Take the intelectual fight to them.

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Take the intelectual fight to them.

Before I begin. I must insist that believers understand, what I am saying here is not a human rights issue. Every atheist here has to some degree believing family and friends and co workers. No atheist should be in the same utopia mindset to think "if only everyone were atheists". On a planet of 7 billion and in an imperfect species, there is no utopia and we should deal with reality the way it is, not the way we want it to be.

 

It is ALSO possible for the atheist to value the human struggle, such as Ann Frank, Martin Luther King Jr, and Malala, without believing in the gods they profess. Atheists in the west, for the most part are always on the side of minorities and have had a long history of supporting the rights of minorities.

 

However, there is a fight going on, and politics and religion are dividing humanity, and all religions are used as weapons to claim moral superiority over others. And there are masses of humans suckered by clearly con artists out of their money  over the stupid idea that a utopia is possible at all.

 

Two of the biggest con artists are cowards and refuse to debate anyone anywhere, and it is up to those of reason to take the VERBAL ONLY, intellectual fight to them.

Here are the facebook pages of Joel Olsteen and Benny Hinn. I invite you to go there and put counter arguments on their pages. You most likely will get deleted, but the more of us that do this, the harder it will be for them to ignore debate.

 

But not just on facebook. Any media or newspaper website where ANY believer of any religion makes a post, counter their arguments with facts. We wont make religion go away, but when it ignores facts and when it poisons minds and fleeces people out of money, only facts and reason can keep these people on a leash.

https://www.facebook.com/BennyHinnMinistries

https://www.facebook.com/JoelOsteen?rf=106009516105438

And just for shits and giggles, here is Banana man's farcebook page.

https://www.facebook.com/official.Ray.Comfort

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I'd just like to say that

I'd just like to say that Utopia's are a matter of opinion.


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digitalbeachbum wrote:I'd

digitalbeachbum wrote:

I'd just like to say that Utopia's are a matter of opinion.

 

No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist.

 

The point of doing this is to demonstrate first and most importantly is not for the theist, but for other atheists, who might be afraid of being open, and or someone who has doubts but hasn't seen a first hand challenge and may simply quietly go through the motions of belief because "thats what people do". I know with my sister she always had nagging cracks but didn't let go over night.

 

Secondly it puts these goons on notice. They might be able to swat one of us, but not all of us.

 

And again, not just at those three websites, but anywhere a religious or political pundit might offer up a story or opinion on a tv show or in a newspaper or on the web.

 

The point isn't a sudden atheist utopia as a goal, but to force society to face the fact and accept the fact that we are a very normal part of human existence.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:...but to

Brian37 wrote:
...but to force society to face the fact and accept the fact that we are a very normal part of human existence.

 

 

                              Here's a "fact" for you, I don't need my atheism validated by society ( like you do ) nor do I crave their acceptance.  Fuck the world.

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
...but to force society to face the fact and accept the fact that we are a very normal part of human existence.

 

 

                              Here's a "fact" for you, I don't need my atheism validated by society ( like you do ) nor do I crave their acceptance.  Fuck the world.

 

This isn't about you.

 

 

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He he, I got banned from

He he, I got banned from that con artist Benny Hinn's facebook page. I am under no delusion that he took notice. However, whatever minions he has on his payroll did. I do encourage all atheists reading this to post there. You will get banned. But if enough of us go there they will have to debate atheists or they will like cowards have to shut down the page.

 

Come on Benny, even Ray Comfort had the balls to debate atheists.

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"No they are not a mater of

"No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist."

Wrong. The term 'utopia' is purely subjective to the opinion of the individual. If I deem the current state of affairs to be utopian, then we live in my definition of utopia. You have to get off this utopia bullshit.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Brian37 wrote:        

Brian37 wrote:

                             

 

 

This isn't about you.

 

 

 

                                  Correct, it's all about you ...

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Vastet wrote:"No they are

Vastet wrote:
"No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist." Wrong. The term 'utopia' is purely subjective to the opinion of the individual. If I deem the current state of affairs to be utopian, then we live in my definition of utopia. You have to get off this utopia bullshit.

 

precisely.  i'm getting sick of his black-and-white, all-or-nothing, us-and-them, good guys/bad guys demagoguery.  i had enough of that shit in the evangelical world and i'm disappointed to find it here.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

                             

 

 

This isn't about you.

 

 

 

                                  Correct, it's all about you ...

So was Brian, the owner of this site seeking attention solely for himself when he debated on Nightline? What about Dawkins and Hitchens?

So only rich famous people are allowed to speak out about things that are important to them?

 

I really dont give one flying fuck what anyone thinks about the amount I post. Not liking the amount I post or the tactics I employ does not constitute me bowing to you because you don't like it. Get over yourself.

 

If you think you can do a better job, then do so. But being an armchair quarterback doesn't mean shit to me.

 

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iwbiek wrote:Vastet

iwbiek wrote:

Vastet wrote:
"No they are not a mater of opinion, they will never exist, even for atheists. Utopias don't exist." Wrong. The term 'utopia' is purely subjective to the opinion of the individual. If I deem the current state of affairs to be utopian, then we live in my definition of utopia. You have to get off this utopia bullshit.

 

precisely.  i'm getting sick of his black-and-white, all-or-nothing, us-and-them, good guys/bad guys demagoguery.  i had enough of that shit in the evangelical world and i'm disappointed to find it here.

Hitchens called religion POISON, but I guess since he was famous, then it was ok.

Tell Ayaan she should shut up and not right books about how women in Islam are treated.

Tell the gays in North Carolina where they cant get married that religion doesn't affect them.

Tell the family members of the abortion doctor murdered IN THE CHURCH, that religion doesn't affect them.

 

I have been personally affected and my younger sister affected by the ignorance and credulity of religion. I am under no delusion that it will completely go away. But I am damned sure going to spend my life making sure it doesn't gain a monopoly over me or dumb down science.

Again, if you don't like how I do things , that is fine. If you think you can do a better job, then do it.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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And please tell especially

And please tell especially all those young atheists who live in a prison in their own homes who have theistic parents that religion doesn't affect them.

I offend religion because it needs offending, not because I hate all the people who buy into it. Just like I would hate it if  you went around claiming the Yankees won the Superbowl. I find it sad that my own CATHOLIC mother understands me better than you.

 

 

 

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oh for christ's fucking

oh for christ's fucking sake, more demagoguery, more emotionalism, more anecdotal hysteria.  that's why, when i joined this site waaay back in the mists of '08, i asked if it had more to do with promoting rationalism or atheism, because the two do not of necessity go hand in hand (obviously).

and i DO do my fucking work, my way.  i teach my students to be critical thinkers above all else, in the hopes that the next generation will be a little better than this one.  since, in my little neck of central europe, i teach in one of the most prestigious grammar schools in the country, and thus many of my students will be powerful and successful one day (in slovakia, at least), it's a good chance i am having at least a small direct effect on this country's future.  and since, as an avid and deep reader of world history, i know that human patterns of behavior change VEEERY SLOOOOWLY, and that being a shrill demagogue trying to change the world overnight usually does more harm than good in the long run, i honestly think i'm doing my work well.

Brian37 wrote:

I find it sad that my own CATHOLIC mother understands me better than you.

 

 

christ, why?  let's take a second to look at that statement.  you're talking about your mother versus a total stranger, for christ's sake!  why is that sad?  is it because she's catholic?  do you really think both of us being atheist is supposed to give us some automatic, unspoken connection?  is your self-identity based primarily on your atheism???  is it based on anything else at all???

because i find it infinitely sadder that you're shocked your own fucking mother understands you better than a stranger over the internet...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:oh for christ's

iwbiek wrote:

oh for christ's fucking sake, more demagoguery, more emotionalism, more anecdotal hysteria.  that's why, when i joined this site waaay back in the mists of '08, i asked if it had more to do with promoting rationalism or atheism, because the two do not of necessity go hand in hand (obviously).

and i DO do my fucking work, my way.  i teach my students to be critical thinkers above all else, in the hopes that the next generation will be a little better than this one.  since, in my little neck of central europe, i teach in one of the most prestigious grammar schools in the country, and thus many of my students will be powerful and successful one day (in slovakia, at least), it's a good chance i am having at least a small direct effect on this country's future.  and since, as an avid and deep reader of world history, i know that human patterns of behavior change VEEERY SLOOOOWLY, and that being a shrill demagogue trying to change the world overnight usually does more harm than good in the long run, i honestly think i'm doing my work well.

Brian37 wrote:

I find it sad that my own CATHOLIC mother understands me better than you.

 

 

christ, why?  let's take a second to look at that statement.  you're talking about your mother versus a total stranger, for christ's sake!  why is that sad?  is it because she's catholic?  do you really think both of us being atheist is supposed to give us some automatic, unspoken connection?  is your self-identity based primarily on your atheism???  is it based on anything else at all???

because i find it infinitely sadder that you're shocked your own fucking mother understands you better than a stranger over the internet...

No it is not. "Atheist" by itself without cussing or blasphemy is seen as evil. Penn cusses throughout his book so you need to go after him too. You need to go after Hitchens too, who unlike Penn never cusses in his books. You need to go after Dawkins too. They get demonized even without cussing.

I find it sad you are more concerned about me than what is done in the name of religion. Get your priorities in order.

Again, quit your bitching, jump in and do your own thing, but complaining about me is simply complaining.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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"Hitchens called religion

"Hitchens called religion POISON, but I guess since he was famous, then it was ok."

I guess your memory is failing you. I told you already that Hitchens was dead wrong on a number of issues. I don't care what your name is or what you've done; if you're wrong I'll call you out.

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Vastet wrote:"Hitchens

Vastet wrote:
"Hitchens called religion POISON, but I guess since he was famous, then it was ok." I guess your memory is failing you. I told you already that Hitchens was dead wrong on a number of issues. I don't care what your name is or what you've done; if you're wrong I'll call you out.

 

Yes it was our imagination that the Dark Ages happened. Witch hunts, 9/11, slavery sexism homophobia. None of those things happened because nobody read a holy book and justified harm to other humans because there are no holy books.

Where you are wrong is that HE and I are right. We don't deny that there are good people in religion, but religion IS poison. It divides humans and only a dead person or delusional person cannot see that.

 

Penn, on the issue of religion has his version "Don't hate the faithful, hate faith itself"

 

Harris as well has taken aim at liberals and moderates saying they lend cover to the nuts because of people like you who ignore the dark side of religion. If you don't ignore it, then you should not have a problem with people who rightfully call it what it is. It is "poison" in an intellectually lazy sense. It teaches people to swallow first, and far too many, even if not all, defend to the death claims they have no evidence for. 

Now you are nuts, to think because we call it poison, that we hate all people who buy into a religion. I am perfectly capable of loving and liking people who make claims I find absurd and even dangerous. But I won't sugar coat what I think of their claims simply to placate their insecurities.

Now, having had someone try to have me fired not for cussing or blasphemy, but merely for seeing A WORD. I really don't need you to lecture me about how to battle this. I also don't need you to lecture me knowing the pain it has caused my younger sister. I've had it tame. But people of ALL religions are harmed and harm others in the name of religion. To deny this is a disservice to humanity as a whole.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Penn cusses

Brian37 wrote:

Penn cusses throughout his book so you need to go after him too. You need to go after Hitchens too, who unlike Penn never cusses in his books. You need to go after Dawkins too. They get demonized even without cussing.

i barely know who those fucking people are.

and obviously i have no motherfucking problem with fucking cussing.  what i have a problem with hysteria.  i'm not sure if dawkins or penn peddle it, but i'm sure you do, which is why i'm talking to you.

Brian37 wrote:

I find it sad you are more concerned about me than what is done in the name of religion. Get your priorities in order.

seriously?  you're talkin' to a guy with a wife and a toddler, a house and property requiring constant maintenance, 3 jobs, 2 bands, and who's going back to school to get his master's.  i've successfully balanced all this for 2 years and i get on here only when what little free time i have permits.  i'm not saying all this to brag, but only to demonstrate that prioritizing is something i'm damn good at.

Brian37 wrote:

 

Again, quit your bitching, jump in and do your own thing, but complaining about me is simply complaining.

 

and once again, the single biggest bitcher i've ever encountered on the internet (and that's saying a lot) is telling someone else to quit bitching.

I TOLD YOU, IN VERY SPECIFIC TERMS, HOW I DO "MY THING."  NOW, LET ME ASK YOU.........IS THERE SOME OTHER MOTHERFUCKING THING YOU DO TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BESIDES COMING ON HERE EVERY DAY AND VENTING YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SPLEEN AFTER ARGUING--BITCHING, LET'S CALL IT--TO ALL YOUR COWORKERS AND FAMILY MEMBERS DAY AFTER DAY???

I.

FUCKING.

TEACH.

and more than a few students over the years have told me i've inspired them in some way.  what the fuck do you do?

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Penn cusses throughout his book so you need to go after him too. You need to go after Hitchens too, who unlike Penn never cusses in his books. You need to go after Dawkins too. They get demonized even without cussing.

i barely know who those fucking people are.

and obviously i have no motherfucking problem with fucking cussing.  what i have a problem with hysteria.  i'm not sure if dawkins or penn peddle it, but i'm sure you do, which is why i'm talking to you.

Brian37 wrote:

I find it sad you are more concerned about me than what is done in the name of religion. Get your priorities in order.

seriously?  you're talkin' to a guy with a wife and a toddler, a house and property requiring constant maintenance, 3 jobs, 2 bands, and who's going back to school to get his master's.  i've successfully balanced all this for 2 years and i get on here only when what little free time i have permits.  i'm not saying all this to brag, but only to demonstrate that prioritizing is something i'm damn good at.

Brian37 wrote:

 

Again, quit your bitching, jump in and do your own thing, but complaining about me is simply complaining.

 

and once again, the single biggest bitcher i've ever encountered on the internet (and that's saying a lot) is telling someone else to quit bitching.

I TOLD YOU, IN VERY SPECIFIC TERMS, HOW I DO "MY THING."  NOW, LET ME ASK YOU.........IS THERE SOME OTHER MOTHERFUCKING THING YOU DO TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE BESIDES COMING ON HERE EVERY DAY AND VENTING YOUR MOTHERFUCKING SPLEEN AFTER ARGUING--BITCHING, LET'S CALL IT--TO ALL YOUR COWORKERS AND FAMILY MEMBERS DAY AFTER DAY???

I.

FUCKING.

TEACH.

and more than a few students over the years have told me i've inspired them in some way.  what the fuck do you do?

 

"Make the world a better place" translation, "do it my way".

You are making this a competition, not me. Glad you inspired someone. I inspired my sister to be less afraid of being open. I got notice from another facebook user a couple of weeks ago that they knew another atheist teen isolated in a fundy home. I sent several people over to her page to allow her to feel less lonely. Notice how I gave credit to another person who started it?

Outside this issue I take my mother out to shop and to her doctors appointments. And at work I do tons of stuff I am not asked to do to make my co workers jobs easier. I have given my friends money without expecting it back, and lent them my vehicle. I have also donated money to charity. But I guess you expect everyone to do it to the extent of say Bill Gates?

I am not doing anything wrong simply because you don't like the way I do it or the amount I do it.

And in regards to those "people you barely know"

Quote:
i barely know who those fucking people are.

I educated myself by reading their books, but I guess I wasted my time because reading doesn't do anything but make people think. And constantly when theists make arguments over the years I direct them to those books, as well as atheists who are newbies. I direct them here and to other atheist websites. But since I am not working 80 hours a week I cant be considered useful.

 

Project much?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Quote:seriously?  you're

Quote:
seriously?  you're talkin' to a guy with a wife and a toddler, a house and property requiring constant maintenance, 3 jobs,

So now I am responsible for the choices you made? Or is it that you project your own wishes on others just like theists project gods on us?

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Brian37 wrote: I educated

Brian37 wrote:

 

I educated myself by reading their books, but I guess I wasted my time because reading doesn't do anything but make people think. 

do you really want to go down this road with me?  i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins--the same kind of sorry i haven't read max fucking lucado.  i guess i've just been too busy with wittgenstein, kafka, hannah arendt, karl popper, surendranath dasgupta, sarvepalli radhakrishnan, thomas mann, vaclav havel, milan simecka, hans kung, max weber, marx, sidney hook, etc., etc.--you know, people who never had the chance to appear on prime time news because they were too busy running from the gestapo, or the prussian secret police, or smuggling samizdat from behind the iron curtain.  no way those guys could make anybody think.  we need hitchens or dawkins.

yeah, i'm totally not into reading.  especially since i all i read are a bunch of retarded thinkers from throughout history whose basic message seems to be, "hey, the individual is the only reality, not the ideology, so we should never just lump shit together and say, 'this is better' or 'this is worse.'  we should just look at individuals and say 'this guy was a dick' or 'this guy was ok,' and not even give a fuck if they believed in a god or not."

yeah, why bother with that shit...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote: So now I am

Brian37 wrote:

 

So now I am responsible for the choices you made? Or is it that you project your own wishes on others just like theists project gods on us?

what???

dude, do you even read shit all the way through?  be honest!

i fucking love my life, but what did i say?  why did i say i bothered to mention all that stuff?

TO.  LET.  YOU.  KNOW.  I.  KNOW.  HOW.  TO.  PRIORITIZE.

fuck, i'm starting to feel like i'm in the classroom...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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"Yes it was our imagination

"Yes it was our imagination that the Dark Ages happened. Witch hunts, 9/11, slavery sexism homophobia. None of those things happened because nobody read a holy book and justified harm to other humans because there are no holy books."

lol

"Where you are wrong is that HE and I are right. We don't deny that there are good people in religion, but religion IS poison. It divides humans and only a dead person or delusional person cannot see that."

No, you're both wrong. I'm the only one who is right. Sorry.

If you want a serious response, then you'll have to do a better job making your argument. Right now it is laughable.

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Brian37 wrote:   If you

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 

If you think you can do a better job, then do so. But being an armchair quarterback doesn't mean shit to me.

 

 

                                             Brian your very existence doesn't mean shit to me.  You're just a form of entertainment ( sort of like being  my wind-up doll )

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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

I educated myself by reading their books, but I guess I wasted my time because reading doesn't do anything but make people think. 

do you really want to go down this road with me?  i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins--the same kind of sorry i haven't read max fucking lucado.  i guess i've just been too busy with wittgenstein, kafka, hannah arendt, karl popper, surendranath dasgupta, sarvepalli radhakrishnan, thomas mann, vaclav havel, milan simecka, hans kung, max weber, marx, sidney hook, etc., etc.--you know, people who never had the chance to appear on prime time news because they were too busy running from the gestapo, or the prussian secret police, or smuggling samizdat from behind the iron curtain.  no way those guys could make anybody think.  we need hitchens or dawkins.

yeah, i'm totally not into reading.  especially since i all i read are a bunch of retarded thinkers from throughout history whose basic message seems to be, "hey, the individual is the only reality, not the ideology, so we should never just lump shit together and say, 'this is better' or 'this is worse.'  we should just look at individuals and say 'this guy was a dick' or 'this guy was ok,' and not even give a fuck if they believed in a god or not."

yeah, why bother with that shit...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
i'm sorry i haven't read richard fucking dawkins

For someone who claims to be a teacher, and as a fellow atheist, I think you do yourself a disservice by not doing so. He is a very powerful advocate for science and like me, hates our schoolbooks and schools being dumbed down by religious voters and politicians.

And since when is bitching illegal? Actually there are places where bitching is illegal, like Iran and North Korea (Nationalism their religion). Religious people don't stop at bitching, far to many even if not all DO get violent. Religious violence is in the news every single day. Religious politicians even without physical violence always try to assault the rights of others with law, and not just in Islam. My state has institutionalized bigotry through mob rule by vote denying gays the right to marry. Right winger politicians on MY DIME constantly BITCH about smaller government but hypocritically want government to control women's bodies.

So excuse me, I will bitch about it as much as I like.

FYI merely stating a fact here or anywhere else is a teaching moment and you don't have to be a teacher to pass on correct information.

For example when people claim this is a Christian Nation I can post the quotes from the Barbary Treaty article ll and even quote a educational source. Since you are a teacher and value homework, I would assume I don't need to tell you to find it yourself.

When they try to paint the founders as all fundies I can point to Jefferson and even Adams, and Washington and their personal views on religion. I cant count all the times I have done this. All verifiable facts.

 

When people try to claim creationism I tell them by chemical makeup what DNA is. Then I ask them if they are willing to accept DNA in a murder trial. Then I say if you are willing to accept DNA in that context then you cannot cherry pick it when it clearly debunks creationism.

Now again, don't pull this brinkmanship crap with me. This is not a competition.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 

If you think you can do a better job, then do so. But being an armchair quarterback doesn't mean shit to me.

 

 

                                             Brian your very existence doesn't mean shit to me.  You're just a form of entertainment ( sort of like being  my wind-up doll )

It means enough to you to respond to me.  But hey, I don't mind being your "entertainment". Your getting something out of it, and so am I.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Vastet wrote:"Yes it was our

Vastet wrote:
"Yes it was our imagination that the Dark Ages happened. Witch hunts, 9/11, slavery sexism homophobia. None of those things happened because nobody read a holy book and justified harm to other humans because there are no holy books." lol "Where you are wrong is that HE and I are right. We don't deny that there are good people in religion, but religion IS poison. It divides humans and only a dead person or delusional person cannot see that." No, you're both wrong. I'm the only one who is right. Sorry. If you want a serious response, then you'll have to do a better job making your argument. Right now it is laughable.

 

So sharia law is laughable? Slavery was laughable? Child brides in LDS is laughable? Rape in India is laughable?

When you pick up a horribly written book(which all books of myth are) with no reflection of human psychology or biological science in it and delude yourself into thinking those are facts and spread those memes to other humans who in turn do the same, then take that horribly written book with which contains no working knowledge of human psychology or evolutionary science  in it and interpret those clearly myths to the point of justifying harm to other humans, what would you call that? The last thing I would call it is "laughable".

Religion IS poison, not because all religious people are bad, it is poison because it starts from the position of credulity and relies on mere "faith" without the pragmatic tool of testing.  Nowhere did Hitchens say, nor will I ever say that you can rid humanity from this evolutionary side affect. Even Dawkins recognizes this flaw in our evolution as "The moth mistaking the lightbulb for moonlight". Religion is basically a neurological missfire, due to our evolutionary trait of having to seek patterns to gain resources but most of the time not having enough time to reason to insure.

We are animals just like other species and are genetically related to all primates and all mammals. So that survival mode is in all of us. Religion can create safety in size and numbers, but it is merely a placebo. Just like ants group together, follow the leader and are successful sometimes, but don't have the reasoning skills and can end up in a dry river bed just before a monsoon and  get wiped out as a result. It is worse for humans because we do have reasoning skills, but don't use them. And like most humans, they get raised in a religion and sold it BEFORE they have any chance to question it.

What is sad, is that you give religious nuts cover, as do moderates, by "laughing" at what people do in the name of religion.

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

So now I am responsible for the choices you made? Or is it that you project your own wishes on others just like theists project gods on us?

what???

dude, do you even read shit all the way through?  be honest!

i fucking love my life, but what did i say?  why did i say i bothered to mention all that stuff?

TO.  LET.  YOU.  KNOW.  I.  KNOW.  HOW.  TO.  PRIORITIZE.

fuck, i'm starting to feel like i'm in the classroom...

Where did I say you didn't love your life? No, you have different priorities, not wrong, just different. Life is not a script , it is a range.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Holy shit, iwbiek found his

Holy shit, iwbiek found his caps lock.


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Holy shit, iwbiek found his

Holy shit, iwbiek found his caps lock.


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Brian37 wrote:So sharia law

Brian37 wrote:
So sharia law is laughable? Slavery was laughable? Child brides in LDS is laughable? Rape in India is laughable?

No, YOU are laughable. Religion is NOT poison. It is part of who we are as a species. Part of our evolutionary makeup. It is an idea, and ideas are only poison to fascists. Are you a fascist?
Religious people are often poisonous, but then one doesn't have to believe in a diety to be an asshole.
The problems with religion can be eliminated without actually eliminating religion. Which is good, because eliminating religion will never happen.

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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
So sharia law is laughable? Slavery was laughable? Child brides in LDS is laughable? Rape in India is laughable?
No, YOU are laughable. Religion is NOT poison. It is part of who we are as a species. Part of our evolutionary makeup. It is an idea, and ideas are only poison to fascists. Are you a fascist? Religious people are often poisonous, but then one doesn't have to believe in a diety to be an asshole. The problems with religion can be eliminated without actually eliminating religion. Which is good, because eliminating religion will never happen.

Slavery was also who we were at one time, doesn't mean it was good for us. Cancer is also naturally occurring too, doesn't mean we want it affecting us.

It is poison because of a FLAW in our evolution. We are not born with the drive for scientific knowledge as our primary goal. We evolved to survive. Our survival does not depend on scientific knowledge. Most of our 500,000 years of evolution has been in ignorance of the reality of nature.

 

Ignorance is poison and religion starts by putting the cart before the horse.

 

Credulity and gullibility are part of our evolution, yes, but saying it is good for us is patiently stupid.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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I also refer to religion as

I also refer to religion as a weapon.

You have a kneejerk reaction to that description of poison.

Again, there are lots of things in nature that happen and are observable, but just because we observe them does not mean they are good for us.

I think you also may have this stupid image in your head that because of use of that word I am implying a global attempt at genocide to rid the world of religion. NO, that is stupid and delusional, and neither Hitchens or I would suggest it.

But by use of both weapon or poison, it puts the religious on notice that they will be scrutinized and challenge and will not get a free pass when they make claims without evidence, or pass laws that oppress others. I'd say if religious people don't want that word used to describe their position, then THEY not me need to get on their own and police themselves and also be intellectually brave enough to admit when they are wrong. But since most humans in our evolutionary FLAWED history have crap put in their heads as spounges before they can even form adult logic, the only description I can call our natural flaw is "poison."

 

The good aspect of our species on top of having that poison as part of our evolution is we can and often do overcome it, and while our species will never fully be cured of it, it can produce MORE civility and less harm, and more educated and compassionate society.

You coddle their insecurities by telling them "faith" is ok. It may get them through the day, but it also allows them to ignore the harm religion does. "faith" is natural, but it is also deadly.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:Slavery was

Brian37 wrote:
Slavery was also who we were at one time,

Nope.

Brian37 wrote:
Cancer is also naturally occurring too, doesn't mean we want it affecting us.

Something needs to keep the population in check. Cancer does good things.

Brian37 wrote:
It is poison because of a FLAW in our evolution.

It is NOT a poison, and evolution doesn't have flaws. You must be a theist in disguise, assuming that evolution is gods plan and that it has goals.

Brian37 wrote:
Ignorance is poison and religion starts by putting the cart before the horse.

Wrong again. Ignorance is bliss. And religion is no more a poison than you are. Probably less actually.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
Slavery was also who we were at one time,
Nope.
Brian37 wrote:
Cancer is also naturally occurring too, doesn't mean we want it affecting us.
Something needs to keep the population in check. Cancer does good things.
Brian37 wrote:
It is poison because of a FLAW in our evolution.
It is NOT a poison, and evolution doesn't have flaws. You must be a theist in disguise, assuming that evolution is gods plan and that it has goals.
Brian37 wrote:
Ignorance is poison and religion starts by putting the cart before the horse.
Wrong again. Ignorance is bliss. And religion is no more a poison than you are. Probably less actually.

 

Wow, so we need ignorance and stupid people?

I think you missed the part where I said just because something is natural doesn't mean we want it affecting us. Cancer is good? Ok, when you get it don't get any medical attention, just die because cancer provides that good benefit of gene variation.

Ignorance is bliss? I really hope that will be the only time in my life I ever see an atheist say such a stupid thing.

 

Really? Then you should be mad at yourself for getting an education at all. If humans always remained ignorant you wouldn't have a computer to type this tripe on.

 

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Volcanos do good things too,

Volcanos do good things too, they make land and provide nutrients for plants, but only a fool would not study them and learn how to get the fuck out of the way when they explode.

Placebos are good in nature, in that they provide safety in numbers. The ancient Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years centered around the false belief that the sun was a god. Now why is it good that they believed that for so long? Imagine how much further along humanity might have gotten if they had actually worked on trying to figure out what it was in reality instead of concocting a myth to placate their own selfish narcissism.

Placebos also do harm and are poison, which is why I said you'll never completely get rid of them. But to ignore the harm they do is fucking stupid and retards human progress.

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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(No Subject) --

(No Subject)  --

 

   Nu. 25 -- See :: Uploaded Image, I uploaded.

 


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Brian37 wrote: You coddle

Brian37 wrote:

 

You coddle their insecurities by telling them "faith" is ok. It may get them through the day, but it also allows them to ignore the harm religion does. "faith" is natural, but it is also deadly.

 

 

 

for some people it is fucking ok, for some it's not.  that's everybody's point.  what we all object to is your dogmatic approach and your absolutist statements.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote: What is sad,

Brian37 wrote:

 

What is sad, is that you give religious nuts cover, as do moderates, by "laughing" at what people do in the name of religion.

 

 

 

how do you know it's precisely moderates who give extremists "cover"?  how?  you can give that as your opinion, but it's nonfalsifiable so therefore you can't just trumpet it as a fact, or even a hypothesis for that matter, because there is no conceivable way to test it.

i know enough about dawkins to know his endless parroting of this assertion annoys me every bit as much as your endless parroting of it.  the difference is that dawkins is a scientist, so one would expect him to know better.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Vastet wrote: ... Religion

Vastet wrote:
... Religion is NOT poison. It is part of who we are as a species. Part of our evolutionary makeup. It is an idea, and ideas are only poison to fascists. Are you a fascist? Religious people are often poisonous, but then one doesn't have to believe in a diety to be an asshole. The problems with religion can be eliminated without actually eliminating religion. Which is good, because eliminating religion will never happen.

 

                                                                                Vastet you're really mellowing in your old age

 

 

                                                      (  and I agree with your assessment )

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Brian37 wrote: So excuse

Brian37 wrote:

 

So excuse me, I will bitch about it as much as I like.

 

dude, you're the one who told me to quit bitching.  do i really need to quote you?  or is bitching ok only when someone does it about religion or republicans?

btw, i'm still waiting for you to explain to me why it's sad that the woman who gave birth to you and has known you since day one understands you better than i do.  again, if you reflect on that statement seriously for a while, you might start to understand why some of us are accusing you of consistent hyperbole.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote:Life is not a

Brian37 wrote:

Life is not a script , it is a range.

 

oh fucking jesus christ's shit on a stick, this again...you spew as many vapid proverbs as any puritan writer i've ever read.

 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:i'm still

iwbiek wrote:
i'm still waiting for you to explain to me why it's sad that the woman who gave birth to you and has known you since day one understands you better than i do. 

 

           I think you totally have Brian's number in the psychological sense, kind of like an FBI agent who profiles a wack job.  Your analysis of his hysterical, over-the -top rantings is usually spot on...

 

                                                                                       ( sorry Brian )

 

                                                    

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Brian37 wrote:Wow, so we

Brian37 wrote:
Wow, so we need ignorance and stupid people?

You've been taking lessons from EXC. How to make a strawman with every single post 101. He must be very proud.

Brian37 wrote:
Cancer is good?

Good is subjective.

Brian37 wrote:
Ok, when you get it don't get any medical attention, just die because cancer provides that good benefit of gene variation.

I have a friend with cancer. After seeing what he's gone through to stay alive, that's almost certainly the result I'd aim for.

Brian37 wrote:
Ignorance is bliss? I really hope that will be the only time in my life I ever see an atheist say such a stupid thing.

You're blissfully ignorant about a great many things, and completely unaware of how stupid you are. A perfect example.

Brian37 wrote:
Really? Then you should be mad at yourself for getting an education at all.

I am. If I hadn't educated myself so well, I wouldn't be aware of how fucked we are, and I could blissfully wander through life like you.

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Vastet wrote:You're

Vastet wrote:
You're blissfully ignorant about a great many things

yup, religion for one thing.  outside of the narrow range of bad experiences he's had, and the bad experiences reported by others he's read, he is not only blissfully but willfully ignorant of the overall history and development of the world's religions.  he calls hysterically for the end of something of which he has proved time and time again he knows the bare minimum about.  he's the king of anecdotal evidence.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Vastet wrote:Brian37

Vastet wrote:
Brian37 wrote:
Wow, so we need ignorance and stupid people?
You've been taking lessons from EXC. How to make a strawman with every single post 101. He must be very proud.
Brian37 wrote:
Cancer is good?
Good is subjective.
Brian37 wrote:
Ok, when you get it don't get any medical attention, just die because cancer provides that good benefit of gene variation.
I have a friend with cancer. After seeing what he's gone through to stay alive, that's almost certainly the result I'd aim for.
Brian37 wrote:
Ignorance is bliss? I really hope that will be the only time in my life I ever see an atheist say such a stupid thing.
You're blissfully ignorant about a great many things, and completely unaware of how stupid you are. A perfect example.
Brian37 wrote:
Really? Then you should be mad at yourself for getting an education at all.
I am. If I hadn't educated myself so well, I wouldn't be aware of how fucked we are, and I could blissfully wander through life like you.

 

Ok, you got me. It is ok for humanity to buy and sell clearly utter bullshit to the point of killing over it. Virgin births are real, Mo really did talk to god and write the Koran. Nothing bad ever came from that.

Glad we still think the earth is flat, OH WAIT, it is flat right?

Your PC attitude is quite mundane. Religion needs offending, not a free pass. I think you confuse that with oppression. Why the fuck should I keep my mouth shut because some moron goes around claiming the Yankees won the Superbowl and bases their politics and nationalism on such?

Sorry, but I am with Hitchens and Harris and Dawkins. I don't give one fuck if religious people get offended by facts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

You coddle their insecurities by telling them "faith" is ok. It may get them through the day, but it also allows them to ignore the harm religion does. "faith" is natural, but it is also deadly.

 

 

 

for some people it is fucking ok, for some it's not.  that's everybody's point.  what we all object to is your dogmatic approach and your absolutist statements.

 

If I was calling for their arrest or murder, then you could call me dogmatic. I really don't give one fuck what you chose to do or not do about superstitious morons who live in fantasy land. But don't think you have any right to tell me how to address people with such absurd beliefs.

You miss context. From a human rights standpoint, if you want to claim you are Napoleon, I'll defend your right to make that claim. But only assholes demand taboos when you face them with the fact that they are not.

Virgin births are not real. Mo did not have a cosmic bat phone talking to ALLAH when the Koran was written. All holy books are comic books. If our species never questioned social norms our species never would have left the caves.

When the next gay person is assaulted, or the next abortion clinic bombed. When the next Islamic nut blows something up, when the next Palestinian kid grows up to become a martyr because Jews murdered their parents when they were too young to stay out of adult beefs, I'll , remember all this lecturing on how important taboos are.

 

 

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ProzacDeathWish
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Brian37 wrote:... I don't

Brian37 wrote:

... I don't give one fuck if religious people get offended by facts.

 

                                     

                         Here's a fact, as soon as I am able, I'm buying my third gun safe and I intend on filling it with firearms of every description, does that offend you ?

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


harleysportster
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

                                     

                         Here's a fact, as soon as I am able, I'm buying my third gun safe and I intend on filling it with firearms of every description, does that offend you ?

Off of the topic here, but those are some interesting videos that you have in your signature Prozac.

Outside of Mississippi Queen, I do not think that I have heard of any of the rest of them.

By the way, I DO  like that avatar. Why if I didn't know better..................nevermind Smiling

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Brian37
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

... I don't give one fuck if religious people get offended by facts.

 

                                     

                         Here's a fact, as soon as I am able, I'm buying my third gun safe and I intend on filling it with firearms of every description, does that offend you ?

 I guess it is proof that delusion knows no label. Go buy your collection of penis extensions , you look as nutty as a religious doomsdayer.

What is funny is that you and your believing gun nutters think you can take on governments with tanks and jets. Good luck with that.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


ProzacDeathWish
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Brian37 wrote:   I guess

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 I guess it is proof that delusion knows no label. Go buy your collection of penis extensions , you look as nutty as a religious doomsdayer.

What is funny is that you and your believing gun nutters think you can take on governments with tanks and jets. Good luck with that.

 

                                                                                   ....more guns Brian, we just need more guns.

 

                                                                                       

Patrick is an edgy edgelord.


Beyond Saving
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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 

 

 I guess it is proof that delusion knows no label. Go buy your collection of penis extensions , you look as nutty as a religious doomsdayer.

What is funny is that you and your believing gun nutters think you can take on governments with tanks and jets. Good luck with that.

 

                                                                                   ....more and bigger guns Brian, we just need more bigger guns.

 

                                                                                       

Fixed

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X