Floored by a phone call from my younger sister.

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Floored by a phone call from my younger sister.

Ok guys, here is the skinny. Both my younger sister and I were put up for adoption as kids. She has a different father but we both have the same biological mother.

Fast forward a couple of decades, I find my biological family through social services.

 

When we first meet as adults she was still a Christian. We had an easy truce about the topic, but some financial stress ended up affecting her family and kids so I backed off so that I would not add to their problems.

Fast forward again a few years later, she has a fight with another family member, but makes up with them, out of that I got word that she wanted to call me.

 

So for about almost 2 hours she gave me details of her journey away from Christianity. Did briefly dabble in other woo, but also gave up on that.

So I was so pleased that to hear what we her have gone through, the more you questioned the less sense it made.

Anywho, she says she will check out the three main websites I hang out on, including this one.

That was the best conversation I have had with any of my family members.

Now, she does call herself agnostic. But I did try to explain why it is ok to put agnostic in front of the word atheist.

So at some point she'll be on, I don't know how much she will post. But lets give her a kind welcome when she does.

HOLLY FRIGGEN CRAP! MY SISTER WOW I AM SOOOOOOOO PROUD OF HER!

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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That's good news

That's good news. I trust that you have explained to her about the bar-b-q and kittens thing that all Atheists do right ? Smiling

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:That's

harleysportster wrote:

That's good news. I trust that you have explained to her about the bar-b-q and kittens thing that all Atheists do right ? Smiling

Oh crap. Um, sis, when you read this, we have a little initiation

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Oh crap. Um,

Brian37 wrote:

Oh crap. Um, sis, when you read this, we have a little initiation

 

Laughing out loud


digitalbeachbum
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Are you happy that she is

Are you happy that she is finding her truth or are you happy that she is starting to believe in what you believe in?

 


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digitalbeachbum wrote:Are

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Are you happy that she is finding her truth or are you happy that she is starting to believe in what you believe in?

 

yeah, i'm wondering that too.  brian's remarks sound almost word-for-word like the old "yippee, we got another one for the kingdom!" lingo i used to hear and use all the time as an evangelical christian.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:digitalbeachbum

iwbiek wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Are you happy that she is finding her truth or are you happy that she is starting to believe in what you believe in?

 

yeah, i'm wondering that too.  brian's remarks sound almost word-for-word like the old "yippee, we got another one for the kingdom!" lingo i used to hear and use all the time as an evangelical christian.

Yeah and I'd like to say I'm happy for him and her, but I'm happier that she is finding out things for herself. I'm not trying to be a douche with my comments, but IWBIEK hit it right on the head... it sounds like like the theists shouting "We've saved another"

I completely understand though the personal aspect per Brian's previous descriptions of his family, so...

 


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iwbiek wrote:digitalbeachbum

iwbiek wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Are you happy that she is finding her truth or are you happy that she is starting to believe in what you believe in?

 

yeah, i'm wondering that too.  brian's remarks sound almost word-for-word like the old "yippee, we got another one for the kingdom!" lingo i used to hear and use all the time as an evangelical christian.

Both, but the truth is what is most important. I still get along with my other believing family members. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want them also to discover the truth. But I do not actively "recruit" anyone.

She did this on her own, I haven't talked to her for years.  She told me she was always curious, meaning a questioner, so it wasn't a stretch for her at all to do it. If she posts here she can tell you guys more about it in detail. I think she might want to lurk for a while like many.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:Both, but the

Brian37 wrote:

Both, but the truth is what is most important. I still get along with my other believing family members. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want them also to discover the truth. But I do not actively "recruit" anyone.

She did this on her own, I haven't talked to her for years.  She told me she was always curious, meaning a questioner, so it wasn't a stretch for her at all to do it. If she posts here she can tell you guys more about it in detail. I think she might want to lurk for a while like many.

the hair on the back of my neck goes up when i hear that word "truth."  i've heard that word way too many times in too many fucked up situations in my life.

i'll go along tentatively with "truthS."  i do not believe in "truth" minus the "s."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Both, but the truth is what is most important. I still get along with my other believing family members. I'd be lying if I said I didn't want them also to discover the truth. But I do not actively "recruit" anyone.

She did this on her own, I haven't talked to her for years.  She told me she was always curious, meaning a questioner, so it wasn't a stretch for her at all to do it. If she posts here she can tell you guys more about it in detail. I think she might want to lurk for a while like many.

the hair on the back of my neck goes up when i hear that word "truth."  i've heard that word way too many times in too many fucked up situations in my life.

i'll go along tentatively with "truthS."  i do not believe in "truth" minus the "s."

Context.

Do we know the future? No. But I do think the idea of an invisible cognition can be ruled out.

We are certainly as individuals entitled to our own opinions , but we are not entitled to our own facts. I came to the same truth all of us came to and my sister did in that Santa is for kids, even if science still is working on the future.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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as my life progresses, i

as my life progresses, i increasingly see no reason to automatically assume that objectivity trumps subjectivity.  i use the language of objectivity because that is most helpful for communication in my experience, but honestly, i don't know if objectivity even really exists.  as kant said, if there really is a "thing in itself," we can't possibly perceive it anyhow.  what is our conventional "objectivity" but a bunch of second-hand subjectivities haphazardly mashed together?

as far as i'm concerned, if you believe with all your being that jesus talked to you, then jesus fuckin' talked to you.  who's to say he didn't?  even if i'm there with you, i can't observe the same data as you.  i'm not occupying the space you're occupying, my optical nerves don't operate precisely as yours operate, my neurons don't fire the way yours fire, i don't carry precisely the same cultural baggage you carry, so who am i to say, "no, you're fuckin' wrong"?

conversely, who are you to tell me you're fuckin' right for anyone but yourself?  your subjective experience is 100% valid for you.  mine is 100% valid for me.  let's fuckin' leave it at that.  don't try to replace mine with yours.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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Brian37 wrote: But I do

Brian37 wrote:

 But I do think the idea of an invisible cognition can be ruled out.

that's cool.  but applying the "T" word to anything can mean the difference between a kant and a khomeini.

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:as my life

iwbiek wrote:

as my life progresses, i increasingly see no reason to automatically assume that objectivity trumps subjectivity.  i use the language of objectivity because that is most helpful for communication in my experience, but honestly, i don't know if objectivity even really exists.  as kant said, if there really is a "thing in itself," we can't possibly perceive it anyhow.  what is our conventional "objectivity" but a bunch of second-hand subjectivities haphazardly mashed together?

as far as i'm concerned, if you believe with all your being that jesus talked to you, then jesus fuckin' talked to you.  who's to say he didn't?  even if i'm there with you, i can't observe the same data as you.  i'm not occupying the space you're occupying, my optical nerves don't operate precisely as yours operate, my neurons don't fire the way yours fire, i don't carry precisely the same cultural baggage you carry, so who am i to say, "no, you're fuckin' wrong"?

conversely, who are you to tell me you're fuckin' right for anyone but yourself?  your subjective experience is 100% valid for you.  mine is 100% valid for me.  let's fuckin' leave it at that.  don't try to replace mine with yours.

Objectivity vs subjectivity is not the issue. Those are mental constructs based on point of view. Outside that when differences of opinion happen there is still a way to filter out personal bias.

Is it ok for a Muslim man to say his experience of subjecting his wife to wearing a tent and being a bun factory is ok because that is subjective? I am quite sure, not all, but many Muslim men who live in the past see that as objective.

"It's the man's role"

I am glad that life is not an absolute. I think you confuse good shit happens and bad shit happens with meaning. Ultimately there is no meaning to life. But it should not excuse us from accepting that we as a species are capable of doing both good and bad as individuals or as groups.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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iwbiek wrote:as my life

iwbiek wrote:

as my life progresses, i increasingly see no reason to automatically assume that objectivity trumps subjectivity.  i use the language of objectivity because that is most helpful for communication in my experience, but honestly, i don't know if objectivity even really exists.  as kant said, if there really is a "thing in itself," we can't possibly perceive it anyhow.  what is our conventional "objectivity" but a bunch of second-hand subjectivities haphazardly mashed together?

as far as i'm concerned, if you believe with all your being that jesus talked to you, then jesus fuckin' talked to you.  who's to say he didn't?  even if i'm there with you, i can't observe the same data as you.  i'm not occupying the space you're occupying, my optical nerves don't operate precisely as yours operate, my neurons don't fire the way yours fire, i don't carry precisely the same cultural baggage you carry, so who am i to say, "no, you're fuckin' wrong"?

conversely, who are you to tell me you're fuckin' right for anyone but yourself?  your subjective experience is 100% valid for you.  mine is 100% valid for me.  let's fuckin' leave it at that.  don't try to replace mine with yours.

Objectivity vs subjectivity is not the issue. Those are mental constructs based on point of view. Outside that when differences of opinion happen there is still a way to filter out personal bias.

Is it ok for a Muslim man to say his experience of subjecting his wife to wearing a tent and being a bun factory is ok because that is subjective? I am quite sure, not all, but many Muslim men who live in the past see that as objective.

"It's the man's role"

I am glad that life is not an absolute. I think you confuse good shit happens and bad shit happens with meaning. Ultimately there is no meaning to life. But it should not excuse us from accepting that we as a species are capable of doing both good and bad as individuals or as groups.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


Brian37
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iwbiek wrote:as my life

iwbiek wrote:

as my life progresses, i increasingly see no reason to automatically assume that objectivity trumps subjectivity.  i use the language of objectivity because that is most helpful for communication in my experience, but honestly, i don't know if objectivity even really exists.  as kant said, if there really is a "thing in itself," we can't possibly perceive it anyhow.  what is our conventional "objectivity" but a bunch of second-hand subjectivities haphazardly mashed together?

as far as i'm concerned, if you believe with all your being that jesus talked to you, then jesus fuckin' talked to you.  who's to say he didn't?  even if i'm there with you, i can't observe the same data as you.  i'm not occupying the space you're occupying, my optical nerves don't operate precisely as yours operate, my neurons don't fire the way yours fire, i don't carry precisely the same cultural baggage you carry, so who am i to say, "no, you're fuckin' wrong"?

conversely, who are you to tell me you're fuckin' right for anyone but yourself?  your subjective experience is 100% valid for you.  mine is 100% valid for me.  let's fuckin' leave it at that.  don't try to replace mine with yours.

Objectivity vs subjectivity is not the issue. Those are mental constructs based on point of view. Outside that when differences of opinion happen there is still a way to filter out personal bias.

Is it ok for a Muslim man to say his experience of subjecting his wife to wearing a tent and being a bun factory is ok because that is subjective? I am quite sure, not all, but many Muslim men who live in the past see that as objective.

"It's the man's role"

I am glad that life is not an absolute. I think you confuse good shit happens and bad shit happens with meaning. Ultimately there is no meaning to life. But it should not excuse us from accepting that we as a species are capable of doing both good and bad as individuals or as groups.

 

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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Brian37 wrote:I think you

Brian37 wrote:

I think you confuse good shit happens and bad shit happens with meaning. Ultimately there is no meaning to life. But it should not excuse us from accepting that we as a species are capable of doing both good and bad as individuals or as groups.

 

 

of course life has no meaning.  if i've been consistent with saying anything in the almost 5 years i've been in this forum, it's that.  that's why i don't like the word "truth."

"I have never felt comfortable around people who talk about their feelings for Jesus, or any other deity for that matter, because they are usually none too bright. . . . Or maybe 'stupid' is a better way of saying it; but I have never seen much point in getting heavy with either stupid people or Jesus freaks, just as long as they don't bother me. In a world as weird and cruel as this one we have made for ourselves, I figure anybody who can find peace and personal happiness without ripping off somebody else deserves to be left alone. They will not inherit the earth, but then neither will I. . . . And I have learned to live, as it were, with the idea that I will never find peace and happiness, either. But as long as I know there's a pretty good chance I can get my hands on either one of them every once in a while, I do the best I can between high spots."
--Hunter S. Thompson


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37 wrote:I

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

I think you confuse good shit happens and bad shit happens with meaning. Ultimately there is no meaning to life. But it should not excuse us from accepting that we as a species are capable of doing both good and bad as individuals or as groups.

 

 

of course life has no meaning.  if i've been consistent with saying anything in the almost 5 years i've been in this forum, it's that.  that's why i don't like the word "truth."

Yea, but that us merely being pedantic.

You still reject other crap without feeling the need to debunk it. If there were no way to test anything then you would be right.

Saying we as a species do not know the future does not mean we should cling to the past. Especially when we know that the sun is not a god.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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iwbiek wrote:Brian37

iwbiek wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

 But I do think the idea of an invisible cognition can be ruled out.

that's cool.  but applying the "T" word to anything can mean the difference between a kant and a khomeini.

When I asked Brian about "truth" I meant her personal truth. I believe that people who say "god is real" have their own personal truth about that subject. It might be wrong to every one else in the world, but that is why faith is what it is...

For Brian's sister to find her "own truth" she found that the other stuff wasn't working for her any more. She is seeking out new truths that will work for her, make her comfortable.

 


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wish I got a call like this

 

 

my little sister takes her three year old to church with her. She's terrified the child will go to hell so can't bear not to attempt indoctrination. A vicious circle.

Good news for you Brian - I'd be stoked, too. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck