Take the intelectual fight to them.

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Take the intelectual fight to them.

Before I begin. I must insist that believers understand, what I am saying here is not a human rights issue. Every atheist here has to some degree believing family and friends and co workers. No atheist should be in the same utopia mindset to think "if only everyone were atheists". On a planet of 7 billion and in an imperfect species, there is no utopia and we should deal with reality the way it is, not the way we want it to be.

 

It is ALSO possible for the atheist to value the human struggle, such as Ann Frank, Martin Luther King Jr, and Malala, without believing in the gods they profess. Atheists in the west, for the most part are always on the side of minorities and have had a long history of supporting the rights of minorities.

 

However, there is a fight going on, and politics and religion are dividing humanity, and all religions are used as weapons to claim moral superiority over others. And there are masses of humans suckered by clearly con artists out of their money  over the stupid idea that a utopia is possible at all.

 

Two of the biggest con artists are cowards and refuse to debate anyone anywhere, and it is up to those of reason to take the VERBAL ONLY, intellectual fight to them.

Here are the facebook pages of Joel Olsteen and Benny Hinn. I invite you to go there and put counter arguments on their pages. You most likely will get deleted, but the more of us that do this, the harder it will be for them to ignore debate.

 

But not just on facebook. Any media or newspaper website where ANY believer of any religion makes a post, counter their arguments with facts. We wont make religion go away, but when it ignores facts and when it poisons minds and fleeces people out of money, only facts and reason can keep these people on a leash.

https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries

https://www.facebook.com/JoelOsteen?rf=106009516105438

And just for shits and giggles, here is Banana man's farcebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/official.Ray.Comfort

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 I guess it is proof that delusion knows no label. Go buy your collection of penis extensions , you look as nutty as a religious doomsdayer.

What is funny is that you and your believing gun nutters think you can take on governments with tanks and jets. Good luck with that.

 

                                                                                   ....more and bigger guns Brian, we just need more bigger guns.

 

                                                                                       

Fixed

                                                                              Thanks Beyond, I had over-looked that important aspect

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Brian37 wrote:... Go buy

Brian37 wrote:

... Go buy your collection of penis extensions

 

          No Brian, again you've got it all wrong.  When I want to compensate for my incredibly shriveled and wholly inadequate male sex organ ( apologies to my girlfriend ) I just let my pants sag really low so that my boxers show, turn my ball cap sideways, and call women bitches.  Get your stereotypes straight.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Well, This thread is lost!!

     Well, This thread is lost!!


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    No it isn't.  

    No it isn't.   Threads frequently wander, if that bothers you then I willingly yield the floor to you.

 

                               Please proceed with your on-topic comments...

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fuck, in all my years of

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

enjoy having it all figured out, brian.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 I guess it is proof that delusion knows no label. Go buy your collection of penis extensions , you look as nutty as a religious doomsdayer.

What is funny is that you and your believing gun nutters think you can take on governments with tanks and jets. Good luck with that.

 

                                                                                   ....more and bigger guns Brian, we just need more bigger guns.

 

                                                                                       

Fixed

 

No dumbass, we need less guns PERIOD!

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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iwbiek wrote:fuck, in all my

iwbiek wrote:

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

enjoy having it all figured out, brian.

Holly shit, you know as well as I do that "atheist" is a "worldview" like "off" is a TV channel.

Don't give me any crap that you think that it is ok to believe absurd claims. If I claimed that the Yankees won the Superbowl you'd be right to call BULLSHIT, on that claim.

Religion IS poison, because it assumes first and then looks for excuses to prop up their ignorant placebo. If I was demanding like Hitler the murder of dissent, then you'd have a case. But since all I am doing is calling bullshit bullshit, your PC crap is no different to me than Muslims demanding you don't Bash Allah.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37

Brian37 wrote:

 

                                                                                       

 

 

No dumbass, we need less guns PERIOD!

 

                                                 We need more guns for inner city school kids.  YOU'RE NEVER TOO YOUNG ...TO CARRY A GUN.

 

                                                                        

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Boy am I slow on the uptake.

Boy am I slow on the uptake. That sums it up right there.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Burn, baby... burn

Holy creamed pants shit

All of the sudden I'm glad I only agitated Iwb when he was drunk.

iwbiek wrote:

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Kapkao wrote:Holy creamed

Kapkao wrote:

Holy creamed pants shit

All of the sudden I'm glad I only agitated Iwb when he was drunk.

iwbiek wrote:

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

Lol, I have missed you Kap, welcome back.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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The only people on this

The only non-believers on this board that seriously offend me are Beyond and Brian.  Their logic is skewed and bordering on a mentally challenged cave man at times. 

 

When I first signed up here, I embraced guys like Brian at first, but still loathed backwards thinking stone wallers like Beyond.  Now, they're both equally worthless to the atheist cause or any cause for that matter.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Beyond Saving wrote:Kapkao

Beyond Saving wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

Holy creamed pants shit

All of the sudden I'm glad I only agitated Iwb when he was drunk.

iwbiek wrote:

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

Lol, I have missed you Kap, welcome back.

Thanks, it's good to have been back for the past 3 weeks.

 

quick... let's make it a point to make iwbiek eat his hat.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Brian37 wrote: Holly shit,

Brian37 wrote:

 

Holly shit, you know as well as I do that "atheist" is a "worldview" like "off" is a TV channel.

i'm not talking about your atheism, i'm talking about your blanket anti-religion stance, which has positive ideological content.  the fact that i have to explain this to you confirms that you take less than an instant to think about anything you say.

Brian37 wrote:

Don't give me any crap that you think that it is ok to believe absurd claims.

i will and i did.  i think it's ok sometimes and not others.  if believing in absurd claims makes you a more productive citizen, then not only is it ok, it's advisable.  if believing in absurd claims makes you suicide bomb a bus, then no, it is not ok.

what's TRULY absurd is refusing to recognize any difference between those two cases. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

your PC crap is no different to me than Muslims demanding you don't Bash Allah.

 

so saying you might actually want to educate yourself about something before you condemn it out of hand is PC?  saying there's no black and white to any issue is PC?  funny, i thought it was common sense...

then again, i'm talking to a moron.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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When hanging out at atheists

When hanging out at atheists websites here and elsewhere, one thing we are is diverse, but often, and rightfully so our own harshest critics.  "Anti" this or "phobia" that are falsely hurled at us, and it does not help us by placating the insecurities of believers by neutering in every case our criticism of religion. It is my position that it is good for believers to see our public infighting, if for nothing more than for them to see that we are individuals, just like any other label.

 

The biggest mistake humans make, which allows all labels to fall into PC traps of any label, is not separating the individual, from the multitude of claims and positions that individual might hold. It is not, for example, impossible for me to see Malala or Martin Luther King Jr, as heros, while still seeing their personal god/s as bunk. Just as in turn, it is not impossible for our believing family and friends to love us, while hating the fact we don't believe.

http://www.inquisitr.com/1000497/famous-atheist-sam-harris-co-opts-internet-hero-malala-gets-crucified-at-salon/

Sam Harris rightfully gave credit to Malala, as all of humanity should. Malala doesn't just represent the plight of Muslim girls/women, but all women worldwide. While humanity should appreciate her bravery, it should not mean claims of invisible beings, of any label should get a pass.

The same could be said for Martin Luther King Jr. When one does their homework, they will find that most atheists back during his day, supported his movement, and two of his biggest supporters were atheists. It still would not make virgin births possible or surviving rigor mortis possible.

 

The point of calling religion poison is not to rid the world of it by force. It is a poison because at it's core it teaches to accept first, defend first, and far too often blind obedience. It is sad that it takes a Malala or King to progress humanity. Ignorance is not bliss, and human progress is never made in setting up taboos.

There are now attempts to make an "atheist church", and to me this is no different. Anything can become a religion and if given enough political power can become abusive and tyrannical. I have been falsely accused of being "dogmatic" ,  which is stupid because I have also warned atheists not to go around saying "When we become the majority we will treat you better".  Cussing and blasphemy do not make me "dogmatic", just blunt. If I was treating atheism as a cure, like an ultimate utopia, I would not be criticizing attempts of fellow atheists of trying to compete with religion by setting up a church themselves.

 

There is a reason no one should get a pass, and I mean no one, because we are a diverse species, once you start insisting on taboos, politics and money by any group can become an ideology(treated like religion) to the point where dissent is oppressed. "Religion" is nothing more than our species taking our natural grouping in evolution, and setting up "in group" vs"out group", and turns it into a comic book fictional utopia, which will never be achieved by any label.

 

I will not back off calling religion poison. Hurricanes and tornados are natural too. Volcanos make land and give nutrients to soil, but that does not mean we want those things affecting us. And as I said before, "religion" isn't confined to Islam or Christianity or Hebrew or whatever. "Religion" can be worship of a political party, a nationality, or business,  or even something really stupid like a sports team where a fan will be so deeply deluded to the point of a fist fight.

Anything left to it to it's own devices without checks and balances and the ability to question, is a religion.

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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iwbiek wrote:fuck, in all my

iwbiek wrote:

fuck, in all my years of talking to christians, muslims, jews, hindus, and atheists, i've only ever personally met one man as sure of his worldview as brian, and that was a batshit insane baptist minister who talked like glenn beck on amphetamines.

if brian ever so much as admits he might be wrong in one of his fundamental conceptions, i'll eat my hat.

enjoy having it all figured out, brian.

 

Oh yea you got me, I've been calling for arrest and genocide of believers. Sorry you  are hung up on the word "poison", but since you have not read Dawkins or Hitchens or Harris, you haven't a damned clue as to why I take that position.

 

Beck is the doomsdayer, and I find it sad that you'd give a fuckwad like that cover and are miffed as to why I call religion poison? HE is the reason I call it poison. Pat Robertson is why I call religion poison. But politics in the form of ideology can also be a religion. Germany's worship of the Nazi party was a religion.  That is the part you miss.

You simply don't like my cussing and blasphemy. Get the fuck over yourself, seriously. Offending people is not a crime, physical violence is. Since I am not calling for physical violence, or arrest of theists, you have no case.

 

What do you think Beck or Robertson would do you you and me if they had a majority power? Those nutbags would if there were no constitution to protect us, make America look like the middle east. And despite the constitution our right wing is constantly trying to turn back the clock.

 

Having this verbal conflict with you, and or theists, IS UGLY, but that does not mean humans should avoid it. I don't want this issue swept under the rug, I want it out in the open where the scrutiny can keep sunlight on it. And since I have not demanded your silence in falsely equating me to nutbags like Beck, yet another reason to say you are full of shit. If I were "dogmatic" I'd be demanding your silence. All I have said is that you are full of shit.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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goddammit, brian, you really

goddammit, brian, you really only read the first and last sentences of my responses, don't you?

Brian37 wrote:

Oh yea you got me, I've been calling for arrest and genocide of believers.

look up "dogmatic."  being dogmatic has nothing to do with arrest and genocide.

Brian37 wrote:

Sorry you  are hung up on the word "poison", but since you have not read Dawkins or Hitchens or Harris, you haven't a damned clue as to why I take that position.

i have yet to even mention the word "poison," unlike you.  and i don't need to read their books.  i've heard them give their positions in debates multiple times.  their views are hardly complex.

Brian37 wrote:
 

HE is the reason I call it poison. Pat Robertson is why I call religion poison.

and yet for every beck and robertson, there's a gandhi, a dietrich bonhoeffer, a hans kung, a sarvepalli radhakrishnan, an albert schweitzer, a spinoza, a pandit nehru, a martin buber, a martin luther king, etc., etc.  you choose to ignore this.

Brian37 wrote:

But politics in the form of ideology can also be a religion. Germany's worship of the Nazi party was a religion.  That is the part you miss.

NO, IT FUCKING WASN'T, BRIAN, HOW MANY MOTHERFUCKING TIMES DO I HAVE TO SPECIFICALLY ADDRESS THIS POINT???  i have NOT missed that part, in fact i fucking specialize in it.  unless you fucking CONFLATE the term "religion" until it loses ALL FUCKING MEANING, it CANNOT BE USED THAT WAY.  i've specifically addressed, in MULTIPLE THREADS, over the last TWO FUCKING YEARS, why both national socialism and marxism-leninism are NOT religions in ANY FUCKING WAY.  search the fucking site.  i'm not going into it for a fifteenth fucking time.  READ SHIT PEOPLE WRITE OR STOP RESPONDING, DICK.

Brian37 wrote:

You simply don't like my cussing and blasphemy.

obviously i have a problem with cussing.  fuck cussing.

Brian37 wrote:

Since I am not calling for physical violence, or arrest of theists, you have no case.

again, look up "dogmatic."  got nothing to do with physical violence.

Brian37 wrote:

What do you think Beck or Robertson would do you you and me if they had a majority power?

yeah, because your actually educating yourself about religion and not saying ignorant fucking things anymore--and I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT YOUR CUSSING HERE, BRIAN, i'm talking about your UTTER LACK OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT RELIGIONS, which is the LITERAL MEANING of "ignorance"--is obviously going to allow beck and robertson to take over the country.  thank god (yup, i said it) we have you saying stupid shit on the internet.  it protects all our freedoms.

Brian37 wrote:

If I were "dogmatic" I'd be demanding your silence. All I have said is that you are full of shit.

again, look up "dogmatic," brian.  fucking look it up.  because your use of the term "dogmatic" is about as correct as your use of the term "religion."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

But politics in the form of ideology can also be a religion. Germany's worship of the Nazi party was a religion.  That is the part you miss.

  i've specifically addressed, in MULTIPLE THREADS, over the last TWO FUCKING YEARS, why both national socialism and marxism-leninism are NOT religions in ANY FUCKING WAY.  search the fucking site.  i'm not going into it for a fifteenth fucking time. 

I remember you addressing that issue when I had tried to make a similar argument way back (I can't remember the thread).

But you clearly demonstrated why Leninist-Marxim was not a religion and I had to admit to myself that I had not properly thought about it before I had made that ridiculous comparison. It also managed to teach me a couple of valuable lessons :

The two lessons learned were :

A. It taught me that refuting the people that want to say : "But Stalin was an Atheist." Is a little easier to refute because the whole entire argument of :  Communism was like religion is bunk anyway. So Stalin was an Atheist, so what ? Lenin was an Atheist and I agree with a lot of what Lenin wrote. It's a moot debate about whether a dictator was/is an atheist or not.

B. The MAJOR thing that it taught me was to realize that simply because a cliche or platitude "sounds" good, that it might not mean jack shit. I have heard a lot of one sentence assertions that really are untrue or twisted when they are analyzed.

Simply because some people toss around "Stalin was an Atheist" means nothing to me in terms of trying to come back at them with some slogan phrase that I heard on tv one time.

Anyway, never said thanks for schooling me on critical thinking and accuracy. Off topic of thread, but who cares ? Smiling

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote: I

harleysportster wrote:

 

I remember you addressing that issue when I had tried to make a similar argument way back (I can't remember the thread).

But you clearly demonstrated why Leninist-Marxim was not a religion and I had to admit to myself that I had not properly thought about it before I had made that ridiculous comparison. It also managed to teach me a couple of valuable lessons :

The two lessons learned were :

A. It taught me that refuting the people that want to say : "But Stalin was an Atheist." Is a little easier to refute because the whole entire argument of :  Communism was like religion is bunk anyway. So Stalin was an Atheist, so what ? Lenin was an Atheist and I agree with a lot of what Lenin wrote. It's a moot debate about whether a dictator was/is an atheist or not.

B. The MAJOR thing that it taught me was to realize that simply because a cliche or platitude "sounds" good, that it might not mean jack shit. I have heard a lot of one sentence assertions that really are untrue or twisted when they are analyzed.

Simply because some people toss around "Stalin was an Atheist" means nothing to me in terms of trying to come back at them with some slogan phrase that I heard on tv one time.

Anyway, never said thanks for schooling me on critical thinking and accuracy. Off topic of thread, but who cares ? Smiling

well, you know, it's not people making that assertion that piss me off, and it's not even brian disagreeing with my point of view that pisses me off.  if brian disagrees with my argument for what a religion is, let him address the points i make with a reasoned counter-argument.  several people on this site actually have and i didn't go off on them.

what pisses me off is that brian stops his ears and sticks to his mantras.  he doesn't address my points and i really think he doesn't even read them.

which also doesn't bother me per se.  i'm as guilty of skimming posts as anyone here and we all have busy lives outside this site.  many times i've basically said, "hey man, i don't have time to follow this up properly, so i'm gonna bow out of the discussion."  i just wish he would follow the advice i gave him rather forcefully above: either pay close attention to a person's arguments or leave the discussion.  and i hope we're all mature enough here that we don't consider having the last word some sort of "victory."  i know i don't.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Sage_Override wrote:The only

Sage_Override wrote:

The only non-believers on this board that seriously offend me are Beyond and Brian.  Their logic is skewed and bordering on a mentally challenged cave man at times. 

 

When I first signed up here, I embraced guys like Brian at first, but still loathed backwards thinking stone wallers like Beyond.  Now, they're both equally worthless to the atheist cause or any cause for that matter.

Yes I am a raving madman, but comparing me to Beyond? EWE!

Let me guess, you are of the "Kumbya can't we all just get along" camp. See the point is I agree we can and should get along. The problem with PC types is that long term they don't understand that demanding you not offend anyone can and often bites the very people asking for it right in the ass, and they never see it coming.

 

I hate Beyond's economic views, but I think he'd agree with Voltaire as I do "I may vehemently disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it".

See this is what I hate about people when they say ON ANY ISSUE, regarding a diverse species, "Worthless to the atheist cause".

 

Which implies you have the cookie cutter dogmatic playbook as how to be the "correct" type of atheist. No different a true Scotsman fallacy as "true Christian".

 

Beyond has a views I hate, but he is an atheist, regardless of what I may disagree with him on. So here you are saying both of us are worthless. But that would be a point of view matter on your part having nothing to do with the word "atheist" or represent all atheists. It simply means you don't like us as individuals.

A better argument would be to argue specific issues or simply say "I don't like YOU, the individual". But none of what you don't like about either of us is the sum of the word "atheist". "Atheist is a position, not a moral code.

 

 

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Brian37 wrote:Yes I am a

Brian37 wrote:

Yes I am a raving madman...

 

 

 

 

   Here's the deal Brian, there are those individuals who are passionate about their atheism.  They are unapologetic about their lack of belief and look for opportunities to explain why their atheism makes the best sense to them.

 

  Then there are atheists like you.  Your atheism drives you to fanaticism.  You're annoying as hell.  You never shut up and every situation involving atheism ( or your left-wing politics ) is a crisis that you must be the first to inform us about.  You are an uber neurotic fanatic.  Being a fanatic means that you will never see that you are a fanatic because in your mind you're just waging a "holy war" for atheism.

 

  Crazy people don't believe they're crazy.

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brian37 wrote:Yes I am a

brian37 wrote:

Yes I am a raving madman, but comparing me to Beyond? EWE!

 

Well, at least you admit to being mad, but in the worst way possible.

 

Quote:
Let me guess, you are of the "Kumbya can't we all just get along" camp. See the point is I agree we can and should get along. The problem with PC types is that long term they don't understand that demanding you not offend anyone can and often bites the very people asking for it right in the ass, and they never see it coming.

 

That statement just goes to show how much you pay attention to me or anyone else's views on anything around here.  Your perception is so fucked up that I can't believe you're an atheist.  You ignore responses by people and go off on these screwball viewpoints completely disregarding their point to make yourself seem clever or informed.  Wrong, pal.  You're a joke.  I'll clarify my viewpoint, even though you'll probably ignore it anyway.  You offend me in the same way a religious zealot does by shoving pamphlets in my face, condemning me to hell or casting homosexuals into the fire.  You offend me in the same way an ignorant, lop-sided, misguided despot does by jumping around shouting platitudes and ridiculous hyperbole to the point that I want to send a hit man to your location and end your wretched existence.  I could go on, but I have a lot more pressing things to do than grill you.

 

Quote:
I hate Beyond's economic views, but I think he'd agree with Voltaire as I do "I may vehemently disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it".

 

Go fuck yourself.

 

Quote:
See this is what I hate about people when they say ON ANY ISSUE, regarding a diverse species, "Worthless to the atheist cause".

 

See above response.

 

Quote:
Which implies you have the cookie cutter dogmatic playbook as how to be the "correct" type of atheist. No different a true Scotsman fallacy as "true Christian".

 

See above above response.

 

Quote:
Beyond has a views I hate, but he is an atheist, regardless of what I may disagree with him on. So here you are saying both of us are worthless. But that would be a point of view matter on your part having nothing to do with the word "atheist" or represent all atheists. It simply means you don't like us as individuals.

A better argument would be to argue specific issues or simply say "I don't like YOU, the individual". But none of what you don't like about either of us is the sum of the word "atheist". "Atheist is a position, not a moral code.

 

As an individual, you're a plague of self-absorbed, self-interest rhetoric that disgusts me.  On an intellectually fucked up level, though.  Beyond is on a primitive level.  You're both two sides of the same coin. 

 

As an atheist, you can go fuck yourself.

 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Sage_Override wrote:brian37

Sage_Override wrote:

brian37 wrote:

Yes I am a raving madman, but comparing me to Beyond? EWE!

 

Well, at least you admit to being mad, but in the worst way possible.

 

Quote:
Let me guess, you are of the "Kumbya can't we all just get along" camp. See the point is I agree we can and should get along. The problem with PC types is that long term they don't understand that demanding you not offend anyone can and often bites the very people asking for it right in the ass, and they never see it coming.

 

That statement just goes to show how much you pay attention to me or anyone else's views on anything around here.  Your perception is so fucked up that I can't believe you're an atheist.  You ignore responses by people and go off on these screwball viewpoints completely disregarding their point to make yourself seem clever or informed.  Wrong, pal.  You're a joke.  I'll clarify my viewpoint, even though you'll probably ignore it anyway.  You offend me in the same way a religious zealot does by shoving pamphlets in my face, condemning me to hell or casting homosexuals into the fire.  You offend me in the same way an ignorant, lop-sided, misguided despot does by jumping around shouting platitudes and ridiculous hyperbole to the point that I want to send a hit man to your location and end your wretched existence.  I could go on, but I have a lot more pressing things to do than grill you.

 

Quote:
I hate Beyond's economic views, but I think he'd agree with Voltaire as I do "I may vehemently disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it".

 

Go fuck yourself.

 

Quote:
See this is what I hate about people when they say ON ANY ISSUE, regarding a diverse species, "Worthless to the atheist cause".

 

See above response.

 

Quote:
Which implies you have the cookie cutter dogmatic playbook as how to be the "correct" type of atheist. No different a true Scotsman fallacy as "true Christian".

 

See above above response.

 

Quote:
Beyond has a views I hate, but he is an atheist, regardless of what I may disagree with him on. So here you are saying both of us are worthless. But that would be a point of view matter on your part having nothing to do with the word "atheist" or represent all atheists. It simply means you don't like us as individuals.

A better argument would be to argue specific issues or simply say "I don't like YOU, the individual". But none of what you don't like about either of us is the sum of the word "atheist". "Atheist is a position, not a moral code.

 

As an individual, you're a plague of self-absorbed, self-interest rhetoric that disgusts me.  On an intellectually fucked up level, though.  Beyond is on a primitive level.  You're both two sides of the same coin. 

 

As an atheist, you can go fuck yourself.

 

 

NOW YOU ARE GETTING IT! See you want me to get outraged at you saying "go fuck yourself". But here we are, you and me cussing at each other and both of us will still go to bed.

Who do you want to side with? Theists who demand you never speak ill of them, even when they do bat shit insane crap not the slightest rooted in reality based on comic book gods they cant even prove exist? Or know that I cant have you arrested for merely saying "You can go fuck yourself"

 

Cognitive dissonance is a bitch, isn't it?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Sage_Override wrote:.  That

Sage_Override wrote:
.

  That statement just goes to show how much you pay attention to me or anyone else's views on anything around here.  Your perception is so fucked up that I can't believe you're an atheist.  You ignore responses by people and go off on these screwball viewpoints completely disregarding their point to make yourself seem clever or informed.  Wrong, pal.  You're a joke.  I'll clarify my viewpoint, even though you'll probably ignore it anyway.  You offend me in the same way a religious zealot does by shoving pamphlets in my face, condemning me to hell or casting homosexuals into the fire.  You offend me in the same way an ignorant, lop-sided, misguided despot does by jumping around shouting platitudes and ridiculous hyperbole to the point that I want to send a hit man to your location and end your wretched existence....

 

 

                                                 Sage, a completely accurate assessment by you of our own crusading atheist nutter, Brian.

 

 

     Brian, instead of looking at this as just us ganging up on you, maybe you should look at this as a form of intervention ?  Perhaps as an appeal to what ever rational mind you have left before your psyche  finally snaps and you become some full blown crazy person who goes around mumbling "religion is poison, religion is poison, religion is poison" and thinks all theists are out to get him.   For "God's" sake Brian  ....GET HELP.

 

                  

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Sage_Override wrote:. 

Sage_Override wrote:
.  Beyond is on a primitive level. 

 

  Beyond could probably survive on a primitive level very easily as well as being quite dangerous ...but that's another story.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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I forgot you have to have to

I forgot you have to have to be rich and write books and use Oxford words to not be considered a nut.

When someone can point out where I said atheists should use force on believers, then you can consider me a nut. But just because you don't like my word choice does not make me a nut.

Using the word "bullshit" just makes me blunt. "Nuts" to me is expecting the world to be Disneyland where everyone only says nice things about you.

 

 

 

 

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Sage wrote:Well, at least

Sage wrote:
Well, at least you admit to being mad, but in the worst way possible.

 

Really? Seriously, you take me more seriously than I take myself.

 

Context matters and I think you simply want to slap a blanket formula on the world as to how conversations should go. I take the fact that humans do horrible things to other humans seriously. But if anyone is mad as in crazy it would be you for expecting the world to only say nice things 100% of the time in all contexts.

 

Civility is not demanding taboos. Civility is when you agree that no matter any amount of bitching aimed at you, or you aim at others, you don't get physical. Expecting 7 billion people to live in a Leave It to Beaver script is patiently absurd.

 

You have a comfort level you are accustom to, nothing more. I have been online for 12 years and run into a range of theists, many who don't have a thin skin and do not take it personally. I find it absurd that you would assume for other atheists, or even theists, that an individual human being cannot handle blasphemy or harsh criticism.

 

Your own scathing criticism of me right now, without me running away or demanding your silence should say something to you.

I am not super human, I am flawed, and I have the same ups and downs as any other human.

 

My only advice to you if you don't like what I have to say, counter my arguments, and or simply ignore me.

 

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ProzacDeathWish wrote:Being

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Being a fanatic means that you will never see that you are a fanatic because in your mind you're just waging a "holy war" for atheism.

 

  Crazy people don't believe they're crazy.

 

i don't drop quotes often, but i think a line of churchill's is pertinant here: "a fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:ProzacDeathWish

iwbiek wrote:

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Being a fanatic means that you will never see that you are a fanatic because in your mind you're just waging a "holy war" for atheism.

 

  Crazy people don't believe they're crazy.

 

i don't drop quotes often, but i think a line of churchill's is pertinant here: "a fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

 

 

Listen who is talking who wants to make a blanket statement themselves in that everything would be peachy if Brian37 would shut up.

Have I demanded your silence? But yet you think if I would simply shut up the world would suddenly become Leave It To Beaver.

Offending people is not the same as oppressing them. Offending people is not the same as physically assaulting them. When you can prove that I demanded the oppression of others merely by calling their beliefs bullshit, then I will concede. When you can prove I have called for the physical assault of believers then I will concede.

 

Sorry, I won't shut up, what are you going to do about it?

 

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I don't believe anyone has

I don't believe anyone has asked you to shut up, but since you bring it up... I think that is about to change.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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Brian37 wrote:  Listen who

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

Listen who is talking who wants to make a blanket statement themselves in that everything would be peachy if Brian37 would shut up.

never said that, nor even implied it.  you're either unstable, stupid, a liar, or all of the above.  honestly, i think you're losing your mind.

Brian37 wrote:

 

When you can prove that I demanded the oppression of others merely by calling their beliefs bullshit

why would i try to prove an assertion i've never made?  where did i make, brian?  WHERE?  fucking QUOTE ME.  god, you're a brainless trog.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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btw, i would like to make it

btw, i would like to make it known to everybody, so they can witness it, that i do not expect a serious, accurate, on-point response to my above post.  i expect to be either ignored or hit with another shrill non sequitur.

even just a casual glance at my exchanges with brian will show me dissecting his posts line by line and responding to each point, while his responses are nothing more than disjointed paragraphs that barely address any point i've made.

in terms of debate, i've obviously shown brian a shitload more attention than he's shown me, and i'm starting to feel embarrassed, like i'm using a shotgun to kill a fly.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Kapkao wrote:I don't believe

Kapkao wrote:

I don't believe anyone has asked you to shut up, but since you bring it up... I think that is about to change.

How?

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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

Listen who is talking who wants to make a blanket statement themselves in that everything would be peachy if Brian37 would shut up.

never said that, nor even implied it.  you're either unstable, stupid, a liar, or all of the above.  honestly, i think you're losing your mind.

Brian37 wrote:

 

When you can prove that I demanded the oppression of others merely by calling their beliefs bullshit

 

why would i try to prove an assertion i've never made?  where did i make, brian?  WHERE?  fucking QUOTE ME.  god, you're a brainless trog.

You act like it. Your problem is my word choice. That to me is a comfort level, not an absolute. Life is not all peaches and cream.

 

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Brian37 wrote:Kapkao wrote:I

Brian37 wrote:

Kapkao wrote:

I don't believe anyone has asked you to shut up, but since you bring it up... I think that is about to change.

How?

Someone may actually tell you to shut up.

 

btw, I really want Iwbiek to eat his hat, but I don't think that is going to happen now.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)


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I recommend a splash of tonic

iwbiek wrote:

btw, i would like to make it known to everybody, so they can witness it, that i do not expect a serious, accurate, on-point response to my above post.  i expect to be either ignored or hit with another shrill non sequitur.

even just a casual glance at my exchanges with brian will show me dissecting his posts line by line and responding to each point, while his responses are nothing more than disjointed paragraphs that barely address any point i've made.

in terms of debate, i've obviously shown brian a shitload more attention than he's shown me, and i'm starting to feel embarrassed, like i'm using a shotgun to kill a fly.

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Quote:Really?

Brian37 wrote:
Really? Seriously, you take me more seriously than I take myself.

 

I find that extremely hard to believe, but whatever you say, chuckles.

 

Brian37 wrote:
Context matters and I think you simply want to slap a blanket formula on the world as to how conversations should go. I take the fact that humans do horrible things to other humans seriously. But if anyone is mad as in crazy it would be you for expecting the world to only say nice things 100% of the time in all contexts.

 

Who said I said ANY OF THAT, you fucking whack-a-loon?  Holy fuck nuts, the hell is the matter with you besides everything?

 

 

Brian37 wrote:
Civility is not demanding taboos. Civility is when you agree that no matter any amount of bitching aimed at you, or you aim at others, you don't get physical. Expecting 7 billion people to live in a Leave It to Beaver script is patiently absurd.

 

Pal, I've never gotten physical with anyone.  Words hit a lot harder than fists and the way things are going with you, I'd say you're getting your delusional ass kicked straight to the moon.  The way you respond is like you look at the person then trail off into these otherworldly, non-related rants like your meds suddenly decided to fail you at the most inopportune moment.  It's fascinating really.

 

Brian37 wrote:
You have a comfort level you are accustom to, nothing more.

 

Lol god damn, you make me laugh like a hyena on helium, you sad sack of asylum-escaping weirdo.

 

Brian37 wrote:
I have been online for 12 years and run into a range of theists, many who don't have a thin skin and do not take it personally. I find it absurd that you would assume for other atheists, or even theists, that an individual human being cannot handle blasphemy or harsh criticism.

 

No one said ANY OF THAT; surely not me.  I said you were useless to atheists, but your translation is the result above.  I'd love to do a John Malkovich and step inside that head for awhile and see just how fucked up it is in there because the perception you have is really something to study.  Really, I'd donate your body to science.  I'd remove a chunk of your brain Dr. Walter Bishop style to keep you from short circuiting that already overheating synapse you have by trailing off every time your crazy kicks in. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
Your own scathing criticism of me right now, without me running away or demanding your silence should say something to you.

 

It says you can't shut the fuck up.  Being silent speaks volumes, but continuing to run your mouth like The Fisher King shows just how out of your rotted cerebellum you truly are.

Brian37 wrote:
I am not super human, I am flawed, and I have the same ups and downs as any other human.

 

As Bruce Willis' character Joe Hallenbeck from the movie The Last Boy Scout would say "...and then some."

 

Brian37 wrote:
My only advice to you if you don't like what I have to say, counter my arguments, and or simply ignore me.

 

Dully noted, fruit cake.

 

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Brian37 wrote: Sorry, I

Brian37 wrote:

 

Sorry, I won't shut up, what are you going to do about it?

 

  I know you were responding to iwbiek but you "shutting up" wasn't anything more than a short term solution to satisfy your critics of which I am one. 

Brian, can you really not see how you are defeating yourself by constantly becoming some shrill atheist version of feminist attorney Gloria Allred ?  Take your rhetoric down a notch or two and stop being some kind of over the top parody of the militant atheist.  The fight for atheism is not going to disappear just because you might decide to speak instead of scream.  Try taking a more relaxed approach.

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote:You act like

Brian37 wrote:

You act like it.

fuckin' hell...see, what'd i say?

Brian37 wrote:

Your problem is my word choice.

i have told you countless times that my problem is your obvious lack of knowledge about the religions you dismiss out of hand, and your refusal to educate yourself on them, probably from fear you might find the world isn't as simple as you'd like to believe.  if you choose to willfully disbelieve that, nobody can do anything about it.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

You act like it.

fuckin' hell...see, what'd i say?

Brian37 wrote:

Your problem is my word choice.

i have told you countless times that my problem is your obvious lack of knowledge about the religions you dismiss out of hand, and your refusal to educate yourself on them, probably from fear you might find the world isn't as simple as you'd like to believe.  if you choose to willfully disbelieve that, nobody can do anything about it.

Read the God Delusion, End of Faith, God Is Not Great, God The Failed Hypothesis, and The New Atheism, especially The New Atheism. If you have not done so then you have no clue as to why I dismiss ALL religions. With the exception of "God Is Not Great", all the rest are written by scientists.

All the good that humans do humans have always been capable of, all the cruelty we do to each other we have always been capable of. Religion is poison because it distracts us from our common existence. It is the dark side of evolution because it is an anthropomorphic reflection of our grouping behavior.

Our species has been around long before any written religion was concocted, and if humanity gave up on these, others would take their place. Evolution is not dependent on being Buddhist, Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or even atheist. Bad guesses can get you to the point of reproduction and produce safety in numbers, but that does not mean what that group believes is true.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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i literally might as well be

i literally might as well be talking to jean chauvin.  they might be from two opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, but his and brian's styles of argument are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:i literally

iwbiek wrote:
i literally might as well be talking to jean chauvin.  they might be from two opposite ends of the ideological spectrum, but his and brian's styles of argument are virtually indistinguishable at this point.

 

You hit the nail on the head with that one.  Both are the yin to each other's yang.

"When the majority believes in what is false, the truth becomes a quest." - Me


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Brian37 wrote:  your PC

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

your PC crap is no different to me than Muslims demanding you don't Bash Allah.

 

iwbiek wrote:
so saying you might actually want to educate yourself about something before you condemn it out of hand is PC?  saying there's no black and white to any issue is PC?  funny, i thought it was common sense...

then again, i'm talking to a moron.

 

    Okay, it's obvious Brian has become RRS's newest version of MattShizzle.   ...and having Brian be the face of "rational" atheism is like having Lee Harvey Oswald be the face of responsible gun ownership. 

 

 

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


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Brian37 wrote:Read the God

Brian37 wrote:

Read the God Delusion, End of Faith, God Is Not Great, God The Failed Hypothesis, and The New Atheism, especially The New Atheism. If you have not done so then you have no clue as to why I dismiss ALL religions.

i know exactly why you dismiss ALL religions, brian.  you've made no secret of it.  they're the same reasons the writers you mentioned have, and, for the second time, i don't NEED to read their books because i've WATCHED THEM LECTURE.  they follow the tradition of many intellectuals--hegel, shaw, william james, chesterton, etc.--in that their books are little more than organized transcriptions of their lectures.  

i KNOW dawkins' and hitchens' arguments.  it's just, and this may shock you, i don't find them terribly good.  dawkins might not be as annoying as you are, and he might have a cute oxford accent, and he might be a justifiably respected biologist, but that doesn't mean i have to think an argument like "all religious moderates make it easier for extremists to work, therefore moderate religion is just as dangerous" is logically compelling.  in fact, i don't.  it's a statement that can never be falsified, therefore it has about as much logical worth as "in the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Read the God Delusion, End of Faith, God Is Not Great, God The Failed Hypothesis, and The New Atheism, especially The New Atheism. If you have not done so then you have no clue as to why I dismiss ALL religions.

i know exactly why you dismiss ALL religions, brian.  you've made no secret of it.  they're the same reasons the writers you mentioned have, and, for the second time, i don't NEED to read their books because i've WATCHED THEM LECTURE.  they follow the tradition of many intellectuals--hegel, shaw, william james, chesterton, etc.--in that their books are little more than organized transcriptions of their lectures.  

i KNOW dawkins' and hitchens' arguments.  it's just, and this may shock you, i don't find them terribly good.  dawkins might not be as annoying as you are, and he might have a cute oxford accent, and he might be a justifiably respected biologist, but that doesn't mean i have to think an argument like "all religious moderates make it easier for extremists to work, therefore moderate religion is just as dangerous" is logically compelling.  in fact, i don't.  it's a statement that can never be falsified, therefore it has about as much logical worth as "in the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth."

No they have damned good arguments. Your well intended PC attitude allows you to give cover to the dark side of our species.

ALL religion in a long term species perspective ALWAYS is dangerous. You take your eye off of it, it can and will become abusive. Moderates do give cover to fundies, and it is only a secular leash on the west, in the form of protecting dissent and pluralism, IN SPITE of religion, that we are civil. Without a watchdog on religion and law protecting dissent, you will end up with dark ages and or Iran.

Look at this page, two seemingly conflicting stories.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Syrian-Atheists/363191530386710

 

On the one hand, they call for the help of moderates here. And I agree. Scroll to it,

Syrian Atheist FB page wrote:

Moderate Muslims who believe in freedom and human rights are our biggest allies against islamic tyranny portrayed in the islamist movement of modern political islam. No one can coexist with extremists, not even followers of their own faith.

 

Seems to be doing what Harris says, challenge those who do get along with us to stand up to their own.

 

Then on the other hand, blasts PC correctness here. Here they remind the well intended PC fail to see. Look for the "inclusive picture" with words above as follows:

Syrian Atheists FB page wrote:
"the worst form of religious persecution. Secular intolerance forces us to abandon our values, to be part of this festival of diversity. It is tantamount to apostasy." <-------(quote from article)( Site admin's opinion begins----->:  D :  D :  D  .. did he just use secular and intolerance in the same sentence? Oh right I forgot that states separated from religion don't tolerate intolerance and child abuse.

Hey listen funny hats if you suffering too much from secular intolerance in Europe then why don't you come over to Aleppo for a while so Al Qaeda can teach you a thing or two about religious tolerance.

 

The reaction Upon reading this article from Pathos.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/10/18/european-religious-leaders-secularism-could-be-the-new-terrorism/

Notice how he blasphemes all religions there by calling them all "funny hats"? Does that make him a bigot? Or is he criticizing ALL religions warning them what taboos can lead to?

Now Syria and the middle east are far more full of religious violence and sectarian violence, but I doubt they'd disagree with this Ann Frank quote.

Ann Frank wrote:

“In spite of everything I still believe that people are really good at heart. I simply can’t build up my hopes on a foundation consisting of confusion, misery, and death. I see the world gradually being turned into a wilderness, I hear the ever approaching thunder, which will destroy us too, I can feel the sufferings of millions and yet, if I look up into the heavens, I think that it will all come right, that this cruelty too will end, and that peace and tranquility will return again.”

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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brian,for the 151st time,my

brian,

for the 151st time,

my problem is NOT YOUR ARGUMENTS.  (i might disagree with the arguments of the writers you admire, but i would never hassle them, because they present those arguments in a reasoned way and address their opponents point by point).

my problem is NOT YOUR STYLE.  (i'm sorry, man, but in 2013 you are neither edgy nor in anyone's face.  sorry.)

my problem is YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.  you display WILLFUL, DELIBERATE IGNORANCE about religions both in general and in specific and when anyone demonstrates this, you simply IGNORE THAT PART OF THEIR POST.

THAT is my ONLY problem.  if THAT in your world is in some way PC, so be it.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:brian,for the

iwbiek wrote:

brian,

for the 151st time,

my problem is NOT YOUR ARGUMENTS.  (i might disagree with the arguments of the writers you admire, but i would never hassle them, because they present those arguments in a reasoned way and address their opponents point by point).

my problem is NOT YOUR STYLE.  (i'm sorry, man, but in 2013 you are neither edgy nor in anyone's face.  sorry.)

my problem is YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.  you display WILLFUL, DELIBERATE IGNORANCE about religions both in general and in specific and when anyone demonstrates this, you simply IGNORE THAT PART OF THEIR POST.

THAT is my ONLY problem.  if THAT in your world is in some way PC, so be it.

What "willful ignorance"?

That humans invent religions?

That no religion has a monopoly on human morality, nor does any have a patent on it?

That human behavior and our morality overlaps? That we have always been capable of the same cruelty and compassion?

That religion is not required to reproduce?

That people kill in the name of their religions despite that they have no evidence to support their naked assertions?

 

Name me ONE, just ONE religion, anyone you want, that is required to  live life or do good.

Religion IS a  poison you cant get rid of, but have to contain, just like you cant stop a hurricane, but if you ignore what it can do, it will bite you in the ass. In no way is that saying all people who are in a religion are bad. On an evolutionary scale I am simply saying it is a dark side of our existence we have to be aware of to prevent atrocities to our fellow human.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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 What "willful

 

What "willful ignorance"?

That humans invent governments?

That no government has a monopoly on human morality, nor does any have a patent on it?

That human behavior and our morality overlaps? That we have always been capable of the same cruelty and compassion?

That government is not required to reproduce?

That people kill in the name of their governments despite that they have no evidence to support their naked assertions?

 

Name me ONE, just ONE government, anyone you want, that is required to  live life or do good.

Government IS a  poison you cant get rid of, but have to contain, just like you cant stop a hurricane, but if you ignore what it can do, it will bite you in the ass. In no way is that saying all people who are in a government are bad. On an evolutionary scale I am simply saying it is a dark side of our existence we have to be aware of to prevent atrocities to our fellow human.

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote: What

Brian37 wrote:

 

What "willful ignorance"?

........

***Name me ONE, just ONE religion, anyone you want, that is required to  live life or do good.***

 

THAT, for one!  THAT RIGHT THERE!!!  there's NO, NO religion that is required for that, brian, because THAT'S NOT THE GODDAMN FUCKIN' POINT OF A RELIGION, and if you would READ MY FUCKING SHIT you would KNOW that.  i have explained, on i don't know HOW MANY fuckin' threads anymore, what a religion IS and what is its PURPOSE.  if you refuse to frame the argument in those terms, then your arguments are ir-fuckin'-relevant.

RELIGIONS ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPROVE THE HUMAN CONDITION, THEY'RE MEANT TO GIVE US A MEANS OF ESCAPING IT!!!!

god, you're fucking thick...

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

What "willful ignorance"?

........

***Name me ONE, just ONE religion, anyone you want, that is required to  live life or do good.***

 

THAT, for one!  THAT RIGHT THERE!!!  there's NO, NO religion that is required for that, brian, because THAT'S NOT THE GODDAMN FUCKIN' POINT OF A RELIGION, and if you would READ MY FUCKING SHIT you would KNOW that.  i have explained, on i don't know HOW MANY fuckin' threads anymore, what a religion IS and what is its PURPOSE.  if you refuse to frame the argument in those terms, then your arguments are ir-fuckin'-relevant.

RELIGIONS ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPROVE THE HUMAN CONDITION, THEY'RE MEANT TO GIVE US A MEANS OF ESCAPING IT!!!!

god, you're fucking thick...

 

Quote:
RELIGIONS ARE NOT MEANT TO IMPROVE THE HUMAN CONDITION, THEY'RE MEANT TO GIVE US A MEANS OF ESCAPING IT!!!!

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK! Alcohol is also used as an escape.  Doesn't mean you should binge drink. And it does not mean you should force your drinking on others.

Right, and I would not give a shit about their fantasies if they didn't affect the laws I live under, or cause global division.

But since humans don't keep their delusions to themselves, I have every right to challenge them question and blaspheme them.

Muslims like to escape with the claim that women are property. Jews and Muslims like to escape and pretend they have god given  property rights over land, and kill over it.

Christians like the escape of thinking gays are evil an ban gay marriage. Christians also like the escape of thinking atheists are evil.

Dark ages, which hunts, slavery, sexism, genocide, 9/11, holocaust, are ALL because humans gathered around a mass delusion and treated it as sacred. Political parties and nationalism can ALSO be a form of religion.

 

Don't treat the word "escape" like a movie or sport or vacation, like the same "escape" that religion is. Lion cubs are cute, but they are very dangerous as adults.

 

 

Quote:
Religions are not meant to improve the human condition

AGAIN no shit, which is why it takes questioning and challenging social norms to shake the chains of superstition so we can get past delusion and improve the human condition.

 

Valuing human rights does not mean we have to set up taboos or placate the insecurities of those who center their lives around absurd claims and base politics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37