why i believe

JesusLovesYou
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why i believe

From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.  He made Adam, and saw he was helpless, so from Adam God created Eve.  Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....

 

Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN as a direct example of Christ's relationship to the church.  The church is the bride of Christ.  The church is not a building....the bible definition of church is the body of believers.  The Bible says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself for it.

The wife in Song of Solomon 5:16 says "my beloved and my friend".  Biblical marriage is not only a man and woman co-existing together, but its FRIENDSHIP.  IMHO the straw that breaks the camel's back leading to divorce is LACK of FRIENDSHIP in marriages. 

If a man saw his wife as his BEST friend he would not covet other women, he would not sit on his "two-pack" with a tv remote or PS3 controller in his hand.  He would be SERVING her.  lack of SERVING is another thing that destroys marriages.  Secular Society (and infortunately some "pious" religious societies) are SELFISH rather than SELFLESS.  People do what they want, when they want, how they want, because THEY want...."Forget my husband or wife, THEY don't understand MY desires"

This is the problem with athiests.  "I don't have to be open and honest with my spouse"= I don't REALLY trust this person with my life.

"I can window shop, as long as I don't buy"=Majority of the time ends up in adultry

Why is divorce so devastating? Why is one or bother parties completely destroyed emotionally in a non-marital sexual relationship?  The act of intercourse physically, emotionally, and spiritually bonds 2 individuals on such an intense level, that the Bible simply describes it as 2 become 1. THIS is why intercourse is reserved for marriage, because of that bond.  Actually under the law of Moses if you slept with someone out of wedlock, you just married them. 

 

Why do I believe this is all tried and true?  My wife and I went through things only God could have gotten us through.  I was not honest, and held things from my past from her out of fear.....things that she found out on her own, by accident.  She left for 5 days, we barely talked.  She would not accept apology, she doubted in my faith, she doubted my past was past.  Intense anger was present in our home for a good month.  We slept separately for that time.  What did we do?  we DID NOT divorce.  We both know God never intended divorce.  We prayed to the Lord for eachother every night, but mainly for the Lord to work in us individually, and worked on our personal relationships with Him.  We sought out BIBLICAL counseling.  What did the counseler do?  Well he started in Genesis 2, and from there we walked through scripture on guidance to what we must do.  I learned that secrets destroy, lies destroy, deceit destroys.  My wife learned that by kicking me out of the room she was punishing me by using the marriage bed as her personal space.  After a month we came together again, and she was able to forgive me.  We are now in a couple's small group learning more about Biblical marriage than we ever knew. 

During that time did part of me want to fear that we would never come out on the other side?  YES did she? YES  But with prayer, searching the scripture, working on our personal relationships with the Lord, and Biblical support from those around us we found the light at the end of the tunnel and our marriage now is better than it ever was.

 

Nobody but God could have brought us through.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


pauljohntheskeptic
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JesusLovesYou wrote:From the

JesusLovesYou wrote:

From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.  He made Adam, and saw he was helpless, so from Adam God created Eve.  Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....

 

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

No, its has nothing to do with men oppressing women in the past, it's the point that the god thing is mired in myth and fantasy.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN as a direct example of Christ's relationship to the church.  The church is the bride of Christ.  The church is not a building....the bible definition of church is the body of believers.  The Bible says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself for it.

I realize you get this from the NT which occurs thousands or hundreds of years (depending on the origin of the myths, in the 2nd century BCE or 900-1000 BCE) after the fairy tale of Genesis.

Paul the mythmaker does make a lot of claims including the one you mention here. And? Why believe him?

The Jews see marriage as a contract between the parties. They don't have the Jesus as part of it, it's not required. In fact many of the patriarchs had many wives, Abe, Solomon, David etc.

Apparently the god changed the rules between the time of Adam and the time of Abe, Solomon and David. Then he changed them once again to be only between 1 man and 1 woman.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

The wife in Song of Solomon 5:16 says "my beloved and my friend".  Biblical marriage is not only a man and woman co-existing together, but its FRIENDSHIP.  IMHO the straw that breaks the camel's back leading to divorce is LACK of FRIENDSHIP in marriages.

Which wife of the hundreds Solomon had?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

If a man saw his wife as his BEST friend he would not covet other women, he would not sit on his "two-pack" with a tv remote or PS3 controller in his hand.  He would be SERVING her.  lack of SERVING is another thing that destroys marriages.  Secular Society (and infortunately some "pious" religious societies) are SELFISH rather than SELFLESS.  People do what they want, when they want, how they want, because THEY want...."Forget my husband or wife, THEY don't understand MY desires"

A marriage is a partnership just like a business relationship. If you are deceptive in your dealing with your partner you are negating the contract.

No one forced you to sign the contract, you did that of your own.

Or did you get married at the point of a gun because you knocked her up?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is the problem with athiests.  "I don't have to be open and honest with my spouse"= I don't REALLY trust this person with my life.

This is a strawman and does not follow from anything you wrote.

You have no basis for this statement it's complete bullshit.

How do you know that atheists are not honest with their spouses or partners?

Because perhaps if a pious Christian like you claim you are can't do it that a non-believer certainly must be far worse than you? Is that what you are trying to infer?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

"I can window shop, as long as I don't buy"=Majority of the time ends up in adultry

Then perhaps you need to pluck out your eyes as matt suggests. Being so weak willed that you have no control suggests you are the one with a problem.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why is divorce so devastating? Why is one or bother parties completely destroyed emotionally in a non-marital sexual relationship?  The act of intercourse physically, emotionally, and spiritually bonds 2 individuals on such an intense level, that the Bible simply describes it as 2 become 1. THIS is why intercourse is reserved for marriage, because of that bond.  Actually under the law of Moses if you slept with someone out of wedlock, you just married them.

Divorces happen for many reasons not just from adultery.

When one cheats on the contract you have violated the deal you made. So the other person should be pissed at you, you were dishonest when you made the contract. You probably should never had been married in the first place if that was the case.

The bible describes all sorts of bullshit that isn't exactly true and sex is just another example of that.

Quoting the mythical Moses does exactly what for you here?

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do I believe this is all tried and true?  My wife and I went through things only God could have gotten us through.  I was not honest, and held things from my past from her out of fear.....things that she found out on her own, by accident.  She left for 5 days, we barely talked.  She would not accept apology, she doubted in my faith, she doubted my past was past.  Intense anger was present in our home for a good month.  We slept separately for that time.  What did we do?  we DID NOT divorce.  We both know God never intended divorce.  We prayed to the Lord for eachother every night, but mainly for the Lord to work in us individually, and worked on our personal relationships with Him.  We sought out BIBLICAL counseling.  What did the counseler do?  Well he started in Genesis 2, and from there we walked through scripture on guidance to what we must do.  I learned that secrets destroy, lies destroy, deceit destroys.  My wife learned that by kicking me out of the room she was punishing me by using the marriage bed as her personal space.  After a month we came together again, and she was able to forgive me.  We are now in a couple's small group learning more about Biblical marriage than we ever knew. 

During that time did part of me want to fear that we would never come out on the other side?  YES did she? YES  But with prayer, searching the scripture, working on our personal relationships with the Lord, and Biblical support from those around us we found the light at the end of the tunnel and our marriage now is better than it ever was.

 

Nobody but God could have brought us through.

If your marriage is as important as you say it is you should always have been honest. That you weren't is on you. If your relationship is important to both of you being honest is required. You at least learned this before it was too late.

I'm glad it worked out for you.

What you learned in counseling you should have known anyway. There is no god required for that, only common sense.

Good luck to you.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

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No need to go into detail,

No need to go into detail, but your "deceit", your "secret", was it the kind of thing that might have gotten you stoned in less enlightened times ?


 


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Anonymouse wrote:No need to

Anonymouse wrote:

No need to go into detail, but your "deceit", your "secret", was it the kind of thing that might have gotten you stoned in less enlightened times ?


 

 

 

                       He was gay.

 

 

 

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JesusLovesYou
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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

No, its has nothing to do with men oppressing women in the past, it's the point that the god thing is mired in myth and fantasy.

So where are these "fairy tales" you speak of?

 

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

I realize you get this from the NT which occurs thousands or hundreds of years (depending on the origin of the myths, in the 2nd century BCE or 900-1000 BCE) after the fairy tale of Genesis.

Paul the mythmaker does make a lot of claims including the one you mention here. And? Why believe him?

The Jews see marriage as a contract between the parties. They don't have the Jesus as part of it, it's not required. In fact many of the patriarchs had many wives, Abe, Solomon, David etc.

Apparently the god changed the rules between the time of Adam and the time of Abe, Solomon and David. Then he changed them once again to be only between 1 man and 1 woman.

The OT testament teaches monogomy, not polygamy, silly.

 Gen. 2:24, “A man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

Deuteronomy 17:17a" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away."

We can see that b/c Solomon had many wives his heart turned away from God.

1Kings 11:3-4  He had 700 wives, who were princesses, and 300 concubines. And his wives turned away his heart.  For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, and his heart was not wholly true to the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

What you are referring to are the lives of certain individuals, rather than the view of the Lord.  Look at what happened when Abraham bore ishmael.  Ishmael was not the promised son.  He became the father of a nation that oppressed the Isrealites.  YES there was polygamy in the OT but ultimately it led to negative consequences, which even the great King David suffered.

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Which wife of the hundreds Solomon had?

irrelevant

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

A marriage is a partnership just like a business relationship. If you are deceptive in your dealing with your partner you are negating the contract.

No one forced you to sign the contract, you did that of your own.

Or did you get married at the point of a gun because you knocked her up?

this is where you are IMMENSELY wrong.  Marriage is NOT a contract, and should NOT be treated as one.  Marriage is a COVENANT. 

 

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Quoting the mythical Moses does exactly what for you here?

So you would tell my Jewish friends and co-workers that their bloodline, their history, their ancestors don't exist?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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"Then Peter said unto them,

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Then, fortunately for you, Paul got rid of the repentance requirement and made it so all you rally have to do is believe without being responsible for your actions.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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"Then Peter said unto them,

DP

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
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jcgadfly wrote:"Then Peter

jcgadfly wrote:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

Then, fortunately for you, Paul got rid of the repentance requirement and made it so all you rally have to do is believe without being responsible for your actions.

You do not understand true biblical belief then.  First off, you cannot use a Paul argument here (not that you ever can) b/c Luke, who transcribed ACTS was a disciple of Paul and was familiar with his teaching. 

Ill put it how my pastor, James Macdonald, put it:

"Genuine belief in Christ as Savior shows up in humble obedience." 

Paul DID NOT contradict repentance.

-Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

The old man referring to who  you were before Christ, crucified with him is repentance.  Putting your past on the cross to die.

If i say "i believe in the cookie" I eat the cookie, i don't just say "i believe in the cookie", "yup there is a cookie there, i believe it" i actually DO SOMETHING WITH IT.  The same goes with Christ true belief in Christ comes with more than just an oral statement.  It comes with Repentance, Justification, Sanctification, etc.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:From the

JesusLovesYou wrote:

From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.  He made Adam, and saw he was helpless, so from Adam God created Eve.  Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....

 

Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN as a direct example of Christ's relationship to the church.  The church is the bride of Christ.  The church is not a building....the bible definition of church is the body of believers.  The Bible says that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church and gave Himself for it.

The wife in Song of Solomon 5:16 says "my beloved and my friend".  Biblical marriage is not only a man and woman co-existing together, but its FRIENDSHIP.  IMHO the straw that breaks the camel's back leading to divorce is LACK of FRIENDSHIP in marriages. 

If a man saw his wife as his BEST friend he would not covet other women, he would not sit on his "two-pack" with a tv remote or PS3 controller in his hand.  He would be SERVING her.  lack of SERVING is another thing that destroys marriages.  Secular Society (and infortunately some "pious" religious societies) are SELFISH rather than SELFLESS.  People do what they want, when they want, how they want, because THEY want...."Forget my husband or wife, THEY don't understand MY desires"

This is the problem with athiests.  "I don't have to be open and honest with my spouse"= I don't REALLY trust this person with my life.

"I can window shop, as long as I don't buy"=Majority of the time ends up in adultry

Why is divorce so devastating? Why is one or bother parties completely destroyed emotionally in a non-marital sexual relationship?  The act of intercourse physically, emotionally, and spiritually bonds 2 individuals on such an intense level, that the Bible simply describes it as 2 become 1. THIS is why intercourse is reserved for marriage, because of that bond.  Actually under the law of Moses if you slept with someone out of wedlock, you just married them. 

 

Why do I believe this is all tried and true?  My wife and I went through things only God could have gotten us through.  I was not honest, and held things from my past from her out of fear.....things that she found out on her own, by accident.  She left for 5 days, we barely talked.  She would not accept apology, she doubted in my faith, she doubted my past was past.  Intense anger was present in our home for a good month.  We slept separately for that time.  What did we do?  we DID NOT divorce.  We both know God never intended divorce.  We prayed to the Lord for eachother every night, but mainly for the Lord to work in us individually, and worked on our personal relationships with Him.  We sought out BIBLICAL counseling.  What did the counseler do?  Well he started in Genesis 2, and from there we walked through scripture on guidance to what we must do.  I learned that secrets destroy, lies destroy, deceit destroys.  My wife learned that by kicking me out of the room she was punishing me by using the marriage bed as her personal space.  After a month we came together again, and she was able to forgive me.  We are now in a couple's small group learning more about Biblical marriage than we ever knew. 

During that time did part of me want to fear that we would never come out on the other side?  YES did she? YES  But with prayer, searching the scripture, working on our personal relationships with the Lord, and Biblical support from those around us we found the light at the end of the tunnel and our marriage now is better than it ever was.

 

Nobody but God could have brought us through.

Thank you for wasting our time and yours simply making a naked assertion about a fictional story you simply like.

First off, what you are doing here is preaching. Secondly, you have no evdince for your inmaterial dismbodied magical super brain. You also have no evidence that humans come from dirt, or that an adult woman can magiclaly pop out of a man's rib.

But I do agree that humans use religion as a weapon and maybe if they didn't actually believe in fictional super heros like you, there would be no weapon they could use to get power.

Thanks for playing, you can stick around and try again but this is amature on your part.

 

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Vastet
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Uh huh. JesusLovesYou

Uh huh.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.

Prove it.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam

Prove it.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve

Prove it.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....

Prove it.

JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc

PROVE IT.

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Oh, Hell! Let's not start that discussion again

Jeffrick wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

No need to go into detail, but your "deceit", your "secret", was it the kind of thing that might have gotten you stoned in less enlightened times ?


 

 

 

                       He was gay.

 

 

 

    Oh Hell! Let's not start that discussion again (Thread with same title)  People kept asking was or is ? I almost recall.

 

 

See:: Image.  ROFLMAO

 

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JesusLovesYou
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Vastet wrote:Uh huh.

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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Jeffrick wrote:Anonymouse

Jeffrick wrote:

Anonymouse wrote:

No need to go into detail, but your "deceit", your "secret", was it the kind of thing that might have gotten you stoned in less enlightened times ?


 

 

 

                       He was gay.

 

 

 

 

Or he couldn't get it up

 

 

 


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JesusLovesYou wrote:Vastet

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

No, your "text" was written by tribal ignorant goat hearders over 1,000 year period and 40 authors with books left out. It is a book of myth and fiction like all other holy books.

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pauljohntheskeptic
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

No, its has nothing to do with men oppressing women in the past, it's the point that the god thing is mired in myth and fantasy.

So where are these "fairy tales" you speak of?

 

1-There of course is the one you mentioned in Genesis. This is but one of many story tales. You choose to follow this one and ignore that many other civilizations existed that documented their own storytales in great detail. Especially for example the Sumerians see ETCSL.com and read many of the translated tablets which predate your fairy tales by thousands of years. That the OT character Abe has an origin from one of their ancient cities should tell you something about where your myths might have an origin.

2-China - Nüwa and Fu Xi who invented proper marriage procedures.

3 - Sumer - Hammurabi's Code of Laws  - not mythical though see laws 128 to about 184 - pretty clear marriage was considered a contract. If you want I can post links to tablets that detail the contract.

4- Sumer - Inanna stories see ETCSL.com

5- India - see the epic of Mahabharata.

6- Aztecs - see Aztec religious practices

7 - Egypt - See http://www.prntrkmt.org/organization/marriage.html

 and - http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/bride.htm here it's clear again that marriage was a contract.

8- Ugaritic - stories in regard to the goddess Anat for one.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

I realize you get this from the NT which occurs thousands or hundreds of years (depending on the origin of the myths, in the 2nd century BCE or 900-1000 BCE) after the fairy tale of Genesis.

Paul the mythmaker does make a lot of claims including the one you mention here. And? Why believe him?

The Jews see marriage as a contract between the parties. They don't have the Jesus as part of it, it's not required. In fact many of the patriarchs had many wives, Abe, Solomon, David etc.

Apparently the god changed the rules between the time of Adam and the time of Abe, Solomon and David. Then he changed them once again to be only between 1 man and 1 woman.

The OT testament teaches monogamy, not polygamy, silly.

You must have the New Abridged Christian Bible that leaves out all of the multiple wives:

According to the Book of Myths aka the Bible:

Not many of the descendants of Adam have the wives mentioned by name until we get to Abe.

Lamech -  2 wives -Gen 4:19
#1 - Adah
#2 - Zillah

Abe - wife 1 = Sarai - Gen 11:29

      - mistress - aka concubine - Hagar Gen 16:

     - 2nd wife - Keturah - Gen 25 - after Sarai died

Nahor-Abe's brother, had both a wife and a concubine Gen 11:29; 22:20-24

Jacob - wife 1 - Leah - Gen 28:23

         - wife 2 - Rachel - Gen 29:28

         - wife 3 - Bilhah - Gen 30:4

        - wife 4 - Zilpah - Gen 30:9

Esau - wife 1 - Judith - Gen 26:34

        - wife 2 - Bashemath - Gen 26:34

        - wife 3 - Mahalath - Gen 28:9

Gideon ....for had many wives - Judges 8:30

David - 8 wives & 10 concubines aka mistresses - 2 Sam 6:23 & 20:3

Solomon - 700 wives and 300 concubines 1 Kings 11:3

Rehoboam - 18 wives and sixty concubines 2 Chron 11:21

Abijah 14 wives 2 Chron 13:21

Ahab - ..many wives - 1 Kings 20:7 - Yeah I know he's a hated king

Jehoram  - multiple wives 2 Chron 21:17

King Joash - 2 wives 2 Chronicles 24:3 - verse 2 says he did that which was right in the sight of the god. So what about the 2 wives?

And many others - Jehochin, Jehoram,  . . . . .

If the book of myths is the word of god where in the OT/Hebrew Bible does it say what you claim and prohibit in actual words what was practiced by all the supposed godly men of Israel?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

 Gen. 2:24, “A man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

Deuteronomy 17:17a" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away."

We can see that b/c Solomon had many wives his heart turned away from God.

1Kings 11:3-4  He had 700 wives, who were princesses, and 300 concubines. And his wives turned away his heart.  For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, and his heart was not wholly true to the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

What you are referring to are the lives of certain individuals, rather than the view of the Lord.  Look at what happened when Abraham bore ishmael.  Ishmael was not the promised son.  He became the father of a nation that oppressed the Isrealites.  YES there was polygamy in the OT but ultimately it led to negative consequences, which even the great King David suffered.

The Deut quote says too many wives, how many is that? Doesn't seem defined there. It also speaks of accumulating wealth in the same way.

Many of the certain individuals were the pious ones of the Abe religion. If it was OK for them as I showed even Joash was considered to be right in the sight of the god how does that support your view? The god allowed rule bending for his favorites is what you are saying and everyone else had to obey the Genesis rule but not the special ones?

David had many problems according to the fairy tales, not just his wives.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Which wife of the hundreds Solomon had?

irrelevant

No, you quote one of Solomon's 700 wives as a support of monogamy so it's relevant.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

A marriage is a partnership just like a business relationship. If you are deceptive in your dealing with your partner you are negating the contract.

No one forced you to sign the contract, you did that of your own.

Or did you get married at the point of a gun because you knocked her up?

this is where you are IMMENSELY wrong.  Marriage is NOT a contract, and should NOT be treated as one.  Marriage is a COVENANT.

Probably why you had problems then.

Catholics consider marriage a Sacrament. You consider it a covenant which is another way of saying contract.

Dictionary definition - covenant -

1 - an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

2-Law . an incidental clause in such an agreement.

 Dictionary definition contract -

1-an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2-an agreement enforceable by law.
3-the written form of such an agreement.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Quoting the mythical Moses does exactly what for you here?

So you would tell my Jewish friends and co-workers that their bloodline, their history, their ancestors don't exist?

Their bloodline may or may not originate in Palestine or from Semitic people as many Jews, the religion are converts from other lands. The Semitics are also the same exact people as the Arabs aka Palestinians.

Their history in the Hebrew Bible is mired in myth and fantasy.

They obviously had ancestors, though the mythical Moses is not among them. Nor much of the supposed "history" in the Hebrew Bible which is as mythical as the Ugaritic and Sumerian.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


JesusLovesYou
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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

No, its has nothing to do with men oppressing women in the past, it's the point that the god thing is mired in myth and fantasy.

So where are these "fairy tales" you speak of?

 

1-There of course is the one you mentioned in Genesis. This is but one of many story tales. You choose to follow this one and ignore that many other civilizations existed that documented their own storytales in great detail. Especially for example the Sumerians see ETCSL.com and read many of the translated tablets which predate your fairy tales by thousands of years. That the OT character Abe has an origin from one of their ancient cities should tell you something about where your myths might have an origin.

2-China - Nüwa and Fu Xi who invented proper marriage procedures.

3 - Sumer - Hammurabi's Code of Laws  - not mythical though see laws 128 to about 184 - pretty clear marriage was considered a contract. If you want I can post links to tablets that detail the contract.

4- Sumer - Inanna stories see ETCSL.com

5- India - see the epic of Mahabharata.

6- Aztecs - see Aztec religious practices

7 - Egypt - See http://www.prntrkmt.org/organization/marriage.html

 and - http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/bride.htm here it's clear again that marriage was a contract.

8- Ugaritic - stories in regard to the goddess Anat for one.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

I realize you get this from the NT which occurs thousands or hundreds of years (depending on the origin of the myths, in the 2nd century BCE or 900-1000 BCE) after the fairy tale of Genesis.

Paul the mythmaker does make a lot of claims including the one you mention here. And? Why believe him?

The Jews see marriage as a contract between the parties. They don't have the Jesus as part of it, it's not required. In fact many of the patriarchs had many wives, Abe, Solomon, David etc.

Apparently the god changed the rules between the time of Adam and the time of Abe, Solomon and David. Then he changed them once again to be only between 1 man and 1 woman.

The OT testament teaches monogamy, not polygamy, silly.

You must have the New Abridged Christian Bible that leaves out all of the multiple wives:

According to the Book of Myths aka the Bible:

Not many of the descendants of Adam have the wives mentioned by name until we get to Abe.

Lamech -  2 wives -Gen 4:19
#1 - Adah
#2 - Zillah

Abe - wife 1 = Sarai - Gen 11:29

      - mistress - aka concubine - Hagar Gen 16:

     - 2nd wife - Keturah - Gen 25 - after Sarai died

Nahor-Abe's brother, had both a wife and a concubine Gen 11:29; 22:20-24

Jacob - wife 1 - Leah - Gen 28:23

         - wife 2 - Rachel - Gen 29:28

         - wife 3 - Bilhah - Gen 30:4

        - wife 4 - Zilpah - Gen 30:9

Esau - wife 1 - Judith - Gen 26:34

        - wife 2 - Bashemath - Gen 26:34

        - wife 3 - Mahalath - Gen 28:9

Gideon ....for had many wives - Judges 8:30

David - 8 wives & 10 concubines aka mistresses - 2 Sam 6:23 & 20:3

Solomon - 700 wives and 300 concubines 1 Kings 11:3

Rehoboam - 18 wives and sixty concubines 2 Chron 11:21

Abijah 14 wives 2 Chron 13:21

Ahab - ..many wives - 1 Kings 20:7 - Yeah I know he's a hated king

Jehoram  - multiple wives 2 Chron 21:17

King Joash - 2 wives 2 Chronicles 24:3 - verse 2 says he did that which was right in the sight of the god. So what about the 2 wives?

And many others - Jehochin, Jehoram,  . . . . .

If the book of myths is the word of god where in the OT/Hebrew Bible does it say what you claim and prohibit in actual words what was practiced by all the supposed godly men of Israel?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

 Gen. 2:24, “A man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

Deuteronomy 17:17a" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away."

We can see that b/c Solomon had many wives his heart turned away from God.

1Kings 11:3-4  He had 700 wives, who were princesses, and 300 concubines. And his wives turned away his heart.  For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, and his heart was not wholly true to the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

What you are referring to are the lives of certain individuals, rather than the view of the Lord.  Look at what happened when Abraham bore ishmael.  Ishmael was not the promised son.  He became the father of a nation that oppressed the Isrealites.  YES there was polygamy in the OT but ultimately it led to negative consequences, which even the great King David suffered.

The Deut quote says too many wives, how many is that? Doesn't seem defined there. It also speaks of accumulating wealth in the same way.

Many of the certain individuals were the pious ones of the Abe religion. If it was OK for them as I showed even Joash was considered to be right in the sight of the god how does that support your view? The god allowed rule bending for his favorites is what you are saying and everyone else had to obey the Genesis rule but not the special ones?

David had many problems according to the fairy tales, not just his wives.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Which wife of the hundreds Solomon had?

irrelevant

No, you quote one of Solomon's 700 wives as a support of monogamy so it's relevant.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

A marriage is a partnership just like a business relationship. If you are deceptive in your dealing with your partner you are negating the contract.

No one forced you to sign the contract, you did that of your own.

Or did you get married at the point of a gun because you knocked her up?

this is where you are IMMENSELY wrong.  Marriage is NOT a contract, and should NOT be treated as one.  Marriage is a COVENANT.

Probably why you had problems then.

Catholics consider marriage a Sacrament. You consider it a covenant which is another way of saying contract.

Dictionary definition - covenant -

1 - an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

2-Law . an incidental clause in such an agreement.

 Dictionary definition contract -

1-an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2-an agreement enforceable by law.
3-the written form of such an agreement.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Quoting the mythical Moses does exactly what for you here?

So you would tell my Jewish friends and co-workers that their bloodline, their history, their ancestors don't exist?

Their bloodline may or may not originate in Palestine or from Semitic people as many Jews, the religion are converts from other lands. The Semitics are also the same exact people as the Arabs aka Palestinians.

Their history in the Hebrew Bible is mired in myth and fantasy.

They obviously had ancestors, though the mythical Moses is not among them. Nor much of the supposed "history" in the Hebrew Bible which is as mythical as the Ugaritic and Sumerian.

 

quoting "myths and legends" from various parts around the world does not show proof that Moses and Abraham did not exist.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


jcgadfly
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JesusLovesYou wrote:Vastet

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

Why do you prefer the second creation story over the first? The one you like keeps women as chattel?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

No, its has nothing to do with men oppressing women in the past, it's the point that the god thing is mired in myth and fantasy.

So where are these "fairy tales" you speak of?

 

1-There of course is the one you mentioned in Genesis. This is but one of many story tales. You choose to follow this one and ignore that many other civilizations existed that documented their own storytales in great detail. Especially for example the Sumerians see ETCSL.com and read many of the translated tablets which predate your fairy tales by thousands of years. That the OT character Abe has an origin from one of their ancient cities should tell you something about where your myths might have an origin.

2-China - Nüwa and Fu Xi who invented proper marriage procedures.

3 - Sumer - Hammurabi's Code of Laws  - not mythical though see laws 128 to about 184 - pretty clear marriage was considered a contract. If you want I can post links to tablets that detail the contract.

4- Sumer - Inanna stories see ETCSL.com

5- India - see the epic of Mahabharata.

6- Aztecs - see Aztec religious practices

7 - Egypt - See http://www.prntrkmt.org/organization/marriage.html

 and - http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/bride.htm here it's clear again that marriage was a contract.

8- Ugaritic - stories in regard to the goddess Anat for one.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

I realize you get this from the NT which occurs thousands or hundreds of years (depending on the origin of the myths, in the 2nd century BCE or 900-1000 BCE) after the fairy tale of Genesis.

Paul the mythmaker does make a lot of claims including the one you mention here. And? Why believe him?

The Jews see marriage as a contract between the parties. They don't have the Jesus as part of it, it's not required. In fact many of the patriarchs had many wives, Abe, Solomon, David etc.

Apparently the god changed the rules between the time of Adam and the time of Abe, Solomon and David. Then he changed them once again to be only between 1 man and 1 woman.

The OT testament teaches monogamy, not polygamy, silly.

You must have the New Abridged Christian Bible that leaves out all of the multiple wives:

According to the Book of Myths aka the Bible:

Not many of the descendants of Adam have the wives mentioned by name until we get to Abe.

Lamech -  2 wives -Gen 4:19
#1 - Adah
#2 - Zillah

Abe - wife 1 = Sarai - Gen 11:29

      - mistress - aka concubine - Hagar Gen 16:

     - 2nd wife - Keturah - Gen 25 - after Sarai died

Nahor-Abe's brother, had both a wife and a concubine Gen 11:29; 22:20-24

Jacob - wife 1 - Leah - Gen 28:23

         - wife 2 - Rachel - Gen 29:28

         - wife 3 - Bilhah - Gen 30:4

        - wife 4 - Zilpah - Gen 30:9

Esau - wife 1 - Judith - Gen 26:34

        - wife 2 - Bashemath - Gen 26:34

        - wife 3 - Mahalath - Gen 28:9

Gideon ....for had many wives - Judges 8:30

David - 8 wives & 10 concubines aka mistresses - 2 Sam 6:23 & 20:3

Solomon - 700 wives and 300 concubines 1 Kings 11:3

Rehoboam - 18 wives and sixty concubines 2 Chron 11:21

Abijah 14 wives 2 Chron 13:21

Ahab - ..many wives - 1 Kings 20:7 - Yeah I know he's a hated king

Jehoram  - multiple wives 2 Chron 21:17

King Joash - 2 wives 2 Chronicles 24:3 - verse 2 says he did that which was right in the sight of the god. So what about the 2 wives?

And many others - Jehochin, Jehoram,  . . . . .

If the book of myths is the word of god where in the OT/Hebrew Bible does it say what you claim and prohibit in actual words what was practiced by all the supposed godly men of Israel?

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

 Gen. 2:24, “A man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”

Deuteronomy 17:17a" And he shall not acquire many wives for himself, lest his heart turn away."

We can see that b/c Solomon had many wives his heart turned away from God.

1Kings 11:3-4  He had 700 wives, who were princesses, and 300 concubines. And his wives turned away his heart.  For when Solomon was old his wives turned away his heart after other gods, and his heart was not wholly true to the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father.

What you are referring to are the lives of certain individuals, rather than the view of the Lord.  Look at what happened when Abraham bore ishmael.  Ishmael was not the promised son.  He became the father of a nation that oppressed the Isrealites.  YES there was polygamy in the OT but ultimately it led to negative consequences, which even the great King David suffered.

The Deut quote says too many wives, how many is that? Doesn't seem defined there. It also speaks of accumulating wealth in the same way.

Many of the certain individuals were the pious ones of the Abe religion. If it was OK for them as I showed even Joash was considered to be right in the sight of the god how does that support your view? The god allowed rule bending for his favorites is what you are saying and everyone else had to obey the Genesis rule but not the special ones?

David had many problems according to the fairy tales, not just his wives.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Which wife of the hundreds Solomon had?

irrelevant

No, you quote one of Solomon's 700 wives as a support of monogamy so it's relevant.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

A marriage is a partnership just like a business relationship. If you are deceptive in your dealing with your partner you are negating the contract.

No one forced you to sign the contract, you did that of your own.

Or did you get married at the point of a gun because you knocked her up?

this is where you are IMMENSELY wrong.  Marriage is NOT a contract, and should NOT be treated as one.  Marriage is a COVENANT.

Probably why you had problems then.

Catholics consider marriage a Sacrament. You consider it a covenant which is another way of saying contract.

Dictionary definition - covenant -

1 - an agreement, usually formal, between two or more persons to do or not do something specified.

2-Law . an incidental clause in such an agreement.

 Dictionary definition contract -

1-an agreement between two or more parties for the doing or not doing of something specified.
2-an agreement enforceable by law.
3-the written form of such an agreement.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

Quoting the mythical Moses does exactly what for you here?

So you would tell my Jewish friends and co-workers that their bloodline, their history, their ancestors don't exist?

Their bloodline may or may not originate in Palestine or from Semitic people as many Jews, the religion are converts from other lands. The Semitics are also the same exact people as the Arabs aka Palestinians.

Their history in the Hebrew Bible is mired in myth and fantasy.

They obviously had ancestors, though the mythical Moses is not among them. Nor much of the supposed "history" in the Hebrew Bible which is as mythical as the Ugaritic and Sumerian.

 

quoting "myths and legends" from various parts around the world does not show proof that Moses and Abraham did not exist.

It shows where they likely got the stories...

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Beyond Saving
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JesusLovesYou wrote:From the

JesusLovesYou wrote:

From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.  He made Adam, and saw he was helpless, so from Adam God created Eve.  Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....

 

Nah, oppression of women has absolutely nothing to do with why I am an atheist. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

The wife in Song of Solomon 5:16 says "my beloved and my friend".  Biblical marriage is not only a man and woman co-existing together, but its FRIENDSHIP.  IMHO the straw that breaks the camel's back leading to divorce is LACK of FRIENDSHIP in marriages.

Interesting theory, doesn't match my personal relationship experiences. I was married for seven years, now I am divorced and to this day my ex-wife remains one of my very best friends. I am sure that many relationships including marriages break up due to a lack of friendship, it is difficult to live with someone who isn't your friend.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:
 

If a man saw his wife as his BEST friend he would not covet other women, he would not sit on his "two-pack" with a tv remote or PS3 controller in his hand.

I enjoy doing a number of things with my best friend, including coveting other women and sitting on my ass with a remote. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

He would be SERVING her.  lack of SERVING is another thing that destroys marriages.  Secular Society (and infortunately some "pious" religious societies) are SELFISH rather than SELFLESS.  People do what they want, when they want, how they want, because THEY want...."Forget my husband or wife, THEY don't understand MY desires"

Yes, I am quite selfish in that I do what I want, when I want and how I want. Is there any better reason to serve a significant other than because you really WANT to? If you don't want to care for a person and you don't want to have a relationship and you don't want to help them seek their desires then you are going to have an unhappy marriage. I have seen many people who are miserable in marriage but remain in it because they are supposed to. Rather than being honest with their spouse about their desires they hide them which is rather unhealthy. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

This is the problem with athiests.  "I don't have to be open and honest with my spouse"= I don't REALLY trust this person with my life.

Hmmm, in my experience more atheists are far more open and honest with their spouses. If you wanted to fuck your spouses friend would you tell her? Or would you even lie to yourself? I agree that honesty is paramount to any healthy relationship. I also am quite aware that very few people are honest in their relationships. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

"I can window shop, as long as I don't buy"=Majority of the time ends up in adultry

What's wrong with buying?

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why is divorce so devastating?

Is it? Mine was painful, scary, thrilling, exciting, sad and a whole slew of other emotions for a period of time. It is natural that when you are radically changing your life that you will experience those emotions. I experienced the same types of feelings when I initially got married. But over time you adjust to your new life. I would hardly describe it as "devastating", although depending on the exact circumstances others may have different experiences. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why is one or bother parties completely destroyed emotionally in a non-marital sexual relationship? 

They are? How many non-marital sexual relationships have you been in? This does not match my experience at all. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

The act of intercourse physically, emotionally, and spiritually bonds 2 individuals on such an intense level, that the Bible simply describes it as 2 become 1. THIS is why intercourse is reserved for marriage, because of that bond.  Actually under the law of Moses if you slept with someone out of wedlock, you just married them. 

So you can only have an intense bond with one person? Why? 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Why do I believe this is all tried and true?  My wife and I went through things only God could have gotten us through.  I was not honest, and held things from my past from her out of fear.....things that she found out on her own, by accident.  She left for 5 days, we barely talked.  She would not accept apology, she doubted in my faith, she doubted my past was past.  Intense anger was present in our home for a good month.  We slept separately for that time.  What did we do?  we DID NOT divorce.  We both know God never intended divorce.  We prayed to the Lord for eachother every night, but mainly for the Lord to work in us individually, and worked on our personal relationships with Him.  We sought out BIBLICAL counseling.  What did the counseler do?  Well he started in Genesis 2, and from there we walked through scripture on guidance to what we must do.  I learned that secrets destroy, lies destroy, deceit destroys.  My wife learned that by kicking me out of the room she was punishing me by using the marriage bed as her personal space.  After a month we came together again, and she was able to forgive me.  We are now in a couple's small group learning more about Biblical marriage than we ever knew. 

Good for you, I hope you both learned from your mistakes and you are happy.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

During that time did part of me want to fear that we would never come out on the other side?  YES did she? YES  But with prayer, searching the scripture, working on our personal relationships with the Lord, and Biblical support from those around us we found the light at the end of the tunnel and our marriage now is better than it ever was.

Some people bond over super hero movies, some bond through shared hobbies or shared passions. Apparently the two of you find a shared bond with your bible fantasy. I am glad it works for you, doesn't provide any evidence that the bible is true.   

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Nobody but God could have brought us through.

There you are dead wrong. Many people work out their relationship issues without believing in god or believing in a different god. It might surprise you to learn that atheists, buddhists, hindus, muslims and people of every religious belief or lack of belief have relationships and marriages- they often have difficulties that are probably near identical to yours and many of them work through it, some of them don't.  

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


pauljohntheskeptic
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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

quoting "myths and legends" from various parts around the world does not show proof that Moses and Abraham did not exist.

Whoosh !!!!

The sound of the goalposts moving. I thought the subject was one man and one woman and marriage.

I love how you ignored every question I asked and then introduced a new goal.

See my 800 some post thread titled OT Stories - Myths, Legends, Parables or Real - http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/17279 I have been discussing the OT stories with Caposkia for about 3 years. Start around post 88 for Abe.

My views are adequately expressed and supported on both Abe & Moses in that thread.

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Ceremonial vows were introduced by mankind overtime.  There were no ceremonial vows needed to show their marriage...it is inferred, silly. Genesis was given to Moses, then he transcribed it.  He knew what marriage was, the isrealites knew what marriage was.  If you know what chocolate is, and experience chocolate you don't have to taste it EVERY TIME to know what it takes like.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

quoting "myths and legends" from various parts around the world does not show proof that Moses and Abraham did not exist.

Whoosh !!!!

The sound of the goalposts moving. I thought the subject was one man and one woman and marriage.

I love how you ignored every question I asked and then introduced a new goal.

See my 800 some post thread titled OT Stories - Myths, Legends, Parables or Real - http://www.rationalresponders.com/forum/17279 I have been discussing the OT stories with Caposkia for about 3 years. Start around post 88 for Abe.

My views are adequately expressed and supported on both Abe & Moses in that thread.

 

So, PJTS tradition states that Moses gave us the Torah.  PROVE to me that God did not dictate the Torah to him.  Prove to me that multiple recorded incidents of an identical account doesn't further affirm it. 

 

I could see a racoon crossing my driveway, and my wife could see it too, although through a different angle, different lighting, different distance.  We both have the same story but different versions of it, so should the recipient of this story claim that we didn't see a racoon b/c we both told the story differently?

There are more than 270 flood legends in the world....me thinks this POINTS to a flood!

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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TWD39 would be delighted to make your acquaintance . .

JesusLovesYou wrote:

 

quoting "myths and legends" from various parts around the world does not show proof that Moses and Abraham did not exist.

 Hi JesusLovesYou. How is Emily .. I do hope she is well.  TWD39 He/she would be delighted to make your acquaintance (TWD is on the board). For a moment  I miss read what you said. It sounded as if you hit a raccoon crossing your drive-way. If so, after the raccoon insident i'd stay away from manageri though

 

 

 


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JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Ceremonial vows were introduced by mankind overtime.  There were no ceremonial vows needed to show their marriage...it is inferred, silly. Genesis was given to Moses, then he transcribed it.  He knew what marriage was, the isrealites knew what marriage was.  If you know what chocolate is, and experience chocolate you don't have to taste it EVERY TIME to know what it takes like.

QUOTE the exact words from Genesis where they swore to fuck no one else but each other. QUOTE the exact words where there is any issue of fucking anyone or anything else. There is no inference permitted to anyone. It says what it says. It does not say they are married, period.

While you are at it produce the evidence Genesis was given to Moses. Without evidence you don't have jack. Next produce physical evidence there was a Moses. No evidence no Jack either. You are also invited to produce physical evidence of Israelites.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. You believers jump in with any crap you want and think you can get away with it just because you are stupid enough to believe things that you "infer" into your own claimed source material. You can't find it so you imagine it. There is no indication of marriage whatsoever in the story. Yet you are dumb enough to invent it and even dumber to expect anyone else to take you seriously.

No quotes, no physical evidence, no nothing. Just the usual baseless assertions of believers.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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A_Nony_Mouse

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Ceremonial vows were introduced by mankind overtime.  There were no ceremonial vows needed to show their marriage...it is inferred, silly. Genesis was given to Moses, then he transcribed it.  He knew what marriage was, the isrealites knew what marriage was.  If you know what chocolate is, and experience chocolate you don't have to taste it EVERY TIME to know what it takes like.

QUOTE the exact words from Genesis where they swore to fuck no one else but each other. QUOTE the exact words where there is any issue of fucking anyone or anything else. There is no inference permitted to anyone. It says what it says. It does not say they are married, period.

While you are at it produce the evidence Genesis was given to Moses. Without evidence you don't have jack. Next produce physical evidence there was a Moses. No evidence no Jack either. You are also invited to produce physical evidence of Israelites.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. You believers jump in with any crap you want and think you can get away with it just because you are stupid enough to believe things that you "infer" into your own claimed source material. You can't find it so you imagine it. There is no indication of marriage whatsoever in the story. Yet you are dumb enough to invent it and even dumber to expect anyone else to take you seriously.

No quotes, no physical evidence, no nothing. Just the usual baseless assertions of believers.

 

 

There are PLENTY of Jews that walk this earth, the same blood that ran through Moses' veins, through the israelites' vains runs through theirs.  I DARE you to walk up to a Jew and tell them they have false heritage.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


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JesusLovesYou wrote:
So, PJTS tradition states that Moses gave us the Torah.  PROVE to me that God did not dictate the Torah to him.  Prove to me that multiple recorded incidents of an identical account doesn't further affirm it.

Prove to you? You are too stupid to understand what prove means. That you choose to believe something just because a bunch of your fellows idiots believe it doesn't mean jack to rational people.

Why not stay away until you have something new?

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Ceremonial vows were introduced by mankind overtime.  There were no ceremonial vows needed to show their marriage...it is inferred, silly. Genesis was given to Moses, then he transcribed it.  He knew what marriage was, the isrealites knew what marriage was.  If you know what chocolate is, and experience chocolate you don't have to taste it EVERY TIME to know what it takes like.

QUOTE the exact words from Genesis where they swore to fuck no one else but each other. QUOTE the exact words where there is any issue of fucking anyone or anything else. There is no inference permitted to anyone. It says what it says. It does not say they are married, period.

While you are at it produce the evidence Genesis was given to Moses. Without evidence you don't have jack. Next produce physical evidence there was a Moses. No evidence no Jack either. You are also invited to produce physical evidence of Israelites.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. You believers jump in with any crap you want and think you can get away with it just because you are stupid enough to believe things that you "infer" into your own claimed source material. You can't find it so you imagine it. There is no indication of marriage whatsoever in the story. Yet you are dumb enough to invent it and even dumber to expect anyone else to take you seriously.

No quotes, no physical evidence, no nothing. Just the usual baseless assertions of believers.

There are PLENTY of Jews that walk this earth, the same blood that ran through Moses' veins, through the israelites' vains runs through theirs.  I DARE you to walk up to a Jew and tell them they have false heritage.

Rather than admit you have no physical evidence and can quote nothing in support of your claim you post more lies about Moses and blood and crap. You are in the running for top idiot poster of the week and it is still only Sunday.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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JesusLovesYou

JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

A_Nony_Mouse wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:
Anyway, God created marriage between a MAN and a WOMAN

Would you take the time to quote the words from Genesis which comprise the marriage ceremony? A marriage has always required certain statements by the parties involved. There are none that I have found.

Therefore they were not married. They were just friends with benefits.

Ceremonial vows were introduced by mankind overtime.  There were no ceremonial vows needed to show their marriage...it is inferred, silly. Genesis was given to Moses, then he transcribed it.  He knew what marriage was, the isrealites knew what marriage was.  If you know what chocolate is, and experience chocolate you don't have to taste it EVERY TIME to know what it takes like.

QUOTE the exact words from Genesis where they swore to fuck no one else but each other. QUOTE the exact words where there is any issue of fucking anyone or anything else. There is no inference permitted to anyone. It says what it says. It does not say they are married, period.

While you are at it produce the evidence Genesis was given to Moses. Without evidence you don't have jack. Next produce physical evidence there was a Moses. No evidence no Jack either. You are also invited to produce physical evidence of Israelites.

This is like shooting fish in a barrel. You believers jump in with any crap you want and think you can get away with it just because you are stupid enough to believe things that you "infer" into your own claimed source material. You can't find it so you imagine it. There is no indication of marriage whatsoever in the story. Yet you are dumb enough to invent it and even dumber to expect anyone else to take you seriously.

No quotes, no physical evidence, no nothing. Just the usual baseless assertions of believers.

 

 

There are PLENTY of Jews that walk this earth, the same blood that ran through Moses' veins, through the israelites' vains runs through theirs.  I DARE you to walk up to a Jew and tell them they have false heritage.

And they hate the Palestinians who also (supposedly) have Moses' blood flowing through their veins. Why do you think that is? Granted, I realize that, as a good Paulist, you want Jews and Muslims equally dead so Jesus can come but I'd still like an answer.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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David's Thankfulness from a portion of 2 Samuel . . . .

 Hi JesusLoves you, me again. You know there are passages of in the Bible that speak of thankfulness. I was reviewing a passage of scripture in 2 Sam. very late last night.  And  it sounds stupid but it dawned on me it could be rather down right confusing to the popular imagination. To find "fire breathing" and "lightning-bolts" attributed to Yahweh. (TWD is MIA or wait(-ing) for that right moment to answer the board, so if you could stand-in instead.) The passage is lengthy  but I'll assume you've got time, silly:

  Then David spoke to the Lord (Yahweh) the words of this song, on the day when the Yahweh had delivered him from the hand of all his enemies, and from the hand of Saul. 2 And he said: “The Yahweh is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer; 3 The my God (Elohim) of my  strength, in whom I will trust; My shield and the horn of my salvation, My stronghold and my refuge; My Savior, You save me from violence. 4  I will call upon Yahweh, who is worthy to be praised;  So  shall I be saved from my enemies. 5 “When the waves of death surrounded me, The floods of ungodliness made me afraid. 6 The sorrows of Sheol surrounded me; The snares of death confronted me. 7 In my distress I called upon Yahweh, And cried out to Elyon; He heard my voice from His temple, And my cry entered His ears.  8. "Then the earth shook and trembled; The foundations of heaven  quaked and were shaken, Because He was angry. 9 Smoke went up from His nostrils, And devouring fire from His mouth; Coals were kindled by it. 10  He bowed the heavens also, and came down  With darkness under His feet. 11 He rode upon a cherub, and flew; And He was seen upon the wings of the wind. 12 He made darkness canopies around Him, Dark waters and thick clouds of the skies.  13 From the brightness before Him Coals of fire were kindled. 14 “Yahweh thundered from heaven, And the Most High [Elyon] uttered His voice. 15 He sent out arrows and scattered them; Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them. 16 Then the channels of the sea were seen, The foundations of the world were uncovered, At the rebuke of Yahweh, At the blast of the breath of His nostrils. 17 “He sent from above, He took me, He drew out of many waters. 18 He delivered me from my strong enemy, From those who hated me; For they were too strong for me. 19 They confronted me in the day of my calamity, But Yahweh was my support. 20 He also brought me out into a broad place; He delivered me because He delighted in me. 21 “Yahweh has rewarded me according to my righteousness; According to the cleanness of my hands He has recompensed me. 22 For I have kept the ways of the Lord [Yahweh], And have not wickedly departed from my God (?). 23 For all His judgments were before me; And as for His statutes, I did not depart from them. 24 I was also blameless before Him, And I kept myself from my iniquity.25 Therefore Yahweh has recompensed me according to my righteousness, According to my cleanness in His eyes. 26a “With the merciful You will show Yourself merciful; With a blameless man You will show Yourself blameless .." etc.

 


Atheistextremist
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The fact is

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Nobody but God could have brought us through.

 

you and your wife managed to get through your troubles by yourselves with no input whatever from god, showing your statement above to be flawed. God did not intervene. He did not come down from heaven and counsel you. No, you did it all by yourselves and you deserve the entire credit. 

JLY, you have the habit of endlessly insulting atheists as you spill your naked assertions about the scenery. This is called fallacious ad hominem and it marks you as a broken thinker. If you need to pepper your arguments with insults about the alleged failings and selfishness of atheists it suggests your arguments are feeble and unable to stand on their own two feet. 

In any case, while it's good hear you folks have worked through your issues, this fact is not proof of the existence of a supernatural god you anthropomorphize without definition or proof as 'nobody but god'.  

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


Atheistextremist
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Oh, dear.

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

PROVE to me that God did not dictate the Torah to him.  Prove to me that multiple recorded incidents of an identical account doesn't further affirm it. 

 

This is a fallacious appeal to ignorance. You are making the objective truth claim here and the burden rests with you to find data to support your hypothesis. Religion does not have a free pass to indulge in irrational thinking when it moves from making claims about those things that cannot be known such as first cause, to those things that can be known, like supernatural intervention into the material world. Any objective claim you make about god's activities in this reality must be objectively supported. 

 

JesusLovesYou wrote:

There are more than 270 flood legends in the world....me thinks this POINTS to a flood!

 

This points to the fact that the mechanisms keeping symbiotic cellular colonies alive cannot survive without regular top-ups of fresh water. Vital to life, water also weighs 1 kilogram per litre and moving it about in heavy, clay jugs in the quantities needed to supply a small town of 5000 people was a backbreaking process. In the absence of pressurized plumbing, tankage and Dr Pepper, the ancients had a single recourse to meet their needs and circumvent the associated logistical challenges. To live right on top of large, year-round fresh water sources; which, as we all know; never spill over their floodplains and inundate the villages perched on their banks. 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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danatemporary wrote:
14 “Yahweh thundered from heaven, And the Most High [Elyon] uttered His voice. 15 He sent out arrows and scattered them; Lightning bolts, and He vanquished them. 16 Then the channels of the sea were seen, The foundations of the world were uncovered, At the rebuke of Yahweh, At the blast of the breath of His nostrils.

So much for the pure spirit stuff.

 

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml


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JesusLovesYou wrote:Vastet

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

So then you have no proof and you expect us to buy your fairy tale based on the lies and delusions of ignorant and primitive people. Good luck with that.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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My first marriage was torn

My first marriage was torn apart by religion. It lasted 10 years. I have a Christian friend whose marriage was also torn apart by religion. I think it is more common than you realize, JLY.
So I left religion and married again to a non-believer. We have been married for 17 years and our marriage has only gotten better.
In both cases I have been faithful.
God, not required, only honesty.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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JesusLovesYou wrote:From the

JesusLovesYou wrote:

From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE...

When you prove that your god exists, and for that matter, any other god doesn't exist, then I'll listen to your opinion.

 

 

Free will is an illusion. People always choose the perceived path of greatest pleasure.

-Scott Adams


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pauljohntheskeptic

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 


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Brian37 wrote:JesusLovesYou

Brian37 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

No, your "text" was written by tribal ignorant goat hearders over 1,000 year period and 40 authors with books left out. It is a book of myth and fiction like all other holy books.

 

 

Prove it.  Those "ignorant goat herders" wrote truths that people today can apply to their lives such as the topic of finance.  You can learn a lot from the Bible:

Proverbs 10:4
 

Proverbs 13:4

Proverbs 14:23

Proverbs 1:19

Proverbs 14:21

Proverbs 11:15  - dangers of being a co-signer on a loan

Proverbs 22:7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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TWD39

TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

You would have made a great judge in Salem, Mass in 1692. After all, you accept spectral evidence more quickly than they did.

Or would you have been one of the accusers?

“We are what we always were in Salem, but now the little crazy children are jangling the keys of the kingdom, and common vengeance writes the law!”
Arthur Miller, The Crucible

 

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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TWD39 wrote:Brian37

TWD39 wrote:

Brian37 wrote:

JesusLovesYou wrote:

Vastet wrote:
Uh huh.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
From the very first week of existance God established MARRIAGE.
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
He made Adam
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
so from Adam God created Eve
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
Not as his servant, but as his partner-in-crime, his helper, his confidant.  Im sure most of you are atheists partly because some "power-hungry" men in the past oppressed women in the name of the Lord.....BUT they Bible has nothing of the sort.....
Prove it.
JesusLovesYou wrote:
etc
PROVE IT.

the proof is all in the text

No, your "text" was written by tribal ignorant goat hearders over 1,000 year period and 40 authors with books left out. It is a book of myth and fiction like all other holy books.

 

 

Prove it.  Those "ignorant goat herders" wrote truths that people today can apply to their lives such as the topic of finance.  You can learn a lot from the Bible:

Proverbs 10:4
 

Proverbs 13:4

Proverbs 14:23

Proverbs 1:19

Proverbs 14:21

Proverbs 11:15  - dangers of being a co-signer on a loan

Proverbs 22:7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Those rules were old when the writers of the Bible were young. Or do you really think that working hard was new to these people where they lived? Or that they didn't know the risks of borrowing?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


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TWD39 wrote:You have no

TWD39 wrote:

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

Actually, I do have proof. Here are some examples: snakes are incapable of speech, the universe was not created in 7 days, the sun did not form after the earth, and humans cannot live for 900 years (at least not yet). I imagine other people on the forum could provide you with more (and probably better) examples.

 


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JesusLovesYou wrote:So, PJTS

JesusLovesYou wrote:

So, PJTS tradition states that Moses gave us the Torah.  PROVE to me that God did not dictate the Torah to him.  Prove to me that multiple recorded incidents of an identical account doesn't further affirm it. 

 

 

Traditions hold many things to have happened Once Upon a Time but I don't see you worshiping Shiva, Visnhu and Brahma.

Prove to us all you god exists in the real world and Shiva, Visnhu and Brahma do not.

Your request suggests the Hebrew Bible is somehow evidence your god and a character from the story actually exist.

What physical evidence do you have for:

Moses - artifacts ? writing by anyone of the time period? physical evidence showing millions wandered the Sinai for 40 years? Egyptian records of Hebrews as slaves and a rebellion where millions left?

The Torah - actual dated documents to the 2nd millenium BCE signed by Moses?

Your claim Moses wrote the Torah has been discredited time and time again by countless scholars. Prove that Bart Ehrman's analysis is incorrect. Prove that Jpseph Wheless is wrong is his book titled forgery.

Your god - Show actual proof he/she/it exists - proof that can be tested, observed - not just claims by 2000 year old propaganda and fairy tales.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

I could see a racoon crossing my driveway, and my wife could see it too, although through a different angle, different lighting, different distance.  We both have the same story but different versions of it, so should the recipient of this story claim that we didn't see a racoon b/c we both told the story differently?

If it was only that simple.

JesusLovesYou wrote:

There are more than 270 flood legends in the world....me thinks this POINTS to a flood!

Yep, floods happen. I've seen those up close and persoanl.

World-wide - nope. Where's the water now? Where's the proof the fairy tale was not an expansion of the Sumerian flood story which is likely only a Cat 5 Hurricane going up the Persian Gulf?

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


pauljohntheskeptic
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TWD

TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

Starting out by zapping all into existence like several others, morphing the story of Adapa from Sumer, creating the Lady of the Rib as in Nin-ti from the same story of Enki pretty much indicates the origin of your fairy tales.

Then add talking snakes, events that have no physical possibility and you have essentially what? Myths and legends.

If you think you have proof the Book of Genesis actually happened as written, show it now!

 

____________________________________________________________
"I guess it's time to ask if you live under high voltage power transmission lines which have been shown to cause stimulation of the fantasy centers of the brain due to electromagnetic waves?" - Me

"God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent, - it says so right here on the label. If you have a mind capable of believing all three of these divine attributes simultaneously, I have a wonderful bargain for you. No checks please. Cash and in small bills." - Robert A Heinlein.


Vastet
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TWD39

TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

All of science proves the bible is a book of myth and falsehood. We have more than a thousand years of proof. You've got nothing.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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It doesnt help my books are all still in storage . . . .

 

 

pauljohntheskeptic wrote 

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:
Starting out by zapping all into existence like several others, morphing 'the story of Adapa' from Sumer, creating the Lady of the Rib as in Nin-ti from the same story of Enki pretty much indicates the origin of your fairy tales.

 

 

  I couldnt tell you why but I always conflate the stories of Adapa and Etana in my mind. It doesnt help my books are all still in storage. I haven't read the story of Adapa and the South wind in many years. I have always been friends with learning with a willingness and enthusiasm to know more than what would seem even necessary. That's why it hurts so bad to be parted from my books.

Proverbs 14:23 -- All hard work brings a profit but mere talk leads only to poverty.
  But, Is this mere 'idle chatter', by what PaulJohntheskeptic suggests ? Or no ?

 

 


TWD39
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Vastet wrote:TWD39

Vastet wrote:
TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

All of science proves the bible is a book of myth and falsehood. We have more than a thousand years of proof. You've got nothing.

Really every bit of science disproves the Bible?   Genesis 1 tells me that man was the last animal created.  Can you find another animal species as developed as humans?  Why are we the only species that developed the ability to speak?  WHy are the only species that creates music?  Dozens of questions like this.  If I look further, Job 26:7 tells me that the earth is suspended in space.

Leviticus 17:11 tells me that life is in the blood.  Do you disagree with this?

Luke 17:34-36 is another interesting verse.  It describes the coming of Christ during a time where some people are asleep at night, and others are working on the field.  This would only be possible with a rotating earth around the sun.

 

I'm having a hard time seeing this inaccurate book of myths that you allude to.  Atheism, by definition, is a myth though.

 

 

 

 


Anonymouse
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TWD39 wrote:Leviticus 17:11

TWD39 wrote:
Leviticus 17:11 tells me that life is in the blood.  Do you disagree with this?

How much "life" do you think you'll have left if all the other fluids get taken out ?

TWD39 wrote:
Luke 17:34-36 is another interesting verse.

I'll say !

TWD39 wrote:
It describes the coming of Christ during a time where some people are asleep at night, and others are working on the field.  This would only be possible with a rotating earth around the sun.

Luke wrote:
17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two men in one bed ?

*starts gathering stones*


TWD39
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Anonymouse wrote: TWD39

Anonymouse wrote:

 

TWD39 wrote:
Leviticus 17:11 tells me that life is in the blood.  Do you disagree with this?

How much "life" do you think you'll have left if all the other fluids get taken out ?

TWD39 wrote:
Luke 17:34-36 is another interesting verse.

I'll say !

TWD39 wrote:
It describes the coming of Christ during a time where some people are asleep at night, and others are working on the field.  This would only be possible with a rotating earth around the sun.

Luke wrote:
17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.

17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Two men in one bed ?

*starts gathering stones*

 

 

Typical atheist response.  Instead of addressing my point specifically, you take it in another direction of mockery.  Besides, some translations say two people in the same bed.


jcgadfly
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TWD39 wrote:Vastet

TWD39 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

All of science proves the bible is a book of myth and falsehood. We have more than a thousand years of proof. You've got nothing.

Really every bit of science disproves the Bible?   Genesis 1 tells me that man was the last animal created.  Can you find another animal species as developed as humans?  Why are we the only species that developed the ability to speak?  WHy are the only species that creates music?  Dozens of questions like this.  If I look further, Job 26:7 tells me that the earth is suspended in space.

 

Leviticus 17:11 tells me that life is in the blood.  Do you disagree with this?

 

Luke 17:34-36 is another interesting verse.  It describes the coming of Christ during a time where some people are asleep at night, and others are working on the field.  This would only be possible with a rotating earth around the sun.

 

I'm having a hard time seeing this inaccurate book of myths that you allude to.  Atheism, by definition, is a myth though.

 

 

 

 

Job 9:6 describes the earth as being on pillars. Are the pillars hanging on nothing as well?

They knew that day and night happened without knowing why. Actually, they believed at that time that the sun revolved around the earth.

I can see where you'd have a hard time seeing this stuff. It requires reading the book. 

Love to see your strawman of atheism though.

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Anonymouse
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TWD39 wrote:Typical

TWD39 wrote:

Typical atheist response.  Instead of addressing my point specifically, you take it in another direction of mockery.  Besides, some translations say two people in the same bed.

 

Typical theist tactic. You ignore me when I address your point directly, so I thought I'd try this. Instant success.

And btw, it's not mockery, it's simply just as far-fetched as your claims of bible science.

 

So anyway, how you been, Paisley ? 


danatemporary
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Straighten up and fly right; straighten up and be right (song):

 Straighten up and fly right; straighten up and be right (song):

TWD39 wrote:

Vastet wrote:
TWD39 wrote:

pauljohntheskeptic wrote:

There are several fairy tales myths on how marriage began, the Genesis account is one of them.

 

You have no proof that the book of  Genesis is a book of myths and fairy tales (a derogatory term used to belittle Christians).  Lack of evidence is not factual proof either.

 

All of science proves the bible is a book of myth and falsehood. We have more than a thousand years of proof. You've got nothing.

Really? Every bit of science disproves the Bible? 

  So every bit of science disproves the bible, huh ? So, You're saying 100% of the articles in Wikipedia are wrong, huh ( reference to a statement made in TWD's own neglected Thread ) ?

 

 PS -- Straighten up and fly right; straighten up and be right (song lyrics by Nat King Cole). What can I say? Raised by old people BTW, Job also mentions who is the king of all the arrogant  :¬

 

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