|
Navigation
The Rational Response Squad is a group of atheist activists who impact society by changing the way we view god belief. This site is a haven for those who are pushing back against the norm, and a place for believers of gods to have their beliefs exposed as false should they want to try their hand at confronting us. Buy any item on AMAZON, and we'll use the small commission to help improve critical thinking. Buy a Laptop -- Apple
|
William Lane Craig
Posted on: December 30, 2012 - 10:56am
   Offline
William Lane Craig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLSwRcvX72M We've all had this guy thrown in our face at one time or another. Turns out he's simply another liar.
Any fans around who want to have a go at explaining this ?
|
|
Copyright Rational Response Squad 2006-2021.
|
@digitalbeachbum, harleysportster & blacklight
Okay, I'm sorry you feel that way, but if you ever want to back up your claims about Math Phyz, I'll be waiting.
For Rational Science and Philosophy:
www.integratedpost.com
Show me where I've made a single claim about "Math Phyz".
Look out! It's TROLL MATH!!!
This whole thread feels like its being divided by 0..
lol
Prove (1).
Prove (2).
It really is that simple.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
Also a question as to whether things can begin to exist in the non-temporal 'place' that exists outside the knowable universe. In the absence of time, how do you know what came first?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Whatever begins to exist has a cause because only God creates Himself, continuously and eternally. If you create yourself, you are God and have refuted atheism! (But God is God, and you are not He.) In Dostoyevsky's THE POSSESSED one of the characters wants to commit suicide to prove he is not afraid of death; that's the same sort of thing. One's moment of triumph in suicide, if there be such, does not last long. Dostoyevsky said, "If people do not believe in God, that means that they will believe in anything...."
If you believe that the universe has no beginning and is thus self-existent, then the universe is God. So when you say you are "an atheist," you mean that you do not believe in a personal God Who reveals Himself, as does the God of the Bible. Really you are a pantheist. The Bible, God's Word, never tries to prove the existence of God, just as I do not try to prove my existence when I write on the RRS site. God, especially through AtheistExtremist's favorite guy, the apostle Paul, just says that if you miss Him, you are dead and blind. You need to be born again. And certainly religious leaders can be spiritually dead and blind too. Thus the Pharisees put the only perfect man (and God Incarnate), Jesus Christ, to death, but He rose from the dead.
Yeah, but if our eternal fates depended upon believing you to be the person you claim to be; I would hope you'd put in the extra effort. You know, address, photos, official documents, etc. Those things are really not that hard, even for such limited beings as ourselves.
You know, I hear this guy's name a fair amount from Christians. But, honestly, why should I care what he said?
Bald assertion supported by meaningless labels humans lack the context to comprehend.
Appeal to the authority of the bald assertions of the confirmation biased.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Assertion with no support for first premise. False dichotomy - that the universe was either created by god or it is god. No alternatives are possible. No definitions are supplied.
Curiously, the personal god of the bible doesn't care to reveal himself, either. Better to believe and not to have seen, says jesus, winking as he strolls through a closed door.
As for being a pantheist, you are suggesting that atheists believe the material universe is a supreme being that exists inside itself, outside itself, created itself, is supernatural and cannot be defined.
Pantheism is an incoherent position held by those prone to generalising the incomprehensible. This is forgivable and entirely human. But it's almost certainly wrong.
The bible is so badly written it could not have been written by a being greater than that which can be imagined. It's second hand, unimaginative. The prose is wooden. It's irrational. Morally inconsistent. Its advice is pathetic, its idea of justice devoid of nuance. Its understanding of human physiology and human psychology is non existent. The bible is blind to the fundamentals of natural Gaian systems. God even refers to himself in the third person. It's downright bloody awful.
Given 'jesus' spends a good part of his time indulging in petty 'miracles' in the real world it seems likely even the early christians instinctively valued objective truth claims. You couldn't just claim a man was a god. He had to have 'special powers', too.
Paul employs that age-old irrational argument beloved of priests through the ages - ad hominem. If you disbelieve you are evil, stupid, proud, dead, blind, soon to burn.
Gods, whatever these might be, alleged to exist outside the universe where objective truth claims are unverifiable, can't die in the mortal sense, so cannot be considered to rise again from 'death' as we understand it.
In this context, the proposed sacrifice of jesus is meaningless. Small wonder the early church tore itself apart trying to rationalise the internal contradictions of an immortal, perfect, omnipotent, dead god.
It failed.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
No. You're just trying to posit a false situation where everything ends in some sort of theism. To believe that the Universe is eternal doesn't make you a Pantheist. You have to necessarily believe that there is a level of divinity of it to be labelled a Pantheist. This is a ridiculously childish argument. You realize you've lost, so now you've tacked on more rules to the game in order to make yourself believe that you've won. I hope it feels good. Here is a gold star!
Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.
Prove it! Offer us one shred of frigging proof for this assertion. I've only been around for a few decades and change, but it frustrates me that people have been asserting what you said up there with ZERO evidence for the better part of the last 2000 years, and most of the time have gotten away with it.
Atheism is the rejection of every god claim. That is all it takes. If you decline to believe any of the claims put forth, then you are an atheist. You, on the other hand, have just made a claim. One of the more popular ones. You are now left to prove:
1. A man named Jesus was a self proclaimed Messiah in that time and place
2. His paternity was divine
3. He survived rigor mortis
Bonus: His mother was a virgin (I say "bonus" because you didn't include that in your post, but that usually comes packaged in as well, does it not?)
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand go.
Oh wait, I'm not expecting you to prove anything. Nevermind.
Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.
First of all, the answer to a pre-bang universe has not been solved. So I don't "believe" in anything. There is evidence of what came after the bang, and that is all that we know. No, I can not be a pantheist or a panentheist, because I do not believe the universe is sentient or aware. Might as well worship the wind.
Of course we don't have to prove our existence to post, we are already here. Since when has god posted anywhere ?
The rest of your points are unproven assertions based on a faith that can not be verified or tested.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Since when have I ever made the claim that I created myself ?
― Fyodor Dostoevsky It doesn't sound like Dostoevsky was all that convinced of christianity.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
If I am dead, then I can not be blind.
Please give me a definition of what it means to be "dead and blind?'"
Please also give me an example of modern day religious leaders being in such a state and how you know that they are dead and blind.
Jesus Christ was the only perfect man ? You mean when he was telling followers to leave their families and follow him ? You mean when he said that he did not come to bring peace but a sword ? You mean when he said that he was going to turn brother against sister, father against mother ? Not the type of nutcase that I would follow.
Sounds like a prehistoric Charlie Manson.
“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno
Prove it. Because the suggestion that everything needs a cause except one thing is absolutely ridiculous. Only children can get away with such stupidity.
Ok, so what? All you're doing is limiting your own god. If the universe is god, then god is unintelligent and unthinking, and does not/can not have any effect on anything. Belief in its status as a god is irrelevant.
Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.
To assume the dimension of time always exists is a self-referential infinite loop.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
What use does a god have for a sex? I mean what is this HE crap? IT should be the proper pronoun.
Lets keep the rest simple. You are making a shitload of declarations there. Where did you get the KNOWLEDGE to make them? Do you really think they are true? If so, Why?
Most important, are you going to continue to ignore such obvious questions? Answer: Yes!
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Perfect man? When it comes to wine at a wedding the guy was pussy whipped by his own mother.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
One would think they would eventually get the transliteration from the cyrillic correct.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
Agree, this is a poor misquote.
because it's in the bible. Which is true because it's the word of god. Because is says so. In the bible.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
There are a few things in this world I keep being told but never can verify. One of them is this word of god thing for the bible. So far as I can determine the bible does not say it is the word of god any place. That is a contributor to "No one knows when the bible books began being considered religious works."
The same goes for lots of their claims. When they say it is in the bible it usually is not. Certainly almost never in the from of a simple declarative sentence. Rather at best in the muddled argument of some semi-literate 10th c. monk based upon one or more absurd ideas.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
I never thought too hard about that. But it would be pleasing to be able to argue with the (lack of) support of the text that at no time did the bible assert it was god's holy word.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Damn double posts
Elvis has left the building people... you can go home now.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"
2 Timothy 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
Ed: Though you have to wonder at the phrase 'god-breathed'. Given god exists outside space and time you'd think oxygen would be in short supply?
Or perhaps the authors were speaking metaphorically? Which is a problem when this sentence is the counterbalance to the 'truth' of so many assertions.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck