Hiya I'm new from the U.K.

thelilith
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Hiya I'm new from the U.K.

Hiya – Would like to introduce myself.  I’m a nutritionist (specialising in weight loss) and an atheist (read your intro on this) but ‘til now have preferred to come at it from a psychological/Buddhist angle. But whaddya  expect? I’ve only ever used the Bible for a drinks tray…. okay, I’ve read it twice but NOW would like to explore the scientific side of the subject (have read NONE of the books you recommend) so am very much a beginner. Would like to contribute here, in the meantime, if something interesting comes up and oh yeah…I’m from the U.K. so sometimes there’ll be language differences.

 

And, talking of which, cultural differences too, a couple of years ago I was banned from the famous US Heartless Bitch forum for questioning the sanity/commonsense of an Orthodox Jewish lady (yeah, she was nice) who was swimming, daily, in full clothes, topped with a scheitel.  Pretty soon I found, in their eyes, I was a fucking ‘white supremacist’ plus the obligatory troll label and me thinking the State and religion were separate in the U.S. Constitution?  Strange this, ‘cos in Britain we don’t have your kinda ‘proper’ one (the Constitution that is) BUT on the other hand us Brits are a hellavulot more relaxed than you guys about religion.  Trust me on this. 

 

Since then I’ve contributed to an Amazon community, alongside my hubby but we’ve both been ‘outed’ as trolls when we just didn’t agree with the other camp, that’s all.

I’m wondering how long it’ll be before someone ‘calls me’ on here but hey... I’m just soooo used to it!

 

 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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Hi ya-self.

 

 

 

                  Welcome on board .  It is hard to get band from this site but we do have troll badges to reward to the deserving.  I'm in Canada near Toronto. Post early and often. 

 

 

 

"Very funny Scotty; now beam down our clothes."

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Welcome!I've been banned

Welcome!

I've been banned from a LOT of forums, but way back when, I was made a mod here (asked to be removed when I was taking a break).

So I doubt you'll have any problem here.

I live in Texas but I've visited the UK a couple times.   Great country.  I really enjoyed my visits there.   Unlike France.  Sticking out tongue

"I am an atheist, thank God." -Oriana Fallaci


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Hi

I'm in Portland, Or which I am informed is very similar in climate to the British Isles.  I have never had a chance to visit so I don't have personal experience.  Like my avatar, I am not young and female, and I look more like Maxine every day.  <sigh>

Glad to have you around.  Post early and often. 

(This is a joke as there was a time and place where and when people did vote multiple times illegally but were encouraged to do so by the local political "bosses".  Unlike the current media/political frenzy, they were legal citizens of the US.  And they were expected to vote for the candidates the "bosses" supported.  So the original phrase is "vote early and often."  I don't know if there is a comparable phrase in the UK.)

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

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Hi OP

Hi OP

You've been outted as trolls for just disagreeing with them. hmmm, why does that sound so familiar. I can't put my finger on it. Outted as trolls for simply disagreeing with somebody.

Well, we would all agree in this case that this is an ad hominem attack then to out somedody as a troll just because they are agreesive and win every argument. It's a fascination essay.

I have worked with Amazon for consultation, this was a while ago.  They are pretty intense.

Anyway, back to the commend about a troll for simply disagreeing and kicking everybodie's but. Can somebody help me, I just can't get the comparison. Wait, i'm close, it's coming, here it comes, oh no I lost it.

Anyway, are you an atheist, satanist, agnostic, wiccan, from the school of thelma, panentheist, or other? Please describe other if applicable.

Troll just for disagreeing. Damn, I just can't remember why this is so familiar.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).

A Rational Christian of Intelligence (rare)with a valid and sound justification for my epistemology and a logical refutation for those with logical fallacies and false worldviews upon their normative of thinking in retrospect to objective normative(s). This is only understood via the imago dei in which we all are.

Respectfully,

Jean Chauvin (Jude 3).


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Ya that is odd. It can't

Ya that is odd. It can't possibly be because you're an arrogant, ignorant, disrespectful, hypocrite asshole who loses every time he posts but is delusional enough to think not responding means you win.

Oh wait, that's exactly why you're labelled 'troll'.

Welcome, thelilith! As you can see, here it is the theists who have a lot of mouth and nothing to back it up, who are rightfully labelled trolls.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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Gerrymandering

cj wrote:

  Post early and often. 

(This is a joke as there was a time and place where and when people did vote multiple times illegally but were encouraged to do so by the local political "bosses".  Unlike the current media/political frenzy, they were legal citizens of the US.  And they were expected to vote for the candidates the "bosses" supported.  So the original phrase is "vote early and often."  I don't know if there is a comparable phrase in the UK.)

 

Hi cj, thanks for the welcome and the tip, I was scratching my head a bit wondering and yep, we do have a comparable for rigging the votes so you get more than one, it's called gerrymandering taken from Gerry Mander's name.  It started in Ireland about 100 years ago then passed to the States.  Here's a wiki link:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

 

 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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Or other if applicable....

Jean Chauvin wrote:

You've been outted as trolls for just disagreeing with them. hmmm, why does that sound so familiar. I can't put my finger on it. Outted as trolls for simply disagreeing with somebody......

Anyway, are you an atheist, satanist, agnostic, wiccan, from the school of thelma, panentheist, or other? Please describe other if applicable.

 

Hi Jean, I thought you were welcoming me but it sounds more like a whinge or is it that you just don't feel loved and appreciated around here.

Didn't I make it plain in my intro where I stood, although being of the therapeutic persuasion I don't care much for labels, or is that just me.

 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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Welcome! And remember Jesus

Welcome! And remember Jesus is a myth who never actually existed on earth!


cj
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thelilith wrote:Hi cj,

thelilith wrote:

Hi cj, thanks for the welcome and the tip, I was scratching my head a bit wondering and yep, we do have a comparable for rigging the votes so you get more than one, it's called gerrymandering taken from Gerry Mander's name.  It started in Ireland about 100 years ago then passed to the States.  Here's a wiki link:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is semi-legal.  Depending on your interpretation of redistricting laws.  No, this was blatant stuffing the ballot box.  I was told - and really don't feel up to researching to verify this early (for me) in the day - that ballots were examined before being submitted to the election officials to be sure you voted "correctly."  I'm sure one of the history buffs who hangs on the board will correct me.  I always like to be corrected when I am wrong.  I'd rather look like an idiot than remain an idiot.

 

-- I feel so much better since I stopped trying to believe.

"We are entitled to our own opinions. We're not entitled to our own facts"- Al Franken

"If death isn't sweet oblivion, I will be severely disappointed" - Ruth M.


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cj wrote:thelilith wrote:Hi

cj wrote:

thelilith wrote:

Hi cj, thanks for the welcome and the tip, I was scratching my head a bit wondering and yep, we do have a comparable for rigging the votes so you get more than one, it's called gerrymandering taken from Gerry Mander's name.  It started in Ireland about 100 years ago then passed to the States.  Here's a wiki link:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is semi-legal.  Depending on your interpretation of redistricting laws.  No, this was blatant stuffing the ballot box.  I was told - and really don't feel up to researching to verify this early (for me) in the day - that ballots were examined before being submitted to the election officials to be sure you voted "correctly."  I'm sure one of the history buffs who hangs on the board will correct me.  I always like to be corrected when I am wrong.  I'd rather look like an idiot than remain an idiot.

 

http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/pictures/

Since voting procedures are decided by the states there have literally been hundreds of different voting procedures at one point or another. With the early paper ballots they had to be folded up to fit into the box, it wasn't difficult for someone to fold up two or more ballots together. Some states, in an effort to prevent ballot stuffing, would require that an official unfold the ballot to ensure it was only one ballot before folding it back up and putting it in the box. It isn't a very large leap to assume that in certain corrupt precincts the officials were bribed to either ignore fraud that favored a certain party, or even to participate in the fraud and having the opportunity to handle the ballot certainly gave them the opportunity. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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thelilith wrote:Jean Chauvin

thelilith wrote:

Jean Chauvin wrote:

You've been outted as trolls for just disagreeing with them. hmmm, why does that sound so familiar. I can't put my finger on it. Outted as trolls for simply disagreeing with somebody......

Anyway, are you an atheist, satanist, agnostic, wiccan, from the school of thelma, panentheist, or other? Please describe other if applicable.

 

Hi Jean, I thought you were welcoming me but it sounds more like a whinge or is it that you just don't feel loved and appreciated around here.

Didn't I make it plain in my intro where I stood, although being of the therapeutic persuasion I don't care much for labels, or is that just me.

 

Welcome to the forum thelillith.

My advice would be to ignore him completely. He did not get the badge "theistard troll" for nothing.

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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Oh right, gotcha.....two

Oh right, gotcha.....two heads, one asshole.

 

Thanks for all your welcomes.


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Beyond Saving wrote:cj

Beyond Saving wrote:

cj wrote:

thelilith wrote:

Hi cj, thanks for the welcome and the tip, I was scratching my head a bit wondering and yep, we do have a comparable for rigging the votes so you get more than one, it's called gerrymandering taken from Gerry Mander's name.  It started in Ireland about 100 years ago then passed to the States.  Here's a wiki link:

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering

 

Gerrymandering is semi-legal.  Depending on your interpretation of redistricting laws.  No, this was blatant stuffing the ballot box.  I was told - and really don't feel up to researching to verify this early (for me) in the day - that ballots were examined before being submitted to the election officials to be sure you voted "correctly."  I'm sure one of the history buffs who hangs on the board will correct me.  I always like to be corrected when I am wrong.  I'd rather look like an idiot than remain an idiot.

 

http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/pictures/

Since voting procedures are decided by the states there have literally been hundreds of different voting procedures at one point or another. With the early paper ballots they had to be folded up to fit into the box, it wasn't difficult for someone to fold up two or more ballots together. Some states, in an effort to prevent ballot stuffing, would require that an official unfold the ballot to ensure it was only one ballot before folding it back up and putting it in the box. It isn't a very large leap to assume that in certain corrupt precincts the officials were bribed to either ignore fraud that favored a certain party, or even to participate in the fraud and having the opportunity to handle the ballot certainly gave them the opportunity. 

As an aside, completely off topic. I did see a documentary on Edgar Allen Poe that went through his life and even described his questionable death. The historians they quoted in the documentary said he MAY HAVE been partaking in voter fraud when they found him dead. He was a suspected alcoholic, and some suspected that he earned money by changing his cloths and appearance re voting at different polling places. He was found limp  and unconscious in cloths that did not fit him outside a bar close to a polling place. He died days later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Edgar_Allan_Poe. But that was then.

 

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Brian37 wrote: As an aside,

Brian37 wrote:
As an aside, completely off topic. I did see a documentary on Edgar Allen Poe that went through his life and even described his questionable death. The historians they quoted in the documentary said he MAY HAVE been partaking in voter fraud when they found him dead. He was a suspected alcoholic, and some suspected that he earned money by changing his cloths and appearance re voting at different polling places. He was found limp  and unconscious in cloths that did not fit him outside a bar close to a polling place. He died days later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Edgar_Allan_Poe. But that was then.


Beyond Saving wrote:
http://homepage.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/voting/pictures/
Since voting procedures are decided by the states there have literally been hundreds of different voting procedures at one point or another. With the early paper ballots they had to be folded up to fit into the box, it wasn't difficult for someone to fold up two or more ballots together. Some states, in an effort to prevent ballot stuffing, would require that an official unfold the ballot to ensure it was only one ballot before folding it back up and putting it in the box. It isn't a very large leap to assume that in certain corrupt precincts the officials were bribed to either ignore fraud that favored a certain party, or even to participate in the fraud and having the opportunity to handle the ballot certainly gave them the opportunity.

Off subject again, yes, was it murder or was Poe a victim of his own intemperance and if you like Gothic Horror ‘The Black Cat’ (Poe’s allegorical tale of animal abuse, depicting the narrator’s descent into hatred) was almost a prophesy of his own demise.

http://classiclit.about.com/od/blackcatedgarallanpoe/a/blackcat_eapoe.htm

And this is now, on the subject of vote rigging I don’t know whether anyone has heard of Codex (I certainly hadn’t). It looks like what this quango gets up to is a sign ‘they’re’ at it again; by, effectively, giving the green light for Ractopamine (steroids) to be part of the food chain.  Given the history of steroids I think it’s important more of us know about this story but do appreciate we’re just flickering candles:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/

 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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thelilith wrote:And this is

thelilith wrote:

And this is now, on the subject of vote rigging I don’t know whether anyone has heard of Codex (I certainly hadn’t). It looks like what this quango gets up to is a sign ‘they’re’ at it again; by, effectively, giving the green light for Ractopamine (steroids) to be part of the food chain.  Given the history of steroids I think it’s important more of us know about this story but do appreciate we’re just flickering candles:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/

Is there any evidence that eating the meat of ractopamine treated animals is dangerous? I tried to find some but all I found was the same group of people hysterically pointing out that the drug is deadly to humans which is completely irrelevant. To me it has very much the same flavor of the nuts running around telling people not to get vaccines. The movement seems to have a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric but very few facts. I imagine somewhere there has to be a scientific study of the effects of eating the meat on people, I couldn't find it though. 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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Beyond Saving wrote:Is there

Beyond Saving wrote:
Is there any evidence that eating the meat of ractopamine treated animals is dangerous? I tried to find some but all I found was the same group of people hysterically pointing out that the drug is deadly to humans which is completely irrelevant. To me it has very much the same flavor of the nuts running around telling people not to get vaccines. The movement seems to have a lot of hyperbolic rhetoric but very few facts. I imagine somewhere there has to be a scientific study of the effects of eating the meat on people, I couldn't find it though.

Testing will never be finished on the effects of steroids on humans but using ractopamine on animals will increase the lean meat percentage by say 2.1%, a big dividend and if you’re a pig, yes, there’s a cruelty issue. It’s known to cause fatigue and various mobility issues (difficulty in standing up and slow movements).

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120218000030&cid=1103&MainCatID=0

Given the research on steroids, generally, I’d only take them if I’m in a life threatening situation but transparency is the real problem.  If individuals are neutral about eating this type of meat that’s fine but without awareness there isn’t a choice.


 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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thelilith wrote:Testing will

thelilith wrote:

Testing will never be finished on the effects of steroids on humans but using ractopamine on animals will increase the lean meat percentage by say 2.1%, a big dividend and if you’re a pig, yes, there’s a cruelty issue. It’s known to cause fatigue and various mobility issues (difficulty in standing up and slow movements).

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20120218000030&cid=1103&MainCatID=0

Given the research on steroids, generally, I’d only take them if I’m in a life threatening situation but transparency is the real problem.  If individuals are neutral about eating this type of meat that’s fine but without awareness there isn’t a choice.

Yeah, I understand that it has negative side effects on some animals, especially if used in doses too high. As far as the animal cruelty I can sympathize, there are several pig farms around where I live and the reality of factory farming is that it is disgusting and the living conditions are not pleasant for the animals (or the workers for that matter). There simply is no way to feed the world population while providing livestock with anything approaching comfortable living conditions. I am disturbed by it and I am an active hunter. However, we have to eat and I am inclined to give more moral importance to humans than to animals since it is not practical for everyone in the world to provide meat for themselves like I do. 

 

If, if a white man puts his arm around me voluntarily, that's brotherhood. But if you - if you hold a gun on him and make him embrace me and pretend to be friendly or brotherly toward me, then that's not brotherhood, that's hypocrisy.- Malcolm X


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What will they say .. What will they say ?

 > What will they say .. What will they say ?

harleysportster wrote:

Welcome to the forum thelillith.

My advice would be to ignore him completely. He did not get the badge "theistard troll" for nothing.

     Jean  is thinkin'  Please let it be something .. anything . . .

 


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Beyond Saving wrote: Yeah, I

Beyond Saving wrote:
Yeah, I understand that it has negative side effects on some animals, especially if used in doses too high. As far as the animal cruelty I can sympathize, there are several pig farms around where I live and the reality of factory farming is that it is disgusting and the living conditions are not pleasant for the animals (or the workers for that matter). There simply is no way to feed the world population while providing livestock with anything approaching comfortable living conditions. I am disturbed by it and I am an active hunter. However, we have to eat and I am inclined to give more moral importance to humans than to animals since it is not practical for everyone in the world to provide meat for themselves like I do.

 
I agree with your post, and before I moved to the city came from a similar farming/hunting background.

With regard to safety for humans there has been a long stalemate over the adoption of a standard for ractopamine MRLs (Maximum Residual Levels) between the pro and anti-ractopamine groups but my concern is about the quality of science that was used by Codex to establish this.  I’ve managed to find the evaluation that was submitted by JECFA and which was grabbed by the drug promoters as ‘proof’ of its safety. (It’s certainly difficult as you said in your previous post to obtain any conclusive evidence of studies carried out on ractopamine and accusations have been levelled at Elanca a division of Eli Lilly that they have suppressed evidence).
 http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/doc/1041.pdf

When this report was presented to Codex by the delegate, as representative for the pro-ractopamine group, the fact that the study groups consisted of only six males and some monkeys (the embarrassing dog study was omitted from the reports and one male dropped out) was completely overlooked.

The NHF (The National Health Federation, which is the only official body appointed to monitor Codex) president Scott Tips said this about the result:
“The narrow vote reflects the absurdity of this aspect of Codex.  Here you have less than 30% of the World’s pork-consuming countries dictating standards to the other 70% plus of the World!  The European Union, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, Russia, Kenya, and China correctly argued throughout that the science on Ractopamine was not settled, that this standard was not about health but about pushing commercial profits instead, and that Codex would be damaged by the adoption of this unhealthy standard.  In fact, that is exactly what will unfold as a result of today’s decision: Codex has lost whatever scientific credibility it ever had, even amongst those who have been its biggest supporters.  Despite especially the EU representatives’ herculean efforts – and they are truly the unsung heroines of the day – bad science and ill-health prevailed today, and the World is a worse place for it.”


 

 

Real change will come when it is brought about, not by your ego, but by reality.
Tony de Mello


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welcome to the forum  

welcome to the forum Smiling

 


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Welcome . . .

 Hey,  Big welcome to this forum . .