits.

Starting in January recreational users will be able to buy pot, edibles and plant clones just like medical users.

There have been over 138 applications by dispensaries to also be recreational and over 100 new grower permit applications for recreational.

If the dispensary or recreational outlet grows their own pot there is no 15% tax on wholesale only the 10% retail tax plus normal sales tax.

Others not currently in the medical dispensary business will be able to apply for permits in October 2014.

So, I beg to differ on the quoted costs of $400 to $500 an ounce.

In Colorado the end user cost will stay the same more than likely and eventually go down as supply increases though there may be a transitional phase in January to March with price fluctuations. Most medical card holders will stock up in December to offset the effects.

Unlike Washington, anyone here can grow 6 plants. Washington's taxes are higher and probably are in the area quoted in the article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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Beyond Saving wrote:RatDog

Beyond Saving wrote:

RatDog wrote:

People make their choices for a variety of reasons, but money is one of the biggest reason for a lot of thing.  So if government taxes too much people are going to change their behavior.   Now think about marijuana.  People have been growing it illegally for some time now.   They are all set up to grow it illegally, so it would be really easy for them to keep doing it illegally in order to avoid the heavy taxes the government is trying to impose.   If government was smart they would start out with a really low tax.  Then after the illegal industry was gone, and everything was out in the open, they could raise the  taxes much more easily.   Government isn't smart though.  That fact is becoming more and more evident to me. 

Yeah, given how efficient and developed the illegal system is, I don't see legal places being able to compete. I think they might be able to do good business with tourists and perhaps a few people who will start smoking because it is legal. I am extremely curious to see if there is a significant number of new smokers because of legalization. My gut says probably not, but the crowd I hang out with tends to treat vice laws as unwelcome suggestions so my perception might be skewed.

I wouldn't say legal places won't find ways to compete, but following laws and taxes will create a unique challenge. I would be hesitant to invest at this time. Companies focusing on edibles might get around direct competition with the illegal market.

It will also be interesting to see how the state reacts and what it does in regards to policing against illegal sales. Aggressive police action could make more people willing to pay for legal. And will teens who start smoking set up contacts in the black market  or go legal as soon as they can? Teens tend to be overcharged for lower quality anyway, so when they try legal they might believe it is higher quality because it is legal rather than realize their dealer has just been using them to unload schwag.
 

I am really curious how this is going to shake out. Besides, if the legit stuff goes gangbusters, I am not opposed to being first in the business if it is legalized here.

I think that how well legal competes with illegal will depend on exactly how the legal side is done.  The position that the federal government takes will probably make a big difference as well.     I don't really know that much about the laws that currently exists or the ones that people are pushing for so I'll ignore that for now.      If I was in complete control of the government's policies and if my goal was maximizing tax revenue then my strategy would be to try and make the pot industry like the tobacco industry.  The government seem to do a good job of squeezing tax money out of that. 

http://blog.turbotax.intuit.com/2010/06/22/how-much-is-the-government-making-off-of-tobacco/

My first step to achieving this end would be to try and destroy the current pot industry and culture.   To do this I would make marijuana subject to the same laws as tobacco, and if possible I would encourage the tobacco industry to take it up.  Ideally I would want marijuana to be grown out in the open and moved through regular supply chains.  That would make it much easier to tax latter.   

To start with their wouldn't be much tax.  Just a very small token tax because it's easier to raise taxes later then it is to create whole new taxes.  I wouldn't raise taxes until the old pot industry and culture was destroyed.  In regards to what you said about the efficiency of the illegal system I think that maybe you are underestimating the efficiency of US supply chains and Industrial Agriculture.  If I'm wrong though, and if this was not enough to destroy the old industry my next move would be to go after the old supply chains.  So long as you control the supply chains you can still impose your taxes regardless of the source of the pot.  I would justify this move by saying the pot need to be inspected for “people's safety”.       

I'm not an expert on this type of stuff, but I think such a strategy would have a good chance of working.  On a more person note I would prefer it if pot was legal, cheap and readily available.   


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I didn't know anyone could

I didn't know anyone could have 6 plants. Then why would anyone in the state pay the tax? At a little under 2 oz a week, all but the most dedicated smokers would have extra- and probably be willing to sell it cheap. Hell, I smoke maybe 1 oz every 3-4 months, I would be more than willing to have 6 plants and sell off the excess. It would make it incredibly easy to avoid the taxes and when you make it easy to avoid taxes, people will. I would think that a better strategy for maximizing government revenue would be to keep taxes low enough that avoiding them isn't worth any effort and rely on volume.  

Washington will certainly experience more of a price shock than Colorado, because it also instituted strict caps on how much could be grown in state, in addition to higher taxes. If the price stays in the ballpark of illegal pot, I think most people would choose legal.

From a pure government trying to get as much money as possible aspect, I think Ratdog's strategy would be better. Or simply tax it like alcohol. Of course, I am sure that many of the people who voted for the tax do so because they think smoking it is bad and they want to actively discourage people from smoking it. Which on a philosophical level I have a problem with government using taxes as a method to encourage or discourage behavior, but it is effective and pot is hardly the only product subjected to special taxation.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:I didn't

Beyond Saving wrote:

I didn't know anyone could have 6 plants. Then why would anyone in the state pay the tax? At a little under 2 oz a week, all but the most dedicated smokers would have extra- and probably be willing to sell it cheap. Hell, I smoke maybe 1 oz every 3-4 months, I would be more than willing to have 6 plants and sell off the excess. It would make it incredibly easy to avoid the taxes and when you make it easy to avoid taxes, people will. I would think that a better strategy for maximizing government revenue would be to keep taxes low enough that avoiding them isn't worth any effort and rely on volume.  

Washington will certainly experience more of a price shock than Colorado, because it also instituted strict caps on how much could be grown in state, in addition to higher taxes. If the price stays in the ballpark of illegal pot, I think most people would choose legal.

From a pure government trying to get as much money as possible aspect, I think Ratdog's strategy would be better. Or simply tax it like alcohol. Of course, I am sure that many of the people who voted for the tax do so because they think smoking it is bad and they want to actively discourage people from smoking it. Which on a philosophical level I have a problem with government using taxes as a method to encourage or discourage behavior, but it is effective and pot is hardly the only product subjected to special taxation.

 

Pot is not that easy to grow indoors, because that is what you must do - in a locked room per law.

Again there were 2 different taxes only for recreational pot.

1- wholesale if a grower sells to a retail outlet it's the 15 % tax - if the retail outlet grows it's own 0 % tax at wholesale.

2-retail 10 % on all recreational sold pot

3 - Regular state and city sales taxes apply

Colorado Law for pot

You can have 3 in bloom and 3 not. You can have all you grow in your possession in your home.

However - You can not sell it if you grow it for personal or medical use. You can gift it if it was personal, but not sell it in any event.

If you do not have a medical card, you can only have 1 ounce on you if not at home, whether you grew it or bought it or the pot fairy gave it to you.

If you have a medical card, you can have 2 ounces on you if not at home, again whether you grew it or bought it or it fell from the sky.

Growing 6 plants was in Amendment 64 which is part of the Colorado Constitution for recreational the same as was allowed in the medical constitutional amendment a few years back.

Colorado citizens can buy up to 1 ounce for recreational use and medical card holders can buy up to 2 ounces at one time.

However, you foreigners or pot tourists can only buy 1/4 ounce at a time, though you can have a total of 1 ounce on you, smaller package, means you foreigners will pay more per ounce.

But you can't leave Colorado with the pot you buy here, the bordering states will be just dying to pull you over.

Legal here, not in Kansas, Nebraska, Wyoming, New Mexico, or Utah they will charge you if found.

 

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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That's fucking ridiculously

That's fucking ridiculously expensive. I tend to pay between $120 & $200/oz, depending on connections and quality and quantity. Hell no I wouldn't pay that extreme amount of taxes. What the fuck are these idiots thinking? You can't institute a 100+% tax that way. Fucking morons. You have to kill the black market first, THEN you can charge up the ass when noone can do it themselves anymore. This is really just proof that the people in power are brainless buffoons. There really needs to be a merit system introduced to democracy. It's all going to shit the way things are now.

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