Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

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Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

Many blame Satan for the evils of this world even as his power to deceive all of us comes from God.

As the creator of Satan, many think that God deserves the blame as he knew what Satan would be because God knows everything in advance.

What is the greatest evil you can think of and who do you think is to blame for it?

Who is the greatest sinner, Satan or God?

I lean toward God as scriptures name him the Alpha and Omega which to me means the best and the worse. Also, scriptures have God saying not to place any other above him and I would be going against this by placing Satan above him in the category of the most evil. I do not want to break the first commandment.

Do you dare by putting Satan above God?

Regards
DL


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the award clearly goes to

the award clearly goes to darth sidious.


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god is the most evil

Okay, darth sidious is a strong contender.

Why?  Satan says he will lie and hurt you.  God pretends to tell the truth, and never hurt you - but he lies.  I go with the honestly evil rather than the fake goodness.

 

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Satan's avatar

 

Killed 7 people in the book of Job with the encouragement of god. That's Satan's total score for his entire biblical Tour of Duty - 7. Meanwhile, god plans to torture the vast majority of Earth's ever-human population, currently estimated at around 100 billion and rising fast. Copping out of this by protesting that it's not god doing the killing but satan who is secretly blinding the masses to irrational arguments won't wash. Nor will claims god is applying perfectly loving justice when he murders.  

If there is an objective moral standard it must state murder is always wrong, torture is always wrong, that arbitrary and eternal punishments for the dreadful crime of skepticism about truth claims based on threats instead of proofs are always wrong. If there is objective morality, then god loses on a majestic scale. Of course, this wee debate presupposes either of these characters possibly exists. They don't. Instead people are just latently willing to denigrate the out-group right up to the point of incineration. 

Spooky, isn't it. 

 

 

 

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Greatest I am wrote:Does the

Greatest I am wrote:
Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

How many did God kill vs Satan in the Bible?

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cj wrote:Okay, darth sidious

cj wrote:

Okay, darth sidious is a strong contender.

Why?  Satan says he will lie and hurt you.  God pretends to tell the truth, and never hurt you - but he lies.  I go with the honestly evil rather than the fake goodness.

 

I always thought Al Pacino's potrayal of Satan in : "The Devil's Advocate" was one of the best arguments for why worshipping Satan would be the way to go if any of it were actually real.

Whoever wrote that must have been an Atheist.

Pacino, as always, pulled the role off quite well.

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harleysportster wrote:

Pacino, as always, pulled the role off quite well.

ugh, sorry, i gotta disagree with you there.  they should have never given him the oscar for scent of a woman, because after that he spent the rest of the 1990s screaming his way through all of his movies.  i kept expecting the devil to go "hoo-ah!"

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Greatest I am wrote:Does the

Greatest I am wrote:
Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God? Many blame Satan for the evils of this world even as his power to deceive all of us comes from God. As the creator of Satan, many think that God deserves the blame as he knew what Satan would be because God knows everything in advance. What is the greatest evil you can think of and who do you think is to blame for it? Who is the greatest sinner, Satan or God? I lean toward God as scriptures name him the Alpha and Omega which to me means the best and the worse. Also, scriptures have God saying not to place any other above him and I would be going against this by placing Satan above him in the category of the most evil. I do not want to break the first commandment. Do you dare by putting Satan above God? Regards DL

 

Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality.  Satan and his demons work nonstop to make the lives of humans miserable.  OTOH God richly blesses those who are obedient and seek righteous.   Satan is the ultimate jerk.  He works through people's minds when they are not focused on God.  Thoughts and feelings of fear, worry and depression come directly from Satan and his demons.  One of his main goals is to drive humans to the point of despair where suicide becomes a possibility.  I have no doubt that those poor kids who were bullied and commited suicide suffered from Satan's demons implanting thoughts that they are worthless and nobody loves them.  He will tempt you into commiting sin and then condemn you with feelings of guilt and remorse for doing it.  

 Only a carnal mind with a sinful heart would dare claim that God is evil.  

 

And no, hell will not be one grand party with Satan.  Best case scenario is God wipes you out from existance. 


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TWD39 wrote:Greatest I am

TWD39 wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God? Many blame Satan for the evils of this world even as his power to deceive all of us comes from God. As the creator of Satan, many think that God deserves the blame as he knew what Satan would be because God knows everything in advance. What is the greatest evil you can think of and who do you think is to blame for it? Who is the greatest sinner, Satan or God? I lean toward God as scriptures name him the Alpha and Omega which to me means the best and the worse. Also, scriptures have God saying not to place any other above him and I would be going against this by placing Satan above him in the category of the most evil. I do not want to break the first commandment. Do you dare by putting Satan above God? Regards DL

 

Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality.  Satan and his demons work nonstop to make the lives of humans miserable.  OTOH God richly blesses those who are obedient and seek righteous.   Satan is the ultimate jerk.  He works through people's minds when they are not focused on God.  Thoughts and feelings of fear, worry and depression come directly from Satan and his demons.  One of his main goals is to drive humans to the point of despair where suicide becomes a possibility.  I have no doubt that those poor kids who were bullied and commited suicide suffered from Satan's demons implanting thoughts that they are worthless and nobody loves them.  He will tempt you into commiting sin and then condemn you with feelings of guilt and remorse for doing it.  

 Only a carnal mind with a sinful heart would dare claim that God is evil.  

 

And no, hell will not be one grand party with Satan.  Best case scenario is God wipes you out from existance. 

I thought that God loved sinners and hated sin?

You have him hatting the sinners. Hmm.

 

If Satan is doing all you say he is, why has God deffered his sentence to hell and indeed, why is he rewarding him with dominion over the earth?

 

Why make him our king if he is evil?

 

Regards

DL

 


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TWD39 wrote:Anyone who

TWD39 wrote:


Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality. 

Yeah, cos it was satan who drowned billions of sentient animals because humans did some shit he didn't approve of.

 


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TWD39 wrote:  Anyone who

TWD39 wrote:

 

 

Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality.  Satan and his demons work nonstop to make the lives of humans miserable.  OTOH God richly blesses those who are obedient and seek righteous.   Satan is the ultimate jerk.  He works through people's minds when they are not focused on God.  Thoughts and feelings of fear, worry and depression come directly from Satan and his demons.  One of his main goals is to drive humans to the point of despair where suicide becomes a possibility.  I have no doubt that those poor kids who were bullied and commited suicide suffered from Satan's demons implanting thoughts that they are worthless and nobody loves them.  He will tempt you into commiting sin and then condemn you with feelings of guilt and remorse for doing it.  

 Only a carnal mind with a sinful heart would dare claim that God is evil.  

 

 

 

   Harry Potter for Christians.   (  oops, did Satan just tempt me to type that ? )

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TWD39 wrote:Anyone who

TWD39 wrote:

Anyone who thinks God is more evil than Satan is clearly extremely ignorant about Christianity and matters of spirituality.  Satan and his demons work nonstop to make the lives of humans miserable.  OTOH God richly blesses those who are obedient and seek righteous.  

And you believe this because God said so? It is pretty easy to make yourself look like the good guy when you are the only one talking, however, with the bible god fails even that easy task. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

Satan is the ultimate jerk. 

Damn him, I wanted that title. Well there is always next year.

 

TWD39 wrote:

He works through people's minds when they are not focused on God. 

What a jerk, can you believe that anyone would be doing something other than focusing on God? Poor God just wants to sit around and watch people worship him and mean old satan fucks it up. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

Thoughts and feelings of fear, worry and depression come directly from Satan and his demons. 

Huh, I thought god created the brain.

 

TWD39 wrote:

One of his main goals is to drive humans to the point of despair where suicide becomes a possibility.  I have no doubt that those poor kids who were bullied and commited suicide suffered from Satan's demons implanting thoughts that they are worthless and nobody loves them. 

Huh, I thought the kids that were doing the bullying might have something to do with it. Silly me. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

He will tempt you into commiting sin and then condemn you with feelings of guilt and remorse for doing it.  

I don't feel guilty or remorseful when I commit what bible thumpers claim is a sin, quite the contrary, I usually feel quite good about life. But next time I get a text that says "U in town 2nite?" I will know that whatever my phone says it is really from Satan. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

And no, hell will not be one grand party with Satan.  

Of course not, there is not hell, satan or god.  But if there was, all the fun people go to hell so I would rather be tortured with them than sitting around satisfying god's vanity all day. 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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This pretty much

 

TWD39 wrote:

Best case scenario is God wipes you out from existence. 

 

underscores the malleability of christian morality in a single sentence. No wonder christians worship murder-god. Punishment is the idol of conservatives. 

 

 

 

 

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iwbiek wrote:the award

iwbiek wrote:

the award clearly goes to darth sidious.

cj wrote:
Okay, darth sidious is a strong contender.

*fanboy cap goes on*

Sidious really isn't a contender. The Sith and the Jedi effectively want the same thing, they simply have different methods. The Jedi work through peace, while the Sith work through conflict.

Sidious was racist and sexist. He became a dictator, through his design and the Jedi's failure to follow their own code (admittedly a situation orchestrated by Sidious, but which the Jedi allowed to happen through their arrogance and their attachment to power).

But Sidious wasn't the type to massacre or torture people for the hell of it. If he wiped out a population, he generally had reason to. Not spectacularly good reasons, but much better reasons than, say, a wager.

In that light, he simply doesn't qualify. Both god and satan have apparently little problem ruining someone's life and wiping out their family for a bet. Sidious never stooped that low.

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Vastet wrote:But Sidious

Vastet wrote:

But Sidious wasn't the type to massacre or torture people for the hell of it. If he wiped out a population, he generally had reason to. Not spectacularly good reasons, but much better reasons than, say, a wager.

fine, fine, fair enough.  ok, how about grand moff tarkin then?  alderaan was a piece of god-scale evil, done simply because dantooine was "too far away for an effective demonstration."  it's also my understanding he was gunning for the throne.

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oh, and i admit, i've never

oh, and i admit, i've never kept up well with the star wars literary universe.  the last book i read was shadows of the empire, before episode i even came out, so i'd like to ask about sidious's racism and sexism, which as far as i could tell are not evident in the films.

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Beyond Saving wrote:And you

Beyond Saving wrote:

And you believe this because God said so? It is pretty easy to make yourself look like the good guy when you are the only one talking, however, with the bible god fails even that easy task. 

Since you are examining the Bible through the filter of a wicked sinful heart, it is no wonder that you call evil good, and good evil.  My beliefs come from the truth of the Word of God, and my own life experiences.  The demonic realm is very real. 

 

 

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Damn him, I wanted that title. Well there is always next year.

 

Really, and you claim a higher moral standard than God?  I think a society of people showing love and kindness for each other is much better than a society of jerks.

 

 

 

 

What a jerk, can you believe that anyone would be doing something other than focusing on God? Poor God just wants to sit around and watch people worship him and mean old satan fucks it up. 

 

 

God created humans with the desire for fellowship and having a personal relationship with Him.  What's so horrible about that?

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

Huh, I thought god created the brain.

 

With that logic,  you should blame the gun for killing people, not the human being who pulled the trigger.  The brain is just a mechanism that Satan exploits to bring misery to people.

 

 

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Huh, I thought the kids that were doing the bullying might have something to do with it. Silly me. 

 

Satan is working through the kids.  It's sinful fun to make fun of others.  I see atheists do it all the time. 

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

I don't feel guilty or remorseful when I commit what bible thumpers claim is a sin, quite the contrary, I usually feel quite good about life. But next time I get a text that says "U in town 2nite?" I will know that whatever my phone says it is really from Satan. 

 

 

Of course you don't.  Satan already has you tagged, bagged and ready for eternal destruction.  There's no reason for him to actively work to destroy you in this realm since you have such hatred for God, and have harden your heart against Him.

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

Of course not, there is not hell, satan or god.  But if there was, all the fun people go to hell so I would rather be tortured with them than sitting around satisfying god's vanity all day. 

 

1.  You have zero proof to claim as fact that there is no hell or God. 

 

2.  You think it would be more pleasant to be burning alive with "fun people"?  It wouldn't matter, you would all be weeping and gnashing your teeth.  That's like saying you rather go to prison than be in church. 

Beyond Saving wrote:


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Beyond Saving wrote:But next

Beyond Saving wrote:

But next time I get a text that says "U in town 2nite?" I will know that whatever my phone says it is really from Satan. 

damn, i miss getting those texts.  satan never contacts me anymore...

i especially miss when satan used to take the form of a certain stacked basketball player who was all soft skin and hard muscle, with cleavage that fuckin' stayed there once you got that bra off, and an ass i still think i must've hallucinated...sorry, what are we talkin' about???

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iwbiek wrote:oh, and i

iwbiek wrote:

oh, and i admit, i've never kept up well with the star wars literary universe.  the last book i read was shadows of the empire, before episode i even came out, so i'd like to ask about sidious's racism and sexism, which as far as i could tell are not evident in the films.

Yeah, that didn't really reveal itself until after he was in power.

His racism's biggest demonstrations in film were the originals. If you watch them again, you'll notice only humans served in the Empire. No other species was generally allowed. Though in rare circumstances, Sidious would lay aside his racism if he felt a species was valuable enough to him.

His sexism was evident in the same way, though wasn't as prolific. Women were sometimes allowed to serve, but rarely allowed to advance. Only one female in the history of the Empire ever made it to Admiral, and Tarkin promoted her in secret, without informing Sidious.

Speaking of Tarkin, he just didn't get it. He wasn't force sensitive, and he never

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had the slightest chance of

had the slightest chance of taking over. Though he did want to, Sidious knew everything Tarkin did, generally speaking.

Alderaan was also the last real system to be critical of the Empire. Despite Tarkin's attempts to play with Leia, it had always been planned to be dealt with. It's kinda like how Hitler looked at Russia. Alderaan may not have had weapons, but they had a millennia old reputation that was respected around the galaxy. If they had formally attempted to cede from the Empire, then the civil war that led to the Empire in the first place would have started up all over again. Alderaan was pacifist and didn't want that, Sidious was preparing for an invasion and also didn't want that. So he just bided his time until the Death Star was complete.

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Vastet wrote:Though in rare

Vastet wrote:
Though in rare circumstances, Sidious would lay aside his racism if he felt a species was valuable enough to him. His sexism was evident in the same way, though wasn't as prolific. Women were sometimes allowed to serve, but rarely allowed to advance. Only one female in the history of the Empire ever made it to Admiral, and Tarkin promoted her in secret, without informing Sidious.

how the hell did thrawn ever get so high?  (damn, i really need to read the timothy zahn trilogy.  even people who think the majority of star wars books are shite recommend those to me.)

and why did he invest so much in darth maul?  what could he do a human couldn't?

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I said, 'Father change my name.'
The one I'm using now it's covered up
with fear and filth and cowardice and shame."
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Thrawn was a tactical

Thrawn was a tactical prodigy who defeated a fleet of Trade Federation ships sent by Sidious to intercept and destroy a Jedi mission heading out of the galaxy, with ships that were incapable of defeating said fleet. The story of how he joined the Empire is told in "Outbound Flight", by Zahn. The incident is only vaguely referred to in the trilogy. Episode 1 hadn't been released, and Lucas generally forbid any stories occuring before Episode 4 from publishing, so in a vacuum of info Zahn couldn't tell the whole early story for some time.

Maul was a tool, not a true apprentice. He was designed to take the fall should the Jedi suspect the reemergence of the Sith. He was sacrificed to give Sidious sufficient political capitol for election to Chancellor. He was generally disrespected, by any or all apprentices that Sidious took on, as a brutal animal who had his uses, but could never have been a Lord of the Sith.
He was aquired mostly by convenience.

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in his case it was mostly

A similar story for Tyrannus. His whole purpose was to bring Anakin closer to the dark side. Though in his case it was mostly his age that precluded him from being an actual apprentice. He was as old or older than Sidious, and therefore of no value in perpetuating the Sith, beyond driving Anakin to the dark side and distracting the Republic by being the apparent leader of the rebellion.

Edit:

I've read and own almost every novel in the series. Some of them are complete trash. Especially those that came before a switch in publishers that occured a number of years ago.
Other novels are good or great.
But Zahn's novels are epic. Every one of them. The trilogy, the duology, and the stand alones.
The only author to write for Star Wars who can come close to Zahn, in my opinion, is Salvatore.

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TWD39 wrote:Since you are

TWD39 wrote:

Since you are examining the Bible through the filter of a wicked sinful heart, it is no wonder that you call evil good, and good evil.  My beliefs come from the truth of the Word of God, and my own life experiences.  The demonic realm is very real. 

I prefer a moral viewpoint that doesn't consider genocide a good thing. 

 

 

TWD39 wrote:
 

Really, and you claim a higher moral standard than God?  I think a society of people showing love and kindness for each other is much better than a society of jerks.

Higher? No. Better, yes. I think a society of jerks who don't kill each other or kill outsiders just because they are different is a hell of a lot better than a society of loving kind people who slaughter innocents and/or condemn people to be tortured for eternity just because of what they believe.  

 

 

 

TWD39 wrote:
 

God created humans with the desire for fellowship and having a personal relationship with Him.  What's so horrible about that?

 

I have a dog that I desire for companionship, under no circumstances would I torture my dog and send him to hell, even if he bit me. And I certainly wouldn't dump my dog into the wilderness and then punish his descendants for not believing in me.

 

TWD39 wrote:

 The brain is just a mechanism that Satan exploits to bring misery to people.

 

But according to you Satan already has me, and I am not in misery. Sure, there are a few terrible things that have happened in my life, but all things considered I have far less misery than most. So where is this misery Satan is supposed to bring me?

 

 

TWD39 wrote:

Of course you don't.  Satan already has you tagged, bagged and ready for eternal destruction.  There's no reason for him to actively work to destroy you in this realm since you have such hatred for God, and have harden your heart against Him.

 

I don't hate god, I don't believe he exists, for which I am told that I will be tortured for eternity. From what I can tell, Satan doesn't give a shit whether I believe in him or not. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

1.  You have zero proof to claim as fact that there is no hell or God. 

 

All I have is the significant lack of evidence that there is a god and the complete absurdity of the claims. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

2.  You think it would be more pleasant to be burning alive with "fun people"?  It wouldn't matter, you would all be weeping and gnashing your teeth.  That's like saying you rather go to prison than be in church. 

Depends on the church. If it was Catholic holiday mass every day or sitting in prison I would choose prison. If it is watching Pentacostals go completely nutty I think I would rather sit in church all day because Pentacostal mass is some of the best physical comedy since The Three Stooges. 

But yes, I am not such a coward that I could sit in heavenly bliss knowing that people I loved and cared about are burning and suffering for eternity. Knowing my loved ones are suffering while I sit in heaven would be far more torturous than anything else I could think of. Seriously, how can you sleep at night when you believe that the being you worship has condemned and will condemn billions of good people to eternal suffering?  

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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iwbiek wrote:damn, i miss

iwbiek wrote:

damn, i miss getting those texts.  satan never contacts me anymore...

i especially miss when satan used to take the form of a certain stacked basketball player who was all soft skin and hard muscle, with cleavage that fuckin' stayed there once you got that bra off, and an ass i still think i must've hallucinated...sorry, what are we talkin' about???

Sounds like a memory worth the risk of burning in hell for, ah all the good fun xtians miss out on. Oh well, more for me.  

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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Beyond Saving wrote:Sounds

Beyond Saving wrote:

Sounds like a memory worth the risk of burning in hell for, ah all the good fun xtians miss out on. Oh well, more for me.  

lol  the kicker is, we were both christians at the time.  i was already pretty liberal and hedonistic though, so i suffered no guilt over it.  she was a bit more devout than i but pretty cool about the whole thing.  it was basically a booty call for both of us.

it's not hard to lay a christian chick.  seriously, not hard at all, dude, and they can be fuckin' animals.

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The one I'm using now it's covered up
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Beyond Saving wrote:I prefer

Beyond Saving wrote:

I prefer a moral viewpoint that doesn't consider genocide a good thing. 

 

Humans commiting genocide vs God commiting genocide (as a LAST resort which you refuse to acknowledge) are not on equal terms.

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

Higher? No. Better, yes. I think a society of jerks who don't kill each other or kill outsiders just because they are different is a hell of a lot better than a society of loving kind people who slaughter innocents and/or condemn people to be tortured for eternity just because of what they believe.  

If God allowed sinful people to go to heaven, well it wouldn't be heaven.  It would be another form of hell on earth.  So basically it's ok to treat people like crap as long as you don't kill them? 

God does not punish the innocent either. 

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

 

I have a dog that I desire for companionship, under no circumstances would I torture my dog and send him to hell, even if he bit me. And I certainly wouldn't dump my dog into the wilderness and then punish his descendants for not believing in me.

 

 

You certainly wouldn't let the dog reside in your house and fellowship with him if he attacked you and was hostile to your advancements.   

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

[But according to you Satan already has me, and I am not in misery. Sure, there are a few terrible things that have happened in my life, but all things considered I have far less misery than most. So where is this misery Satan is supposed to bring me?

Satan obviously did once work in your mind to deceive you and plant seeds of doubt about the Christian faith.  I also think Satan does work through atheists as agents which explains why your kind works so feriously to attack and try to destroy America's Christian heritage.

 


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Beyond Saving wrote:All I

Beyond Saving wrote:

All I have is the significant lack of evidence that there is a god and the complete absurdity of the claims. 

 

So apparently you only believe in things that you experience with your physical senses.  Since God is a spiritual force who works in the spirit not the flesh,  why would you expect physical evidence?  You know, Christ performed many physical acts of supernatural ability, and the people still refused to believe.  No wonder God doesn't put on a pony show for atheists!  You can't convince the unwilling.  Case in point,  the fact that  atheists casually dismiss ALL stories of miracle healing as fake without even researching the story.  

 

Lack of evidence is not evidence or conclusive proof of your position that God does not exist as FACT.  At least admit that it is your opinion and not a fact.

 

Beyond Saving wrote:

Depends on the church. If it was Catholic holiday mass every day or sitting in prison I would choose prison. If it is watching Pentacostals go completely nutty I think I would rather sit in church all day because Pentacostal mass is some of the best physical comedy since The Three Stooges. 

But yes, I am not such a coward that I could sit in heavenly bliss knowing that people I loved and cared about are burning and suffering for eternity. Knowing my loved ones are suffering while I sit in heaven would be far more torturous than anything else I could think of. Seriously, how can you sleep at night when you believe that the being you worship has condemned and will condemn billions of good people to eternal suffering?  

 

I would glady sit through a boring holiday mass all day than be placed in a hellhole with no freedom with people who hate your guts and invite violence at any turn.  I think most reasonable people who choose the former as well. 


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TWD39 wrote:God does not

TWD39 wrote:

God does not punish the innocent either. 

 

 

 

 

  So when God allegedly drowned every human being on Earth during the flood, ...through some impossible set of circumstances...there were somehow no young girls or boys, toddlers or infants or anyone that was under the so-called "age of accountability" ?  No innocent victims in a world-wide flood ?   Infants aren't innocent ?  What ?

 

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TWD39 wrote:Humans commiting

TWD39 wrote:

Humans commiting genocide vs God commiting genocide (as a LAST resort which you refuse to acknowledge) are not on equal terms.

 

You are right, a human with limited knowledge might actually believe that killing every person in group X is necessary for the survival of themselves or their children. It is conceivable that a human might find themselves in a position where they believe they have no other choice. A god that is omnipotent and all knowing would have an infinite number of options besides committing genocide and by virtue of being god, would know those options, yet chooses genocide anyway. No comparison whatsoever. I can forgive the ignorant German soldier who patrolled death camps. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

If God allowed sinful people to go to heaven, well it wouldn't be heaven.  It would be another form of hell on earth.  

Instead it is a form of hell in heaven? 

 

TWD39 wrote:

God does not punish the innocent either. 

He punishes people solely for not believing in him. At least that is what most xtians tell me. They tell me that even though my grandma was the kindest, gentlest most generous person I ever knew, she is in hell because she thought christianity was a crock. Any heaven that wouldn't let her in is not a heaven at all. Indeed, I have talked to some that believe that even the most heinous criminals can get into heaven if they have a real conversion before they die and their sins are forgiven by Christ. Under that theory, my grandma (who I know for a fact died an atheist) is in hell while murderers, rapists and other scum are in heaven because they asked Jesus for forgiveness before they died. That is sick and twisted.  

 

TWD39 wrote:
 

You certainly wouldn't let the dog reside in your house and fellowship with him if he attacked you and was hostile to your advancements.   

My current dog actually used to be a red zone dog before I got him from the humane society, he is a German Shepard that was abused and left in horrible conditions (kind of like the ones god leaves many humans in), naturally he became highly aggressive. And no, when I first got him I did not let him run free around the house, but neither did I beat him or torture him. I treated him with respect and showed him kindness. I still wouldn't trust him around children or other dogs, but he now approaches me on his own for pets, obeys attentively and I no longer have problems with him around people he knows. He is still a little too aggressive towards strangers for my liking, but living alone in a rural area, few people approach my house unexpectedly. Perhaps rather than leaving people living in squalid conditions and ignoring them until they die, an all powerful god might find people better suited for his house if he took an active roll in making the world a better place. If you throw a dog outside and ignore it for its entire life you can hardly expect it to like you.

I am of the belief that with enough patience, there is no red zone dog that can't be rehabilitated. Apparently god doesn't take the same approach with humans, even though humans are a lot smarter than dogs. Seriously, it wouldn't be that hard for an all powerful god to supply plenty of evidence of his existence beyond a book that is thousands of years old.   

 

TWD39 wrote:

Satan obviously did once work in your mind to deceive you and plant seeds of doubt about the Christian faith. 

He didn't have to work very hard. You see, I was really interested in animals when I was 4, I had hundreds of animal cards from National Geographic that had pictures of the animals and descriptions of them, where they lived, what they ate, their basic habits etc. I was constantly bothering my family to read them to me and they played no small role in me learning to read myself. So when I went with the babysitter to church one Sunday and was sent to the Sunday School they tried telling me this man named Noah built a boat large enough to fit two of every animal species in the world. I guess I was possessed by Satan because I immediately declared that impossible and asked how Noah prevented the animals from eating each other. The reply was something to the effect that god has powers and with him all things are possible blah blah miracle blah blah. I replied as only a kid can, "You are soooooooo stuuupid". At which point my babysitter was called to pick me up because I was too disruptive. To this day that probably remains the best, most concise, most accurate argument against theism I have ever made. That was really my first exposure to religion, and from that point on I have remained a constant atheist. No "seeds of doubt", the whole tree has been there the whole time. I guess National Geographic is Satan.

 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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TWD39 wrote:So apparently

TWD39 wrote:

So apparently you only believe in things that you experience with your physical senses. 

I believe in things that there is evidence and good reason to believe in. Me personally experiencing it is a bonus, although I have experienced things with my physical senses that I know were not real. 

 

TWD39 wrote:

Since God is a spiritual force who works in the spirit not the flesh,  why would you expect physical evidence? 

Because god supposedly created all things physical, so obviously he is capable of providing something material. It is also apparent that it is REALLY REALLY important to god that we believe in him. Put the two together, and the logical solution is to provide a lot of physical evidence.

TWD39 wrote:

You know, Christ performed many physical acts of supernatural ability, and the people still refused to believe.  No wonder God doesn't put on a pony show for atheists!  You can't convince the unwilling.  Case in point,  the fact that  atheists casually dismiss ALL stories of miracle healing as fake without even researching the story. 

On the contrary, atheists often research stories of miracle healing. There are atheists that do it pretty much professionally and every one that has been investigated so far has turned out to be fraudulent. If you have one story with any supporting evidence I would be willing to consider it, but I am at a loss as to why an all powerful god would perform the occasional miracle healing in some small corner of the world. Why not do something large scale, like say appear in the sky, declare that everyone who currently has cancer will be healed and healing everyone with cancer overnight. That would be some pretty damn serious evidence. Instead, god only appears to at most a handful of people who already believe in him, and has them come tell everyone that he exists. It would be like me giving a penny to a homeless guy as evidence of my generosity.  

 

TWD39 wrote:

Lack of evidence is not evidence or conclusive proof of your position that God does not exist as FACT.  At least admit that it is your opinion and not a fact.

lol, why? You have zero evidence, so I have no reason to believe. I will admit that if I was presented with compelling evidence I might change my position.  Even my beliefs in what I consider rock solid facts, for example, if I jump in the air I will come back to the ground because of gravity, are open to changing if suddenly I jump into the air and gravity does not bring me down. So yeah, if evidence presents itself I might believe in a god. I have never said otherwise.  

 

TWD39 wrote:
 

I would glady sit through a boring holiday mass all day than be placed in a hellhole with no freedom with people who hate your guts and invite violence at any turn.  I think most reasonable people who choose the former as well. 

Hellhole, with no freedom and people who hate my guts..... sounds like Catholic Mass with my old in-laws to me.  

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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TWD39 wrote:

Since you are examining the Bible through the filter of a wicked sinful heart, it is no wonder that you call evil good, and good evil.  My beliefs come from the truth of the Word of God, and my own life experiences.  The demonic realm is very real. 

 

just exploded. You have life experiences of the demonic realm? Objective proof of the nature of good and evil? A coherent definition of sin? You know your personal interpretation of the ambiguity and metaphor of the bible is 'truth'. If you have any rational arguments - arguments that are not based on naked assertions, ad hominem fallacies and thinly veiled appeals to force - serve them up.  

 

TWD39 wrote:

Satan obviously did once work in your mind to deceive you and plant seeds of doubt about the Christian faith.  I also think Satan does work through atheists as agents which explains why your kind works so feriously to attack and try to destroy America's Christian heritage.

 

 

Poor TWDry needs a hug...

 

TWD39 wrote:

So apparently you only believe in things that you experience with your physical senses.  Since God is a spiritual force who works in the spirit not the flesh,  why would you expect physical evidence?  You know, Christ performed many physical acts of supernatural ability, and the people still refused to believe.  No wonder God doesn't put on a pony show for atheists!  You can't convince the unwilling.  

 

 

Stop trying to suggest the composite systems of sense and thought are somehow separated by arbitrary firewalls. Empiricism and rationalism as expressed in the human brain are intimately interconnected. There are no magical places where senses, thoughts and feelings take place independently of the vile physical realm, you Pythagorean. The human neural workspace combines all these things, all of the time. 

I agree with you on one thing, you can't convince the unwilling - people who are unwilling to face reality without the protection of their cosmic daddy. 

 

 

 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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You are the master

 

TWD39 wrote:

Humans commiting genocide vs God commiting genocide (as a LAST resort which you refuse to acknowledge) are not on equal terms.

 

of moral inconsistency. The fact you can even make a statement like this shows you have serious empathy deficits. Have you ever tried to feel as another person might feel? Or is always and ever about you and your greed for eternal life. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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Here's a nice shiny

 

TWD39 wrote:

Lack of evidence is not evidence or conclusive proof of your position that God does not exist as FACT.  At least admit that it is your opinion and not a fact.

 

appeal to ignorance, with twin chrome ashtrays and double overhead foxtails. Look at the duco on that. You don't often see one in such good condition. 

It's a fact that at this time, we have no proof of the supernatural realm. As the claimant you carry the burden of proof and until you supply supporting data, your god hypothesis will not drive. 

"Experiments are the only means of knowledge at our disposal. The rest is poetry, imagination." Max Planck


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It's always awesome when a theist proves his or her immorality.

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Satan is merely

Sapient wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
Does the award for the greatest evil go to Satan or God?

How many did God kill vs Satan in the Bible?

One side of or aspect of Yahweh. Yahweh does not mean God, it means person or persons including one's own person.  However, it's people that did the killing, so then Satan is part of ones own character. There's different applications to understand. Devil is mere evil perpetrated by people. Satan is Deception to bring about an evil as "deceiver". In Hebrew a person is comprised of good and evil and the duality is considered to be Satan/Deceiver on one hand and human on the other. This is how all people are made. The understanding of The Hebrew mind needs to be understood. There is no such word as "God" in the Hebrew language. Satan, Yahweh, Devil are all references to the conditions of persons. The Hebrew mind has no relatives in Europe. The two are not related. The Hebrew religion is of the interior not the exterior. Yahweh signifies ones own person or the personage of all combined. If one changes Yahweh to a Euro interpretation or concept then God means "people", as Yahweh means person or people. "I" can mean singular or multiple. "I" can also mean, one speaking from the Hebrew concept of being, such as. "I" speak from Yahweh. Hebrew prophets spoke from the "I" concept of Yahweh. Yahweh is one's own person in Hebrew.

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Old Seer wrote:One side of

Old Seer wrote:

One side of or aspect of Yahweh. Yahweh does not mean God, it means person or persons including one's own person.  However, it's people that did the killing, so then Satan is part of ones own character. There's different applications to understand. Devil is mere evil perpetrated by people. Satan is Deception to bring about an evil as "deceiver". In Hebrew a person is comprised of good and evil and the duality is considered to be Satan/Deceiver on one hand and human on the other. This is how all people are made. The understanding of The Hebrew mind needs to be understood. There is no such word as "God" in the Hebrew language. Satan, Yahweh, Devil are all references to the conditions of persons. The Hebrew mind has no relatives in Europe. The two are not related. The Hebrew religion is of the interior not the exterior. Yahweh signifies ones own person or the personage of all combined. If one changes Yahweh to a Euro interpretation or concept then God means "people", as Yahweh means person or people. "I" can mean singular or multiple. "I" can also mean, one speaking from the Hebrew concept of being, such as. "I" speak from Yahweh. Hebrew prophets spoke from the "I" concept of Yahweh. Yahweh is one's own person in Hebrew.

So, for example, people caused the great flood that killed virtually the entire human population? Or do you believe that particular story is false/exaggerated/misinterpreted? 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

One side of or aspect of Yahweh. Yahweh does not mean God, it means person or persons including one's own person.  However, it's people that did the killing, so then Satan is part of ones own character. There's different applications to understand. Devil is mere evil perpetrated by people. Satan is Deception to bring about an evil as "deceiver". In Hebrew a person is comprised of good and evil and the duality is considered to be Satan/Deceiver on one hand and human on the other. This is how all people are made. The understanding of The Hebrew mind needs to be understood. There is no such word as "God" in the Hebrew language. Satan, Yahweh, Devil are all references to the conditions of persons. The Hebrew mind has no relatives in Europe. The two are not related. The Hebrew religion is of the interior not the exterior. Yahweh signifies ones own person or the personage of all combined. If one changes Yahweh to a Euro interpretation or concept then God means "people", as Yahweh means person or people. "I" can mean singular or multiple. "I" can also mean, one speaking from the Hebrew concept of being, such as. "I" speak from Yahweh. Hebrew prophets spoke from the "I" concept of Yahweh. Yahweh is one's own person in Hebrew.

So, for example, people caused the great flood that killed virtually the entire human population? Or do you believe that particular story is false/exaggerated/misinterpreted? 

It's a situation similar to Armageddon. One could refer to it as a mini Armageddon. Armageddon is when floks return to evil (after becoming good for a while) and kill each other at the end times. In previous posts i pointed to-Creation is the key. Waters in Hebrew creation means "mentality" or mind, also thoughts. What happened at the time of Noah the people of that region became so evil they lost social bonds and killed each other. Flood in this case is not H2/0. They flooded over with hate and anger and went at each other. The same happens at Armageddon. At the time of Noah it was that region or area not world wide, just of that region. Noah and people of that time had no knowledge of the planet. You would be correct. People caused the great flood. The Hebrew understanding of "god" (so to speak) was people, not an entity separate of themselves. The Hebrews of today did not hold to their ancient religion. They have become as all others in the world today.  They've lost the original understanding and concept. JC points to the end time Armageddon as such---as in the days of Noah they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage (going about life as usual) then the flood came and took them all away.

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You're officially the first theist I've ever seen reclassify the terminology of the 'great flood'.

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Old Seer wrote:It's a

Old Seer wrote:

It's a situation similar to Armageddon. One could refer to it as a mini Armageddon. Armageddon is when floks return to evil (after becoming good for a while) and kill each other at the end times. In previous posts i pointed to-Creation is the key. Waters in Hebrew creation means "mentality" or mind, also thoughts. What happened at the time of Noah the people of that region became so evil they lost social bonds and killed each other. Flood in this case is not H2/0. They flooded over with hate and anger and went at each other. The same happens at Armageddon. At the time of Noah it was that region or area not world wide, just of that region. Noah and people of that time had no knowledge of the planet. You would be correct. People caused the great flood. The Hebrew understanding of "god" (so to speak) was people, not an entity separate of themselves. The Hebrews of today did not hold to their ancient religion. They have become as all others in the world today.  They've lost the original understanding and concept. JC points to the end time Armageddon as such---as in the days of Noah they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage (going about life as usual) then the flood came and took them all away.

So crazy blood lusting people were running around and slaughtered everyone except Noah and family who presumably were somewhere safe. Why bother with the whole story of the animals? Were the humans slaughtering all the animals too? 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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Nope, nope, nope.

Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

It's a situation similar to Armageddon. One could refer to it as a mini Armageddon. Armageddon is when floks return to evil (after becoming good for a while) and kill each other at the end times. In previous posts i pointed to-Creation is the key. Waters in Hebrew creation means "mentality" or mind, also thoughts. What happened at the time of Noah the people of that region became so evil they lost social bonds and killed each other. Flood in this case is not H2/0. They flooded over with hate and anger and went at each other. The same happens at Armageddon. At the time of Noah it was that region or area not world wide, just of that region. Noah and people of that time had no knowledge of the planet. You would be correct. People caused the great flood. The Hebrew understanding of "god" (so to speak) was people, not an entity separate of themselves. The Hebrews of today did not hold to their ancient religion. They have become as all others in the world today.  They've lost the original understanding and concept. JC points to the end time Armageddon as such---as in the days of Noah they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage (going about life as usual) then the flood came and took them all away.

So crazy blood lusting people were running around and slaughtered everyone except Noah and family who presumably were somewhere safe. Why bother with the whole story of the animals? Were the humans slaughtering all the animals too? 

But basically that's correct but with this understanding attached.

There were no animals involved here---unless farm animals or oxen---property of the people involved.The Ark is not a boat, or any flotation device. It's a fortress (ark means "container" not boat). And, presumably fabricated on Mt. Ararat. Notice that the beasts were taken into the ark 2 X 2. But you'll also notice ( I think I have this right) there were also taken into the Ark 7 X 7s. That puts us back to creation. The Hebrew life (these people are not Hebrew at this point understand, Hebrews are descendants of Noah) is interpreted from creation which makes up their alphabet and number system. Everything in Hebrew life is drawn from the beginning--creation, even their religion. Notice also that the 7 X 7 is never explained. That is because it doesn't fit the Euro mind, and sexual mates do. Here is a prime eggzample of Euro trash being injected into the works. You'll notice at creation-the beasts-these are not animals, they are spiritual connotations to explain facets of --person, as Yahweh denotes person/people. What the beasts of Noah,s ark denote is-----records and history keeping--documentation, things of that sort. Of course supplies also. For all we know it could have also included creation too. Notice the waters, above the highest mountains. That means even the greatest of them---everyone got killed except a few. You'll also find in the book---the valleys will be brought up and the mountains will be brought down. That means---the lower of the people will be brought to a higher level-and the greatest will be brought down-creating an evening off. That happens at the end time as--according to an apostle "all are created equal". That's what is returned to after the end time. . Also be understanding---Christianity is a middle eastern religion not western. And believe it or not, it is the original Hebrew religion.

 

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Old Seer wrote:But basically

Old Seer wrote:

But basically that's correct but with this understanding attached.

There were no animals involved here---unless farm animals or oxen---property of the people involved.The Ark is not a boat, or any flotation device. It's a fortress (ark means "container" not boat). And, presumably fabricated on Mt. Ararat. Notice that the beasts were taken into the ark 2 X 2. But you'll also notice ( I think I have this right) there were also taken into the Ark 7 X 7s. That puts us back to creation. The Hebrew life (these people are not Hebrew at this point understand, Hebrews are descendants of Noah) is interpreted from creation which makes up their alphabet and number system. Everything in Hebrew life is drawn from the beginning--creation, even their religion. Notice also that the 7 X 7 is never explained. That is because it doesn't fit the Euro mind, and sexual mates do. Here is a prime eggzample of Euro trash being injected into the works. You'll notice at creation-the beasts-these are not animals, they are spiritual connotations to explain facets of --person, as Yahweh denotes person/people. What the beasts of Noah,s ark denote is-----records and history keeping--documentation, things of that sort. Of course supplies also. For all we know it could have also included creation too. Notice the waters, above the highest mountains. That means even the greatest of them---everyone got killed except a few. You'll also find in the book---the valleys will be brought up and the mountains will be brought down. That means---the lower of the people will be brought to a higher level-and the greatest will be brought down-creating an evening off. That happens at the end time as--according to an apostle "all are created equal". That's what is returned to after the end time. . Also be understanding---Christianity is a middle eastern religion not western. And believe it or not, it is the original Hebrew religion.

 

The original religion of the region - not Hebrew until way later than Noah's supposed life - was very typical father sun, mother earth/moon, children stars. 

Your stuff sounds way too much like some made up stuff - you know, similar to the Masons.  Their stuff is all made up, too.

 

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cj wrote:Your stuff sounds

cj wrote:

Your stuff sounds way too much like some made up stuff - you know, similar to the Masons.  Their stuff is all made up, too.

 

Way off of the topic here, but what exactly are the Masons all about ? Does anyone know ?

It is hard to find any information on the net without it involving some sort of conspiracy theory horseshit and secret meetings that are behind the government, New World Order and all that nonsense.

My guess is that it is an organization of rich dudes that like shrouding themselves in secrecy because their is no secret.

I know their is an organization that is huge in my church (or used to be, they, like all things Catholic are on the decline) called the Knights of Columbus.

Their " SECRET" rituals proved to be nothing more than a bunch of prayers and silly oaths to god and that was about it. They were mainly good for fundraisers and outdoor picnics (only good thing about being a Catholic was that there were always copious amounts of alcohol involved).

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Old Seer wrote:But basically

Old Seer wrote:

But basically that's correct but with this understanding attached.

There were no animals involved here---unless farm animals or oxen---property of the people involved.The Ark is not a boat, or any flotation device. It's a fortress (ark means "container" not boat). And, presumably fabricated on Mt. Ararat. Notice that the beasts were taken into the ark 2 X 2. But you'll also notice ( I think I have this right) there were also taken into the Ark 7 X 7s. That puts us back to creation. The Hebrew life (these people are not Hebrew at this point understand, Hebrews are descendants of Noah) is interpreted from creation which makes up their alphabet and number system. Everything in Hebrew life is drawn from the beginning--creation, even their religion. Notice also that the 7 X 7 is never explained. That is because it doesn't fit the Euro mind, and sexual mates do. Here is a prime eggzample of Euro trash being injected into the works. You'll notice at creation-the beasts-these are not animals, they are spiritual connotations to explain facets of --person, as Yahweh denotes person/people. What the beasts of Noah,s ark denote is-----records and history keeping--documentation, things of that sort. Of course supplies also. For all we know it could have also included creation too. Notice the waters, above the highest mountains. That means even the greatest of them---everyone got killed except a few. You'll also find in the book---the valleys will be brought up and the mountains will be brought down. That means---the lower of the people will be brought to a higher level-and the greatest will be brought down-creating an evening off. That happens at the end time as--according to an apostle "all are created equal". That's what is returned to after the end time. . Also be understanding---Christianity is a middle eastern religion not western. And believe it or not, it is the original Hebrew religion.

Ok, so why should anyone give any credibility to the bibles predictions of the future, such as the coming armageddon?  

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


cj
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harleysportster wrote:cj

harleysportster wrote:

cj wrote:

Your stuff sounds way too much like some made up stuff - you know, similar to the Masons.  Their stuff is all made up, too.

Way off of the topic here, but what exactly are the Masons all about ? Does anyone know ?

It is hard to find any information on the net without it involving some sort of conspiracy theory horseshit and secret meetings that are behind the government, New World Order and all that nonsense.

My guess is that it is an organization of rich dudes that like shrouding themselves in secrecy because their is no secret.

I know their is an organization that is huge in my church (or used to be, they, like all things Catholic are on the decline) called the Knights of Columbus.

Their " SECRET" rituals proved to be nothing more than a bunch of prayers and silly oaths to god and that was about it. They were mainly good for fundraisers and outdoor picnics (only good thing about being a Catholic was that there were always copious amounts of alcohol involved).

 

I read a book by an historian - I'll have to go look up the title and author, but if you wish.  She was discussing the importance of evidence when one theorized about historical facts and figures.  One of the things she mentioned in the book was how the Masons came to be.

They had found Egypt and all the hieroglyphics, but had not yet found the Rosetta Stone.  So no one knew exactly what the writings said.  So this kook with too much time on his hands, started guessing what the hieroglyphics meant.  Yes, guessed.  And also guessed all these strange rituals and such based on a combination of his guessed language and the bas relief and murals and frescoes recently discovered in Egypt.  Guessed.  Made up.

Of course, by the time the Rosetta Stone was discovered, the group was not going to let a little thing like facts get in the way of having fun.

Bullpucky.  Just like all the rest of them.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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Because

Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

But basically that's correct but with this understanding attached.

There were no animals involved here---unless farm animals or oxen---property of the people involved.The Ark is not a boat, or any flotation device. It's a fortress (ark means "container" not boat). And, presumably fabricated on Mt. Ararat. Notice that the beasts were taken into the ark 2 X 2. But you'll also notice ( I think I have this right) there were also taken into the Ark 7 X 7s. That puts us back to creation. The Hebrew life (these people are not Hebrew at this point understand, Hebrews are descendants of Noah) is interpreted from creation which makes up their alphabet and number system. Everything in Hebrew life is drawn from the beginning--creation, even their religion. Notice also that the 7 X 7 is never explained. That is because it doesn't fit the Euro mind, and sexual mates do. Here is a prime eggzample of Euro trash being injected into the works. You'll notice at creation-the beasts-these are not animals, they are spiritual connotations to explain facets of --person, as Yahweh denotes person/people. What the beasts of Noah,s ark denote is-----records and history keeping--documentation, things of that sort. Of course supplies also. For all we know it could have also included creation too. Notice the waters, above the highest mountains. That means even the greatest of them---everyone got killed except a few. You'll also find in the book---the valleys will be brought up and the mountains will be brought down. That means---the lower of the people will be brought to a higher level-and the greatest will be brought down-creating an evening off. That happens at the end time as--according to an apostle "all are created equal". That's what is returned to after the end time. . Also be understanding---Christianity is a middle eastern religion not western. And believe it or not, it is the original Hebrew religion.

Ok, so why should anyone give any credibility to the bibles predictions of the future, such as the coming Armageddon?  

credibility should be looked into. Prophesies are easy when one understands how it's done. Any particular mental direction brings about a corresponding result. That's what Psycho dudes do---but on a personal scale. When they know what course the mind is on an end result can be determined---if one stays on that course. Nothing to it. IE--Noah understood the manner of mind and thinking of the people. He warned them for many years. And---what happened. The ancient people knew more then what they're given credit for. Psychology is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. When it come to Armageddon one chooses to participate or avoid it. But that's a ways off yet. Our Psycho Smurfs now work on a global analyzation status. They have analysis on every politico and main religious leader world wide that they know of. They've got plenty of time being retired. and this is what your psycho dudes should be doing. But if they,re caught the psycho associations will have their licenses pulled, and govern dudes would demand it---so much for freedom of speech. Our guys are free and retired and can analyze any dang body the want. It's the reason we are here now. What the book shows clearly is what happens when people (on the over all, and especially the elites) think the way they do. This deal is headed for the door and and disaster.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:credibility

Old Seer wrote:

credibility should be looked into. Prophesies are easy when one understands how it's done. Any particular mental direction brings about a corresponding result. That's what Psycho dudes do---but on a personal scale. When they know what course the mind is on an end result can be determined---if one stays on that course. Nothing to it. IE--Noah understood the manner of mind and thinking of the people. He warned them for many years. And---what happened. The ancient people knew more then what they're given credit for. Psychology is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. When it come to Armageddon one chooses to participate or avoid it. But that's a ways off yet. Our Psycho Smurfs now work on a global analyzation status. They have analysis on every politico and main religious leader world wide that they know of. They've got plenty of time being retired. and this is what your psycho dudes should be doing. But if they,re caught the psycho associations will have their licenses pulled, and govern dudes would demand it---so much for freedom of speech. Our guys are free and retired and can analyze any dang body the want. It's the reason we are here now. What the book shows clearly is what happens when people (on the over all, and especially the elites) think the way they do. This deal is headed for the door and and disaster.

Maybe I'm a little thick but my question was why I should pay attention to the bible. The credibility of you psycho guys is another issue entirely, they may or may not be credible regardless of what the bible says, and armageddon might happen or not happen regardless of what either one says. We can discuss what armageddon types of events might happen and whether or not society or me as an individual can survive them, but why should the bible be considered even a relevant part of that discussion, let alone a source?

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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sure

Beyond Saving wrote:

Old Seer wrote:

credibility should be looked into. Prophesies are easy when one understands how it's done. Any particular mental direction brings about a corresponding result. That's what Psycho dudes do---but on a personal scale. When they know what course the mind is on an end result can be determined---if one stays on that course. Nothing to it. IE--Noah understood the manner of mind and thinking of the people. He warned them for many years. And---what happened. The ancient people knew more then what they're given credit for. Psychology is nothing new. It's been around for thousands of years. When it come to Armageddon one chooses to participate or avoid it. But that's a ways off yet. Our Psycho Smurfs now work on a global analyzation status. They have analysis on every politico and main religious leader world wide that they know of. They've got plenty of time being retired. and this is what your psycho dudes should be doing. But if they,re caught the psycho associations will have their licenses pulled, and govern dudes would demand it---so much for freedom of speech. Our guys are free and retired and can analyze any dang body the want. It's the reason we are here now. What the book shows clearly is what happens when people (on the over all, and especially the elites) think the way they do. This deal is headed for the door and and disaster.

Maybe I'm a little thick but my question was why I should pay attention to the bible. The credibility of you psycho guys is another issue entirely, they may or may not be credible regardless of what the bible says, and armageddon might happen or not happen regardless of what either one says. We can discuss what armageddon types of events might happen and whether or not society or me as an individual can survive them, but why should the bible be considered even a relevant part of that discussion, let alone a source?

This is hard to see, but we were surprised to learn also. What we have here with this bible deal is a people who had a way and understanding of how to live in peace with others. After a bit it becomes very simple to understand. So how did they do it and why is it important.? What they understood and found can be used by any society. But, the book deals with the book first and it's inhabitants and not necessarily everyone else on the planet. However, what goes for them goes for all others. There is nothing different about them except their beliefs. If their beliefs worked for them then those beliefs work for everyone else.

 here's what it gets down to. They see biblical creation as a mental/spiritual thing not a material. What they learned or became enlightened to (knowledgeable) as to what the/a person is all about. What that means is they understood themselves. Today the people think they understand themselves but they really don't. (our psycho smurfs know that and learned it from understanding these people). When they analize creation and what it means and then see what the affects produce they see Adam as a different person then what the world understands. It turns out that Adam is not an individual but a people we call then Adamites. Hebrews are their descendents. I have to bring in the term "religion for the sake of understanding. It's their religion that is unique. It's a religion based of the self, not a spiritual entity as the Europeans think. The spiritual entity that they see is-themselves. That means they understand how a person exists. To bring the Euro idea into it (which really doesn't apply) thei God is the entity that they are themselves. Their god is interior not exterior. All other religion are of the exterior. Once you understand yourself you then can dictate what you wish to be-and there are only two directions one "can be". That is either human or animal which are two different personalities every one has. If you elect the human only then you are different then those who are animal minded. But all have the animal option. If you elect human but with an animal trait you have that personality. If you remove the animal you are a different personality. different combination create different personalities.

 So what good is that?? Well. if the world relies on the animal person then that has it's result--as we can see. Change to human and---you have a different world. This is what makes an Adamite, knowing the difference of each. Societies today and in the past rely on the animal side to exist, which is causing all the troubles. Finding  (which we did) the precepts of the original Hebrews one can deduce the answer to the world problems. Refrain from using the animal entity and you have a different society. As it is---the world reckons the "human animal" concept but that is a contradiction and will not do to produce a peaceful world. . Even though one refrains from the animal mind one still retains it, but merely doesn't use it in relations with others. This is what the main objective of the book is about. The Adamites reasoned the difference from human and animal, the rest of the world hasn't. Hence--great problems. There is human society and there is animal society and each produces it's result. It doesn't seem like much but that's basically it. The psycho Smurfs can see this very clearly.

The only possible thing the world needs saving from are those running it.


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Old Seer wrote:This is hard

Old Seer wrote:

This is hard to see, but we were surprised to learn also. What we have here with this bible deal is a people who had a way and understanding of how to live in peace with others. After a bit it becomes very simple to understand. So how did they do it and why is it important.? What they understood and found can be used by any society. But, the book deals with the book first and it's inhabitants and not necessarily everyone else on the planet. However, what goes for them goes for all others. There is nothing different about them except their beliefs. If their beliefs worked for them then those beliefs work for everyone else.

?!?!?!? Have you read the bible? Are you familiar with the history of the area at all? They hardly lived at peace with others either based on biblical accounts or based on other historical records. The entire region has been a hotbed of war and has been conquered by several of the major empires our world has seen. If your goal is to mimic ancient cultures that lived at peace with one another you should probably study cultures like the Moriori who lived on a small island with extremely limited resources but managed to avoid warfare or significant violence- at least until they were invaded by another island. (the downside of being a pacifist is you always lose wars if the other side doesn't mind annihilating you). I don't see why you would focus on the Hebrew religion or lend any more credibility to it than you would to any other religion, whatever peace it was able to establish was clearly not long lived. 

 

It was morality that burned the books of the ancient sages, and morality that halted the free inquiry of the Golden Age and substituted for it the credulous imbecility of the Age of Faith. It was a fixed moral code and a fixed theology which robbed the human race of a thousand years by wasting them upon alchemy, heretic-burning, witchcraft and sacerdotalism.-H.L. Mencken


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BeyondSaving wrote: My

BeyondSaving wrote:

My current dog actually used to be a red zone dog before I got him from the humane society, he is a German Shepard that was abused and left in horrible conditions (kind of like the ones god leaves many humans in), naturally he became highly aggressive. And no, when I first got him I did not let him run free around the house, but neither did I beat him or torture him. I treated him with respect and showed him kindness. I still wouldn't trust him around children or other dogs, but he now approaches me on his own for pets, obeys attentively and I no longer have problems with him around people he knows. He is still a little too aggressive towards strangers for my attentively and I no longer have problems with him around people he knows. He is still a little too aggressive towards strangers for my liking, but living alone in a rural area, few people approach my house unexpectedly. Perhaps rather than leaving people living in squalid conditions and ignoring them until they die, an all powerful god might find people better suited for his house if he took an active roll in making the world a better place. If you throw a dog outside and ignore it for its entire life you can hardly expect it to like you. I am of the belief that with enough patience, there is no red zone dog that can't be rehabilitated. Apparently god doesn't take the same approach with humans, even though humans are a lot smarter than dogs. Seriously, it wouldn't be that hard for an all powerful god to supply plenty of evidence of his existence beyond a book that is thousands of years old.

What a perfect example. I agree about abused dogs, particularly being a fan of Ceasar Milan, the dog whisperer. My wife loves animals and she only gets older abused on death row dogs. Kind and being present attention pays off in spades. I have seen our abused dogs turned around quickly.


An absentee god who says he loves us but allows the horrors that goes on in this world, natural disasters, horrid disease, human abuses, is all I need to convince me there is no god. The problem of pain, theodicy, goes unanswered every moment of every day. TWD must deliberately blind himself to this so he can believe his fairy tale and continue to divide humanity needlessly.

Religion Kills !!!

Numbers 31:17-18 - Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

http://jesus-needs-money.blogspot.com/


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LMAO

your just another theistard troll trying to come in here with your illogical fallacies trying to pwn the "hellbound non believers" and guess what you got PWNED..  go through some of the other topic forums and see the theists that try and troll are PWNED.... good luck twd39

Chris