Arizona lawmakers propose law against atheist HS students.

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Arizona lawmakers propose law against atheist HS students.

What fucking century is this?

Arizona law makers are proposing a law that could ban atheists from graduating high school.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/01/25/arizona-republicans-propose-bill-that-would-not-allow-atheists-to-graduate...

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OK.  No matter how fucked

OK.  No matter how fucked up Arizona is... this will never withstand the Supreme Court. No fucking way.

As the article says,

To quote Comedy Central’s Ilya Gerner: “Nothing says ‘I take this obligation freely’ quite like a state law that withholds your diploma unless you swear an oath.”

LOL. What a fucked up idea. I mean seriously. These people in office are fucking douches.

 


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Did you see the link below

Did you see the link below about Michigan?

www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/11/05/michigan-senate-says-its-ok-to-bully-if-its-in-the-name-of-jesus/

Fuckers.

It's ok to bully if it is your religious belief.

This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian.

WTF? I mean seriously? Are these people that fucked up?

 

 


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It most likely wont pass but

It most likely wont pass but any and all living in the states who might read this need to contact their  representitives and demand they drop it.

The Constitution does not contain the words "So help me god". That part is strictly voluntary not mandatory and the oath of office article for requirements say "NO RELIGIOUS TEST".

 

 

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as a high school teacher,

as a high school teacher, nothing infuriates me more than when politicians use the students to fight ideological battles.  the worst part is, the students can smell it a mile away.  they're not dumb.  they know when they're being used.

this is why i would never teach in the united states.  here in slovakia, i actually teach at a lutheran high school, and while openly saying i'm an atheist or ridiculing christianity in the classroom would probably put my job in jeopardy, i do freely tell my students i'm not religious and i encourage them to question their beliefs.  sometimes i even ask the tough questions myself, i've never worried about my job because of it, and the students respect me for it.  but i know that doing even that much in a supposedly secular public school in america would land me in hot water. 

fuck american schools, seriously.  i still get angry when i remember how my biology had to wear kid gloves when teaching evolution because some redneck pentecostal bitch in a long denim skirt kept interrupting to insist "she didn't come from no monkey."  if the world was as it should be, that teacher should have been able to say, "if you don't stop interrupting my class with nonsense, i'm sending you to the office."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving
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digitalbeachbum wrote:Did

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Did you see the link below about Michigan?

www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/11/05/michigan-senate-says-its-ok-to-bully-if-its-in-the-name-of-jesus/

Fuckers.

It's ok to bully if it is your religious belief.

This section does not prohibit a statement of a sincerely held religious belief or moral conviction of a school employee, school volunteer, pupil, or a pupil and parent or guardian.

WTF? I mean seriously? Are these people that fucked up?

 

 

All I have learned is that patheos is not a reliable interpreter of laws. Read the law for yourself 

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/documents/2011-2012/billengrossed/Senate/pdf/2011-SEBS-0137.pdf that statement has nothing to do with making it "ok" to bully someone because of your religious belief. It is specifically there to protect free speech and specifically mentions the First Amendment. It is standard legal language for any law that is regulating speech- which since most bullying occurs through speech, this law is regulating speech and thus First Amendment conflict issues can arise. Including that disclaimer prevents a court from throwing out the whole law if the application of the law is found to violate someones free speech rights.

 

Quote:

(Cool THIS SECTION DOES NOT ABRIDGE THE RIGHTS UNDER THE FIRST

26 AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OR UNDER ARTICLE

27 I OF THE STATE CONSTITUTION OF 1963 OF A SCHOOL EMPLOYEE, SCHOOL

6

S00412'11 (S-4) TAV

VOLUNTEER, PUPIL, OR A PUPIL'S 1 PARENT OR GUARDIAN. THIS SECTION

2 DOES NOT PROHIBIT A STATEMENT OF A SINCERELY HELD RELIGIOUS BELIEF

3 OR MORAL CONVICTION OF A SCHOOL EMPLOYEE, SCHOOL VOLUNTEER, PUPIL,

4 OR A PUPIL'S PARENT OR GUARDIAN. 

And given the broad definition of bullying in the law, it is quite possible that someone might accuse someone simply stating their religious beliefs as "bullying". How many times have we been accused of being bullies on this site for saying there is no god and asking for evidence?

 

Quote:

20 (B) "BULLYING" MEANS ANY WRITTEN, VERBAL, OR PHYSICAL ACT, OR

21 ANY ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION, BY A PUPIL DIRECTED AT 1 OR MORE

22 OTHER PUPILS THAT IS INTENDED OR THAT A REASONABLE PERSON WOULD

23 KNOW IS LIKELY TO HARM 1 OR MORE PUPILS EITHER DIRECTLY OR

24 INDIRECTLY BY DOING ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

25 (i) SUBSTANTIALLY INTERFERING WITH EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITIES,

26 BENEFITS, OR PROGRAMS OF 1 OR MORE PUPILS.

27 (ii) SUBSTANTIALLY AND ADVERSELY AFFECTING THE ABILITY OF A

7

S00412'11 (S-4) Final Page TAV

PUPIL TO PARTICIPATE IN OR BENEFIT 1 FROM THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S OR

2 PUBLIC SCHOOL'S EDUCATIONAL PROGRAMS OR ACTIVITIES BY PLACING THE

3 PUPIL IN REASONABLE FEAR OF PHYSICAL HARM.

4 (iii) HAVING AN ACTUAL AND SUBSTANTIAL DETRIMENTAL EFFECT ON A

5 PUPIL'S PHYSICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH OR CAUSING SUBSTANTIAL EMOTIONAL

6 DISTRESS.

7 (iv) CAUSING SUBSTANTIAL DISRUPTION IN, OR SUBSTANTIAL

8 INTERFERENCE WITH, THE ORDERLY OPERATION OF THE SCHOOL.

 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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 As to the Arizona law, my

 As to the Arizona law, my problem with it is hardly the "so help me god". I think it is far more disturbing that our government wants to force children to swear an oath to it. I find it ironic that for years the republican party has accused public schools as being centers for indoctrination more than education, and now propose this law. If forcing children to repeat an oath to the government isn't indoctrination I don't know what is. No parent who gives a fuck about their children's education would send their kids to an American public school. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Funny how they have no

Funny how they have no problems taking away rights for being atheist but they would never consider taking away obligations like paying taxes for being atheist.

 

 

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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Beyond Saving wrote:Read the

Beyond Saving wrote:
Read the law for yourself 

 

I did. It's the first thing I did after reading the article. I went out to the state documents and read it myself.

I did not know there was a revised version of it, which is a relief, because I began to think Michigan was nothing more than a bunch of homophobic christians.


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Beyond Saving wrote: As to

Beyond Saving wrote:

 As to the Arizona law, my problem with it is hardly the "so help me god". I think it is far more disturbing that our government wants to force children to swear an oath to it. I find it ironic that for years the republican party has accused public schools as being centers for indoctrination more than education, and now propose this law. If forcing children to repeat an oath to the government isn't indoctrination I don't know what is. No parent who gives a fuck about their children's education would send their kids to an American public school. 

I agree. I think forcing them to take this oath is indoctrination. It's an oath that you give federal employees or military personnel, not young adults trying to get a high school diploma.

 


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Liked the one comment You

Liked the one comment

You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ.

The good thing about all this and stuff like the rape comments is its killing the republican party. The have become the "stupid party". At some point they will have to kick out the crazies if they want to survive.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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Beyond Saving wrote: As to

Beyond Saving wrote:

 As to the Arizona law, my problem with it is hardly the "so help me god". I think it is far more disturbing that our government wants to force children to swear an oath to it. I find it ironic that for years the republican party has accused public schools as being centers for indoctrination more than education, and now propose this law. If forcing children to repeat an oath to the government isn't indoctrination I don't know what is. No parent who gives a fuck about their children's education would send their kids to an American public school. 

I have no problem with oaths, they are no different than verbal contracts, just like swearing to tell the truth in a court of law.

But no one should be forced to swear an oath to a god. But with kids, kids should be taught to think for themselves. Thus with or without the "so help me god" this is forced. Public school is a requirement unless one can afford private school which most cant.

And once again you live in a bubble. If public school were rid of, it would be taken over by religious nuts and big corporations. American public schools are not the problem, it is lack of investment in society. Pay gap, cost of living. We have parents who have less and less means to pay their bills and less and have to work longer leaving kids to latchkey status. You also have media selling garbage constantly that does nothing to foster education. Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore are dumbing down our youth.

As long as people like you and your voting habits protect one class instead of the investment like after WW2 that built our middle class, public schools will suck, but not because they have to, but because of your "screw you I got mine" mentality.

It isn't public vs private, rich vs poor. It is MENTALITY in an extraction climate. Other pluralistic democracies have public schools too. What they don't have is the gap we do here. There is robbery going on, but it is top down, not bottom up.

 

 

 

 

 

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ex-minister wrote:Liked the

ex-minister wrote:
Liked the one comment You can't spell CRAZY without R-AZ. The good thing about all this and stuff like the rape comments is its killing the republican party. The have become the "stupid party". At some point they will have to kick out the crazies if they want to survive.

Republican Bobby Jindal touched on this very thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc0S0nSIEcQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2wcjQCC6cg

In his own words :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYhfR8AdEwo

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Brian37 wrote:I have no

Brian37 wrote:

I have no problem with oaths, they are no different than verbal contracts, just like swearing to tell the truth in a court of law.

But no one should be forced to swear an oath to a god. But with kids, kids should be taught to think for themselves. Thus with or without the "so help me god" this is forced. Public school is a requirement unless one can afford private school which most cant.

I have no problem with voluntary oaths. No one should be forced to swear an oath to anything

 

Brian37 wrote:

And once again you live in a bubble. If public school were rid of, it would be taken over by religious nuts and big corporations. American public schools are not the problem, it is lack of investment in society. Pay gap, cost of living. We have parents who have less and less means to pay their bills and less and have to work longer leaving kids to latchkey status. You also have media selling garbage constantly that does nothing to foster education. Honey Boo Boo and Jersey Shore are dumbing down our youth.

As long as people like you and your voting habits protect one class instead of the investment like after WW2 that built our middle class, public schools will suck, but not because they have to, but because of your "screw you I got mine" mentality.

It isn't public vs private, rich vs poor. It is MENTALITY in an extraction climate. Other pluralistic democracies have public schools too. What they don't have is the gap we do here. There is robbery going on, but it is top down, not bottom up.

The problem with our public schools is hardly a lack of investment. We spend more per child than any country on the planet in the history of mankind. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: The

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

The problem with our public schools is hardly a lack of investment. We spend more per child than any country on the planet in the history of mankind. 

 

the problem is usually where the money goes.  i've never taught in america (thank god), so i don't know where the money goes there, but here in slovakia it usually goes to flashy but unnecessary pet projects.  for example, our high school just got 10 interactive boards, with electronic styluses and everything.  to actually set up and use the motherfuckers properly, you either have to give up your 10-minute break or sacrifice 10 or 15 minutes out of a 45-minute lesson.  meanwhile, we have 40 year-old radiators falling apart, ditto tables and chairs, ancient dell desktops that barely work, copiers on their last legs, peeling paint, sometimes even mold, etc., etc.  how many new tables and chairs could the price of one of those stupid boards have paid for?  better yet, how many teachers could have had an increase in salary for all those boards paid for, thus not having to work so many extra jobs, thus not getting burnt out and caring about teaching more?  i'm not against technology, but i'm for priorities and common sense.  a bad teacher with an interactive board is still a bad teacher.

but i can't say i blame the principal.  how else are you going to convince not only the state but also parents to fork over more money?  education is a looong-term investment whose results cannot easily be measured.  people like short-term, tangible things.  if someone asks for $5 million to build a highway, he can point to that highway when it's done.  we can't present a chart that says "x number of students have been successfully educated, which an x% increase over last year, blah blah blah."  it's real easy, however, to say, "oh our school is top of the pack and deserves more money because last year we installed ten interactive boards."

i refuse to use the motherfuckers because i don't need them.  most of the teachers flat out don't need them.  i could see putting in one or two, especially in the science classrooms, but it's our principal's stated goal to have one in every classroom.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:the problem is

iwbiek wrote:

the problem is usually where the money goes.  i've never taught in america (thank god), so i don't know where the money goes there, but here in slovakia it usually goes to flashy but unnecessary pet projects.  for example, our high school just got 10 interactive boards, with electronic styluses and everything.  to actually set up and use the motherfuckers properly, you either have to give up your 10-minute break or sacrifice 10 or 15 minutes out of a 45-minute lesson.  meanwhile, we have 40 year-old radiators falling apart, ditto tables and chairs, ancient dell desktops that barely work, copiers on their last legs, peeling paint, sometimes even mold, etc., etc.  how many new tables and chairs could the price of one of those stupid boards have paid for?  better yet, how many teachers could have had an increase in salary for all those boards paid for, thus not having to work so many extra jobs, thus not getting burnt out and caring about teaching more?  i'm not against technology, but i'm for priorities and common sense.  a bad teacher with an interactive board is still a bad teacher.

My oldest sister's best friend is a high school teacher here and talks about that same exact thing.

Funds getting diverted for bullshit.

The Board of Education in the city she resides in LOVES to buy flashy shit that students can not use.BUT, it looks good when the local politicians running for office can go on TV and talk about the importance of education. (i.e. look at all this fancy shit that kids now have access to).This happens while the things the teachers are really wanting (like up to date textbooks and such) go on the back burner.

Her main complaint is that these days, most people in charge of education are people that have little to no classroom time and want teachers to spend 85% of their classroom time, prepping kids  for big exams that are multiple choice to make the school stats look good.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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There are so many problems

There are so many problems with schools in N.A. that they really need to be restructured from the ground up.

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