Every gene in your body is owned by a company through patents

Vastet
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Every gene in your body is owned by a company through patents

Mar. 25, 2013 — Humans don't "own" their own genes, the cellular chemicals that define who they are and what diseases they might be at risk for. Through more than 40,000 patents on DNA molecules, companies have essentially claimed the entire human genome for profit, report two researchers who analyzed the patents on human DNA.
Their study, published March 25 in the journal Genome Medicine, raises an alarm about the loss of individual "genomic liberty."

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130326101614.htm


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Vastet wrote:Mar. 25, 2013

Vastet wrote:
Mar. 25, 2013 — Humans don't "own" their own genes, the cellular chemicals that define who they are and what diseases they might be at risk for. Through more than 40,000 patents on DNA molecules, companies have essentially claimed the entire human genome for profit, report two researchers who analyzed the patents on human DNA. Their study, published March 25 in the journal Genome Medicine, raises an alarm about the loss of individual "genomic liberty." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130326101614.htm

Um ok, not sure what to make of this. While I do think big business in general can be abusive say like copy write on "Happy Birthday" which is absurd, not sure what you are implying on this. If I discover a new insect or new "earth like" planet, should I not get credit for it?

 

There is always a danger with new technology. Just like cars for a long time were dangerous the regulations improved their safety standards. Just like justifications for war, we do see where lack of questioning can lead, so while it is right to say keep an eye on it, DNA and stem cell technology should not be thrown completely out over any potential monopoly concerns. Anything can go off the rails when it is left to it's own devices.

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You don't get it. If the

You don't get it. If the supreme court doesn't trash this then conceivably every time a doctor does research or treats a patient he or she could be forced to pay royalties to a company that patented YOU.

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Vastet wrote:You don't get

Vastet wrote:
You don't get it. If the supreme court doesn't trash this then conceivably every time a doctor does research or treats a patient he or she could be forced to pay royalties to a company that patented YOU.

If this passes in any sense of the word, their will be a full scale riot. People will die by the millions. World War Z will look like a Saturday afternoon paint gun party.

The idea that they hold some kind of patent on human genome is fucking bullshit.

 

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote: The

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

The idea that they hold some kind of patent on human genome is fucking bullshit.

 

 

i'm pretty sure most native americans felt the same way about land ownership...

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
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 Yeah, the Supreme Court

 Yeah, the Supreme Court case is Association for Molecular Pathology vs. Myriad Genetics and is set to be argued on April 15th. 

http://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/association-for-molecular-pathology-v-myriad-genetics-inc/

It is definitely one of the cases I will be keeping an eye on. While I think it is arguable that they can patent the precise technique of DNA testing used (and the tools used in DNA testing) I think the court will rule that the actual gene itself is a product of nature and therefore cannot be patented. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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iwbiek wrote:digitalbeachbum

iwbiek wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

 

The idea that they hold some kind of patent on human genome is fucking bullshit.

 

 

i'm pretty sure most native americans felt the same way about land ownership...

Naw, they loved the white liars coming, taking their land, infecting their people with sicknesses ten fold and then forcing them in to concentration camps.

 


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But, you can always claim

But, you can always claim your parents and grandparents as 'prior art'.


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 http://www.supremecourt.gov

 http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-398_8njq.pdf

The Court finally ruled in the Myriad Genetics case and unanimously held that a company cannot patent genes in their natural state. They can patent synthetic genes they create or specific methods of testing/manipulating them, however they cannot prevent others from creating and selling other methods. It was a short and unanimous decision. 

 

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Awesome! Thanks for the

Awesome! Thanks for the update!

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Vastet wrote:You don't get

Vastet wrote:
You don't get it. If the supreme court doesn't trash this then conceivably every time a doctor does research or treats a patient he or she could be forced to pay royalties to a company that patented YOU.

Yea that is going to far, it really is as absurd as any religion acting like it owns morality.

This is bullshit, it is  basically playing word games. Evolution was around before we discovered the truth of it. It is one thing to want credit for a discovery, it is another to hoard it rather than share it.

 

This would be like the Jefferson family descendents suing for quoting him. Atoms were around long before humans understood them. I think it is ok to patient inventions. I do not think it is ok to be an asshole when it comes to something that could benefit the world.

No one patented evolution. Darwin deserves credit for bringing it to light, but none of his descendents deserve money today for what he did.

This is just more corporate greed.

 

 

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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

 http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-398_8njq.pdf

The Court finally ruled in the Myriad Genetics case and unanimously held that a company cannot patent genes in their natural state. They can patent synthetic genes they create or specific methods of testing/manipulating them, however they cannot prevent others from creating and selling other methods. It was a short and unanimous decision. 

 

Sounds like a spit decision. I am for patient rights, but I am not for them to the point that it becomes basically hoarding. If you do something, you deserve credit. But there is always a point where once what you do is out, people will want to add to or improve on what you did, not to mention after a long enough period of time, if what you do is  big enough, it becomes public property because it is part of history, not simply a local unknown who never gets noticed.

 

Quote:
however they cannot prevent others from creating and selling other methods.

 

Right, otherwise if the first person who invented pizza had absolute power  there would only be one pizza chain and all others would be subject to it's whims if we wanted pizza.

 

I am for competition, but less so in health care. Rich and poor will always get sick at some point. I don't mind getting credit for a a medicine or a procedure, but if it is about humanity, then the pay off is for humanity and if all you get is name recognition, you are a hero to all of humanity, not a greedy fuck out to make a buck.

 

Tell me, if you are as well off as you claim, what if even with what you make, if  the only doctor you could go to wanted something you could not afford? Wouldn't you want a doctor to be more concerned with life than their own greed? I'd say if you are willing to pay anything to stay well, the likes of your mindset miss the compassion that humans should have. If life is the only one we get, then health care should NOT be held hostage by profit.

 

Life is not quantified by balance sheets or ability to pay. Otherwise you'd be completely justified in genocide on all poor people in the world.

 

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Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:I am for

Brian37 wrote:

I am for competition, but less so in health care. Rich and poor will always get sick at some point. I don't mind getting credit for a a medicine or a procedure, but if it is about humanity, then the pay off is for humanity and if all you get is name recognition, you are a hero to all of humanity, not a greedy fuck out to make a buck.

Tell me, if you are as well off as you claim, what if even with what you make, if  the only doctor you could go to wanted something you could not afford? Wouldn't you want a doctor to be more concerned with life than their own greed? I'd say if you are willing to pay anything to stay well, the likes of your mindset miss the compassion that humans should have. If life is the only one we get, then health care should NOT be held hostage by profit.

 

Life is not quantified by balance sheets or ability to pay. Otherwise you'd be completely justified in genocide on all poor people in the world.

 

I want my doctor to be a greedy fuck so that they will have an invested self interest in my health. I don't expect some passing acquaintance to have a real interest in my health or life. It is simply impossible for any doctor to really care about all of their patients, it would be extremely emotionally unhealthy and probably lead to a nervous breakdown. I do expect that my doctor will have a desire to provide for their personal desires and/or provide for their family or loved ones. Doctors go to work everyday for exactly the same reasons the rest of us do. It is unfair to expect them to be somehow different simply because they do a job that saves our lives, and quite frankly, if my life is at risk I will happily give up every single penny I have to my name and go into debt.  

Greedy people seeking profit has consistently proven to lower prices and increase the standard of living across all incomes in a variety of industries. Because greedy people seeking profit inevitably attempt to lower prices to attract customers. The reason our healthcare system is such a mess is that the consumer does not play an active role in shopping for the service and does not pay the bill directly.  

I have no idea what all that has to do with this lawsuit though. The patent wasn't thrown out because it was related to the medical field or out of any concern about the cost of medical care. It was thrown out because the Justices determined that it was not an invention, but a naturally occurring phenomenon that was discovered. The law says you can patent inventions and says you cannot patent natural phenomena. That is all the further the legal reasoning has to go.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Quote:I want my doctor to be

Quote:
I want my doctor to be a greedy fuck so that they will have an invested self interest in my health.

 

HA,  sounds nice. "If I pay them they will be held accountable." HA YOU FUCKING MORON. That is a utopia and exactly how scams work. How do you think Madoff got away with what he did, idiots like you who think money is the only thing important in life. He convinced people to part with their money. Just like god believers get convinced to part with their brains.

BULLSHIT, we've butted heads for a long time. I know you hate my positions, but please do not tell me that if suddenly got hit by a car, your reaction would be "fuck him, let him die, he cant pay".

Otherwise if money is the only thing that matters in life then be consistent, if I get hit by a car say "FUCK HIM HE CANT PAY"

You know you cant do that so SHUT THE FUCK UP.

I accept that inequity  exists in business, because it is a motivator,  but I do not like bullies or monopolies and anything that does not take into account basic human decency will never gain my value.

 

Beyond, any person who is on their death bed who is solely concerned about money is a fucking worthless piece of shit. Health is something that all of us need, and cannot be subject to means. Again if means is the measure of morality and therefore survival, then murder all poor people. If you cannot do that then stop being a hypocrite and accept that health is  a human issue, not a class issue.

 

I want my doctor do care for me. I don't want them concerned about getting rich anymore than I want my cops or military or fireman doing it for money. When you pay to play that is called organized crime.

 

 

 

 

 

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Beyond your logic is fucked

Beyond your logic is fucked up and childish,

"If I just pay someone tons of money they wont take advantage of me"

Oh since money determines morality and truth all the time, can I sell you a bridge?

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Brian37 wrote:HA,  sounds

Brian37 wrote:

HA,  sounds nice. "If I pay them they will be held accountable." HA YOU FUCKING MORON. That is a utopia and exactly how scams work. How do you think Madoff got away with what he did, idiots like you who think money is the only thing important in life. He convinced people to part with their money. Just like god believers get convinced to part with their brains.

Isn't that exactly how you work? You get paid, so you do your job. If you didn't get paid, you probably wouldn't do it. Why do you expect a doctor to work for charity? It is a nice thing to do, but doctors have things that they need and want too. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

BULLSHIT, we've butted heads for a long time. I know you hate my positions, but please do not tell me that if suddenly got hit by a car, your reaction would be "fuck him, let him die, he cant pay".

No, my attitude is save his life and then send him the bill. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

Otherwise if money is the only thing that matters in life then be consistent, if I get hit by a car say "FUCK HIM HE CANT PAY"

Money is the only thing that matters when you are talking about peoples jobs. Very few people are willing and able to work without pay. I think it is rather fucked up that you expect to get paid for doing a job that isn't going to save peoples lives, but for a job that provides a service to the customer that is literally life or death you don't think they should do it for the money? I could live without you doing your job. I would literally die without my doctor. So yeah, I think my doctor deserves to be paid better than the vast majority of people I come in contact with, precisely because the service she provides to me is more important than what other people do for me. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

You know you cant do that so SHUT THE FUCK UP.

For someone who constantly says how much he hates bullies, you resort to the bullying tactic a lot. I will not shut up, no matter how many caps you throw at me. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

I accept that inequity  exists in business, because it is a motivator,  but I do not like bullies or monopolies and anything that does not take into account basic human decency will never gain my value.

See above.

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

Beyond, any person who is on their death bed who is solely concerned about money is a fucking worthless piece of shit. Health is something that all of us need, and cannot be subject to means. Again if means is the measure of morality and therefore survival, then murder all poor people. If you cannot do that then stop being a hypocrite and accept that health is  a human issue, not a class issue.

You also need food, water, shelter and clothing. All of which you pay for in a free market, and all of which people make large profits on. What makes medical care different? Or should we just completely scrap capitalism and money?

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

I want my doctor do care for me. I don't want them concerned about getting rich anymore than I want my cops or military or fireman doing it for money. When you pay to play that is called organized crime. 

Well good luck finding a doctor like that. I only see my doctor once or twice a year for a few minutes. Hardly enough time to develop any kind of real relationship. It is simply impossible for a doctor to have a real relationship with every single one of their patients, just like I'm sure you have some regular customers in your restaurant that you have developed some kind of relationship with, while many others you wouldn't recognize if you ran into them on the street. If some random customer that you didn't know have a heart attack and died would you really care? I mean, sure on some level you would feel bad about it, but people die of heart attacks every hour and it would be absurd to really care about it to the extent that you would care if one of the regulars you know really well had a heart attack. 

Now consider a doctor who is in a field where their customers often die. Depending on their specialty, some doctors see patients die every week. You simply cannot let it bother you because you would cease being capable of performing your job and saving the ones you can save. To expect someone doing that kind of job to really care about every patient like they care about their family and friends is ridiculous. It takes a special kind of person to be able to handle the psychological strain, which is why doctors tend to have really high suicide, drug abuse and divorce rates compared to other professions. So yes, it is a very difficult job psychologically, mentally and technically. I think they deserve to be very highly reimbursed for it and I have no problem with them doing it for the money. Before I have a surgery, I want my doctor sleeping in the finest egyptian cotton that money can buy.  

I also think that cops, military and firemen should be much more highly reimbursed. But that is what happens when government is controlling salaries instead of a free market. The same person in the military for example who is making less than $40,000 can make $100k-$150k working as a mercenary or private security in a war zone. A fireman who works for a greedy profit grubbing private company like Firebreak earn approximately twice as much as their government counterparts. Government loves to blow a lot of money, but so much of it goes towards things that are not needed and towards paper pushers rather than efficiently providing the service. I see no benefit in doctors becoming low paid government employees. I will take my highly paid private doctor tyvm. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Brian37 wrote:Beyond your

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond your logic is fucked up and childish,

"If I just pay someone tons of money they wont take advantage of me"

I never said that. People will always try to take advantage of you whether you are paying them or not. That is just life. Some people are not honest, get over it and take steps to protect yourself.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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In my experience the "greedy

In my experience the "greedy fuck(s)" aren't the ones most vested interests in your health. They are the ones to lose their license first, though.

“A meritocratic society is one in which inequalities of wealth and social position solely reflect the unequal distribution of merit or skills amongst human beings, or are based upon factors beyond human control, for example luck or chance. Such a society is socially just because individuals are judged not by their gender, the colour of their skin or their religion, but according to their talents and willingness to work, or on what Martin Luther King called 'the content of their character'. By extension, social equality is unjust because it treats unequal individuals equally.” "Political Ideologies" by Andrew Heywood (2003)