the supposid conspiracy of obama trying to make us a police state any input would be helpful

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the supposid conspiracy of obama trying to make us a police state any input would be helpful

ok ive been reading alot about obama supposidly trying to make america a police state// being an atheist i obviously lean toward the liberal progressive side.. keep in mind i think both parties are full of shit.. but i keep hearing all this stuff obamas doing like the indefinite detainee policy, the banning of service dogs for soldiers with ptsd, disarming all citizens, etc...... i want to know how true this stuff is and if anyone can point me in the right direction to what could be really going on... i keep searching and all i come up with are right wing sites abotu obama... is any of this true?


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 He is a commie, and hates

 He is a commie, and hates the free market. And he is black, the most important argument.

That, or bigots cant stand losing an election.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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FEMA camps in the works for

FEMA camps in the works to do the work of Barrack HUSSIEN Obama

 

 

 


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While I agree

While I agree hbmbc that both political parties are full of shit and while I do not claim either one, I would be willing to say that 99% of that stuff that floats around out about Obama  is utter nonsense.

Take the people that took up a whole lot of time trying to prove that Obama was not originally born here and such.

There was some half-ass documentary on youtube called : The Obama Deception, that this conspiracy theory nutcase that I work with, swears by. I watched a few minutes of it, long enough to hear stuff about the New World Order, The Illuminati and a whole bunch of other stuff before turning it off. I am not a believer in conspiracy theories.

But, most of the current conspiracy theories going around do not just include Obama (I have a co-worker who is a conspiracy theory nutcase). The current conspiracy theory floating around is :

9/11 was an inside job, done by the Bush administration.

Sandy Hook Elementary school shootings were done by the government, and the parents were all paid actors for television.

Aurora Colorado Shootings were done by the government.

Timothy McVeigh was innocent of the Oklahoma City Bombings.

and that all of this is an attempt to take away our guns.

I just don't believe that any of that would even be remotely possible in any way shape form or fashion. Hell, the government is so bumbling that they can barely pay a light bill correctly. A politician can not even have a love affair without it being front page news, and I am supposed to believe that the government can pull off all of THIS ?

Now, as far as all the things that I might disagree with about this current administration, that is another matter entirely.

But me personally, I see no evidence that Obama is going to actually "take" all of the guns or turn the country into a police state.

Now the indefinite detainee thing that you are referring to may come from something out of the Patriot Act (which was put into effect under the Bush Administration and is still being enforced). Yes, they can detain someone on charges of suspicion of terrorism for an undisclosed amount of time. Now, I THINK that is true, but I would have to look up the Patriot Act to know for certain.

As far as the banning of service dogs, that is a new one on me.

I wish I had some links, but it is like you said. Most of the time when you type in anything that can be hinted at as a conspiracy or something that has the potential to be hyped, it could land you at a site like Prison Planet or something along those lines.

Usually if I find some webpage that starts talking about the New World Order, the Bildebergs, or any of the rest of that kind of stuff, I just page right on through them. Nothing to see there folks, just keep moving.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Cpt_pineapple wrote:FEMA

Cpt_pineapple wrote:

FEMA camps in the works to do the work of Barrack HUSSIEN Obama

 

I remember first hearing a lot of hype about FEMA a few years ago, but never could get to the bottom of what people were so afraid of them about. Of course, I am saying get to the bottom like I actually researched it, when I never did.

So, I have never found out what all of the FEMA hype is all about.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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hbmbc30 wrote:ok ive been

hbmbc30 wrote:

ok ive been reading alot about obama supposidly trying to make america a police state// being an atheist i obviously lean toward the liberal progressive side.. keep in mind i think both parties are full of shit.. but i keep hearing all this stuff obamas doing like the indefinite detainee policy, the banning of service dogs for soldiers with ptsd, disarming all citizens, etc...... i want to know how true this stuff is and if anyone can point me in the right direction to what could be really going on... i keep searching and all i come up with are right wing sites abotu obama... is any of this true?

I agree with Harley. 99.99% of the shit you read on the Internet is complete and utterly bullshit.


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 I give Obama the benefit

 I give Obama the benefit of the doubt.  For me it's important how I perceive the President (and any elected official) as a thinker.  I viewed Bush as a moronic dishonest corrupt violent self centered man who would proudly do things that benefit rich cronies and the military industrial complex over the citizens of our country.  I view Obama as a man who is a great thinker that has had to make decisions as President that he wouldn't have agreed with before he was President but that he never forgets the interests of the citizens and does what he thinks is best for us as a country, and almost as importantly... best for the world.

Obama has let liberals down on quite a few fronts but I wonder how many of those things are a result of tough decisions that have details that are learned when one becomes President.  Like the reasons to keep Guantanamo for example.  Obama spent much of his first term trying to find balance and compromise with the GOP.  It's nice to see him fight on the Fiscal Cliff a little differently.  He needs to be less compromising.  The GOP is scum, utterly destructive to our world, nice to see him being forceful.  

 

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anonymous

what does everyone think of anonymous? they have been putting out alot of videos and the most recent one if found is about the govt..   they seem pretty helbent on obama being a wannabe dictator

Chris


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I don't want to hear shit

I don't want to hear shit about Obama when the gun nutters want all teachers armed? What kind of message does that send, "Live under armed government employees". If that is not a police state, I don't know what is.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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hbmbc30 wrote:being an

hbmbc30 wrote:

being an atheist i obviously lean toward the liberal progressive side

i see no reason why this should be obvious.  we have several conservative and/or libertarian members here--EXC, Beyond, Cap--and i see no reason to consider them somehow anomalous as atheists.  many of the greatest laissez-faire conservatives have been atheist or at least irreligious: milton friedman, sydney hook, david ricardo, and of course ayn rand.

as for the police state, every state is technically a "police state," since what makes a state a state is its possession of coercive power.  history has generally shown that all states naturally tend to appropriate more and more power for themselves; it's all a question of how quickly and how far this process plays out. 

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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hbmbc30 wrote:ok ive been

hbmbc30 wrote:

ok ive been reading alot about obama supposidly trying to make america a police state// being an atheist i obviously lean toward the liberal progressive side.. keep in mind i think both parties are full of shit.. but i keep hearing all this stuff obamas doing like the indefinite detainee policy, the banning of service dogs for soldiers with ptsd, disarming all citizens, etc...... i want to know how true this stuff is and if anyone can point me in the right direction to what could be really going on... i keep searching and all i come up with are right wing sites abotu obama... is any of this true?

Well depends on how you define the line of "police state". Generally I think the term is hyperbolic. He has however led an increase in authority to police and the military.

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2012 does allow for indefinite detention of terrorist suspects in military custody.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-112hr1540enr/pdf/BILLS-112hr1540enr.pdf

The specific language that has been controversial is in sections 1021 and 1022 starting on page 265. It remains unclear to what extent those provisions could be used against American citizens. It does codify practices that were in place under the Patriot Act but were not directly outlined by the law.

Obama also signed an extension of the Patriot Act which not only renewed the controversial powers of roving wire taps, lone wolf surveillance (surveillance of a person who is a suspected terrorist but has no ties to any terrorist organization and therefore using the lower requirements for things like warrants.) It also gave the government extra powers to monitor financial transactions and to regulate and track the sales of ingredients used to make meth. 

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-109hr3199enr/pdf/BILLS-109hr3199enr.pdf

Both of these laws have received significant criticism from the ACLU, hardly a right wing organization. The votes on both of these laws were not divided among party lines with democrats and republicans on both sides of the vote. Both of these laws are also similar to laws passed during the Bush era and at that time received large support from republicans who like Sapient didn't mind because they trusted the guy in the white house. Personally, I think it is a huge mistake to trust anyone with that kind of power, sooner or later your guy will be gone and the power doesn't go with him. I really wish Obama's supporters would hold his feet to the fire on this issue, it is one of the things he opposed as a Senator and one of the few issues I agreed with him on. I do have to give the ACLU credit for remaining in opposition despite being a left leaning organization, it shows that they have principles.

 

As far as the service dogs being denied to veterans with PTSD, this is the first I heard of it, but a quick check at military.com shows it is true. 

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/09/06/va-no-service-dogs-warranted-for-ptsd-sufferers.html 

Based on the story there it seems like it was a decision made by the VA, it is doubtful that Obama took any personal interest or even had any idea it was happening. It is physically impossible for a President to personally approve every regulation written. It is also an inherent risk of being reliant on government for your healthcare- they have the power to say "no, we are not going to pay for that". I had a similar problem when I was in the military where the paper pushers denied me a visit to the hospital when I could tell my medication was not working properly. It took me a week before I could get in where it was discovered that the pneumonia I had was being resistant to the particular antibiotic I was given. Due to the delay in getting in to see my doctor I developed permanent scarring on my lungs which forced me out of the service and has left me with chronic health problems.

It is a structural problem of the government attempting to limit fraudulent and bullshit claims to reduce the cost, which invariably will lead to some people falling through the cracks no matter how well the system is implemented. If you care about your health, plan on paying for it yourself so you don't give the government or a private insurer the power to deny payment. 

 

And as far as Obama wanting to disarm citizens- he has made if very clear he desires to ban some guns and supports the proposed "assault weapons" ban. He wants to ban all magazines greater than 10 rounds (less than my pistol), re-implement and strengthen the old expired assault weapons ban, strengthen background checks and hire 15,000 new police officers.

I am not sure if he supports Diane Feinstein's suggestion of modifying the assault weapons ban to include any weapon with a detachable magazine and one military feature- the previous law banned guns that had two or more. "Military feature" is a folding or telescoping stock, a pistol grip, a bayonet mount, a flash supressor, a threaded barrel, or a grenade launcher. On a pistol it includes a magazine that attaches outside of the pistol grip, a barrel shroud, or weighs more than 50 oz. On a shotgun it includes a folding stock, pistol grip, capacity for more than five rounds or a detachable magazine. 

So while it is false he wants to ban all guns, he does want to ban many guns. Since the law has not been written yet, it is unclear whether current guns that would become illegal would be confiscated or whether or not private sales of them would still be legal. 

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/01/16/us/obama-gun-control-proposal.html

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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hbmbc30 wrote:what does

hbmbc30 wrote:

what does everyone think of anonymous? they have been putting out alot of videos and the most recent one if found is about the govt..   they seem pretty helbent on obama being a wannabe dictator

Anonymous is dead. Its last big thing was scientology. But that battle and subsequent attacks on a few major corporations and finally the recent 99% movement has fractured anonymous into dozens of groups which do not have anything like the power or capabilities of the original.

Far as Obama goes, he's a step or 3 up from Bush. But Bush was 20 steps down from Clinton, so it's not saying much.

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iwbiek wrote:i see no reason

iwbiek wrote:

i see no reason why this should be obvious.  we have several conservative and/or libertarian members here--EXC, Beyond, Cap--

To set the record strait, I'm not conservative, libertarian or liberal. I consider myself rational. It happens that most atheists are liberal so when I argue with them I come off as conservative or libertarian.

For example, I do believe in liberal causes like universal healthcare could be provided if part of a rational social contract and not an irrational unsustainable birthright as most liberals demand.

As far as gun control, maybe one day all guns and gun violence could be banished. But as it is now, with overpopulation and competition, we are all forced to fight for our survival. In such a world the gun owners win and the unarmed are the losers. We can't count on the police and miltary to keep the peace when the governments are going broke. So gun control makes no sense now unless you want to be ruled by genocidal war lords. Unless there is birth regulation, all other regulation is pretty useless.

I don't think Obama is going to become a dicator unless we have a major national disaster or financial crisis. But he is setting the table for this when a crisis does come one day.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


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I was going to post

Sapient wrote:

 I give Obama the benefit of the doubt.  For me it's important how I perceive the President (and any elected official) as a thinker.  I viewed Bush as a moronic dishonest corrupt violent self centered man who would proudly do things that benefit rich cronies and the military industrial complex over the citizens of our country.  I view Obama as a man who is a great thinker that has had to make decisions as President that he wouldn't have agreed with before he was President but that he never forgets the interests of the citizens and does what he thinks is best for us as a country, and almost as importantly... best for the world.

Obama has let liberals down on quite a few fronts but I wonder how many of those things are a result of tough decisions that have details that are learned when one becomes President.  Like the reasons to keep Guantanamo for example.  Obama spent much of his first term trying to find balance and compromise with the GOP.  It's nice to see him fight on the Fiscal Cliff a little differently.  He needs to be less compromising.  The GOP is scum, utterly destructive to our world, nice to see him being forceful.  

 

My insights --but---I see I don't have to. You got it right as best I can make of it. The GOP made it a point to oppose anything he'd recommend to handle a problem.

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EXC wrote:I consider myself

EXC wrote:
I consider myself rational.

If you were rational, you wouldn't be the king of strawmanning all left leaning ideas. You are conservative, because there's nothing else for you to be.

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