Raiders Of The Found Kluwe

Brian37
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Raiders Of The Found Kluwe

Although the Raiders beat my Skins in a Super Bowl, this more than makes up for it.

Click on the following link, and scroll to the bottom of the page to see the KEYNOTE SPEAKER of American Atheist's next convention in SALT LAKE.

http://www.atheists.org/  like I said scroll down to the bottom of the page.

 

Pat Tillman would be proud!

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Although the

Brian37 wrote:

Although the Raiders beat my Skins in a Super Bowl, this more than makes up for it.

Holding a grudge for a few decades? 

Don't worry though, I still think of Kluwe is a Viking and most people probably always will. He is just going to be a Raider for a year or two until he retires. 

An atheist, libertarian and prominent gay rights activist going to Salt Lake City, what are the odds he outruns the lynching?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Although the Raiders beat my Skins in a Super Bowl, this more than makes up for it.

Holding a grudge for a few decades? 

Don't worry though, I still think of Kluwe is a Viking and most people probably always will. He is just going to be a Raider for a year or two until he retires. 

An atheist, libertarian and prominent gay rights activist going to Salt Lake City, what are the odds he outruns the lynching?

No I am not holding a grudge, just pointing out a historical fact. In all seriousness I DO HATE fans who cant let it go, even to the point of fist fighting. Professional sports in general has a fucking problem when fans, like in soccer murder their own players, or when stadiums have JUDGES  on call.

 

Look asshole, you know damned well I cant get everything I want. When you are not talking about starving everyone else to death, you are a halfway decent guy. I hate your economic views. My only problem with you has always been your argument of "it works" YEA for who and for how many? From your point of view I am sure it is rosy, but it sucks for anyone your ilk dominate. So please tell me how people with no money have more power than those with money?

There is no such thing as a utopia. So don't falsely accuse me of wanting everything for free when the top are the real welfare queens.

 

I like some of your views like Penn and Kluwe, but if you think "fuck you I got mine" is good economic policy, then why don't you ask the NFL union to disband and see how far you get. Good luck with that.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:I like some of

Brian37 wrote:

I like some of your views like Penn and Kluwe, but if you think "fuck you I got mine" is good economic policy, then why don't you ask the NFL union to disband and see how far you get. Good luck with that.

Why would I ask the NFL union to disband? I'm not opposed to unions. The only thing I'm against are laws requiring people to join unions even when they don't want to and laws that require employers to hire only people through unions. As long as the employer agrees to contract through a union I have no problems whatsoever. As far as I know, the NFL voluntarily agreed to contract through the union.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I like some of your views like Penn and Kluwe, but if you think "fuck you I got mine" is good economic policy, then why don't you ask the NFL union to disband and see how far you get. Good luck with that.

Why would I ask the NFL union to disband? I'm not opposed to unions. The only thing I'm against are laws requiring people to join unions even when they don't want to and laws that require employers to hire only people through unions. As long as the employer agrees to contract through a union I have no problems whatsoever. As far as I know, the NFL voluntarily agreed to contract through the union.  

BULLSHIT, that sounds nice when everyone plays fair, but again, who do you think has more power, the worker or the owner? Don't try to blow smoke up my ass and claim that all business plays fair. Teddy Roosevelt would bitch slap you, and he was a REPUBLICAN.

If it is about choice then you should be pro choice yourself and if there is a requirement for a union to have a job, then DONT APPLY FOR THAT JOB! It cuts both ways asshole!

Dont fucking lie to me and tell me you favor unions. You favor what benefits your bottom line.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Teddy

Brian37 wrote:
Teddy Roosevelt would bitch slap you, and he was a REPUBLICAN.

That's quite a claim. If he were alive today the GOP would not support him.

 


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You cant have it both ways.

You cant have it both ways. If you are for voting, and the right to peaceably assemble, and that WE make our laws, then you cant advocate bans on unions. When you talk about "voluntary" that is a ruse, what you really mean is "when I get what I want". If it is a mix economy then both voluntary unions and mandatory unions will exist at the same time.  Our middle class was a result of unions. Something you shit on every fucking day.

 

For choice to exist it cannot be no unions are all unions BUT BOTH. I think you are merely afraid of having to treat your workers like humans and not tools.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37 wrote:BULLSHIT, that

Brian37 wrote:

BULLSHIT, that sounds nice when everyone plays fair, but again, who do you think has more power, the worker or the owner?

Depends on the situation and which person has more leverage. It is absurd to pretend that all situations are the same.

 

Brian37 wrote:

Don't try to blow smoke up my ass and claim that all business plays fair. Teddy Roosevelt would bitch slap you, and he was a REPUBLICAN.

What does "fair" have to do with it? Life isn't fair. There are a lot of REPUBLICANS who would love to bitch slap me and some of them are still alive so they could actually do so. Is that supposed to be relevant to me in any way? 

 

Brian37 wrote:

If it is about choice then you should be pro choice yourself and if there is a requirement for a union to have a job, then DONT APPLY FOR THAT JOB! It cuts both ways asshole!

As long as the requirement comes from a voluntary contract between the employer and the union I have no problem with it. Like I said, my only problem is when the government passes a law requiring it and as far as I know the contract in the NFL is completely voluntary.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

Dont fucking lie to me and tell me you favor unions. You favor what benefits your bottom line.

Why would I lie about my political positions? Do you think I am afraid you might not agree with them? lol. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Brian37 wrote:
Teddy Roosevelt would bitch slap you, and he was a REPUBLICAN.

That's quite a claim. If he were alive today the GOP would not support him.

 

 

 

                    You can bet your  'Bullmoose'  'Big stick'  swingin'  progressive attitude on that!!!  BULLY!   Teddy was the last of the progressive future thinking Lincoln republicans.  He expanded big government,  the FDA &  Commerce Dept. and trust busting were his idea. Todays GOP would hate that;  BUT!!!!   Teddy also sent the U.S. "great white fleet" around the world just to show off. He landed Marines were ever he wanted when he wanted, created Panama out of souvreign Columbian territory just because both Nicaraugua & Columbia said they had no interest in a canal, Teddy did, thus enters the Marines.  Teddy also carried a six-shooter at all times.  The GOP would have loved that.

 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

VEGETARIAN: Ancient Hindu word for "lousy hunter"

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Brian37 wrote:You cant have

Brian37 wrote:

You cant have it both ways. If you are for voting, and the right to peaceably assemble, and that WE make our laws, then you cant advocate bans on unions.

I have never in my life advocated banning unions. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

When you talk about "voluntary" that is a ruse, what you really mean is "when I get what I want".

No, when I say voluntary, I mean voluntary. Why do you find it so difficult to understand that I say what I mean?

 

Brian37 wrote:

If it is a mix economy then both voluntary unions and mandatory unions will exist at the same time.

Why do we need mandatory unions? Why do you feel a need to use government to force people to join unions?

 

Brian37 wrote:

  Our middle class was a result of unions. Something you shit on every fucking day.

 

No, our middle class was the result of capitalist prosperity. Unions were a result of employees realizing that negotiating as a group could provide them more leverage than negotiating individually and used as an effective means to negotiate higher wages and better working conditions. At the end of the day, without government laws, a union is nothing more than a group of employees all agreeing to accept the same contract and that if the employer rejects the contract, they will all walk out together. The idea being that any one employee not working is not a big deal, but all the employees not working at the same time is. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

For choice to exist it cannot be no unions are all unions BUT BOTH. I think you are merely afraid of having to treat your workers like humans and not tools.

Yes, and I believe that choice should exist. No doubt there will be some corporations like the NFL which will have unions and other corporations like Walmart that don't. That is exactly how it should be. What is so fucking complicated about believing that the government should not pass laws to encourage or discourage unions? The government should not be involved. Whether or not there is a union is between the employees of a company and the employer. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Ok, outside my beef with

Ok, outside my beef with Beyond I do need to follow up my OP with a correction. According to this NBC SPORTS article KLUWE calls himself an agnostic.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/08/07/chris-kluwe-to-speak-at-american-atheists-convention/

Well I did assume but wouldn't it be a safe assumption for an Atheist to speak at an atheist convention?

However

Ok, according to NBC sports Kluwe calls himself an "agnostic". DAMN IT, I hate that. If I could talk to him I'd tell him that you can be an agnostic atheist, or an agnostic theist, but you cannot be simply a "agnostic" since that is a qualifying word which means nothing unless it is in front of theist or atheist.

theist and or atheist are the current position "agnostic" is the room for the future. My bet is Kluwe is an atheist but doesn't like the word "atheist" because of the stigma attached to it.


 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I like some of your views like Penn and Kluwe, but if you think "fuck you I got mine" is good economic policy, then why don't you ask the NFL union to disband and see how far you get. Good luck with that.

Why would I ask the NFL union to disband? I'm not opposed to unions. The only thing I'm against are laws requiring people to join unions even when they don't want to and laws that require employers to hire only people through unions. As long as the employer agrees to contract through a union I have no problems whatsoever. As far as I know, the NFL voluntarily agreed to contract through the union.  

Why not? Don't hand me this dog and pony show. You are the "competition" advocate, so without unions you could get people to compete for lower pay. Don't tell me labor isn't your biggest cost. Why not destroy even the voluntary ones?

 

See with the NFL it is voluntary because you don't have to get a job with them. Once again, your fallacious "choice" argument pretending to mimic fairness, is again predicated only on when you get what you want and when private industry sets all the rules.

So if both private and public jobs offer the same jobs, then you HAVE NO FUCKING CASE! Because the choice still exists, just like you don't have to become an NFL player, you also don't have to become a private or public school teacher.

 

You are not for choice, you are for your bottom line. You are not for your workers, you are for you.

 

You are about as pro union as Martin Luther King was pro KKK.

 

To quote a line from Star Wars, and I am sure Lucas is dirt poor, "Take care of yourself Han, I guess that is what you are best at".

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Why not? Don't

Brian37 wrote:

Why not? Don't hand me this dog and pony show. You are the "competition" advocate, so without unions you could get people to compete for lower pay. Don't tell me labor isn't your biggest cost. Why not destroy even the voluntary ones?

Because I don't believe that something should be banned simply because I don't like it. I am neither gay nor pro marriage but I think gay marriage should be legal. I hate snakes, but I think people should be able to own them as pets. My personal feelings towards any issue are completely irrelevant to whether or not I think it should be legal.

I am not a fan of unions, as an employee I thought they took advantage of productive workers and lowered their wages. I worked for a unionized company for 2 months and hated every minute of it. As an employer, I wouldn't want the headache of dealing with them. But if someone else wants to work for a union or if some company wants to contract through a union, who am I to tell them they can't?

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

See with the NFL it is voluntary because you don't have to get a job with them. Once again, your fallacious "choice" argument pretending to mimic fairness, is again predicated only on when you get what you want and when private industry sets all the rules.

So if both private and public jobs offer the same jobs, then you HAVE NO FUCKING CASE! Because the choice still exists, just like you don't have to become an NFL player, you also don't have to become a private or public school teacher.

I don't think there should be public teachers but that is a completely separate issue. As far as public unions are concerned I think it is absurd, the government is not an abusive employer under anyone's definition. Wisconsin recently made their public unions voluntary for the employees and thousands of teachers opted to leave the union (almost 50%). For years the union took their dues and used them to donate to politicians that the union members did not support. Given the choice, many of them chose to leave and are still getting the same pay, plus the bonus of not having union dues. 

http://m.jsonline.com/more/editorials/scott-walkers-actions-left-unions-reeling-b9959395z1-216523371.html

 All I am saying is give the workers a choice. In Wisconsin there were a lot of people who apparently didn't want the union, and I assume that same feeling is in a lot of other states as well. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

You are not for choice, you are for your bottom line. You are not for your workers, you are for you.

 

Of course I am. And my workers are for their bottom line. Fortunately, both of us seeking our self interest leads to a mutually beneficial financial relationship. You are also for your bottom line. If your employer stopped paying you, you would stop working you greedy sucker. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

You are about as pro union as Martin Luther King was pro KKK.

 

As far as I know, MLK did not support banning the KKK. I am also not a fan of the KKK or the Black Panthers but I do not support banning either organization. Which has been my point all along. I personally do not like unions and will never join one again nor contract through one for employees. But if other companies want them, or people want to join them I am not going to tell them they can't. Maybe unions are beneficial for some companies/employees, that is for them to decide, not me.  

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X