Faith IS evidence

JesusLovesYou
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Faith IS evidence

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JLY, Around for this one or are you the board's X-tian Spam-bot

  Dude if you arent around, I aint bothering either . .  .  Like I mentioned to 'you' before, we all have a past (if we've been on this board) that follows us JLY  So What is it ?!?

  This website is the best Forum on the web, jackass! Like I said, you going to be around for this or not ?!??


JesusLovesYou
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for what?

for what?


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Indeed!

 Indeed!


JesusLovesYou
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you surely are an odd one

you surely are an odd one


Beyond Saving
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JesusLovesYou wrote:This is

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

Ah yes, we are so filled with hate that we run around websites that disagree with us at suggest they be shut down....

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

Ah yes, we are so filled with hate that we run around websites that disagree with us at suggest they be shut down....

 

who said anything about hate?  I don't hate anyone or anything.  I do not wish death upon anyone.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:Beyond

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

Ah yes, we are so filled with hate that we run around websites that disagree with us at suggest they be shut down....

 

who said anything about hate?  I don't hate anyone or anything.  I do not wish death upon anyone.

Um, you did read your quote. You said this website is a "hate crime" and should be shut down. Who said anything about wishing death? I think wanting to stifle speech is bad enough on its own and speaks volumes about your character.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


JesusLovesYou
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Beyond Saving

Beyond Saving wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

Ah yes, we are so filled with hate that we run around websites that disagree with us at suggest they be shut down....

 

who said anything about hate?  I don't hate anyone or anything.  I do not wish death upon anyone.

Um, you did read your quote. You said this website is a "hate crime" and should be shut down. Who said anything about wishing death? I think wanting to stifle speech is bad enough on its own and speaks volumes about your character.  

 

 

OOOH! THAT YOU HATE!  YES YES!

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:Beyond

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Beyond Saving wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

Ah yes, we are so filled with hate that we run around websites that disagree with us at suggest they be shut down....

 

who said anything about hate?  I don't hate anyone or anything.  I do not wish death upon anyone.

So either you are not a Christian or you are one that doesn't read the Bible?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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I hate sin...that goes

I hate sin...that goes without saying....but i don't hate the sinner.

I am truely a Christian and yes I read the Bible

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:Hebrews

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

"the evidence of things unseen" is not evidence because you can't share it.

I blame God for what he suggests to his followers (WBC probably follow the Bible more closely than you ever have). The Pharisees of history actually didn't care that much about the Jesus movement. In fact, Jesus espoused much of their teachings and was likely a Pharisee himself. The "Pharisees" of the Bible wer created by some anti-Jewish Greeks whose purpose was to make Paul and his religion look good.

I agree that you believe Christ died for your sins - in fact, that's why you are allowed to keep sinning. As long as you ask for forgiveness one time more than you sin in your life you're heaven bound.

I'm sorry that this site scares you so badly and makes you think about your faith so much that you feel it needs to be shut down to protect you.

Can you give an example of atheist ethics not matching their speech? I can provide plenty for the Christian side Oh, and atheism doesn't have morals - it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Atheists, however, have morals and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. With forgiveness, Christians never have to take responsibility for their actions - who's ethical again?

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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JesusLovesYou wrote:I hate

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I hate sin...that goes without saying....but i don't hate the sinner.

I am truely a Christian and yes I read the Bible

How can you hate what no longer applies to you?

Paul absolved the Christian of sin in Romans - I'm not even sure why you ask for forgiveness from Jesus.

You certainly don't have to from the people you "sin" against.

Not sure if I believe you have ever read the Bible - your positions are against what it says.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


JesusLovesYou
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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

"the evidence of things unseen" is not evidence because you can't share it.

I blame God for what he suggests to his followers (WBC probably follow the Bible more closely than you ever have). The Pharisees of history actually didn't care that much about the Jesus movement. In fact, Jesus espoused much of their teachings and was likely a Pharisee himself. The "Pharisees" of the Bible wer created by some anti-Jewish Greeks whose purpose was to make Paul and his religion look good.

I agree that you believe Christ died for your sins - in fact, that's why you are allowed to keep sinning. As long as you ask for forgiveness one time more than you sin in your life you're heaven bound.

I'm sorry that this site scares you so badly and makes you think about your faith so much that you feel it needs to be shut down to protect you.

Can you give an example of atheist ethics not matching their speech? I can provide plenty for the Christian side Oh, and atheism doesn't have morals - it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Atheists, however, have morals and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. With forgiveness, Christians never have to take responsibility for their actions - who's ethical again?

 

ok a couple things here.  If someone has to constantly ask forgiveness, they are not truely repentant.  Repentance is complete conversion. Completely turning from your sins to NEVER committ them again.  There is a thing called sanctification.  Sanctification means its a gradual process.  It takes a lifetime to remove all sin from our lives.  We are humans and it is our nature.  Nobody EVER said anything about not having consequences for our actions.  We reap what we sow.  its as plain as that.  Christ may forgive us of our sins, but we still have to reap the consequences of what we have done.  A murderer can be forgiven, but they are not gonna get off free.  They have to serve their time.  An adulterer may be forgiven, but secrets cannot be held, their spouse WILL find out and it will lead to divorce.  we reap what we sow.

Paul did not create any "new" religion.  He preached Christ.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

"the evidence of things unseen" is not evidence because you can't share it.

I blame God for what he suggests to his followers (WBC probably follow the Bible more closely than you ever have). The Pharisees of history actually didn't care that much about the Jesus movement. In fact, Jesus espoused much of their teachings and was likely a Pharisee himself. The "Pharisees" of the Bible wer created by some anti-Jewish Greeks whose purpose was to make Paul and his religion look good.

I agree that you believe Christ died for your sins - in fact, that's why you are allowed to keep sinning. As long as you ask for forgiveness one time more than you sin in your life you're heaven bound.

I'm sorry that this site scares you so badly and makes you think about your faith so much that you feel it needs to be shut down to protect you.

Can you give an example of atheist ethics not matching their speech? I can provide plenty for the Christian side Oh, and atheism doesn't have morals - it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Atheists, however, have morals and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. With forgiveness, Christians never have to take responsibility for their actions - who's ethical again?

 

ok a couple things here.  If someone has to constantly ask forgiveness, they are not truely repentant.  Repentance is complete conversion. Completely turning from your sins to NEVER committ them again.  There is a thing called sanctification.  Sanctification means its a gradual process.  It takes a lifetime to remove all sin from our lives.  We are humans and it is our nature.  Nobody EVER said anything about not having consequences for our actions.  We reap what we sow.  its as plain as that.  Christ may forgive us of our sins, but we still have to reap the consequences of what we have done.  A murderer can be forgiven, but they are not gonna get off free.  They have to serve their time.  An adulterer may be forgiven, but secrets cannot be held, their spouse WILL find out and it will lead to divorce.  we reap what we sow.

Paul did not create any "new" religion.  He preached Christ.

Repentance isn't a requirement for Christianity - belief is all that is needed. I thought you'd read the Bible? the writers who helped make Jesus a god said as much.

Matt 5:19 - "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever

practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

No repentance required.  The Bible stands against you.

Paul tried to make Jesus a god - that's a new religion.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


JesusLovesYou
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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

"the evidence of things unseen" is not evidence because you can't share it.

I blame God for what he suggests to his followers (WBC probably follow the Bible more closely than you ever have). The Pharisees of history actually didn't care that much about the Jesus movement. In fact, Jesus espoused much of their teachings and was likely a Pharisee himself. The "Pharisees" of the Bible wer created by some anti-Jewish Greeks whose purpose was to make Paul and his religion look good.

I agree that you believe Christ died for your sins - in fact, that's why you are allowed to keep sinning. As long as you ask for forgiveness one time more than you sin in your life you're heaven bound.

I'm sorry that this site scares you so badly and makes you think about your faith so much that you feel it needs to be shut down to protect you.

Can you give an example of atheist ethics not matching their speech? I can provide plenty for the Christian side Oh, and atheism doesn't have morals - it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Atheists, however, have morals and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. With forgiveness, Christians never have to take responsibility for their actions - who's ethical again?

 

ok a couple things here.  If someone has to constantly ask forgiveness, they are not truely repentant.  Repentance is complete conversion. Completely turning from your sins to NEVER committ them again.  There is a thing called sanctification.  Sanctification means its a gradual process.  It takes a lifetime to remove all sin from our lives.  We are humans and it is our nature.  Nobody EVER said anything about not having consequences for our actions.  We reap what we sow.  its as plain as that.  Christ may forgive us of our sins, but we still have to reap the consequences of what we have done.  A murderer can be forgiven, but they are not gonna get off free.  They have to serve their time.  An adulterer may be forgiven, but secrets cannot be held, their spouse WILL find out and it will lead to divorce.  we reap what we sow.

Paul did not create any "new" religion.  He preached Christ.

Repentance isn't a requirement for Christianity - belief is all that is needed. I thought you'd read the Bible? the writers who helped make Jesus a god said as much.

Matt 5:19 - "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever

practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

No repentance required.  The Bible stands against you.

Paul tried to make Jesus a god - that's a new religion.

Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized, every one of you, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 3:2 Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 From that time, Jesus began to preach, saying Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 6:12 And they went out and preached that men should repent <---Jesus told the disciples to do this

Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.

This is just a list of a few of a great deal more verses about repentance that were not preached by Paul (not that he is any less authentic about Christ)

You gave a good verse but missed the context of it.

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I hate sin...that goes without saying....but i don't hate the sinner.

I am truely a Christian and yes I read the Bible

How can you hate what no longer applies to you?

Paul absolved the Christian of sin in Romans - I'm not even sure why you ask for forgiveness from Jesus.

You certainly don't have to from the people you "sin" against.

Not sure if I believe you have ever read the Bible - your positions are against what it says.

 

 

Paul completely absolved the Christian of sin? really?

Yes, Paul did say we are free from sin, but in what context?  you gotta look at the context.  In Romans 6 when he states being set free from sin, the next verse he mentions sanctification.  John also mentioned sanctification, as did Luke; in the book of Acts, and the writer of Hebrews. 

Sanctification is purification, consecration.  Santification is a process...not an immediate action

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

"the evidence of things unseen" is not evidence because you can't share it.

I blame God for what he suggests to his followers (WBC probably follow the Bible more closely than you ever have). The Pharisees of history actually didn't care that much about the Jesus movement. In fact, Jesus espoused much of their teachings and was likely a Pharisee himself. The "Pharisees" of the Bible wer created by some anti-Jewish Greeks whose purpose was to make Paul and his religion look good.

I agree that you believe Christ died for your sins - in fact, that's why you are allowed to keep sinning. As long as you ask for forgiveness one time more than you sin in your life you're heaven bound.

I'm sorry that this site scares you so badly and makes you think about your faith so much that you feel it needs to be shut down to protect you.

Can you give an example of atheist ethics not matching their speech? I can provide plenty for the Christian side Oh, and atheism doesn't have morals - it is simply a lack of belief in gods. Atheists, however, have morals and have to deal with the consequences of their actions. With forgiveness, Christians never have to take responsibility for their actions - who's ethical again?

 

ok a couple things here.  If someone has to constantly ask forgiveness, they are not truely repentant.  Repentance is complete conversion. Completely turning from your sins to NEVER committ them again.  There is a thing called sanctification.  Sanctification means its a gradual process.  It takes a lifetime to remove all sin from our lives.  We are humans and it is our nature.  Nobody EVER said anything about not having consequences for our actions.  We reap what we sow.  its as plain as that.  Christ may forgive us of our sins, but we still have to reap the consequences of what we have done.  A murderer can be forgiven, but they are not gonna get off free.  They have to serve their time.  An adulterer may be forgiven, but secrets cannot be held, their spouse WILL find out and it will lead to divorce.  we reap what we sow.

Paul did not create any "new" religion.  He preached Christ.

Repentance isn't a requirement for Christianity - belief is all that is needed. I thought you'd read the Bible? the writers who helped make Jesus a god said as much.

Matt 5:19 - "Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever

practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

No repentance required.  The Bible stands against you.

Paul tried to make Jesus a god - that's a new religion.

Acts 2:38 Repent and be baptized, every one of you, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 3:2 Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Matthew 4:17 From that time, Jesus began to preach, saying Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mark 6:12 And they went out and preached that men should repent <---Jesus told the disciples to do this

Luke 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

Acts 3:19 Repent therefore, and turn back, that your sins may be blotted out.

This is just a list of a few of a great deal more verses about repentance that were not preached by Paul (not that he is any less authentic about Christ)

You gave a good verse but missed the context of it.

 

Either that or you just showed that the gospel writers couldn't keep their stories straight.

So should I believe Peter, Paul or he who you claim to be the son of your God? Kinda hard to tell when they contradict themselves. Especially when the guys who wrote the gospels and Acts wrote to make Jesus' disciples look like fools and Paul look pure as the driven snow.

The only thing Paul authentically wanted to do was replace Judaism and place himself as it's sole prophet. Romans 4:15 - where there is no law there is no transgression (sin)"

You missed the context where Paul eliminates sin. so either you can ask forgiveness and continue to sin (according to Jesus) or do what you want without worrying about sin or forgiveness (according to Paul).

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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re:: minute droplets of venom from our OP

{ JesusMightLoveYouButIsureAsHellDont wrote }

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

 You are always  .  .   'blaming God for what people did.'   You are always saying that 'Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult' 

 

  ?

  Feel the minute little droplets of venom.    Are you altogether feeling well ?  

 

 


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I hate sin...that goes without saying....but i don't hate the sinner.

I am truely a Christian and yes I read the Bible

How can you hate what no longer applies to you?

Paul absolved the Christian of sin in Romans - I'm not even sure why you ask for forgiveness from Jesus.

You certainly don't have to from the people you "sin" against.

Not sure if I believe you have ever read the Bible - your positions are against what it says.

 

 

Paul completely absolved the Christian of sin? really?

Yes, Paul did say we are free from sin, but in what context?  you gotta look at the context.  In Romans 6 when he states being set free from sin, the next verse he mentions sanctification.  John also mentioned sanctification, as did Luke; in the book of Acts, and the writer of Hebrews. 

Sanctification is purification, consecration.  Santification is a process...not an immediate action

 

What context do we need? Romans 4:15 is pretty clear. Romans 6 again just shows that he couldn't keep his story straight.

Sanctification is indeed purification and consecration - It is also not required for heaven (according to Jesus). It is required for the religion that requires you to go through Paul to be sanctified. Remember who wrote the gospels and Acts - these were Greek Christians converted by Paul who wanted to make their teacher look good and be seen as the sole source of Christianity. This is why the teacher Jesus went away and the god-man "Jesus Christ" took his place.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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You might condider (or consider)

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

That he didn't die "for" the world's state of sin, but rather on "account" of the world's sin.

You are under the Euro metal interpretive state. You should try the Ancient Hebrew state of mind. A different story altogether.  Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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You might condider (or consider)

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

That he didn't die "for" the world's state of sin, but rather on "account" of the world's sin.

You are under the Euro metal interpretive state. You should try the Ancient Hebrew state of mind. A different story altogether.  Smiling

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:JesusLovesYou

Old Seer wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews 11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

 

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

 

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him.

 

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

 

That he didn't die "for" the world's state of sin, but rather on "account" of the world's sin.

You are under the Euro metal interpretive state. You should try the Ancient Hebrew state of mind. A different story altogether.  Smiling

Or that a three-day weekend isn't "death" - especially when he got to go back and be God (and he knew that was going to happen).

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Hebrews11:1 Faith IS evidence

When you have faith, you have revelation. You gain knowledge of our forever loving God, Jesus Christ.  Faith opens up doors you never knew existed.  Faith is not blind belief.  Blind belief is lack of faith. 

Oh how nice of you, you can quote the bible.....still not evidence that god exists, and faith is definitely not evidence at all, especially if you are going to use the bible/torah as evidence that god exists. I see that you lack the understanding of what evidence actually means.....not surprising since you are using outdated material.

Quote:

You are always blaming God for what people do.  Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.  They are like the pharisees of Christ's time...adders of rules that don't matter.  There are many people on this earth that do things in the name of God that do not truely know Him.  They do things out of their human will.

umm no clue who you are exactly talking about, I do not blame god for what people do, I blame people and their ridiculous belief in a god or gods and the scriptures of their so called holy books which they follow or change their life/morals to follow. Westboro church is no different except that they have a more extreme interpretation regarding some passages in the bible (they forget the part that women have no authority over men and should keep their mouths shut, but like most christians they cherry pick which parts of the bible to follow)

Quote:

Christ truely died for our sins.  All we need is active faith to know and understand him

except he didn't die, he was supposedly ressurected as the myth goes as such he did not die.....i see you have reading comprehension issues as well.

Quote:

This is a pointless hate crime of a website.  It needs to be shut down. 

You keep claiming that atheism has morals, that its just as good as any religion etc etc etc.....but your ethics show otherwise

Christianity is a pointless and hate crime religion which has soo much blood on it's hands from raping of children to the genocide of various races throughout history (some recorded in it's own holy book) and it's leaders should be arrested for that and the religion banned, you keep on claiming chrisitans have morals that it is as good as any humanist ethics but your holy book and history and current ethics shows otherwise.


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There is no such thing as

There is no such thing as sin. No one died for magical comic book evil. And the morality of such an act is sick as a concept.

The god character forces you into a life you had no consent in entering, and blames you for the game he did not have to set up. Then he becomes a split personality skitzo, stallks you with bribes and commits a parlor trick fake suicide like a celebrity stalker with a gun to his own head "look what I did fory you".

You know what this shit gets you? Friends that when you tell them you have no money when you go out, you tell them no thanks, they still insist, then they pay, AFTER you told them you couldn't, then on the way home they get angry because you didn't pay.

 

Jesus is hardly a sacrafice as a concept claim. A sacrifice is losing something without asking for attention and never comming back or ever being noticed. The soilders of D day made a sacrifice. We will never know most of their names, and they will never come back to life.

God and Jesus as characters are narcissists out for their own self absorbed selfishness. Heros don't brag. If a god were truely selfless as a concept it would never care to advertise or have others advortise for it. And it wouldn't care about its own fame.

Not to mention there is no such thing as a disembodied being and babies are not born from godsperm and human flesh does not survive rigor mortis.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Quote:You are always blaming

Quote:
You are always blaming God for what people do

 

In what context? Since there is no such thing as a god we cant blame fictional things. But as a concept if one is playing "lets pretend", damned right.

Why do people sue companies for dangerous products? Why shouldn't the manufacturer be blamed for a dangerous product?

"Its not my fault you wrecked the car". Thight might be true if I was drunk or speeding. But if you build it knowing the breaks are defective and don't do a recall and I die and have kids who die with me, your thei idiot who would claim it was my driving.

Here is reality, the good and bad in life do not need to be explained by superstitious super heros or superstitious super villians.

There is no such thing as Muslim sin or Jewish sin or Hindu sin. There are just people who turn life into comic book superstition.

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
Check out my poetry here on Rational Responders Like my poetry thread on Facebook under BrianJames Rational Poet also on twitter under Brianrrs37


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JesusLovesYou wrote:You are

JesusLovesYou wrote:

You are always blaming God for what people do.  

You failed to recognize a basic concept. Atheist do not believe in god.

Your mind will answer most questions if you learn to relax and wait for the answer. - William S. Burroughs


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.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Westboro Baptist church is an ungodly cult.

Why don't you folks get your act together and speak with one voice before bringing your screaming matches before peacable people?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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JesusLovesYou wrote:.but

JesusLovesYou wrote:

.but your ethics show otherwise

 

 

??

What's wrong with my ethics then ? 

 


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I hate sin...that goes without saying....but i don't hate the sinner.

I am truely a Christian and yes I read the Bible

How can you hate what no longer applies to you?

Paul absolved the Christian of sin in Romans - I'm not even sure why you ask for forgiveness from Jesus.

You certainly don't have to from the people you "sin" against.

Not sure if I believe you have ever read the Bible - your positions are against what it says.

 

 

Paul completely absolved the Christian of sin? really?

Yes, Paul did say we are free from sin, but in what context?  you gotta look at the context.  In Romans 6 when he states being set free from sin, the next verse he mentions sanctification.  John also mentioned sanctification, as did Luke; in the book of Acts, and the writer of Hebrews. 

Sanctification is purification, consecration.  Santification is a process...not an immediate action

 

What context do we need? Romans 4:15 is pretty clear. Romans 6 again just shows that he couldn't keep his story straight.

Sanctification is indeed purification and consecration - It is also not required for heaven (according to Jesus). It is required for the religion that requires you to go through Paul to be sanctified. Remember who wrote the gospels and Acts - these were Greek Christians converted by Paul who wanted to make their teacher look good and be seen as the sole source of Christianity. This is why the teacher Jesus went away and the god-man "Jesus Christ" took his place.

See, exactly what I mean! you need the context.  Paul, here, is addressing circumcision.  He is writing to the Roman church, not Jews.  During the birth of the church there were Judaisers who said that laws, such as circumcision must be kept.  However Paul was referring back to Abraham, because he was counted righteous before he was given the covenant of circumcision (which was for HIS people, not gentiles).  Paul was saying that they do not need to be circumcised by law.  Genesis 15:6 states that the Lord counted Abram as righteous, circumcision was given in ch. 17.

Now chapter 6 Paul is specifically addressing sin. He said not to continue in sin.  Again, just as with the previous verses i brought up.  Repentance is a central theme.  Starting with John the baptist's preaching, it was understood that baptism is an act of REPENTANCE.  Paul was saying that our baptism, which is an act of REPENTANCE is comparative to Christ's death.  Unless you REPENT there is NO grace.  You have to understand the context of what Paul is saying. 

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT

you need to ask questions and find answers to things like, in chapter 4, why was there a circumcision issue? why were the Jews forcing the gentiles to be circumcised to convert?  Where does Abraham fit in this?  What did the new Christians understand about baptism? If you just pick a verse without looking at its surrounding context, and background, you will miss alot of what is really trying to be said.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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JesusLovesYou wrote:how

JesusLovesYou wrote:

how little you understand about faith

 

The "you just don't get it" excuse ? Really ?

 


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you understand about facts

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

He is an example of a strawman. He is there, but he can't do any thing but flop in the wind and rain; later only to turn moldy.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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Anonymouse

Anonymouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

how little you understand about faith

 

The "you just don't get it" excuse ? Really ?

 

The response is merely an act to not feel so lonely which is why facts are conveniently missing from the response.

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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digitalbeachbum

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

how little you understand about faith

 

The "you just don't get it" excuse ? Really ?

 

The response is merely an act to not feel so lonely which is why facts are conveniently missing from the response.

what facts are missing

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

You obviously cannot read what the Bible says.  Paul made reference to the law b/c the Jews tried to enforce Mosaic Law on the new Christian converts.  The promise of Abraham DID NOT come through the law.  Verses 1-8 of Genesis 17 is refering to a promise God has already made to Abraham BEFORE establishing circumcision.  This is the continued thought of Romans 4:13-25.  Its not a different topic.  I'm reading plain right out of the Bible, looking back and forth from OT to NT, finding the connections.  no "squares with my beliefs", just pure context that any dummy can understand.  

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

You obviously cannot read what the Bible says.  Paul made reference to the law b/c the Jews tried to enforce Mosaic Law on the new Christian converts.  The promise of Abraham DID NOT come through the law.  Verses 1-8 of Genesis 17 is refering to a promise God has already made to Abraham BEFORE establishing circumcision.  This is the continued thought of Romans 4:13-25.  Its not a different topic.  I'm reading plain right out of the Bible, looking back and forth from OT to NT, finding the connections.  no "squares with my beliefs", just pure context that any dummy can understand.  

Indeed there were Judaizers that tried to impose Jewish ceremonial law. That's not the issue that Paul is raising - otherwise he would have used the words. It's amazing how Paul is supremely intelligent when he agrees with you and a complete illiterate when he doesn't.

He says that the entirety of Mosaic law no longer applies to the believer - that includes the 10 commandments. His claim is that the whole of the law is being replaced by faith (aka belief) in the Christ he built.

So, my fellow dummy, would you like to look at Biblical context with me or do you wish to go with your "I'm right because god agrees with everything I say" view?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


JesusLovesYou
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jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

You obviously cannot read what the Bible says.  Paul made reference to the law b/c the Jews tried to enforce Mosaic Law on the new Christian converts.  The promise of Abraham DID NOT come through the law.  Verses 1-8 of Genesis 17 is refering to a promise God has already made to Abraham BEFORE establishing circumcision.  This is the continued thought of Romans 4:13-25.  Its not a different topic.  I'm reading plain right out of the Bible, looking back and forth from OT to NT, finding the connections.  no "squares with my beliefs", just pure context that any dummy can understand.  

Indeed there were Judaizers that tried to impose Jewish ceremonial law. That's not the issue that Paul is raising - otherwise he would have used the words. It's amazing how Paul is supremely intelligent when he agrees with you and a complete illiterate when he doesn't.

He says that the entirety of Mosaic law no longer applies to the believer - that includes the 10 commandments. His claim is that the whole of the law is being replaced by faith (aka belief) in the Christ he built.

So, my fellow dummy, would you like to look at Biblical context with me or do you wish to go with your "I'm right because god agrees with everything I say" view?

  That is the specific issue of that portion of Romans that Paul is raising.  There would be no other reason for him to address the lack of need of circumcision, but you completely struck out yet again.  Paul's whole point is this, again here is the central theme.  Follow the pattern here:  If a Christian is under GRACE they are REPENTANT.  Ill put this barney style for you.  The law is no longer a written set of guidelines, but values in the heart of a repentant person.  What need is a law to someone that won't break it?  Ill make it easy. I'm in the Navy.  The Uniform Code of Military Justice says adulty is illegal.  It is not in my heart, nor ever will be in my heart to cheat on my wife.  I'm not following a law, but values instilled in me from REPENTANCE.  its that simple.  You totally mis-read Paul

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:jcgadfly

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

You obviously cannot read what the Bible says.  Paul made reference to the law b/c the Jews tried to enforce Mosaic Law on the new Christian converts.  The promise of Abraham DID NOT come through the law.  Verses 1-8 of Genesis 17 is refering to a promise God has already made to Abraham BEFORE establishing circumcision.  This is the continued thought of Romans 4:13-25.  Its not a different topic.  I'm reading plain right out of the Bible, looking back and forth from OT to NT, finding the connections.  no "squares with my beliefs", just pure context that any dummy can understand.  

Indeed there were Judaizers that tried to impose Jewish ceremonial law. That's not the issue that Paul is raising - otherwise he would have used the words. It's amazing how Paul is supremely intelligent when he agrees with you and a complete illiterate when he doesn't.

He says that the entirety of Mosaic law no longer applies to the believer - that includes the 10 commandments. His claim is that the whole of the law is being replaced by faith (aka belief) in the Christ he built.

So, my fellow dummy, would you like to look at Biblical context with me or do you wish to go with your "I'm right because god agrees with everything I say" view?

  That is the specific issue of that portion of Romans that Paul is raising.  There would be no other reason for him to address the lack of need of circumcision, but you completely struck out yet again.  Paul's whole point is this, again here is the central theme.  Follow the pattern here:  If a Christian is under GRACE they are REPENTANT.  Ill put this barney style for you.  The law is no longer a written set of guidelines, but values in the heart of a repentant person.  What need is a law to someone that won't break it?  Ill make it easy. I'm in the Navy.  The Uniform Code of Military Justice says adulty is illegal.  It is not in my heart, nor ever will be in my heart to cheat on my wife.  I'm not following a law, but values instilled in me from REPENTANCE.  its that simple.  You totally mis-read Paul

and I'll make it even simpler for you - The "law written on the heart" is pretty much what the individual believer says it is. After all, there are as many views of god as there are believers.

As was said before - my "mis-reading" of Paul hasn't got anything to do with the Bible as it reads. That maintains my position. It is strictly and solely because I don't agree with what you think it says.

Still want to go with your version of Biblical context or would you like to hang out in reality for a bit?

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Anonymouse
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JesusLovesYou wrote:what

JesusLovesYou wrote:

what facts are missing

Try all of them. Didn't you read your own OP ?

Again, could you please explain what's so wrong about my ethics ? Using actual facts. Thank you.


JesusLovesYou
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Anonymouse

Anonymouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

what facts are missing

Try all of them. Didn't you read your own OP ?

Again, could you please explain what's so wrong about my ethics ? Using actual facts. Thank you.

Ok, here is a big one for you. SARCASM. your responses, and i assume your personality is full of sarcasm

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

what facts are missing

Try all of them. Didn't you read your own OP ?

Again, could you please explain what's so wrong about my ethics ? Using actual facts. Thank you.

Ok, here is a big one for you. SARCASM. your responses, and i assume your personality is full of sarcasm

Sarcasm is not an ethical problem. Believing you can do as you wish because you think a magic man in the sky loves you and shields you from consequences and responsibility - that's an ethical problem.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


JesusLovesYou
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Posts: 295
Joined: 2006-12-09
User is offlineOffline
jcgadfly wrote:JesusLovesYou

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

jcgadfly wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

digitalbeachbum wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
<gibberish>... Faith IS evidence... <more gibberish>

 

1 - Faith is to believe in a subject even when overwhelming evidence proves said faith to be false.

2 - Faith is both the strongest and the weakest link when it comes to any subject.

3 - Faith can not be proved or disproved.

4 - Faith only exists if you believe in it.

5 - Faith can be changed by merely changing your opinion on said faith.

6 - If you do have faith then attempting to prove said faith proves that you do not have faith.

7 - If you have faith then you can not have facts as supported references.

8 - If you have facts as supported references then you do not have faith in the subject.

9 - Faith is not universally true to all individuals, groups or ideology's.

 

how little you understand about faith

How little you know that his position is biblically supported.

 


 

in proper context?

Do you mean "proper context" as in "what the Bible says" or "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"?

Huge difference.

I can already see that you do not understand context, lest you would have seen the context of Romans 4:15 is specifically addressing circumcision, and that physical circumcision is not a requirement for salvation, as Abraham was counted righteous without it.

So "proper context" as in "squares with your beliefs"  instead of "what the Bible says" - good that we have that established. We won't get anywhere in the discussion but it's good to know where you stand.

The first 12 verses spoke on circumcision. The rest talked about the Law and how it was supplanted by faith for the believer. Just as Paul wanted to supplant Judaism with his new religion.

 

You obviously cannot read what the Bible says.  Paul made reference to the law b/c the Jews tried to enforce Mosaic Law on the new Christian converts.  The promise of Abraham DID NOT come through the law.  Verses 1-8 of Genesis 17 is refering to a promise God has already made to Abraham BEFORE establishing circumcision.  This is the continued thought of Romans 4:13-25.  Its not a different topic.  I'm reading plain right out of the Bible, looking back and forth from OT to NT, finding the connections.  no "squares with my beliefs", just pure context that any dummy can understand.  

Indeed there were Judaizers that tried to impose Jewish ceremonial law. That's not the issue that Paul is raising - otherwise he would have used the words. It's amazing how Paul is supremely intelligent when he agrees with you and a complete illiterate when he doesn't.

He says that the entirety of Mosaic law no longer applies to the believer - that includes the 10 commandments. His claim is that the whole of the law is being replaced by faith (aka belief) in the Christ he built.

So, my fellow dummy, would you like to look at Biblical context with me or do you wish to go with your "I'm right because god agrees with everything I say" view?

  That is the specific issue of that portion of Romans that Paul is raising.  There would be no other reason for him to address the lack of need of circumcision, but you completely struck out yet again.  Paul's whole point is this, again here is the central theme.  Follow the pattern here:  If a Christian is under GRACE they are REPENTANT.  Ill put this barney style for you.  The law is no longer a written set of guidelines, but values in the heart of a repentant person.  What need is a law to someone that won't break it?  Ill make it easy. I'm in the Navy.  The Uniform Code of Military Justice says adulty is illegal.  It is not in my heart, nor ever will be in my heart to cheat on my wife.  I'm not following a law, but values instilled in me from REPENTANCE.  its that simple.  You totally mis-read Paul

and I'll make it even simpler for you - The "law written on the heart" is pretty much what the individual believer says it is. After all, there are as many views of god as there are believers.

As was said before - my "mis-reading" of Paul hasn't got anything to do with the Bible as it reads. That maintains my position. It is strictly and solely because I don't agree with what you think it says.

Still want to go with your version of Biblical context or would you like to hang out in reality for a bit?

 

my version of Biblical context, no no no my friend.  The reality of the situation is that Paul is consistant with the rest of the Bible in preaching REPENTANCE.  Without REPENTANCE you are living by "law".  With a REPENTANT heart, a "rulebook" in no longer needed b/c when one REPENTS they turn COMPLETELY from their old ways, or as Paul says in Romans 6, remaining consistant, is that the old man, or old self dies.  Peter preached Repentance on the day of Pentecost.

John the Baptist baptized for REPENTANCE paving the way so that baptism was commonly understood as an act of REPENTANCE.

Jesus said in Mark 2:17 He came to call sinners to REPENTANCE, same thing in Luke 5:32

Christ said in Luke 24:47 that REPENTANCE and remission of sin be preached

Jesus said in Matthew 4:17 to REPENT for the Kindgom of Heaven is at hand.

Mark 6:12 The disciples preaching REPENTANCE

Acts 3:19 REPENT and be converted

Acts 8:22 REPENT of thy wickedness

2 Corinthians 12:12 Paul saying he will wail for those that have not REPENTED of their wickedness

You are missing one of the MOST CENTRAL themes of scripture! REPENTANCE is to turn away from your sin and never come back to it.  Never coming back to it means you don't do it anymore.  It is IMPOSSIBLE to REPENT of a sin and committ it again, b/c that would mean you didn't truely REPENT. Your logic of "as long as I repent i'm ok" and doing it again is FLAWED.

Your logic that PAUL contradicted the Gospels is flawed.  He did seldom use the word, yes, but he mentioned baptism ALOT, which is understood to be an act of REPENTANCE, so its automatically understood.

 

 

 

 

 

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


Beyond Saving
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

what facts are missing

Try all of them. Didn't you read your own OP ?

Again, could you please explain what's so wrong about my ethics ? Using actual facts. Thank you.

Ok, here is a big one for you. SARCASM. your responses, and i assume your personality is full of sarcasm

I don't think Anonymouse is being sarcastic, he is quite serious about his question. You claimed that all atheists are unethical and wants to know what he does that you believe is unethical. Sarcasm is what I was doing in my first post which apparently went over your head. Knowing that you think that sarcasm is unethical explains why you didn't get it. So why don't you start by finding some evidence of Anonymouse being sarcastic to you and then once you do that you can explain to all of us why being sarcastic is unethical. I'm pretty sure you are the first person I have ever heard say that sarcasm is unethical. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X