You go first, how long will this continue.

Brian37
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You go first, how long will this continue.

Once again the fighting has started up again in Palistine. You get pee shooter rockets, accusations that Hammas is using the population as human sheilds. You get Isreal over reacting. And death and continued fighting on both sides. When is the nation crap and religious crap and  politics going to stop?

Every decade since I was born in 66 this has been an issue. I am so sick of this shit and neither side is getting anywhere. Palistine has to give up on it's theocratic politics, and self police and get the violent people out of it's population. Isrial needs to give up on it's invasions and settlements.

It sickens me that people don't get tired of war and violence. How many humans on either side have to die before it becomes clear that it is futile? Neither side is gong anywhere. Humans are involved on both sides.

There was a time when someone could make a case that they were on the right side of history. But I do not see that. All I see is both sides playing victime lo9oking for excuses for more violence. I wish the international community would step in and settle this with peace keeping forces. Palistinians should not live in a prison, their every day civiliians should not be starved to death. But at the same time they also should not be held hostage by those in power.

Isreal needs to give up on a Jewish state and simply be a westerinized secular state. Palistinians need to purge their rulers of the theocrats and zealots. All labels aside flesh is flesh and death is death and this has been going on for far too long and has affected the entire global community for fart too long.

I am tired of the excuses. Both sides are baging their heads against the wall and getting nowhere simply pissing the other side off more. Is a boarder or a tradition or label so important as to fail to realize that in the end when someone dies on either side, you are STILL killing another human being.

 

We are mpt ;;ovomg om any nobal age of conquest anymore. The world is round, not flat. What you do Palistinians to Isreal has an affect on the world. What you do Isreal to Palistinians has an affect on the world. The selfishness and war sickens me because it seems to be nothing more than a cry for attention trying to get the rest of the world to side with one side.

 

PLEASE FUCKING STOP! You are just two groups of people on a populated planet of 7 billion. Please tell me what right either of you have to turn our planet into your childish game of capture the flag. It is my hope that the international commun9ity instead of chosing sides, SHAMES both sides int o cooperations.

 

There has been no end to this shit and I am beyond caring at this point as an outsider who has no horse in the race. This all stems from evolution and nothing more. We side as humans with that which we are familure with and defend it from outside threats. The problem is that there is an utter failure of the WORLD, not just both sides, BUT THE WORLD, to put enough pressure on both sides.

 

ENOUGH! What right does either side after all this and no end in sight have to cry "poor me". Reea;;y? You'd both take a scorched earth policy and drag the region and possibly the entire world int a war over what?

 

There should be no two state solution. I am at the point where I think both of you need to have your asses kicked, your leaders arrested and repl,aced with sane secular leaders.

 

Regardless of which side I lean to, I am not going to take sides when clearly both sides are ussing the same stupid tactics that simply perpetuate this needless conflict.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Lee2216
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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
This specifically refutes your supposition that he was unfairly discriminated against on the grounds of religion, and states quite clearly in the second paragraph that he has NO PSYCHOLOGICAL QUALIFICATIONS.

And judges ALWAYS reach the correct verdict? Witnesses never purger themselves? If you believe that I gotta bridge to sell you.

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
So I take it that you don't have anything scientific to back up your claims that life must only come from life. Care to rescind this claim then? Or stop using the work 'scientific' as if you know what it means?

So, you believe both of your parents were deceased when they conceived you? I don't believe I'm even having to ask you this question.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


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See Here ( notice Image)

 Re :: See Here

  See : Picture

  Planning on addressing points  anytime soon ?

 


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danatemporary wrote: Re ::

danatemporary wrote:

 Re :: See Here

  See : Picture

  Planning on addressing points  anytime soon ?

 

Perhaps I would address your points if they weren't veiled in sarcasm.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


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So, Lee2216, do you ever

So, Lee2216, do you ever plan on responding to my post on page five? (it's number 222)

I'm beginning to think you're ignoring said post because it challenges your cherished beliefs and you can't prove it wrong.

Maybe you'd like to prove the previous statement incorrect?

 


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dp

dp


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Lee2216 wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
This specifically refutes your supposition that he was unfairly discriminated against on the grounds of religion, and states quite clearly in the second paragraph that he has NO PSYCHOLOGICAL QUALIFICATIONS.

And judges ALWAYS reach the correct verdict? Witnesses never purger themselves? If you believe that I gotta bridge to sell you.

The issue here is you lied in saying it was for religious reasons when in fact it was because he committed fraud on the college. So it has been established both you and he are liars. Of course nothing else was expected.

Quote:
GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:
So I take it that you don't have anything scientific to back up your claims that life must only come from life. Care to rescind this claim then? Or stop using the work 'scientific' as if you know what it means?

So, you believe both of your parents were deceased when they conceived you? I don't believe I'm even having to ask you this question.

It not apparent if you are just stupid or deliberately lyind, i.e. being the liar you have shown you are, in not understanding the usage of the term abiogenesis as you introduced it. I default to stupidity absent evidence to the contrary.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


Beyond Saving
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Lee2216 wrote:danatemporary

Lee2216 wrote:

danatemporary wrote:

 Re :: See Here

  See : Picture

  Planning on addressing points  anytime soon ?

 

Perhaps I would address your points if they weren't veiled in sarcasm.

Well I for one honestly want to know how god defines murder. You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim and tell me what the objective morals are and define them objectively. It is pretty hard to take you serious and not be sarcastic with you when you fail to back up your claims. But, since this is a topic that truly fascinates me, I will avoid my instincts for sarcasm and continue asking straight forward questions. 

First, what is gods objective definition of murder. Or is gods definition subjective? (BTW, I am really curious about this so any other theist out there please feel free to tell me how god defines murder)

Second, what are the objective morals? Since the bible isn't very long at least by legal standards, could you please make a list for me of things that are moral and things that are immoral according to god? That way I won't be confused by things like slavery which most find today to be morally wrong but was apparently accepted by the bible. So please list them for me, thanks.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Well I

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well I for one honestly want to know how god defines murder.

Why are you asking me then? Ask God.

Beyond Saving wrote:
You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim

It is self-evident that murder is wrong and applies to all people at all places and at all times.

 

 

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


Lee2216
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blacklight915 wrote:So,

blacklight915 wrote:

So, Lee2216, do you ever plan on responding to my post on page five? (it's number 222)

I'm beginning to think you're ignoring said post because it challenges your cherished beliefs and you can't prove it wrong.

Maybe you'd like to prove the previous statement incorrect?

 

I responded in that post...you choose not listen because it challenges your cherished beliefs.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


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re:: Little early to be going into shut down mode

re:: Little early to be going into shut down mode

 

  To  #308 (the  one on this page, Lee's reply)    Wash your mouth out with soap. "How can I understand unless I have a teacher to teach me? (Acts  8 ) '" How consistent is it to start preaching and then do what you've done with Beyond on this page ? Any reason that causes you to limit your words to about 15-25 in length and refuse to compose an essay or at least quote some authority? What's with the  strange over-lapping phenomena on this board when it comes to the people representing the Bible on this board? Fear of Persecution, or general problems in following things ? Or You dont know and dont have a clue ? What are people left to think ? People judge christianity by the types of responses  you give, Lee. 

 

 

 post  script -- #281, ..; I remain unruffled by your confusion about me. Cool


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Lee2216 wrote:Beyond Saving

Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim

It is self-evident that murder is wrong and applies to all people at all places and at all times.

 

Unless, of course, you purchase a weapon and the ammunition and leave it lying around the house for the express purpose of shooting a total stranger.  Then it is self-evidently justified murder, aka self-defense.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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danatemporary wrote:at least

danatemporary wrote:
at least quote some authority

I've been quoting a lot of scripture but people here refuse to listen so it's best for me to go. Believers should not continue to preach to people who have rejected the gospel with contempt and scorn.

 Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you. (Matthew 7:6)

 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.(Matthew 10:14)

 Let them alone; they are blind guides. And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit. (Matthew 15:14)

 

When they had appointed a day for him, they came to him at his lodging in greater numbers. From morning till evening he expounded to them, testifying to the kingdom of God and trying to convince them about Jesus both from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. And some were convinced by what he said, but others disbelieved. And disagreeing among themselves, they departed after Paul had made one statement: “The Holy Spirit was right in saying to your fathers through Isaiah the prophet: “‘Go to this people, and say, “You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive.” For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed; lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.’ Therefore let it be known to you that this salvation of God has been sent to the Gentiles; they will listen.” (Acts 28:23-28)

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


blacklight915
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Lee2216 wrote:I responded in

Lee2216 wrote:

I responded in that post...you choose not listen because it challenges your cherished beliefs.

In what post?  This is the first time you've responded to me since I made post #222.

People should be okay with having their cherished beliefs challenged. Where is this response I ignored so that I may address it?

Also, the only cherished belief of mine you've challenged is my faith in humanity...

 

 


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Lee2216 wrote:Beyond Saving

Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well I for one honestly want to know how god defines murder.

Why are you asking me then? Ask God.

God doesn't talk to me. Since you claim that God talks to you, it makes sense for me to ask you.  

 

Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim

It is self-evident that murder is wrong and applies to all people at all places and at all times.

 

All people at all places and times? But you said the example where I as a soldier kill another soldier that is not murder. So obviously it does not apply to all people, all place and all times. And that is without considering the numerous instances of killing commanded by god in the bible. So was your first statement wrong or how do you define the distinction between killing and murder? I do not find it self-evident at all. 

I am beginning to think that you are not interested in attempting to seriously answer my questions, which is rather unfortunate. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


Lee2216
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blacklight915 wrote:Lee2216

blacklight915 wrote:

Lee2216 wrote:

I responded in that post...you choose not listen because it challenges your cherished beliefs.

In what post?  This is the first time you've responded to me since I made post #222.

#173 & #204 it's right there.

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


Lee2216
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Beyond Saving wrote: Lee2216

Beyond Saving wrote:

Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well I for one honestly want to know how god defines murder.

Why are you asking me then? Ask God.

God doesn't talk to me. Since you claim that God talks to you, it makes sense for me to ask you.  

 

Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim

It is self-evident that murder is wrong and applies to all people at all places and at all times.

 

All people at all places and times? But you said the example where I as a soldier kill another soldier that is not murder. So obviously it does not apply to all people, all place and all times. And that is without considering the numerous instances of killing commanded by god in the bible. So was your first statement wrong or how do you define the distinction between killing and murder? I do not find it self-evident at all. 

I am beginning to think that you are not interested in attempting to seriously answer my questions, which is rather unfortunate. 

Yes all people at all places and times? Everybody knows that taking a life without any justification is wrong. Since God knows our thoughts and our hearts He would know if a persons heart were evil or not so He would be justified in taking that persons life would He not? I think I told you in a previous post that self-defense would be justified but taking a life for no reason would not be justified. There is a different intent. We'll have to agree to disagree then. I would say you killing another soldier would be classified as self-defense although you may sneak up behind him without him knowing you have to do this otherwise he is going to kill you. So, I would define killing as lawfully taking a life i.e. death penalty. Murder would be unlawfully taking a life. We are commanded to follow the governing authorities according to scripture.

 Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.(Romans 13:1)

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. Romans 1:20


Beyond Saving
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Lee2216 wrote:Yes all people

Lee2216 wrote:

Yes all people at all places and times? Everybody knows that taking a life without any justification is wrong. Since God knows our thoughts and our hearts He would know if a persons heart were evil or not so He would be justified in taking that persons life would He not? I think I told you in a previous post that self-defense would be justified but taking a life for no reason would not be justified. There is a different intent.

Most people who commit murder have some sort of justification. It is rarely a random act and rarely done for kicks. So you are once again into subjective land determining which reasons are good and which are bad. 

 

Lee2216 wrote:

We'll have to agree to disagree then.

We can't "agree to disagree" if it is objective. You can't disagree on facts, either you are right or you are wrong, period. That is what "objective" means. The only way we can agree to disagree is if morality and the definition of murder is indeed subjective. We can agree to disagree about whether or not a painting is beautiful or ugly. We can't agree to disagree that if I jump naked out of the second story window of my house whether I will fall to the ground, one of us is right and the other is wrong.

 

Lee2216 wrote:

I would say you killing another soldier would be classified as self-defense although you may sneak up behind him without him knowing you have to do this otherwise he is going to kill you.

Or you could stay home and not be a soldier in which case that poor sap will never be a threat to you in your life. If he was on my homeland perhaps I could argue self defense, but as the aggressor it is absurd to argue self defense. If I go break into your house and you pull a gun on me, I can't then go claim self defense in my legal case, I was in your house. As an American soldier it is quite unlikely that anyone you kill will be on American soil.  

 

Lee2216 wrote:

So, I would define killing as lawfully taking a life i.e. death penalty. Murder would be unlawfully taking a life. We are commanded to follow the governing authorities according to scripture.

Oh, so the definition of murder just happens to be whatever our governing authority says? That is rather subjective. You will find that the definition of murder varies depending on which government authority there is. What about in the case of overthrowing a governing authority? From the British perspective the American Colonists were criminals guilty of murdering government officials. Which governing authority does god consider when deciding who will burn in hell for eternity?

 

Lee2216 wrote:
 

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.(Romans 13:1)

So God instituted all governing authorities? Including Hitler's Germany? Stalin's Soviet Union? Mao's China? So God is cool with slaughtering all the Jews as long as it is legal? In some countries it is perfectly legal to kill someone for being Christian. Is god cool with that?!? In the US it was perfectly legal to kill a slave, is god cool with that? 

That is hardly an objective definition of murder. You have made it completely subjective, depending on which governing authority you happen to live under, the whims of that particular authority and the date you live there. Throughout history, different governments have had all sorts of crazy definitions of what is murder and what isn't. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Lee2216 wrote:#173 & #204

Lee2216 wrote:

#173 & #204 it's right there

post #190 was my response to post #173, post #204 was your response to post #190, post #222 was my response to post #204, 206 and 212

At the beginning of post #222, I explain why I don't think the Bible passages you cite in post #204 support the claim you make in post #154. I was hoping you would clarify.

The last sentence of post #222 is in response to post #212, and the rest is addressing what you said in post #206.

Again, if you've addressed these things already, please show me where.

 


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Lee2216 wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:
Well I for one honestly want to know how god defines murder.

Why are you asking me then? Ask God.

Beyond Saving wrote:
You have claimed that morals are objective, so pretty please back up that claim

It is self-evident that murder is wrong and applies to all people at all places and at all times.

But you have just stated you have no idea what murder means. So how can you know anything about it?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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Re:: This Thread died .. Why ??

 

 Hey, What's the story. Lee's Okay right ?  This thread died..  (WHY) ?