Granny in SC stops home invaders with pistol.

Brian37
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Granny in SC stops home invaders with pistol.

It is all over the news so you can google it.

First off this is not either or for me. The outcome was that she was not hurt, so good for her. It seems two intruders were looking to rob her house and got to her bedroom door to open it only to be faced with a gun.

NOW here is where the NRA jackasses would go "see see see, guns do work"

Yea, SOMETIMES. However, be it a home invasion, or street gang violence, once you try to introduce a gun into a situation the risk of injury goes up dramatically. While it did work for this old lady, that is still the exception and not the rule. She was lucky that those guys were cowards. Two of them very easily could have rushed her, and knocked her down.

She got lucky in the fact that she audibly had time to prepare and position herself so that the shock of seeing the gun by the perps was enough. But that is NOT always the case. And someone hyped up on drugs or simply a Barny bad ass might have responded to her brandishing that gun with violence.

The fact that she did that does NOT make me want to go out and buy a gun. I simply think she got lucky.

And lucky for society her call to 911 go those two assholes arrested after they fled the house.

 

"We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and nonbelievers."Obama
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"Having a culture of only

"Having a culture of only 10% of Americans owning guns (which equals 30 million gun owners) does not equal there being no guns in America."

Strawman.

"You seem to think that if fewer people in america have legal ownership of guns that there would be fewer criminals using guns.   I don't understand how you are confusing law abiding citizens with criminals."

I don't understand how guns are magically going to appear in people's hands just because they are criminals, and noone in this thread has given a single unrefuted argument to show it.

"You are putting forth an assertation that having the legal right to own guns increases the illegal use of the same. "

Strawman.

I guess you don't have a study. And the rest of your post is just bullshit.

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  Man, I had a great time

  Man, I had a great time shooting today.  Plus after my range time I walked over to the gun shop and started talking to one of their salesmen who's an ex-marine and a deputy sheriff who serves arrest warrants. Super knowledgeable dude.  I learned a ton of good info regarding some potential gun purchases ( ie, Sig R556 assault rifle in 5.56mmx45mm, a Springfield M1A SOCOM in 7.62mmx51mm, a Colt 2011 Rail Gun in 45 caliber, etc. )

I'm going to have to buy a third gun safe just keep them in. Awesome.

"Most people are ass holes." Jesus of Nazareth


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Vastet wrote:Strawman.Vastet

Vastet wrote:

Strawman.

Vastet wrote:
The guns are already here is not a sound argument. Back in 1940 approximately half of Americans were smokers. Today the number is closer to 10%.

Nope.

Vastet wrote:
I don't understand how guns are magically going to appear in people's hands just because they are criminals, and noone in this thread has given a single unrefuted argument to show it.

There are over 278 million guns currently in existence in America NOW.  They aren't going to "magically" disappear.   If you can not understand how criminals are going to stumble themselves upon a gun "here or there" then I don't think I should keep speaking to you.   It's too irritating talking to retards.   So please provide your argument that in some altered reality, that has nothing to do with our current reality, is somehow "magically" going to happen in this invented world that you speak of.

Reality.   It's a bitch.   But we still have to deal with it.

This is a HUGE point of departure in our views that people have in any of these debates, even on national scales.   Beyond and I are basing our comments on reality, and how we (humans) should deal with that reality.   You and Brian37 prance around and state how it should be in make-believe land.  Whee. 

Vastet wrote:
Strawman. I guess you don't have a study. And the rest of your post is just bullshit.

Weak.   I guess god exists because you don't have a study saying that he doesn't exist.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


Beyond Saving
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Threads dead, time for some gun porn

 You can't go wrong with any of the Colt 1911 models, beautiful and high quality.

 

 

And "automatic" using Vastet's caveman definition.

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote: You

Beyond Saving wrote:

 You can't go wrong with any of the Colt 1911 models, beautiful and high quality.

 

 

And "automatic" using Vastet's caveman definition.

  Beyond, did you ever come across any of the Colt manufactured MEUSOC 45's when you were still active duty Marines ?  You were Force Recon if I remember so, being an elite unit, they weren't required to stay with the standard issue Beretta M9, is that correct ?

 I'm seriously considering buying the Colt MEUSOC / Rail gun 45.

 

( ps, the Marine / Sheriff sales person suggested that I have their gun smith replace all of the crappy MIM parts on my Kimber TLE II to get it back up to it's formerly reliable condition. )

"Most people are ass holes." Jesus of Nazareth


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ProzacDeathWish wrote: 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  Beyond, did you ever come across any of the Colt manufactured MEUSOC 45's when you were still active duty Marines ?  You were Force Recon if I remember so, being an elite unit, they weren't required to stay with the standard issue Beretta M9, is that correct ?

 I'm seriously considering buying the Colt MEUSOC / Rail gun 45.

 

( ps, the Marine / Sheriff sales person suggested that I have their gun smith replace all of the crappy MIM parts on my Kimber TLE II to get it back up to it's formerly reliable condition. )

I used the M-45 MEU(SOC) a little bit in training and used it for qualification once, so maybe a couple hundred rounds, can't exactly claim to be an expert with the weapon. We only had about 50 of them in the armory and the ones we had were so modified by PWS that the only Colt part left was the frame which more often than not was ancient. Although I understand that to reduce the burden on PWS the Corps is purchasing an off the shelf version of the 1070RG made by Colt that should be making their way down the food chain over the next couple of years. I'm not entirely sure how much Colt modified it from the civilian version of the 1070RG, my impression from what I have read is that the changes are mostly cosmetic, I think the guts are virtually identical but don't quote me on that. It passed muster with the guys at MARSOC so that is enough of a recommendation to me. 

I knew a guy who participated in a lot of pistol competitions and he always used the M9 because he swore it was more accurate, but I don't know anyone going into a combat situation that wouldn't choose the M-45 because of its reliability in adverse conditions and it can hold up under extraordinary use. Besides, with a .45 one hole in the target will do the trick, even if it isn't the most accurate shot.  

At that time my sole life goal was to become a sniper so whenever I had range time I wanted to use the M-40A1 or the M-82A3. I considered spending range time with pistols to be a waste, I spent just enough time to make sure I qualified comfortably. In retrospect, probably a stupid attitude because of you miss a target with the rifle you will probably get another shot. As a sniper, if you are using your secondary weapon, your life is in serious jeopardy and now is not the time to be less than perfectly accurate. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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"Nope." Yep. "There are

"Nope."

Yep.

"There are over 278 million guns currently in existence in America NOW"

Bullshit. There's got to be twice that number. Please provide a source.

"They aren't going to "magically" disappear."

Law enforcement isn't magic.

" If you can not understand how criminals are going to stumble themselves upon a gun "here or there" then I don't think I should keep speaking to you"

Then stop wasting my time with your nonsensical suggestion that it is impossible to criminalise and seize weapons, or that it won't become at all harder to obtain a gun when guns are illegal.

Reality is a bitch. Too bad you don't understand how it works.

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???? Your post isn't even

???? Your post isn't even internally consistent

 

Vastet wrote:
Bullshit. There's got to be twice that number.

Vastet wrote:

Law enforcement isn't magic.  

Vastet wrote:

Then stop wasting my time with your nonsensical suggestion that it is impossible to criminalise and seize weapons

So 

P1: There are well over 278 million guns in the US

P2: Law enforcement isn't magic

How do those two assumptions lead you to conclude that it is possible to seize all or even a majority of weapons? It seems to me the rational conclusion from these two assumptions is that removing all firearms would be an impossible task. Especially when you consider the American mentality and many of us would choose to become criminals rather than surrender our firearms to government agents. If a government agent knocks on my door demanding I turn over my guns, I start shooting, and I would not be alone.  

 

All I can say is

Vastet wrote:

Reality is a bitch. Too bad you don't understand how it works.

 

FYI, the 270 million figure comes from a small arms survey conducted in 2007 by the Graduate Institute of International Studies in Geneva. 

http://www.smallarmssurvey.org/weapons-and-markets/stockpiles/civilian-inventories.html

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:I used

Beyond Saving wrote:

I used the M-45 MEU(SOC) a little bit in training and used it for qualification once, so maybe a couple hundred rounds, can't exactly claim to be an expert with the weapon. We only had about 50 of them in the armory and the ones we had were so modified by PWS that the only Colt part left was the frame which more often than not was ancient. Although I understand that to reduce the burden on PWS the Corps is purchasing an off the shelf version of the 1070RG made by Colt that should be making their way down the food chain over the next couple of years. I'm not entirely sure how much Colt modified it from the civilian version of the 1070RG, my impression from what I have read is that the changes are mostly cosmetic, I think the guts are virtually identical but don't quote me on that. It passed muster with the guys at MARSOC so that is enough of a recommendation to me.

 

  In spite of your limited range time with this particular pistol but in light of your legitimate military insider status ...and the apparent approval of your  military co-workers... I'll take that as a tentative "yes" regarding this pistol.  I'm still reading about it on various forums by my first impression is that it would be a dependable gun.  I've never owned a Colt firearm in any category.

 

 

Beyond Saving wrote:
I knew a guy who participated in a lot of pistol competitions and he always used the M9 because he swore it was more accurate, but I don't know anyone going into a combat situation that wouldn't choose the M-45 because of its reliability in adverse conditions and it can hold up under extraordinary use. Besides, with a .45 one hole in the target will do the trick, even if it isn't the most accurate shot.

 

    I've got a new Beretta M92A1 and it is indeed an accurate gun ( 17+1 ) and it has a surprisingly light trigger pull.  It's a great gun and I'm proud to own it but I am in agreement that for self defense I prefer the 45 ACP ( whether it's fired from a 1911 or a Glock or a Sig, etc )

 

Beyond Saving wrote:
At that time my sole life goal was to become a sniper so whenever I had range time I wanted to use the M-40A1 or the M-82A3. I considered spending range time with pistols to be a waste, I spent just enough time to make sure I qualified comfortably. In retrospect, probably a stupid attitude because of you miss a target with the rifle you will probably get another shot. As a sniper, if you are using your secondary weapon, your life is in serious jeopardy and now is not the time to be less than perfectly accurate. 

 

  It must have been fun training with those rifles and getting paid for it.  I've never been in the military but I used to go to machine gun shoots close to Kerrville, TX.   I've stood behind a trio of Barretts when they were each being fired.  There was all kinds of military grade weaponry out there both modern and ancient ( Uzis, MP40's, Beretta BM59's, Browning 1919A4's, Browning M2HB's, etc )  It was so cool to listen to the sound of full-autos echoing through the woods.

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Vastet wrote:Reality is a

Sorry.    I  detract.


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ProzacDeathWish wrote:  

ProzacDeathWish wrote:
 

  In spite of your limited range time with this particular pistol but in light of your legitimate military insider status ...and the apparent approval of your  military co-workers... I'll take that as a tentative "yes" regarding this pistol.  I'm still reading about it on various forums by my first impression is that it would be a dependable gun.  I've never owned a Colt firearm in any category.

 

I've had a few and have been very happy with them. I still have an old 2nd gen SAA revolver in .38 spc, it's nickel plated with the old style engraving. Beautiful gun and fun to take out and play with from time to time. 

 

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

  It must have been fun training with those rifles and getting paid for it.  I've never been in the military but I used to go to machine gun shoots close to Kerrville, TX.   I've stood behind a trio of Barretts when they were each being fired.  There was all kinds of military grade weaponry out there both modern and ancient ( Uzis, MP40's, Beretta BM59's, Browning 1919A4's, Browning M2HB's, etc )  It was so cool to listen to the sound of full-autos echoing through the woods.

It was fun, but I got out before the wars and with the increased funding there have been a lot of new guns coming out. I would love to try out the new M27 IAR that is replacing the M247 SAW, the M39 EMR a much improved version of the M-14, the M-110 SASS, and not to mention the optics that they have today surpass anything I got to use. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Quote:How do those two

Quote:
How do those two assumptions lead you to conclude that it is possible to seize all or even a majority of weapons?

How would it not be? You guys seem to think I'm saying it can all be done overnight, which would be ridiculous. But over a period of a generation the ridiculous becomes easy. It's happened LITERALLY thousands of times in our history.

You're all deluding yourselves if you think for a second it couldn't be done.

Also, go ahead and shoot the cop at your door. I'll laugh as his 10 buddies empty so many rounds into you that you become a stain on the wall.

Every time gun discussion comes up it's always the same bullshit coming from deluded right wingers. It's like talking to theists who don't realise they are on the way out and their position is nonsensical.

I can only take so much stupidity from otherwise intelligent people before I give up trying to have a rational discussion with rabid gun owners who insist on being allowed to own a gun that won't help them resist the government,

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.. but can certainly serve

.. but can certainly serve well enough to mow down a crowd of civilians.

I'm not going to waste more time on you. I'm right, you're wrong, and anyone with a fully functional brain will agree.

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Vastet wrote: I'm right,

Vastet wrote:
I'm right, you're wrong, and anyone with a fully functional brain will agree.

I see, we are at the point where you realize you have nothing so you declare victory. Fortunately, you will never realize how wrong you are because the kind of strict gun ban you support will not gain favor in the US during our lifetime. For the most part, even the democrat party has abandoned the gun control issue after it backfired on them in the 90's. We might see stricter regulations on purchasing certain weapons at some point in the future but outright bans and confiscations of existing weapons will not have popular support anytime soon.

In recent years the trend has been towards reducing gun control regulations and increased civilian gun ownership. Which has not led to an increase in gun violence. In fact, gun violence in gross numbers has remained about the same, while as a proportion of our population has dropped substantially. But I know you are not interested in reality. So enjoy your imaginary victory. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Vastet wrote: How would it

Vastet wrote:
How would it not be? You guys seem to think I'm saying it can all be done overnight, which would be ridiculous. But over a period of a generation the ridiculous becomes easy.

Americans aren't going to give up their guns.   Ever.   Not me.   Not my children.   Not their children.

You don't understand Americans, Canuck.

You have a better chance of seeing us Americans storm DC than us giving up our weapons.

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Vastet wrote: Every time

Vastet wrote:
Every time gun discussion comes up it's always the same bullshit coming from deluded right wingers. It's like talking to theists who don't realise they are on the way out and their position is nonsensical.

And I find it hilarious that I'm considered by you a "right winger".   The stock broker that I talk with at work considers me a liberal, way left winger, hippy.

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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^ Idiots are always idiots

^ Idiots are always idiots

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Watcher wrote: Americans

Watcher wrote:

 

Americans aren't going to give up their guns.   Ever.   Not me.   Not my children.   Not their children.

 

 

  And the ironic thing is that whenever Congress begins debating that topic, civilian gun and ammo purchases absolutely sky rocket !  

"Most people are ass holes." Jesus of Nazareth


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Vastet wrote:^ Idiots are

Vastet wrote:
^ Idiots are always idiots

Really? Yeah, insult intelligence instead of giving your point of view. If you really wanted to 'not waste anymore time' than you wouldn't post such infantile remarks posturing for intellectual superiority.

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ProzacDeathWish

ProzacDeathWish wrote:

Watcher wrote:

 

Americans aren't going to give up their guns.   Ever.   Not me.   Not my children.   Not their children.

 

 

  And the ironic thing is that whenever Congress begins debating that topic, civilian gun and ammo purchases absolutely sky rocket !  

They are preparing for gun & ammo droughts, lol.

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In the animal kingdom . . . .

Vastet wrote:
     Also, go ahead and shoot the cop at your door. I'll laugh as his 10 buddies empty so many rounds into you that you become a stain on the wall. Every time gun discussion comes up it's always the same bullshit coming from deluded right wingers.


 

   I dont have overly strong opinions on this subject so I dont want to really comment. The only gun I own was locked away in an attic for 3/4 of a Century and I didnt even know of its' existence until about nine months ago. I am giving it to a gun collector for Christmas. By this act I dont feel I should weigh in.  Although, One point . . .

  I think you are pointing out what in the animal kingdom is fear agression. The important part being fear in its' emphasis should be placed on 'fear'. Most male family members I have at best might take a swing at a cop but he would have to be acting like a real prick before the temptation would arise, but that would be the only temptation. We are from a calm clan. Certainly not something deadly.


Watcher wrote:
.. Who's the idiot?  And you seem to be an odd mix of being arrogant but being very insecure at the same time.   You're all bluster and bluff.   What's up with that?  

It comes off as you being really immature.


   This is Jean territory I dont think it is fair to Vastet in the slightest.  Even if Vastet were to upset the hell out of me, I cannot ever imagine saying this to him, it's absurd, I think that would be plain to anyone.  (Forgive the typeos, I m tired at the moment)

 


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danatemporary wrote:  I

danatemporary wrote:

  I think you are pointing out what in the animal kingdom is fear agression. The important part being fear in its' emphasis should be placed on 'fear'. Most male family members I have at best might take a swing at a cop but he would have to be acting like a real prick before the temptation would arise, but that would be the only temptation. We are from a calm clan. Certainly not something deadly.

At the theoretical point where government agents are confiscating firearms the time for open revolution against government will have arrived. Once they take the firearms, open revolution is no longer a viable option. At that point, all "calm" options are off the table, so at that point the government better be willing to kill me because I will certainly be ready to kill them. I would also start shooting cops if the government was rounding up innocent groups of people into death camps and probably a few other things. It is difficult to determine exactly at which point violence is necessary, but there are a few government actions that cross a very bright line. Coming to your house to confiscate all your weapons is across that line.   

Is there any point at which you would consider revolting against the government? Or is that option always off the table for you?

 

danatemporary wrote:


Watcher wrote:
.. Who's the idiot?  And you seem be an odd mix of being arrogant but being very insecure at the same time.   You're all bluster and bluff.   What's up with that?  

It comes off as you being really immature.


   This is Jean territory I dont think it is fair to Vastet in the slightest.  Even if Vastet were to upset the hell out of me, I cannot ever imagine saying this to him, it's absurd, I think that would be plain to anyone.  (Forgive the typeos, I m tired at the moment)

When Vastet acts like Jean, why should we avoid treating him like Jean?

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X