Are we better off?

digitalbeachbum
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Are we better off?

I'm a Republican. I have been since I was in high school because I am not one who believes in using abortion as a birth control procedure. I have taken many tests and I can only say that my views seem to overlap with Democrats, Libertarians, Green and Independents.

I had a long discussion recently about the current market and the over all economy. In the group was a wide variety of political views, from Republican, Independents, a Communist, Democrats, and a Libertarian.

Of all the people only the Republicans said they were not better off, while the other political party views were varying from we are better to we are doing great. I saw this Republican viewpoint as being a key indicator for a party which is manipulated by, what I call, mass hysteria.

When asked, these Republican people start to make repetitive comments which I constantly hear on FOX, Rush, Beck, Coulter and Romney speeches. These comments consisted of false claims that under Obama our government has caused an addition 4 trillion in debt, a failure of more than 50% in green investment companies, more people out of work than when Obama took office, failure to work with the Congress, over regulation of businesses, a ruined housing industry, a ruined international policy and the ruin of Medicare with the AHCA/PPAC(or Obama care), to name a few.

I was dumbfounded by their comments and when I used my pad to bring up factual information, to which they rejected my facts, insisted that Obama was ruining America and that Romney would save us and the world. I sat and listened as they went on and on about their views, but none of them could support their statements with facts as I asked them to present proof of their claims.

As a real estate agent I can honestly say, "Yes, we are better off now than four years ago". I have watched around the tri-county area of Orlando, housing developments which were previously decapitated be completely rebuilt. I have seen open fields turn in to shopping malls and new developments are sprouting up all over the place. I have spoken to vendors in the construction industry and they have said they are very busy building, but that it isn't they way it was before. I have also found other friends out of work who tell me they can't find a job, but when asked they refuse to take a lower paying job.

I believe that their is a stigmatism with the public. They remember how good it was before the bubble burst and they want what they once had; they refuse to accept the current market and act like a six year old refusing to eat their peas.

I'm also reminded that things really aren't that bad now. My parents remember the Great Depression and have told me of their stories. They remember long soup lines and people in the city living in the streets and having shared apartments with other families. Unemployment was 25%, over 5000 failed banks, 38% homeless and their was the Dust Bowl to contend with in the mid-west. People roamed the country looking for work, willing to do ANYTHING to get a little bit of pay even picking food.

It wasn't until Franklin Delaware Roosevelt came along with the New Deal that the economy recovered. He had an attitude that it was better to put to work 100 men with shovels than to have one man working a bulldozer. He built roads, bridges, dams and increased the infrastructure of our utilities. This is the same thing which Obama has been trying to push through Congress, but because of their attitude to make Obama a "one term President" the bill has sat in Congress, dead on arrival.

I don't think Romney is going to deliberately destroy America but I feel he is the wrong choice for President. He panders to the middle class now that it is close to the election day after a year of pandering the the right wing. I have watched him change is views drastically, such as the "I will repeal Obama care the day I'm elected", which is a lie be case he can't repeal it in that fashion. He also said at one point that he would not repeal it but "make changes".

I just don't get it. Am I the only one who sees the bullshit being played on American voters? Yes, Obama isn't a kick ass President. He could have done better with challenging Congress, but Romney can't possibly be a better choice for the greater good of the country.

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

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Beyond Saving
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 I have been rather

 I have been rather critical of Obama supporters in recent days for their blind allegiance to the candidate without regard to his actual actions on policies. However, this blind allegiance is also typical on the republican side as well. For example, right wingers are terrified that Obama is going to pass some kind of major gun control legislation in a second term. I doubt he will, nor do I believe that "Fast & Furious" was some complicated plot to justify banning guns, I find it perfectly plausible that our government simply fucked up. Despite no indication of Obama having any intention of seriously addressing gun control, you find all sorts of stories from the right wing like http://www.infowars.com/gun-sales-surge-in-fear-of-obama-re-election/

Despite his recent rhetoric to the contrary, Romney has a record of not only signing strict gun control laws, but actually advocating for them aggressively. Massachusetts has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation, which includes such measures such as mandatory licensing to buy any gun or even pepper spray. It also has an assault weapons ban that is more strict than the federal one that expired. Yet despite Romney's history of being arguably more anti-gun than Obama, the NRA and other major gun groups have endorsed him.

Now, Obama's record isn't exactly pro-gun rights but he has shown no indication that he intends to address the issue as president. I can understand not having the stomach to endorse Obama over Romney, but at the very least the NRA should have endorsed a third party candidate or not endorsed anyone. It is a slap in the face to anyone who has donated to the NRA over the years for the purpose of supporting candidates on the sole issue of gun rights. They ignored Romney's record and endorsed him simply because he had an "R" in front of his name. It is precisely this kind of blind partisanship that allows politicians to get away with doing whatever they want, and hinders our ability to honestly discuss any issues because they know that the dupes will line up behind them simply because of their pretty words and the letter in front of their name. As voters it is past time for us to hold our politicians accountable for their actions, even if that means throwing politicians who might previously have been viewed as allies under the bus. If you are voting for the "lesser of two evils" you are part of the problem, regardless of whether it is Romney or Obama you vote for.  

 

Prozac, check your PM settings.


Brian37
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digitalbeachbum wrote:Yet

digitalbeachbum wrote:

Yet another example of Romney's campaign playing dirty pool.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/mitt-romneys-ohio-auto-ad-triggered-political-showdown/story?id=17617082#.UJLpt2eN7To

Romney never should have been nominated for the GOP. His nomination shows the GOP is fucking wacko.

You said it brother! Give me Reagan or Bush Sr any day if they were running against Romney. Wrong on economics, wrong on forgien policy and women should be scared shitless of Romney.

The right is seeing sane society moving forward, and they are still stuck on their right wing utopia narcissistic crap. Then they nominate a fake who waffles more than Kerry did who is now mimicing Obama trying to pretend to be a centrist, when if Romeny were to be ellected, we'd all get screwed even more.

 

VOTE VOTE VOTE PEOPLE

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Brian37
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Beyond Saving wrote:Brian37

Beyond Saving wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

Beyond your words are hollow and I am damned glad Cristy is doing the right thing finally. There is absolutely NO WAY NJ has the funds by itself to clean this mess up. Investment is going to get the ball rolling but it will be the WORKERS who do the actual work.

It is just sad that it took this to wake people up. I have never felt that the private sector should be scrapped. I have never wanted a nanny state. But even if this disaster had not happend we have fallen behind in investment compaired to other western nations and I do not think it takes low wages like china has to compete.

You continually fail to see that those on the left DO value individualism but individualism that is responsive to a healthy economy because it doesn't push others further down. If you don't take care of what is outside the physical building you own or work in that eventally will affect you as well.

What happened now is a Pearl Harbor in the form of a storm. Back when we were attacked by Japan THOSE business owners worked with government and invested and because of that investment we defeated them and even after those business people continued that cooperation with government to make the economy stable and grow.

Business can and should do the right thing now and Cristy seems to get it now. I just wish it had not taken this to wake people like him up.

 

There is one single neighborhood in NY that hit union firemen and cops, 100 pluss houses, but if we left it up to your mindset youd say "screw em".  Not me, no one, no one from the store clerk to the fireman to the business owner can escape this disaster and it will take all of us to do our part to recover. But that cannot and I refuse to accept a country that leaves anyone in an economic spiral out of some stupid sense of inteitlement to power because they have money.

It is sad that this happens but now more than ever "poor poor me" comming from you is not only a joke but selfish narcissism. "Your on your own" will not work and there are flooded places where all classes live and there are simply times in history where you cant and should not say "fuck em, I got mine".

There is nothing that can stop nature, but if 30 years of "fuck em" hadn't lead us to this mess we would be in a much better position to recover much more quickly. The reality is that we are humans first, not class not political, but humans first, something your mindset refuses to get. 

I do see some positive signs from SOME like GM who finaly realize they made a mistake took the help and are now humble enough to actually defend workers and WANT to keep jobs here and grow jobs. But that is one company and the entire climate should be like that. THAT will  be the key to our recovery, when investment in the worker grows.

 

But the Koch brothers dont get it and Nick Hanour does and even NJ Governor now gets it. More and more people are getting wise to the fearmongering the narsiccists at the top sell. We have felt helpless for far too long but are now standing up to the bullies with money. Now all those business owners in NY AND NJ will have NO CHOICE but to accept that someone is going to drive that cement truck, fix those tellephone and electric wires. Some laborors are going to have to clean the debries and roads and fix the subways. WORKERS are going to do the actual work.

No different than a home with a couple living in it, inequity does not change that the parts even if not equal still need to work together. When those people have full time jobs and pay that they can live off of the economy will get better.

Beyond you will be on the losing side of history. I would suggest you remove yourself from your bubble and stop assuming that the label "business owner" means you should always side with the top. You've already admitted to me that business owners do not always think alike, so I would merely suggest that there IS a better way to get a healthy economy than "let them eat cake".

I look at the devistation of NJ and things like the private business of the boardwalk amusement park, but unlike you, I don't simply cry for the owners of that park, the ride employees who run them and maintain them, and the game employees and hot dog and cotton candy employees ALSO are a part of that.

We all do better when we all work together and invesment is only one aspect, but not the only aspect, so when a business owner says "I built that", no, you had an idea and paid other people to build it. We value the idea people, but they do not value the people they pay.

Did I say anywhere that we shouldn't help them out? Did I say anywhere "fuck em, let'em die"? Have I said anywhere "poor poor me"?!?!?!? Nice field of straw men. 

 

I don't have health care. YOU put profits before people. If we go back to the old way that forces me to only use the emergancy room which should be last resort, primary care and preventative care are not taken care of like that. If we go back to the way you think it should be, EVEN IF I have health care, a guy in a cubical in a cooporate office has a CEO breathing down his neck to increase profit by cutting people or denying them care.

YOU are the "poor me". You are the one acting like no one but business owners should have the right to vote and determine OUR laws. You are the one with the crockodial tears claming we want to rob you.

YOU have said about ME personally that you don't care about ME. And stupidly and falsely claim that I am expecting you to. You stupidy confuse that issue with having the common sense to walk outside your own door and look at the toxic environment created by the CLIMATE you support. It isn't conspiracy I am talking about. It is the climate you buy into and feed with your mentality.

 

How much more should we bail out the big guys, take less and less pay and work more for less? This is the same mentality that caused the great depression. This is the mentality that caused our tripple wammy of Wall Street, car companies and housing disaster.

You are blaming the plumber for people like you clogging the toilet. If anyone is crying "poor me", it is you.

 

NOW some crow is handed to you rightfully and you will WATCH and see as the BUSINESS OWNERS of NY AND NJ  get bailed out once again by bad daddy government. Yea, poor poor rich guy, sucks to be you. Tell you what, when you end up on the street eating cat food because you had to chose between medicine or food or rent, then you can bitch. Even the business owners of NY AND NJ have the right to bitch AND get help and they should be helped.

Poor poor you, would you like some whine with cheese?

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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Beyond Saving
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Brian37 wrote:I don't have

Brian37 wrote:

I don't have health care.

That isn't my fault, you should go buy some insurance.

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

YOU put profits before people.

Do I? Huh. Guess it depends on the person because some people in my life are clearly unprofitable (in a financial sense). 

 

Brian37 wrote:

If we go back to the old way that forces me to only use the emergancy room which should be last resort, primary care and preventative care are not taken care of like that. If we go back to the way you think it should be, EVEN IF I have health care, a guy in a cubical in a cooporate office has a CEO breathing down his neck to increase profit by cutting people or denying them care.

Well or you could do something really radical like go to the doctor and pay your own bill. You know, kinda like you pay your own rent and for your own food and every other fucking thing you need in life?

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

YOU are the "poor me". You are the one acting like no one but business owners should have the right to vote and determine OUR laws. You are the one with the crockodial tears claming we want to rob you.

Where have I ever said "poor me"? That statement is so not me, I hate when people are sympathetic to me even in a situation where I probably deserve some sympathy. I have never questioned your right to vote or your right to pass laws, I have simply argued for the laws I believe are better. You don't want to rob me? What do you call using the full force of the United States Federal Government to take my money from me in order to pay for YOUR health insurance that you are too cheap to pay for yourself? I call it robbery. I never cried over it though, I simply threatened to stop making money so you can't take it- then you are the one crying tears over the evil rich not investing. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

YOU have said about ME personally that you don't care about ME. And stupidly and falsely claim that I am expecting you to. You stupidy confuse that issue with having the common sense to walk outside your own door and look at the toxic environment created by the CLIMATE you support. It isn't conspiracy I am talking about. It is the climate you buy into and feed with your mentality.

Nope, I don't care about you, get over it. You are as bad as having a one night stand with a 20 year old who then thinks you are her boyfriend and gets all upset when you tell her it was a one time thing. I don't consider any of my investments "toxic", I employ people,  I make money for people, I supply customers with a desired product- everyone involved is much better off than they would be if my business never existed. 

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

How much more should we bail out the big guys, take less and less pay and work more for less?

I don't think we should have bailed them out at all, which is one of the reasons why I don't support Obama. 

 

Brian37 wrote:

This is the same mentality that caused the great depression. This is the mentality that caused our tripple wammy of Wall Street, car companies and housing disaster.

Exactly which mentality is that? 

 

Brian37 wrote:

You are blaming the plumber for people like you clogging the toilet. If anyone is crying "poor me", it is you.

Where have I ever blamed the plumber? When the plumber pumps my septic I pay him, if I don't need a plumber I don't pay him. It isn't that complicated. You are asking me to pay you even though I have never set foot inside your restaurant.

 

Brian37 wrote:
 

NOW some crow is handed to you rightfully and you will WATCH and see as the BUSINESS OWNERS of NY AND NJ  get bailed out once again by bad daddy government. Yea, poor poor rich guy, sucks to be you. Tell you what, when you end up on the street eating cat food because you had to chose between medicine or food or rent, then you can bitch. Even the business owners of NY AND NJ have the right to bitch AND get help and they should be helped.

The business owners of NY and NJ shouldn't be helped more than anyone else. The governments role should be to help people with immediate emergency needs (like temporary food, water, shelter and emergency medical care), to aid with picking up the garbage and to restore utilities- since they have been doing a rather poor job of doing even that I don't think we should ask more of them.

For the actual rebuilding of businesses, that cost should be carried by the insurance companies- it is after all what all those businesses are paying for insurance for. Some businesses might not want to rebuild and opt just to take the insurance cash, which is sensible if the business wasn't making a lot of profit. Government can help with rebuilding faster by suspending taxes on investments in the area. I don't think we need to give Donald Trump a million dollars to clean up and repair one of his hotels.  

 

Brian37 wrote:

Poor poor you, would you like some whine with cheese?

I'm already halfway through a bottle. In fact, speaking of wine I found a nice little gem for any oenophile lurkers out there Cruz de Alba Crianza 2007 a beautiful tempranillo from Spain. Not the best I have ever tasted but it is retailing for only $27 for a 750ml and is prime for drinking right now but could probably hold up well to being cellared for another 3-5 years. For that price it is an excellent buy for the occasional night you are sitting at home watching MNF and arguing with socialists on the net. Although now that you mention it, I could use some cheese. If you bring me a block of some good Havarti right now I will buy you some insurance 

 

Prozac, check your PM settings.