Faith IS evidence
Offline Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence
When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ. Faith opens up doors you never knew existed. Faith is not blind belief. Blind belief is lack of faith.
You are always blaming God for what people do. Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult. They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter. There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him. They do things out of their human will.
Christ truely died for our sins. All we need is active faith to know and understand him.
This is a pointless hate crime of a website. It needs to be shut down.
You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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You assume ? Don't make me say it.
I don't assume. I prefer to ask questions. So can I have an answer please ?
What's wrong with my ethics ? Facts please, no more assumptions.
Inappropriate language
SARCASM
sex is an object rather than a gift for your spouse
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
LOLOLOL, if this was the extent of how "unethical" people were, the world would be close to perfect...
Could you provide some quotes where Anonymouse exhibits these behaviors?
Also, while it can be thought of as a gift, sex is an ACTION, not an object.
So you think sex with you is a "gift"? Is arrogance unethical like sarcasm? Given your lack of experience in that department I highly doubt you have the natural talent to be so good that you are gods gift to women.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
See, you and your lack of understanding of context. Sex is a gift for a husband and wife to share mutually. Thats where the physical bond between them occurs. Sex outside of that context is destructive.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Wow, are you serious? If you are, you're so utterly wrong that I cannot but laugh...
Prove to me my wrongness
and JCGADFLY, prove to me that Paul was some L. Ron Hubbard type character that forced people to write according to him. The entirity of the Bible says otherwise.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
??
What "inappropriate language" ? I asked you a simple question !
What sarcasm ?? You just assumed I was being sarcastic. You just assuming something doesn't make it so.
????
And now you're making assumptions about my sex life ????? And you accuse ME of being "inappropriate" ?
Would you perhaps like to apologize now ?
JLY -----> Saying something awesome about Paul's Epistles
JCGADFLY---------> "Well Paul contradicts the Gospels! He made a religion of his own"
JLY --------> Showing much scripture, documenting much continuity between Gospels and Epistles, primarily REPENTANCE being a central theme in the entire Bible.
JCGADFLY--------> "Uh! Well, the writers of the Gospel learned from Paul so that is why their writings mirror his!
JCGADFLY drowning in his own circular logic.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
In church, questioning is considered inappropriate language.
If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X
Says the guy who is using the Bible to prove that the Bible must be true.
There are these little things called Biblical history and textual criticism that you seem to like ignoring because they disagree with your God (who miraculously always agrees with you).
I'm using them. You're avoiding them because your definition of "context" is "does it agree with my God who agrees with me?"
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Not quite, sir circular logic, the Bible VERY CLEARLY SCREAMS REPENTANCE and not "im sorry" -sin again" "im sorry" -sin again "im sorry"-sin again. They even translated it into ENGLISH for you to understand, yet you are lost in your circular logic.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Circular logic again, JLY?
Jewish history says that Paul was exactly as you describe. He was a pagan who wanted to be a Pharisee but didn't have the intellectual chops. Because he couldn't make it as a Pharisee (he wound up working for a Sadducee High Priest - something no Pharisee would do) and couldn't convince the Jerusalem church of his belief that Jesus was a god he and his converts wrote their works to make Jesus' disciples look as bad as possible. That's why Peter looked like a dithering buffoon in Acts when Paul "withstood him to his face" - the incident likely never happened. That's why he and his converts lumped James and the Jerusalem church in with "the Jews" that were supposedly trying to kill him. Read some Maccoby - "The Mythmaker" comes to mind.
Then again, you think that history begins and ends with the Bible so...
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Again, that is contrary to one of your earliest, and the common atheist argument that the Gospels and Paul don't match. You came up with that one to try to fight the fact that I proved they do. unfounded. You are the ONLY person i know that has ever tried that claim.
Heh, I prove scriptural continuity of REPENTANCE and you automatically jump to "well, either they were contradicting themselves or Paul made them do it" -how sad you can't see.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Now you're putting up a straw man. I never said that the Gospels and Paul don't match. The gospel writers had all of Paul's works in front of them to work from
I said that the teachings of Jesus (some of which wound up unadulterated in the gospels that Paul's converts wrote) don't match the teachings of Paul.
That's a mistake on the part of the gospel writers - not a proof that Jesus and Paul agreed.
In fact - look here http://danizier.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/paul-vs-jesus-and-james/
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Every instance of consensual, enjoyable sex between humans who aren't husband and wife proves you wrong. You could start by talking with some committed, loving, homosexual couples.
I really doubt he'll apologize... I wish he would, but I'll be seriously shocked if he actually does.
TO: JesusLovesYou
You accuse atheists of being unethical, but I have PROOF you actually are. Making things up about people and stating them as fact is dishonest, JesusLovesYou. You should know this, unless your claim about Christians having superior ethics is also made up.
Of course he won't. He's only arrogant. Some of us are (gasp! horrors!) SARCASTIC.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I forgot to add #10...
1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.
2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.
3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.
4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.
5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.
6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.
7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.
8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.
9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.
10 - All religions need faith to function; without faith they would fail.
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Your religion, as well similar religions, need faith to function. While it can be said that people of that time period might have been able to see someone named "Jesus" speak, it was very similar to a guy down in Miami who claims to be the reincarnation of Jesus.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_who_have_claimed_to_be_Jesus (see Jose Luis de Jesus)
Now, sticking with just this one premise, no living person can claim to have been alive in the 1st century. They can't claim to have seen any of the "miracles" or "speeches". They must take these stories on faith that those actions actually took place.
They must take on faith that what the bible says is true.
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I would like to point out to you that I'm not debating your faith nor am I debating your religion.
I'm stating factual information based on observations and claims of theists.
All religions must have faith in order to survive.
You either have facts or you have faith, you can't have both.
Faith is evidence of the monotheist's willingness to accept objective assertions (god exists, god works in the world, god speaks to me, I have a soul, eternal life is real, heaven, hell, etc) without objective proof.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I sort of agree with this, but faith in itself is an illusion. Faith is merely an opinion and can change. People have changed gods. People have changed churches. People have given up their faith altogether.
Your 10 objective truths are meaningless. When you HAVE faith you HAVE evidence due to FAITH.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Circular argument.
Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for an answer.
Could you please explain why you make assumptions about the sex life of people you never met, while at the same time complaining about their ethics ?
A) its not a circular argument. Faith opens eyes to evidence. w/o faith evidence is not seen.
B) not an assumption. an experience.
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
A. Having faith that gives you evidence because you have faith that gives you evidence because you have faith? (that's your argument - I just stretched it out.)
How much more circular can you get?
B. Your personal experience is not an argument because you can't show it to others.
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Faith is only self evident.
The assumption was about other people's sex lives. How in the hell have you experienced them? An extraordinarily rude statement, to suggest my sex life is destructive.
Theists - If your god is omnipotent, remember the following: He (or she) has the cure for cancer, but won't tell us what it is.
By definition you are incorrect. Faith is to believe in a thing or person with out proof. Your own source speaks of faith and what it means to have faith. You have failed your own god. He will smite you down with much anger and resolve. You will suffer thousands of years in the pits of hell with your new master, Satan, who will have pleasures with you and torment you all the days and all the nights. Your family and your family's family will suffer with out knowing rest or success for your lack of faith. I have no pity for you. You are a failure.
First off, no I am not incorrect. You fail to see the context of Biblical faith b/c you are faithless. When one has faith, eyes are opened. Second, that is an unbiblical and paganistic view of Satan. He does not reign supreme in any firey pits, nor is he a tall red, horned creature. The Bible decribes him two ways, disguised as an angel of light, and a dragon. Hell is not his kingdom, but his prison. Hence is another reason you misunderstand faith. Faith breeds understanding. Any biblical scholar can prove to you that your obvious understanding of satan is unbiblical and incorrect
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
If faith is evidence, why do you reject the gods of every other religion? Why do you not believe in ghosts, aliens, or the New World Order conspiracy? There are people with very strong faith in these things.
who said i rejected any of that?
The NWO is written about in Revelation. other gods? people make gods out of anything and everything. All of you have made a god out trying to disprove the existance of God, people worship money as their god, same thing with tv, videogames, food, etc etc. As far as those mythological diety? Satan didn't fall alone. Many of the other fallen angels, like satan, because they are all like minded, could have very well tried to become holy and be worshiped.
Ghosts and Aliens? could care less
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
periculosæ plenum opus aleæ tractas, et incedis per ignes suppositos cineri doloso Horace
English Translation :
"the work you are treating is one full of dangerous hazard, and you are treading over fires lurking beneath treacherous ashes" (Horace)
p.s. -- Triple pun (tehehe)
you are one wierd cookie. what the heck?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Why does only your subjective personal faith equal universal truth?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
LOL
You are funny. Keep on going faithful man. One day you'll figure it all out, for now keep on chugging that kool-aid.
Faith is personal.
Faith is an opinion, it is an illusion.
So now you believe in other gods? Holy Shit Batman! You are definitely going to hell.
And before the NWO was in fashion as an interpretation for Revelation the Popes and Catholicism were the bad guys. It'll be something else later.
Indeed, people make gods out of anything and everything. How did your God become exempt from that (in spite of being made by men) and move to being real?
You could care less about ghosts but you worship one spirit and fear others? See anything wrong here?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
I was going to comment on your earlier point in relation to this - I'd probably argue faith is a delusion (a belief strongly held despite lack of or contrary evidence) rather than an illusion (a distortion of the senses) but metaphorically I'd agree that faith is illusory - being a conviction based on something that's not actually real. Of course, the jesus lover is not going to agree with us that faith is not actual 'proof' whatever the hell they think that means. God people are sandwich boards for the ambiguity of language.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
I can go either way with this and totally agree with you on your previous post.
As stated in my previous post, if you have faith it is your faith alone with out any one else. Sure, he can say "I believe in god" and the person down the street can say "I believe in god" but those statements are not universal. What he believes is "god" is different than the person who claims the same. It can not be the same in any sense.
They might say "We know our god through the scriptures" but then it takes you to another level of interpretation. What #1 interpretates is not always the same as #2. So you always have differences at different levels and phases. Neither an be exact each and every time.
They also miss the point about the definition of "faith".
Faith is definitely in need of "no proof" to exist. If you have proof of any part of your religion then you are no longer a person of faith.
This crap about having faith and then finding evidence in faith is complete and utterly bullshit. Once you have evidence then the faith is no longer needed. If you don't have faith then you fail your god.
Nonsense, I don't worship anything.
People in other religions are equally convinced the God they worship is the true one. Does their faith count as evidence they are right and you are not?
I did not ask if you cared; I asked if the faith people have in these things counts as evidence for their existence.
I find it hilarious when "christians" talk about Satan. They talk about him as if he was around since the beginning of mankind, but in reality, not even in Judaism does he exist. In fact, Christians are the only ones from the "Abrahamic" religions which believe in it.
Stupid fucking christians.
(edit)
Ok. Not all christians are stupid, but this one is definitely so.
Except where it says sin -> get forgiveness -> sin again. Did you completely forget Romans? How about Jesus' words in Matt 6:14 (oops - no repentance requirement and no time/occurrence limitation) Or are you just picking and choosing what you put into practice?
Lying is supposed to be a sin - when do you plan on repenting? Or are you just going to ask for forgiveness from your God without apologizing?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
my mother pulls this out on me regularly - if only you trusted jesus to show you his truth (faith) then you would completely believe in him without evidence (faith)...
There's something screwy about this - some cognitive short circuit.
I think of such an argument thusly: "If you believe then...you believe!"
Oh, it's giddy stuff.
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
It's actually a con game.
Ever watch James Randi explain how con people trick your brain in to thinking one thing by making you "give in to their trust"?
It's the same fucking thing. When you "give yourself to Jesus" you basically are "giving up free thought" when it comes to the big question, "Is this real or not"?
When a person gives up then they submit their selves to the control of an outside influence or their ego.
Yep. Short circuit. I agree.
beloved of jesus. What is a god? Your current definition seems to be an object dominating one's attention (money, TV, whatever). Is this your definition of a god, JLY? A TV? If so, is he LCD or LED?
"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck
Wrong? You have yet to demonstrate anything which can be described as "destructive" so you have in fact said nothing substantive. As for Paul, he was constrantly warning about the misleading teachings of the original apostles. Have you never read his letters? There was no one else to warn against.
Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.
www.ussliberty.org
www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html
www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml
A) But that's the oldest contrick in the book ! You can justify literally ANYTHING if you take your evidence on faith.
B) Oh for pete's sake....You have no experience with my sex life !!!!! So again, why are you making assumptions about it ??
Because he can lie, ask forgiveness and keep going? Because no matter how much he talks about repentance being so important to his god - he doesn't think it's important enough for him to take seriously?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin
Faith opens eyes to evidence that can't be seen (by definition of faith)?
"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin