Crossing the line to warn the indoctrinated children

movin4ward
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Crossing the line to warn the indoctrinated children

One personal dilemma I have wrestled with recently is that I feel(know) my trio of nephews are being brainwashed, albeit not as bad as their mom and I had it. My social behavior needs a bit of polishing and tuning up so I came here to pose this question:

Is their a proper social etiquette or way to go about warning the young- telling them in a nutshell that their parents bought the lie and then shoved it down their throats and thus them clinging to such fanatical beliefs is non conducive to their proper brain development and social functioning?

I wish I had been told. Had I though (which I was once) I'd have ran straight to mama and told on that person, not to get them in trouble but out of curiosity. Most deluded parents(the unwise) would be royally pissed off. Feeling justified in their reaction. Doing so would inevitably strain an already strained relationship. Should I live and let live, wait til the nephews are a certain age to tell them or let them figure it out like I did? Sadly I see them following in my footsteps and their dad is a corrupt, narcissistic, arrogant, bullheaded stubborn asshole and my sis is not very bright and always sides with everyone but me so I fear their wrath and find myself on the fence.

Personal experiences and any advice are welcome- thanks

ps I might add, in my specific case my relationship with my nephews parents is non existent and I want it to stay that way. I really don't think I would ever change the boys minds though. Maybe I should just live by example and let time do the job for me.


RobbyPants
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It sounds like you answered

It sounds like you answered a lot of your own question in the OP. As you said, you're going to piss off your sister, and at the end of the day, they're her kids.

Once they get older, you can talk to them about it, then. Also, as you already mentioned, if you tell them now, you will likely be met with resistance, anyway.

 

This topic hits close to home for me in that I was Christian when I got married to my wife, and only deconverted about two years ago. We have two children now, currently being raised Christian (one and four years old). I'm not exactly sure how I want to handle the topic with my own kids. Given how observant my older daughter is, she will probably notice something and ask me at a far younger age than I'd plan on talking to her about it. My wife's greatest concern is that they will see their parents believing different things and then walk away from it.

(Of course, if a belief system relies on brainwashing children when they're young enough to believe in Santa, followed by hiding them from all dissenting view points, what good is the belief system?)[/thread hijack]


movin4ward
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Doubts...

I sometimes felt my dad had his doubts yet feared the repercussions of being honest with himself and his family, I lost no respect for him even if that was the case. Truthfully I feel sorry for him for bearing such a burden. Often I wonder if the times he acted spiritual in church it was more like throwing out red herrings to throw us off and quelch any suspicions.

I might engage my nephews parents in a christianity debate in the future, they will act like I'm off my rocker but at least I can plant seeds of logic and doubt in the hopes they too can pull their heads out of their arses someday and show their boys the light. I called the #1 elder of 35 years at my ex church this morning and we talked a half hour. The best he could come up with to the questions I posed were the classic "we don't know but will someday and only god knows what's best". He claims ham's offspring alone constructed the tower of babel a mere 100 years after the flood- just so a few elite hamsprings could escape the next flood. The same flood that covered up the flaming swords and cherubims- please. Hopefully his head is spinning with doubt right now- sadly I'd bet he is trying to rationalize his beliefs like he has always done.


RobbyPants
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Once they're old enough, a

Once they're old enough, a good Philosophy 101 class might be good enough to get them asking the right questions. Of course, they'll be old teenagers by then.

As for the conversation with the elder, a lot of the answers effectively boil down to "I don't know, but I believe it anyway". That type of answer used to satisfy me when I was younger. The biggest reason I stopped believing is because those types of answers stopped being satisfying when I realized I was just dodging the question or making something up to stave off cognitive dissonance. 


Vastet
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Kids are smart. Drop hints,

Kids are smart. Drop hints, clues. You shouldn't have to say it outright. Even a little snort at the mention of god will be enough to make most kids take note. The more hints you drop, the more likely they'll notice that not everyone agrees with mommy and daddy.
While doing that, teach them critical thinking skills, using ads. Show them how companies lie and twist the truth.
Doing this will undercut their theist upbringing without challenging it directly.
Success isn't guaranteed, in the end it is their decision. All you can do is give them more tools to work with.
If they ask you directly, you can either tell them your beliefs or suggest they should be older before having that talk. Don't lie.

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EXC
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Personally, I think you

Personally, I think you should discuss this with parents. What they would consider over the line. If you can live with their rules, then have a relationship with this family.

If not, tell them you consider what they are doing child abuse and you want no part of deceiving children about the true nature of the universe. Challenge them to tell the children the reason you gave for not wanting to have a relationship with your nephews.

Taxation is the price we pay for failing to build a civilized society. The higher the tax level, the greater the failure. A centrally planned totalitarian state represents a complete defeat for the civilized world, while a totally voluntary society represents its ultimate success. --Mark Skousen


movin4ward
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Made the call...

Vastet, Been pondering your words- took em to heart..Thank you for saving me the grief...

EXC, Sound advice as well..Gracias!

Called my sis this afternoon and ended up talking with the boys brilliant papa for over half an hour. We found our long awaited middle ground after years of searching half assedly and it's a winner!....Admitting our relationship is irreparable and since we have nothing in common, he's a cop, my sisters a fake n bake plastic surgery freak on a leash believing korny stuff and since I'm a blend of mad scientist, redneck/hippie/naturalist/animal lover with a twist of greaser thrown in to stay out of each others life...I made it very clear that I was not trying to prove him wrong, rather since he was the big dog blindly leading my sis and nephews it's about time to study the fuck up. How can a mind like his actually be a detective? I'd do a much better job of crime solving in this small town than his backwards, antiquated, archaic methods of problem solving .I filled his head with osiris, mithris and the like, he kept repeating I'm not sure what your point of calling is until he cleverly tricked me and turned it back on me like I'm a bad uncle. I replied by saying that it's his middle son I am specifically worried about. I clearly explained that due to his stuttering and excessive blinking, being the kid of a well known police force in a town where teenage suicide is as common as full moons, compounded with his inward, untrusting behavior well, it's sad to say he's following in my footsteps. Keep in mind my sis agreed 100% with my concerns and had some of the same concerns. Poor kids dad took it as a personal attack on my behalf of his middle born boy and made me repeat my reasonings 5 or 6 times. In the end he denied even the slightest problem whatsoever concerning his boys lack of communications despite months of behavior therapy years back because they knew something was not right. He can't admit it but his boy has schizotypal tendencies and nothing is being done about it. I said bingo, thats the problem. He called me crazy- I venomously spat back the corruption he is involved in with his job. He retorted calmly that if their was corruption, a pound of coke would have been planted on me long ago and I'd be in prison. At that point Id had enough and he said I better never talk to his boys about god. I calmly replied I won't, but if they come to me I will not lie. He laughed and sarcastically said that'll never happen. At the end of my rope I firmly asked him if telling them my views would have been breaking the law on my behalf. A sheepish no slipped out with a threat at the end...My family has treated me worse than my worst enemies have and that is fact. Just think, right about now the boys are being told their uncle is the brainwashed one- not their parents. No wonder the boys have always acted so cold around me. I'm done and it's time to live my own life. They've done made their bed, of delusional fairytales where even past gods don't exist because they've never heard of them. One last point I find interesting. Before my deconversion I slipped into a state of religous fervor- he warned me to not take the bible literally, I took his advice and it worked like a charm and even told him that was the best advice he'd ever given me, he now denies that conversation ever took place since he now claims to believe 100% including the ark.. What a liar, back when I was young he always claimed how much he hated liars- guess that was just to throw people off, can't wait til people see my families true colors...


Vastet
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Tbh, he just as likely

Tbh, he just as likely forgot. Memory sucks. Only about 30% of your memories are accurate. The rest are copies of memories and imagination. It's very easy to overwrite a memory and forget details.
It's unlikely the conversation you two engaged in had the same impact on him as it did you.
As a cop, pressure to believe is high, and hits from all sides. His belief has been bolstered by all his coworkers all the time. Many of whom are probably evangelists.

I'd almost be concerned about that cocaine bit. Sounds like a threat to me. But I may be wrong.

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