please explain why atheism is better than theism

illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
please explain why atheism is better than theism

I would like to hear your points and your supports of why you believe them


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
Because it's more rational.

Because it's more rational. There's no evidence to believe in a god so why do it?


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
But how is it rational that

But how is it rational that nothing created us


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:But how is

illures1234 wrote:

But how is it rational that nothing created us

 

More rational than a magical being in the sky did

 

There's a lot of empty space in the universe if god created the universe for us. What a waste.

 


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5409
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
 I never claimed it was

 I never claimed it was better, only that it is the far more likely reality. Sometimes reality isn't better than fantasy to some people. I personally prefer reality. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
what makes religion irrational

First looking at it from a non religious view people want to believe in something. whats the point if there is no after life. and that after life is different for many rdifferent religions. it is true that science has figured out how things work where long ago it was put off as a war of the gods in the case of i believe greece when a volcano erupted. the reason they believed that is they didnt have another explaination. But, there are things science can not prove still that is not saying that there is a higher power but it is saying that the world is so complex we are just figuring out how it works. the world is compllicated and we are figuring out how it works good. but to believe it just appeared is irrational the body for example do we know how a virus can cause ccancer yes we do. do we know why a virus happens to implant its genetic code into the precise spot on the cells dna reactivating the growth factor i dont maybe someone does. if we have come so far why then have we decided that we know better than doctors a example is tuburculosis(TB) is multi resistant now because people think "o i feel fine i dont need to finish the anti biotic" then the TB returns and is worse than before. the complexity of the human body alone would make the belief of nothing creating it irrational in my belief


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
Words

I admit i should have used a better wording for the topic i apologize


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote: First

illures1234 wrote:

First looking at it from a non religious view people want to believe in something. whats the point if there is no after life. and that after life is different for many rdifferent religions. it is true that science has figured out how things work where long ago it was put off as a war of the gods in the case of i believe greece when a volcano erupted. the reason they believed that is they didnt have another explaination. But, there are things science can not prove still that is not saying that there is a higher power but it is saying that the world is so complex we are just figuring out how it works. the world is compllicated and we are figuring out how it works good. but to believe it just appeared is irrational the body for example do we know how a virus can cause ccancer yes we do. do we know why a virus happens to implant its genetic code into the precise spot on the cells dna reactivating the growth factor i dont maybe someone does. if we have come so far why then have we decided that we know better than doctors a example is tuburculosis(TB) is multi resistant now because people think "o i feel fine i dont need to finish the anti biotic" then the TB returns and is worse than before. the complexity of the human body alone would make the belief of nothing creating it irrational in my belief

 

The complexity is why I believe the body is not planned or designed.  Why would an intelligent designer make it so complex it can go wrong in so many ways?  The engineering principle is "keep it simple, stupid."  The more complex a system is, the sooner it will fail.

There are many, many examples of structures in various organisms that make no sense from an engineering perspective.  Prostate gland - a structure that surrounds a flexible waste tube that swells with age - incidentally cutting off that waste tube.  How lame is that?  It only makes sense if the structure was evolved from other systems in a pseudo-random fashion.  The laryngeal nerve in a giraffe is another example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO1a1Ek-HD0

 

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Beyond Saving
atheist
Beyond Saving's picture
Posts: 5409
Joined: 2007-10-12
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:the

illures1234 wrote:
the complexity of the human body alone would make the belief of nothing creating it irrational in my belief

Yet you believe that a being so complex that it was capable of intentionally designing the human body was created by..... what exactly?

Ignorance of how things work is hardly a good reason to start believing in a deity. As history has shown, time after time, things that humans believed were directly caused by a deity in fact have natural explanations. Just because we don't know the how now doesn't mean that a couple hundred years from now you will be viewed as the equivalent of someone who believed that a rain dance actually causes rain. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
the body

the prostate is actually involved with many things including if i remember correctly from my anatomny class in the bulk of sperm in ejaculation sorry if my response made anyone squemish im in nursing school so i lost that "EWW reaction" forgive me on that and also the appendix and pyers patches what about them we actually found they produce b cells which are pivitalin immune defense with out bcells you have something called brutins disease. a while ago they saw in kids a huge thing that looked like it may cause the treachea to close up turned out to be the thymus thaat produces t cells they go along with b cells for immunity this is called digearge syndrome and if you have neither you have to live in a bubble this is called SCID. the complexity is so complex it becaomes simple. before you discredit that look at the way the immune system works. the first line is your skin but im going to bypass it the immune system uses the b and t cells to fight off infection in a couple ways first it uses mhc which is on all cells to determine what the invader is the action tree that follows is simple either it uses the compliment system which calls antibodies if it goes to c3b or lysis of the cell if it goes to c9 thats only one branch but i feel like you may stop reading if i continue. the other simplicity of the complex is the memory system the first time you see a invader the body sends out igm then it later sends out igg the next time you get that invader trying to infect you the first thing that comes out is igg the memory cell. the system is so complex that it makes it simple in a way at least how i see it


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
science

the thing is yes maybe we will figure it out that doesnt mean that a deity did not make it so. the answer as to what would have created God or another deity i do not know and will admit that. but i feel the probality of this just occuring by chance is not a rational choice


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
to respond directly to the op

Why is atheism better? 

I prefer to base my beliefs on repeatable, verifiable evidence.  This way I have a good chance that my beliefs will be in line with reality.

If I base my beliefs on faith, or a book written 3000 years ago by pastoralists (nomadic herders) or early agriculturalists, I have next to no chance of basing my beliefs on what is actual reality.  Give the authors of the world's holy books a break.  They didn't know about single cell organisms, let alone DNA.  They didn't understand 1,000,000 - how could they understand 13,000,000,000+ - the likely age of the universe.  They didn't have zeros.  They didn't know the earth revolved around the sun.  They didn't know about ecological systems.  Physics.  Chemistry.  Geology.  And so on.  How could they write a book that was a true reflection of reality?

They could not.  They did what they could with what they knew.  But the results are a long ways away from any sort of reality that would get us automobiles, computers, the internet ---- indoor plumbing!  Until and unless there is verifiable repeatable evidence of a god, I'm sticking with demonstrable results.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Cpt_pineapple
atheist
Cpt_pineapple's picture
Posts: 5492
Joined: 2007-04-12
User is offlineOffline
speaking of prostates, how

speaking of prostates, how big is god's dick?

 

 

 


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
the universe

Yes thats what some people believe so when one of my teachers in high school proved young earth with the theory of carbon dating i was intrigued. he used physics to prove how the age of the earth would be thought to be millions. first there is red shift we can see the universe expanding but think about how in the beginning the condensed violotile extremely high temperature high motility of the contains all are catalysts so you cant prove that age right with out taking in the concideration that time may have been different back then a year being a minute rather than what we belief today.


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
idk

no idea if he is even a gender maybe he used that idea so that we could reproduce


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:the

illures1234 wrote:

the prostate is actually involved with many things including if i remember correctly from my anatomny class in the bulk of sperm in ejaculation sorry if my response made anyone squemish im in nursing school so i lost that "EWW reaction" forgive me on that and also the appendix and pyers patches what about them we actually found they produce b cells which are pivitalin immune defense with out bcells you have something called brutins disease. a while ago they saw in kids a huge thing that looked like it may cause the treachea to close up turned out to be the thymus thaat produces t cells they go along with b cells for immunity this is called digearge syndrome and if you have neither you have to live in a bubble this is called SCID. the complexity is so complex it becaomes simple. before you discredit that look at the way the immune system works. the first line is your skin but im going to bypass it the immune system uses the b and t cells to fight off infection in a couple ways first it uses mhc which is on all cells to determine what the invader is the action tree that follows is simple either it uses the compliment system which calls antibodies if it goes to c3b or lysis of the cell if it goes to c9 thats only one branch but i feel like you may stop reading if i continue. the other simplicity of the complex is the memory system the first time you see a invader the body sends out igm then it later sends out igg the next time you get that invader trying to infect you the first thing that comes out is igg the memory cell. the system is so complex that it makes it simple in a way at least how i see it

 

I'm not squeamish.  My husband worked as a sanitarian - we used to have discussions about other people's shit at the dining table. 

I am not in the medical field, so I am not real up on the details of the immune system.  But I get what you are saying.

But really, so complex it is simple?  No.  So complex it fails.  Think about autoimmune disorders.  Why would your body be "designed" to attack itself?  And while developing immunity is a good thing, it would be very nice not to have to develop immunity at all.  I am old enough - I'm turning 62 shortly - that there was no MMR vaccine when I was young.  And so I had rubeola, rubella, mumps, and chickenpox.  I darn near died of rubeola - temp 105 on three occasions and 6-8 weeks in a darkened room, no TV or books.  I was 7 and I remember most of it still.  Being packed in alcohol and ice water will leave a lasting impression.  I vote for no viruses to begin with - so no immunity necessary - so fewer people die or are crippled.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


Sapient
High Level DonorRRS CO-FOUNDERRRS Core MemberWebsite Admin
Posts: 7573
Joined: 2006-04-18
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:But how is

illures1234 wrote:

But how is it rational that nothing created us

Your parents created you.  

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=abiogenesis

 

Please donate to one of these highly rated charities to help impede the GOP attack on America 2017-2019.

Support our activism efforts by making your Amazon purchases via this link.


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:Yes thats

illures1234 wrote:

Yes thats what some people believe so when one of my teachers in high school proved young earth with the theory of carbon dating i was intrigued. he used physics to prove how the age of the earth would be thought to be millions. first there is red shift we can see the universe expanding but think about how in the beginning the condensed violotile extremely high temperature high motility of the contains all are catalysts so you cant prove that age right with out taking in the concideration that time may have been different back then a year being a minute rather than what we belief today.

 

You have my sympathy for having such an ignorant instructor.

If you really want to learn, this website has a detailed discussion of how the idea of time or the speed of light being faster in times past is physically impossible.

http://gondwanaresearch.com/hp/adam.htm

My apologies if the cartoon at the start of the article is offensive, but the details of the physics in this article are accurate and demonstrate why this idea could not be true.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


latincanuck
atheist
latincanuck's picture
Posts: 2038
Joined: 2007-06-01
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:I would

illures1234 wrote:

I would like to hear your points and your supports of why you believe them

I don't think it is better or worse, it is merely the logical and reasonable conclusion I have arrived after seeing the explanations for god and various other deities. There is no proper evidence and no compelling argument so far. Just because someone wants to believe doesn't mean it is real nor does it make a better person. Using the doctrine of christianity it has lead to the death of millions in africa because of the dogmatic beliefs regarding sex and procreation it has lead to the high infection of HIV and poverty in Africa (there are more factors as well but where the church could have lead out of poverty and infection instead it heaped ignorance)


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
reputable

to let you know i am a christian and the reasons i am doing this are one to honestly understand where you are coming from and two to use in a paper. but also i feel that i will be able to use this knowledge gained through this throughout my life. i honestly have doubts about the bible aswell because of how much was and is being changed there were books actually removed from it. but to be honest the choice i made to me is logical. first the world is to complex for it to happen by chance the probality is past a googlplex second to me christianity is a rational choice because it doesnt use a deity for each specific thing and that to me makkes more sense. the evidence is that it has survived this long with out being completely with out a doubt debunked. science to me was a way i believe  God gave us to further ourselves and honor him more. the death and disease all around us was our own fault in my opinion it sucks but i accept it and try to do my best to ameilerate it. but the fault is mans not Gods he gave us free will and we took it to the pawn shop and asked how much can i get for this. there are and were false teachings such as when the church higher ups were the only ones who could read the bible and so used it to their own appetites. there are many psuedo christians today aswell that further the belief that christians are in a sense mean i hate when someone answers a question no your just wrong im sorry if i or anyone else has done that to you. i also abhor anyone who uses the bible or religion for money or other worldly materials. i have looked at atheism aswell i want to understand why a atheism has this belief and the same goes for other religions. however im not doing this to rip them apart and call them idiots but to see why thats what they believe. i believe in God because i have seen miricales i have seen tragety and i have seen the path the world is on. I would be lying if i said i am not afraid of what comes after and that is part of my decision honestly but also the evidence ive seen and heard to me points to this religion. and for you it pointed to your religion.


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
thank you

I have learned alot from doing this thank you for repling in a way that was not just you are wrong i am sorry that i am leaving at this point but i have two finals tomorrow and must study if i can return i will continue I hope i did not offend anyone with what i said. i also am only a 19 year old guy in college who always hadd problems with athurity and because of that and where i attended school i had your wrong shoved at me alot. i do take offense for the statement about my teacher i hope you will see on how i acted with you not making judgments condemning you as wrong but giving possibilities on why I belive it may be flawed and asked for the same. but to say he was ignorant is in itself ignorant you have no idea what he has done so honestly you should not judge him. lol to use a bible quote that you dont have to look at in a theistic way you first must take the log out of your eye before taking the spec from theirs. not exact sorry but close enough to give the point that i believe it was saying.

 


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
thank you

I have learned alot from doing this thank you for repling in a way that was not just you are wrong i am sorry that i am leaving at this point but i have two finals tomorrow and must study if i can return i will continue I hope i did not offend anyone with what i said. i also am only a 19 year old guy in college who always hadd problems with athurity and because of that and where i attended school i had your wrong shoved at me alot. i do take offense for the statement about my teacher i hope you will see on how i acted with you not making judgments condemning you as wrong but giving possibilities on why I belive it may be flawed and asked for the same. but to say he was ignorant is in itself ignorant you have no idea what he has done so honestly you should not judge him. lol to use a bible quote that you dont have to look at in a theistic way you first must take the log out of your eye before taking the spec from theirs. not exact sorry but close enough to give the point that i believe it was saying.

 


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
thank you

I have learned alot from doing this thank you for repling in a way that was not just you are wrong i am sorry that i am leaving at this point but i have two finals tomorrow and must study if i can return i will continue I hope i did not offend anyone with what i said. i also am only a 19 year old guy in college who always hadd problems with athurity and because of that and where i attended school i had your wrong shoved at me alot. i do take offense for the statement about my teacher i hope you will see on how i acted with you not making judgments condemning you as wrong but giving possibilities on why I belive it may be flawed and asked for the same. but to say he was ignorant is in itself ignorant you have no idea what he has done so honestly you should not judge him. lol to use a bible quote that you dont have to look at in a theistic way you first must take the log out of your eye before taking the spec from theirs. not exact sorry but close enough to give the point that i believe it was saying.

 


danatemporary
danatemporary's picture
Posts: 1951
Joined: 2011-01-12
User is offlineOffline
Is this good-bye ???

   If youre about I left a question at the thread called: Christianity / Atheist which is logical

Christianity / Atheism which is logical

 


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4898
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
I normally won't reply to

I normally won't reply to this sort of question because it is usually pointless, but your demeanor is easy and open so I feel you are being sincere.

1 - Atheism is better only for me. It might not be better for you.

2 - I used to wonder "how could I be here if nothing created us?" It was the one question which actually held me from committing to full blown atheism. Then one day I realized, "Eureka! There doesn't need to be a almighty creator to make the universe. It all happens over and over and over again. No beginning. No ending".

I can exist with out purpose. I can exist with out a god.

3 - If you had a teacher who taught you that the earth was 6,000 years old they were being ignorant and biased about their views. They were forcing their religious belief on to others for the reason of supporting their personal delusions. They did not use science, they used falsehoods, to present their opinion.

4 - The human body is amazing, but so are many, many other things in this universe. There are so many amazing things in this universe that I can't even begin to explain here on this forum at how many times I've flipped out over learning new and amazing things. Yet, none of these amazing things in the universe or the human body prove the existence of a creator.

5 - Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof?

Why does "god" hate amputees? Why is it there is ZERO amputees who can prove they had lost a limb and had it grow back through prayer? None. NONE!

Yet, thousands of people claim to be cured of cancer or to come out of a coma because they "prayed to god". This is hogwash. Stop fooling yourself. No one has every been cured by a god because they prayed to that god.

6 - Why is it that religious followers believe their religion is the one, the absolute, the truthful religion? It's because they have faith and not facts as evidence.

Christians often ask me to "prove their god doesn't exist". While it would be easy to say, "The burden of proof is on the person making the claim" I simply ask them, "Please disprove all other religions and their gods with out using faith that your holy book is the only source of authority on the subject".

And on a side note, "I don't make claims that any god exists or doesn't exist. I claim that all evidence points to all religions being complete and udder nonsense, created by man to explain that which they could not explain; to help humans feel comfortable while sitting by the camp fire wondering what made those growling sounds in the darkness.

Conclusion:

Follow your path because it is right for you, but be reminded that every one else has the right to follow their own belief. No one should be allowed to force their belief or ideology on to others. No torture. No fighting. No abuse. No submission.

 

 


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4898
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
cj wrote:You have my

cj wrote:

You have my sympathy for having such an ignorant instructor.

If you really want to learn, this website has a detailed discussion of how the idea of time or the speed of light being faster in times past is physically impossible.

http://gondwanaresearch.com/hp/adam.htm

My apologies if the cartoon at the start of the article is offensive, but the details of the physics in this article are accurate and demonstrate why this idea could not be true.

 

I had seen other websites with similar science proving that "young earth" supporters were just being plain stupid.

Loved the site you provided and have saved it.

LOL.

At the time of Noah's "flood" the temperature of the rock would have been 40,000 C/km. HAHAHA. There was no water so maybe there was a vapor canopy. HAHAHAHAHAHA.

 


blacklight915
atheist
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:and for

illures1234 wrote:

and for you it pointed to your religion

Not everyone has a religion, you know.

 

illures1234 wrote:

i do take offense for the statement about my teacher...to say he was ignorant is in itself ignorant you have no idea what he has done

Look, unless he's found some serious flaws in EVERY method used to date the earth, it doesn't matter what he's done. 

What subject did he teach?

 


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
physics

He was a physics teacher. and to say that he is just out right wrong with no knowledge of what he has done is to me a insult to me as well as him i take it personally. as for me getting in a sense brain washed into what my beliefs are I was the only one to ever question the teachers in my school and prove them wrong respecfully of course. I still do it in college i called my ethics teacher out on many things. if it were him talking now he would be very absolute and be saying you are wrong every 5 seconds. that is one of the reasons religion to day is in many cases fake

and thank you for replying i did not say that God will cure ailments by praying to Him Thats not what i believe. I believe we have such things because we choose them. no one wants to hear that but honestly i believe it to be a fact we are the ones to bring disease and war on ourselves not God. the other thing i believe is that the religion practiced today is a shell of what it should be. and we all have religion because religion is a set of beliefs that define the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. so atheism is the belief there is no God but it is religion.


illures1234
Posts: 17
Joined: 2012-12-13
User is offlineOffline
cj

This is where i differ from many christians. i am not here to try to convert you but to understand another side of the coin. People who force religion on others is to me naive and wrong. I dont believe in forcing religion if someone wants to talk to me about converting im open but i do not believe in going up to someone and saying you are stupid you have to be a christian/ i apologize if you have had that happen. as for other religions i connot disprove them with what i know now and i might never be able to but i am willing to learn about them and look at it from their side as well and give points as to what i believe and look at their points as i am doing now for Atheism.


blacklight915
atheist
blacklight915's picture
Posts: 544
Joined: 2011-12-23
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:to say

illures1234 wrote:

to say that he is just out right wrong with no knowledge of what he has done is to me a insult

Ok, well, has he found serious flaws in the mainstream methods used to date the earth?

 

illures1234 wrote:

we all have religion because religion is a set of beliefs that define the cause, nature and purpose of the universe

But, our beliefs don't determine the cause, nature, or purpose of the universe--reality does.

 

illures1234 wrote:

so atheism is the belief there is no God but it is religion

Incorrect, "atheism" is properly defined as "the lack of belief in god(s)". Furthermore, it is neither a religion nor a worldview, but a position on a set of claims.

 


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote: He was a

illures1234 wrote:

He was a physics teacher. and to say that he is just out right wrong with no knowledge of what he has done is to me a insult to me as well as him i take it personally. as for me getting in a sense brain washed into what my beliefs are I was the only one to ever question the teachers in my school and prove them wrong respecfully of course. I still do it in college i called my ethics teacher out on many things. if it were him talking now he would be very absolute and be saying you are wrong every 5 seconds. that is one of the reasons religion to day is in many cases fake

and thank you for replying i did not say that God will cure ailments by praying to Him Thats not what i believe. I believe we have such things because we choose them. no one wants to hear that but honestly i believe it to be a fact we are the ones to bring disease and war on ourselves not God. the other thing i believe is that the religion practiced today is a shell of what it should be. and we all have religion because religion is a set of beliefs that define the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. so atheism is the belief there is no God but it is religion.

 

What I am about to say is insulting as all get out.  He got his degree out of a cracker jack box.

Seriously.  I don't care if you tell him I said so - he can brush off comments from a stranger on the internet.  But personally, I wouldn't take a physics class from him, nor would I believe a word he said after that.

I don't believe we bring viruses, diseases, illnesses on ourselves - dude, if you are truly studying nursing, can I please request a different nurse?  Thanks.

American Heritage Dictionary:

Quote:

re·li·gion  audio  (r-ljn) KEY 

NOUN:

    1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
    2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
  1. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
  2. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
  3. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

You may be able to stretch definition #4 to include atheism.  It is not the usual take on what one means when one says one belongs to a religion.  It is more in the sense of "he religiously took a bath every day."   In that sense, it isn't particularly devotional, though I believe daily baths are a necessity.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


cj
atheistRational VIP!
cj's picture
Posts: 3330
Joined: 2007-01-05
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:This is

illures1234 wrote:

This is where i differ from many christians. i am not here to try to convert you but to understand another side of the coin. People who force religion on others is to me naive and wrong. I dont believe in forcing religion if someone wants to talk to me about converting im open but i do not believe in going up to someone and saying you are stupid you have to be a christian/ i apologize if you have had that happen. as for other religions i connot disprove them with what i know now and i might never be able to but i am willing to learn about them and look at it from their side as well and give points as to what i believe and look at their points as i am doing now for Atheism.

 

Researching and expanding your knowledge is never a bad thing.  And believe or not, I have researched religions.  I have been a member of church.  I have gone to adult bible study classes.  Really, truly, I wanted to believe.  But it was just too weird.  Swallowed by a whale and Job lived through it?  I don't think so.  Healed by laying on of hands?  Well, the placebo effect can only take you so far.  Woman created from Adam's rib?  Since men and women have the same number of ribs, I don't think so.  And so on.  If god/s/dess really wants me as a follower/worshiper, s/he/it/they have to update their manual.

Now, I did not and do not have the feeling you are trying to convert me - though many have before and many would still like to do so.  I am only attempting to answer your questions as honestly as possible.  If you want my opinion on something, I will cheerfully give it to you.  Though you may not be particularly cheerful about my response.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4898
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:He was a

illures1234 wrote:

He was a physics teacher. and to say that he is just out right wrong with no knowledge of what he has done is to me a insult to me as well as him i take it personally. as for me getting in a sense brain washed into what my beliefs are I was the only one to ever question the teachers in my school and prove them wrong respectfully of course. I still do it in college i called my ethics teacher out on many things. if it were him talking now he would be very absolute and be saying you are wrong every 5 seconds. that is one of the reasons religion to day is in many cases fake

and thank you for replying i did not say that God will cure ailments by praying to Him That's not what i believe. I believe we have such things because we choose them. no one wants to hear that but honestly i believe it to be a fact we are the ones to bring disease and war on ourselves not God. the other thing i believe is that the religion practiced today is a shell of what it should be. and we all have religion because religion is a set of beliefs that define the cause, nature and purpose of the universe. so atheism is the belief there is no God but it is religion.

I can't help but chuckle when I hear people use the term 'insult' incorrectly. Insulting a person is one thing, but being insulted is another. How dare you claim that any one insulted you. Who are you to assume that it was meant as an insult.

See what I mean? See how it works? How do you know it was meant as an insult? You can definitely say, "I am insulted by your opinion" but you can not say "what you said was an insult" because that person might not have meant it as an insult. It is only through your ego driven opinion that you attack.

As for your "teacher", no one here is saying it is illegal to teach this opinion, but we definitely are saying it is incorrect in the context of the subject. Scientifically they are incorrect because of the overwhelming evidence against the earth being 6,000 years old.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Evidence_against_a_recent_creation

I mean, this evidence is only the tip of the iceberg. There is an avalanche of information to say that, "Yes, the earth is 4.5 billion years old. So your "teacher" was ignorant for teaching this opinion.

As for "Praying to god to heal aliments", huh.. excuse me... you asked the question "Please explain why atheism is better than theism".

I gave you the example of prayer not working. Prayer does not work and that was one of the reason why atheism is better than theism. I don't pray that some sky man is going to interceed in my life and help me out. I don't blame some unseen devil for my problems. I take responsibility for my actions. So yes, atheism is better than theism because of the lack of prayer.

No. Atheism isn't a religion. If you look at the etymology of the word you will see where the origins come from and how the world has become a misnomer; constantly warped by society to encompass a larger variety of beliefs.

 


digitalbeachbum
atheistRational VIP!
digitalbeachbum's picture
Posts: 4898
Joined: 2007-10-15
User is offlineOffline
cj wrote:Researching and

cj wrote:
Researching and expanding your knowledge is never a bad thing.  And believe or not, I have researched religions.  I have been a member of church.  I have gone to adult bible study classes.  Really, truly, I wanted to believe.  But it was just too weird.  Swallowed by a whale and Job lived through it?  I don't think so.  Healed by laying on of hands?  Well, the placebo effect can only take you so far.  Woman created from Adam's rib?  Since men and women have the same number of ribs, I don't think so.  And so on.  If god/s/dess really wants me as a follower/worshiper, s/he/it/they have to update their manual.

Now, I did not and do not have the feeling you are trying to convert me - though many have before and many would still like to do so.  I am only attempting to answer your questions as honestly as possible.  If you want my opinion on something, I will cheerfully give it to you.  Though you may not be particularly cheerful about my response.

LOL... "update their manual"... hahahahaha seriously, they are way out of touch with their minions.

 


Joker
atheist
Joker's picture
Posts: 180
Joined: 2010-07-23
User is offlineOffline
I suppose I'd argue it's

I suppose I'd argue it's better because it's ultimately more honest. Atheism can be kind of scary if you grew up a believer, I remember early on periodically getting my head around the fact that there was no one running things, that there was no plan, that there was no backup. I'm a relatively orderly person and this realization was pretty distressing. But I still wouldn't go back, because the fact is that there is no evidence or proof for any kind of divine being. There is no reason to believe that such a creature exists or, for that matter, cares about what we do, when we do it, or why we do it. The various holy texts are contradictory and are often surpassed by the works of other people, were a divine and perfect being to put out a book there would only be one. It would not only be consistent with what we knew it would also be able to show us things we didn't without having to handwave or juggle and rationalize. It wouldn't need interpretation and would be universally accepted upon reading it as no mere human author could compete with it.

Also, if our world were designed then the designer is either incompetent or malicious. Aside from the multiple failure points in the human body let's look at ones in other bodies, as well as things like potent diseases. This doesn't even get into the problems of an afterlife in terms of how it affects morality and how we even define morality in terms of how we compare it to a deity.


Ktulu
atheist
Posts: 1831
Joined: 2010-12-21
User is offlineOffline
illures1234 wrote:I would

illures1234 wrote:

I would like to hear your points and your supports of why you believe them

Well this is an odd question.  I think you are confusing Metaphysics and Epistemology with Ethics.  If you hold a certain position regarding what exists (metaphysics), and how we know what exists (epistemology), you cannot logically do this based on a good or bad rating.  

Let me give you an example, if you look out the window and see a tornado moving towards a gathering of people, do you choose to think that there is no tornado there simply because it would be better for it to be so?

I think that you would use your sense to form a hypothesis regarding the phenomena you are observing.  You cannot use the moral implication to wish the tornado away. 

Likewise, we cannot logically believe in a god, be him/her/it more or less moral.  

A better question would be "why is it more logical to not believe in god?".  You can then use a few of the standard logical arguments that have been thrown at us repeatedly.  Such as the KCA, TAG... take you pick.

If I were you I would stick to philosophy, there is a lot more gray area.  The weak science approach is very easily refuted. 

 

"Don't seek these laws to understand. Only the mad can comprehend..." -- George Cosbuc


Atheistextremist
atheist
Atheistextremist's picture
Posts: 5130
Joined: 2009-09-17
User is offlineOffline
I was wondering recently

 

Ktulu wrote:

illures1234 wrote:

I would like to hear your points and your supports of why you believe them

If I were you I would stick to philosophy, there is a lot more gray area.  The weak science approach is very easily refuted. 

 

 

just how much christianity owes Greek and ancient christian philosophers for shaping so many of the key arguments. Such maunderings inevitably led me to consider whether or not the god concept of the Greek philosophers and their early christian students is adequately reflected in the various ideas of god found in relevant earlier Jewish writings and in the first christian gospels themselves.

It seems to me there are multiple ideas in the 'sources' none of which can be coherently connected with the others, and which do not correlate adequately with the conceptual ideas of the Greeks which would not have been familiar to ordinary folk. The entire debate over homoousios - the substance of god - which rent the early church, is the best reflection of the intense frisson between Joseph Campbell-like ideas of the heroic saviour-who-died-as-a-man of the comparatively uneducated Gnostic community and the earlier Pythagorean concepts of unsullied universal perfection and ultimate universal power espoused by classic philosophers. The jewish idea of deity is more ancient than either of these concepts. 

It's impossible to ignore the way christian doctrine strains with contradictions over the most fundamental aspects of the cult - including the very idea of deity and its asserted relationship with humans. In a real sense, I think the idea of jesus is a device by which ordinary enlightened people in the East attempted to winch the concept of god closer to themselves, a process rejected by the highly educated scholar politicians of Rome's West, who sought to take god and his son out of human hands - first with doctrine, later with language itself.

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


ex-minister
atheistHigh Level Moderator
ex-minister's picture
Posts: 1710
Joined: 2010-01-29
User is offlineOffline
AE, How would you compare

AE, How would you compare and contrast the ancient Judaic concept of God with the 2 noted christian views?

But even then there were at least at least two concepts. Yahweh, the war like god and elohim, the priestly god, if I remember correctly.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/