Origin of Language = Epic Evolution/Atheist FAIL!
Here is something I find quite puzzling. If God did not create us, and we evolve from other creatures, how did our languages come into existance? The world is full of many rich cultures complete with an unique linguistic form of language following an agreed set of rules. So who created the rules, the sounds, and how did this person or evolutionary ancestor get others to understand and agree with the rules? THis is obviously a huge leap from the primitive grunts and noises that other animal species make. Yes, primates can communicate on a basic level. But they can't verbalize into words, or express complete sentences conveying abstract ideas.
How would you convey to a fellow creature a metaphorical or philosophical question when there is no foundation for language? You can point to objects and make a noise, but that only gets you so far in language. The same problem exists for creating a written language.
Even if evolutionary linguists can come up with a plausible explanation, there remains one big problem. Why don't we all speak the same language?
Another issue is you don't see any transitional forms with anything resembling our complex voice box anatomy. Why did we evolve to have this feature? What was the enviromental factors that separated our genetic line from other animals and created the need for a voice box? I would be more convinced if someone found a fossil that contained at least a primitive form of a voice box.
Sure, there are a number of theories, but they are pretty weak sauce with zero supporting evidence.
OTOH, the Bible perfectly explains how language and culture came into being. Man began with an universal language after the Flood with Noah. Then after the man started building the tower of Babel, God confused the languages which scattered people all over the earth. This also explains why we find global myth stories with many details striking similiar to the Bible's account. They infused their own language and culture into the original story.
Yep, I'll take the truth of the Bible over fallible man's theories anytime.
TWD39 wrote:danatemporary wrote:
Speaking of the fertile land between two rivers, of *the Sumerians ..
Thorkild Jacobsen's translation from one of the oldest bodies of religious texts in the world: " .. taking in, then sending an envoy to Aratta)."
For anyone who can but does not. With a quick internet search on 'google', one finds this . .
In those days...the people entrusted [to him] could address Enlil, verily, in but a single tongue. In those days...did Enki...estrange the tongues in their mouths as many as were put there.. The tongues of men which were one (Jacobsen 1997; cf. Kramer 1968, 1970; Cohen 1973).
Though a lot to take in but you do realize these accounts, of the region, both pre-date and precede the biblical account ?
Quote:Is there conclusive proof that the oldest created written record of Genesis was formed after the sumerian tablets?
Of course there is proof it's know as radio-carbon dating, if you'd bother to do any research to begin with ,you won't have left yourself open to this one.Quote:The OT stories could have been handed down carefully through oral tradition. As mankind scattered after the Babel incident, the stories became diluted and details altered to fit whatever culture they devised.
Interesting theory but you have 'no proof of that' (little sarcasm to point out, it answers nothing when 'you' do this). This is an argument from ignorance. If 'you' were to make the argument the snake in Eden, would be the Genesis (no pun intended) of all the 'snake(s)' legends of the world. Humor me. Hindu myths do not indicate this by there specific stories of Kadru wife of Kashyapa, not wanting to lose a bet (someone you might relate to) tried to get her children, a thousand snakes, to change the color of the tail of the solar horse that drew the sun across the sky. I needn't get into detail or the outcome but there is one significant point not the miss. It was related to the sun in some way. In Egypt, Apep (Apophis) ever threatening the passage of the sun, through the twelve gates And so forth. If they were all derived from the Genesis account. That would actually weaken your position a bit. Because for that to be true ( besides having to ignore history and calender dates), then an underlining 'solar imagery' in the Genesis account, must be found. Only causing all the more problems for you with the 'Bible is 100% correct', as you've alleged.
Not in the way you're suggesting at all. The influence of one religion had on another can be tricky, but not impossible go over. Titles of other Gods being incorporated into the titles for the Hebrew God. The Bible can only be better understood when properly situated within its ancient context. We are the luckiest of generations to be able to immediately have access to so much. There is always the context to consider, as to, the intended audience. It should remain no harm by illuminating the biblical text for modern audiences so culturally removed from their origin. Nothing to be afraid of. An example, “The Cloud Rider”Throughout the Ugaritic texts, which I can attest because I've read them, Baal is repeatedly called “the one who rides the clouds,” or “the one who mounts the clouds.” The description is recognized as an official title of Baal. I would seem part of the literary strategy of the Israelite prophets was to take this well-known title and attribute it to Yahweh in some way. Consequently, Yahweh, the God of Israel, bears this descriptive title in several places in the Old Testament (Isaiah 19:1; Deuteronomy 33:26; Psalm 68:33; 104:3). Though upon examination it is not a word for word exchange (at least not in the English translation). For a faithful Israelite only one God who “rode” on the clouds: Yahweh. Until we get to a passage like Daniel 7, that is. Strong parallel can be found in the Ugaritic materials, which it provides that for us: 9 As I looked on, the thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took His seat. His garment was like white snow, and the hair of His head was like lamb's wool. His throne was fiery flames; its wheels were blazing fire. 10 A river of fire streamed forth before Him; thousands upon thousands served Him; myriads upon myriads attended Him; the court sat and the books were opened . . . 13 As I looked on, in the night vision, One like a son of man came with the clouds of heaven; he came to the Ancient of Days and was presented to Him. 14 Dominion, glory, and kingship were given to him; all peoples and nations of every language must serve him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that shall not pass away, and his kingship, one that shall not be destroyed. The plurality of thrones in the passage tell us plainly that we have here what scholars of the Hebrew Bible call a divine council scene — the high sovereign in his throne room, meeting with the heavenly host. A little removed from a Trinitarian view, with some. The literature of Ugarit has many such scenes, and the biblical divine council and the council at Ugarit are very similar. In point of fact, the flow of Daniel 7 actually follows the flow of a divine council scene in the Baal Cycle:Ugarit / Baal Cycle. Further evidence again the Bible being so ancient; nothing came before. Daniel 7 El, the aged high God, is the ultimate sovereign in the council. Compared with The Ancient of Days, the God of Israel is seated on the fiery, wheeled throne (See : Ezekiel 1). El bestows kingship upon the god Baal, the Cloud-Rider, after Baal defeats the god Yahm in battle. Then there's Yahweh, the Ancient of Days, bestows kingship upon the Son of Man who rides the clouds after the beast from the sea (yamma) is destroyed. It is known Baal, held the Cloud-Rider title! To the Jewish audience reading books like Daniel understood the implications of the prophet Daniel was describing a parallel closely found to follow the Baal cycle.. There are hints the Jews intimately knew the religions that they came in contact with. In relevant speculations on the part of Jewish writers speculated that the “second god” was the archangel Michael, or perhaps Gabriel. Some Jewish writers even wrote that Abraham or Moses occupied that position! For Christians given to typology the answer was obviously Jesus, I imagine. What else could it be. It is well known that Jesus’ favorite title for himself, according to the text, was “son of man.” As Jcgadfly pointed out is either a Messianic title or that of a prophet. It seems perfectly evident in Matthew 26, according to the text, as Jesus stood before Caiaphas. When asked to give the Sanhedrin a straight answer about who he was, Jesus quoted Daniel 7 But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” By quoting this passage, Jesus was making an overt, unmistakable claim to be deity—he in fact was the one who rides on the clouds. That this is no exaggerated interpretation is evident from Caiaphas’ unsurprising reaction: Then the high priest tore his robes and said, “He has uttered blasphemy. What further witnesses do we need? You have now heard his blasphemy.” The statement is only blasphemous if one is claiming to be the rider on the clouds. That idea may have been acceptable to Jews at the time, but it was simply intolerable that this man Jesus would claim to be that. But, I digress. By this case you can see, while fully acknowledging things like the Hebrew בֹּ֔שֶׁת at its' root is the word 'shame' This word is also seen in a direct connection with Baal worship. All of this should be said, while being mindful of the fact of these two passages, as follows:
9 They have gone deep in depravity As in the days of Gibeah;He will remember their iniquity, He will punish their sins.
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your forefathers as the earliest fruit on the fig tree in its first season.But they came to Baal-peor and devoted themselves to shame, And they became as detestable as that which they loved. 11 As for Ephraim, their glory will fly away like a bird—No birth, no pregnancy and no conception!
11 Therefore thus says the Lord, “Behold I am bringing disaster on them which they will not be able to escape; though they will cry to Me, yet I will not listen to them. 12 Then the cities of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem will go and cry to the gods to whom they burn incense, but they surely will not save them in the time of their disaster. 13 For your gods are as many as your cities, O Judah; and as many as the streets of Jerusalem are the altars you have set up to the shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal.14 “Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster. 15 “What right has My beloved in My house .When she has done many vile deeds?
Quote:If the Bible is a mere copy of earlier texts, why is God changed to a non-physical entity?
You should know the answer to that, the children in Sunday School well may not have missed it. Simpliest explaination should suffice by passages like the following:
6 ‘I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.8 ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9a you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God
12 Then the cities of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem will go and cry to the gods to whom they burn incense, but they surely will not save them in the time of their disaster. 13 For your gods are as many as your cities, O Judah; and as many as the streets of Jerusalem are the altars you have set up to the shameful thing, altars to burn incense to Baal.
14 “Therefore do not pray for this people, nor lift up a cry or prayer for them; for I will not listen when they call to Me because of their disaster.
“But where are your gods Which you made for yourself? Let them arise, if they can save you In the time of your trouble; For according to the number of your cities Are your gods, O Judah.
. . .
p.s. -- Twd39 also said, 'For example, why would Epic of Gilgamesh contain dimensions for a boat that wouldn't work or be sea worthy?
If the Sumerian boat were ever constructed, the boat would have be very large and circular, if large-scale models were made, it would fair far better than a long Noah's ship (assuming you could carve enough trees to produce such an object).
Paragraphs please if you expect me to read, much less respond to all that.