Why do athiest' care?

amp1022
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Why do athiest' care?

I have a question for all atheist'. What is the point in your life without a higher power? I don't mean it as an insult, but as a sincere question. What is the point in arguing against a religion that you believe is just as fictional as harry potter or star wars? Why do you care if a televangelist takes an old lady's social security check? If we all are here by chance, or whatever you want to call it, then who cares what anyone does? In a million years none of us will exist, there will not even be a memory of an old lady or her money. If only the physical exists, then the past does not exist. Your memories are just information stored in the grey matter encased in your skull. Anything anyone did yesterday, good or bad, means absolutely nothing today, because even those affected by it will soon cease to exist and the memory will be deleted and there will be no reward or justice of any kind.

If you are right, then there is absolutely no reason to even try to behave with any kind of morality, because its completely relative. If a man feels good about forcing himself on a woman, then who can tell him that is wrong? He is just a walking, talking assemblage of meat and bone, interacting with another assemblage. Why would it matter what kind of interaction takes place? If a man believes that he should murder a million people because it is right to him, then who are you to say it is immoral? It would only be immoral to you and the morals that you chose for yourself, not to him and the morals he chose.

If I say it is wrong to be homosexual, the typical question I get is; who am I to make that judgement call? Well I pose the same question, according to you there is no higher power or authority, so what drives you to do right? And furthermore what gives you the right to distinguish right from wrong? How is murdering a human any different than murdering a fly? Both are moving, thinking organisms that evolved from lesser ones, neither has a greater destiny or purpose. Why is punching a person different from punching a rock, both cause a reaction in an object, both cause physical pain, and neither will have any impact on the great scheme of things, mainly because according to you there is no great scheme.

The easy answer is that you do the right thing because it comes natural to most people, or because you love others and want to give them happy meaningful lives, sounds great, except that violence and anger comes naturally to a lot of people and you call that wrong, and love is just an abstract idea used to describe co-dependance and attachment. You could treat a rock respectfully and compassionately for a hundred years, but it means nothing because there is no greater reward or justice. If you are right, humans are just as meaningless as rocks.  If you are right, and we are all just pieces of meat and all we have to look forward to is 60 or 70 years of meaningless pursuits, you should be grieving, not bragging.

So put very simply, what is the point in trying to maintain any semblance of humanity if nothing comes after this life?


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TWD39 wrote:harleysportster

TWD39 wrote:

harleysportster wrote:

TWD39 wrote:

 

Being a Christian means freedom from sin and more abundant life.  Freedom from the desire to engage in harmful sinful activities.  Sure you are free to look at hot women, lust for them, and have sex with multiple partners.  But God didn't design it that way because it damages a person.  Let's just say, if you followed God's laws on sex, you wouldn't have to be sweating out waiting for your HIV test results! 

 

You mean like condoning women being forced to marry rape victims in the old testament and putting men to death for homosexuality ? You mean like the tales of incest and such ?

 

 

The Bible does not condone rape.  That is simply your misinterpretation.  Funny how atheists refuse to accept any other interpretation except the ones that make God look bad.  Any tales of incest only demonstrate the honesty of the Bible.  It  doesn't sweep anything under the rug.  Man did some pretty rotten things back then.  The Bible reports the truth as it happen.  Doesn't mean God approved of man's action.

 

Actually it does unless the woman screams loudly enough to be heard. Or are you one of those "she didn't yell enough so it wasn't rape" people. Are you Todd Akin writing under another name?

"I do this real moron thing, and it's called thinking. And apparently I'm not a very good American because I like to form my own opinions."
— George Carlin


Brian37
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Quote:I am not trying to

Quote:
I am not trying to insult your intelligence, honestly. But you are only repeating my question as a statement. Emotions, ups and downs, and…?  What? To what end, it all means nothing. How is it different than a dog enjoying a bone or a fish eating a worm. They enjoy it and it means nothing

Nice false analogy. If ejoyment is anything then enjoying an ice cream cone and being a cerial killer enjoyine slitting a womans throat constitues "enjoyment" means both are equal becauss life doesn't mean shit, means you don't know shit about evolution or human phscyoloigy.

What you are to fucking dense to see is caused by your own wishful thinking in wanting a super hero.

I do not have the same "enjoyment" in seeing a movie, as a serial killer would "enjoy" slitting a woman's throat. That is a fucking absurd equasion.

You love, for example, certian foods, some like stakes, others like chicken and others only eat veggies. Is that "love" the same love you have for your brother or mother?

When I talk about life being "meaningles"  I am talking strictly in the scope of the universe, not my current finite time. The egotist thinks their ideas will last forever. I don't. I am simply arguing for the common condition none of us can ecape.

 

 

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Re :: I wont succeed convincing U of the importance of . . .

harleysportster wrote:

TWD39 wrote:

 

A simple acknowledgement that you were wrong would be nice.  At the very least, stop whining that I don't respond to posts. 

Maybe if you ever actually answered a post I would. Instead, you persist on being a little bitch.

  TWD39 

  To:: TWD39  I know I wont succeed in convincing you of the importance of answering posts. All I can do is simply let you know that it is in your best interest to do so. How so ? Simply there are indications of a pattern developing in which you respond to taughting and jeering. While more serious and honest questions from honest questioners are left in limbo. If this pattern persists, that will cause you problems in the future, no ? I obviously am referring to your recent thread. It pays to consider what I am saying, because honest questions will leave, and all you will end up with is taughts and jeers from the peanut gallery. While others wont bother to sit in on your threads, there is a risk of this happening already. 

 

 

 


GodsUseForAMosquito
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 we may be witnessing how

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 


ex-minister
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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 

You nailed it. Smiling

I am thinking of TWD as Jean lite, a dumbed down version.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

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x
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Clarification

amp1022 wrote:

x wrote:

We all have it and that's why even atheist are generally nice

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7hFalUhQelIATpBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1a3JpaHZpBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/...

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7hFalUhQelIATpBXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1a3JpaHZpBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA1ZJUDA0OV8xNTQ-/...

just a couple of the hundreds of "nice" reactions atheist' have had toward my beliefs. Ads like this could not be more anti-american, it makes the hate in your minds so obvious. As a soldier in the U.S. army I find atheist' groups behavior disgusting lately. I am mocked daily for my beliefs and listen to a constant flow of insults to the beliefs I hold most dearly, that is nice? Go to the middle east where that kind of behavior belongs.

I had a bit of trouble getting your links to work I'm afraid, but they both seem to point to the PETA ad.

I don't think they are an atheist organisation and the comments on that page seem quite mild.

I should probably define what I mean by 'generally nice'. I mean generally adhering to The Golden Rule. That still allows people to defend their position and use mockery. In fact, mockery is a lot nicer than the threats atheists get about burning in hell and the moves religions make to enforce their beliefs on the populace.

Your Middle East comment is perplexing. You'll find that atheists are generally not treated very nicely there.


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I will attempt to answer

I will attempt to answer your questions (assuming you actually care about the answers) in as concise a way as possible.

 

1) As to why I fight and argue against religions, it's a bit like finally breaking yourself free from a set of chains and realizing that other people need to be broken free as well. There's also the fact that most people use religion as a justification for discriminating against others or seek to get preferential treatment for their faith. Such things are a problem, something that I opposed even when I was a believer. In a practical sense I also fight against it because magical thinking, and that's really what religions are along with other superstitions, risks the lives of other people. How many people are debilitated by disease because those around them refused to get vaccinated due to fearmongering? How many people lost their savings on quackery like homeopathy or faith healing trying to restore their bodies or simply hold a condition at bay. If believing in something helps you get through the day, like a cup of coffee might help me in the morning, fine, but when you try to use it to dictate the strictures of society, then we have an issue.

2) As to the point in my life, my friends, my family, my writing, the beauty in the world and the grand vistas I can create. Beautiful novels that bring me to mindscapes alien horrible and beautiful. Movies that spark my mind, or just work as a bit of brain candy. Love, I'm single but hey, I figure I might find someone one day. My life isn't necessarily some kind of grand design for it, but there is plenty of purpose to life. If there is no grand design or architect, why not do something amazing, why not explore and try to make something beautiful from the chaos of the world. Bring someone joy, offer aid to those who could use it, do something kind, or create something that might endure. If you seriously think that I need a magic being to make my life have meaning, that it's needed for any life to have meaning, I pity you. I seriously feel sorry for you that you've never experienced the love or beauty of the world as I have and I hope sincerely that you can find it, not necessarily to make you lose your faith but to fill that void in your heart that is apparently there.

3) As to the reasons of morality and function, this is what we call the strategy of the commons. Simply put, it is in my best interests if people follow certain regulations and laws. We can say that something is wrong by a concept of empathy, I experience pain, I know that pain is unpleasant, and so I don't want others to do it to me and I will thus also avoid doing it to others. The problem here seems to be that you seem to believe that the default is cruelty, but in such a state we actually couldn't exist. AT least not at any kind of societal level, cooperation is needed to bring down the big beasts in the hunt, to gather and till great fields, to build homes and societies. If you want to look at it, strip away all the layers and philosophy and morality boils down to enlightened self preservation. It is in my interest to be altruistic, therefore I am. I have helped people out when they were in need, some of them, when I was later in need, helped me, remembering my earlier kindness. Not to mention that we actually see examples of a kind of early morality forming based on some AI experiments as well as a somewhat more detailed analysis of the prisoners dilemma.

4) As to what motivates me to do good things, I like making people happy. Maybe it's because I enjoy experiencing joy in others, maybe it's because I am a genuinely nice person. There's also the fact that doing good things is a lot safer for me than trying to harm others. Let's consider first of all that society actually has laws and enforcement methods to deal with me if I'm dangerous. Not to mention that if I do attempt to harm someone I risk myself as well. If some of our moral traits are inborn the people whose traits caused them to get along better with others, well that would probably give them better odds of survival and thus those traits pass on. Though that's assuming such traits are heritable. Oh, I should also add that they find examples of ape troops where people compete to be seen as the most altruistic member of the group because it increases their chances of reproduction and getting food. Doing good things is rewarded and thus we do it, a skinner box reductionist view I know, but it is another viable explanation.

5) I would also point out that over time laws do actually change as we come to conclusions about what is just and unjust. However your texts, if taken as law, would murder anyone who prays to a different god. Stone someone to death for disobeying a parent or taking a deities name in vain. Not to mention forcing a woman to marry her rapist. I would also ask you why even care about this world if there's an afterlife waiting. I mean if this life is finite and the next is infinite, why even care about this life or this existence?


TWD39
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ex-minister

ex-minister wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 

You nailed it. Smiling

I am thinking of TWD as Jean lite, a dumbed down version.

 

Great job on ignoring my question


GodsUseForAMosquito
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TWD39 wrote:ex-minister

TWD39 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 

You nailed it. Smiling

I am thinking of TWD as Jean lite, a dumbed down version.

 

Great job on ignoring my question

 

Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)


harleysportster
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GodsUseForAMosquito

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

TWD39 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 

You nailed it. Smiling

I am thinking of TWD as Jean lite, a dumbed down version.

 

Great job on ignoring my question

 

Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." (Matthew 7:1-5 RSV)

I notice that he conveniently ignored danatemporary's post and went with the easiest one that he could type a one sentence answer to. The troll badge will be in route at this rate.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


Vastet
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TWD39 wrote:ex-minister

TWD39 wrote:

ex-minister wrote:

GodsUseForAMosquito wrote:

 we may be witnessing how trolls are born.... 

You nailed it. Smiling

I am thinking of TWD as Jean lite, a dumbed down version.

 

Great job on ignoring my question

Great job on ignoring dozens of responses to give a one-liner proving you're a hypocrite.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


mellestad
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Now that this is

Now that this is over...Atheist Extremist is, as usual, spot on.

 

This all boils down to the same thing though and that's the idea of metaphysical free will versus the idea that physics is real. Well, and the fact that they've been taught from birth that they're moral monsters with zero innate nobility.

 

Theists honestly can't grok what we're saying because they're convinced they have a magic fairy inside their heads that does all of their thinking in a physical vacuum, with the only influences on moral decisions being other magical fairies whispering "good" and "evil" ideas to their own evil-leaning magic fairy mind.

Atheists are convinced that our physical body *is* us and so can be influenced by physical things...including brain chemistry, mirror neurons and a overall system that evolved to encourage social behavior through biological necessity.

 

So when they are confronted with the idea that moral decisions might be made without the good and evil fairies present to influence/threaten/seduce us, they naturally assume we'll just follow our own fairy's evil nature and go into a hedonistic rape-murder spree.

 

I don't blame them though, they are a product of their environment and many honestly can't change even if they wanted to. I can't beat 18 years of upbringing surrounded by theism, and I'm hard pressed to beat an emotional religious experience. I only hope that, with appropriate interactions, their environment can be changed enough to change their opinions, or those of their children.

Everything makes more sense now that I've stopped believing.


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.

amp1022 wrote:

I have a question for all atheist'. What is the point in your life without a higher power?

What is the point of your life where you cannot distinguish between the existence of a higher power and your belief there is a higher power?

The only thing which differentiates you from the atheist is your belief in the existence not the fact of existence. Whether or not this powere does exist it is your belief it does which governs your life. You believe and real existence is immaterial to that belief.

So the point of your life is based solely upon a belief that exists only in your head. You are creating your own purpose with your own belief. You are really doing nothing more than chasing a fuzzy, warm feeling in your head.

 

Jews stole the land. The owners want it back. That is all anyone needs to know about Israel. That is all there is to know about Israel.

www.ussliberty.org

www.giwersworld.org/made-in-alexandria/index.html

www.giwersworld.org/00_files/zion-hit-points.phtml