Should people of religious backgrounds be allowed to teach/be teachers?

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Should people of religious backgrounds be allowed to teach/be teachers?

Perhaps the most common answer you'd get for this is as long as they don't deal out their religion and teach what they're supposed to teach it's all good right? Ok, I can deal with that.

Well the reason I brought this up is become I have a friend who came a family of extremely religious people. Anyway, though she is the only one who is no longer religious, she has a brother who still is and is a College level teacher, teaching physiology, human anatomy (I think) and zoology.

 

Now I've been told his viewpoint when he comes across from teaching and goes into any evolutionary traits, his lectures and teaching output result and sound similar to that of a creationist.

 

Are these type of people really eligible for degrees or to even be able to teach this stuff when they have extremely skewered views and logic of stuff like this?

 

Just thoughts.


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 Yes they should. All

 Yes they should. All students should learn not to accept everything any teacher says as the absolute truth and in a way the more absurd the things a teacher is saying are the more likely students are to question it and research the subject on their own. At least half of what I learned in public schools was absolute bullshit so I don't see why we should worry about this bullshit without worrying about all the other bullshit. Instead of worrying about a particular bullshit belief that teachers have we should restructure the entire public education system away from the lecture model where the teacher speaks and the students are expected to accept it all as the absolute truth, towards a system where the teacher encourages students to research subjects for themselves. Until that happens students are at the mercy of the biases of a teacher whether they are religious, political etc and our public educated school population will remain ignorant except for the few who learn on their own. No teacher deserves so much authority that whatever they say is blindly accepted as fact. 

 

Knowing that "B" is the correct answer on the multiple choice test is far less important that the ability the gather information and proof that B is in fact the correct answer. Even for subjects that have an objectively right and wrong answer like mathematics, it is far more important to be able to create a formula and prove it than it is to memorize a series of formulas that you will likely forget next year. It is far more important to have the ability to analyze raw data that supports the laws of physics rather than to simply memorize the laws. If teachers are teaching how to learn rather than simply lecturing the teachers personal views are irrelevant regardless of how crazy they might be. 

I just usually go with my own taste. If I like something, and it happens to be against the law, well, then I might have a problem.- Hunter S. Thompson


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Beyond Saving wrote: Yes

Beyond Saving wrote:

 Yes they should. All students should learn not to accept everything any teacher says as the absolute truth and in a way the more absurd the things a teacher is saying are the more likely students are to question it and research the subject on their own. At least half of what I learned in public schools was absolute bullshit so I don't see why we should worry about this bullshit without worrying about all the other bullshit. Instead of worrying about a particular bullshit belief that teachers have we should restructure the entire public education system away from the lecture model where the teacher speaks and the students are expected to accept it all as the absolute truth, towards a system where the teacher encourages students to research subjects for themselves. Until that happens students are at the mercy of the biases of a teacher whether they are religious, political etc and our public educated school population will remain ignorant except for the few who learn on their own. No teacher deserves so much authority that whatever they say is blindly accepted as fact. 

 

Knowing that "B" is the correct answer on the multiple choice test is far less important that the ability the gather information and proof that B is in fact the correct answer. Even for subjects that have an objectively right and wrong answer like mathematics, it is far more important to be able to create a formula and prove it than it is to memorize a series of formulas that you will likely forget next year. It is far more important to have the ability to analyze raw data that supports the laws of physics rather than to simply memorize the laws. If teachers are teaching how to learn rather than simply lecturing the teachers personal views are irrelevant regardless of how crazy they might be. 

I gotta agree with Beyond on that. If I know which answer is the correct answer on a test and have no clue as to how I arrived at that answer, then learning is useless. 

I think it was rednef that once posted : The biggest problem with people, is not that they are taught what to think, but they are not taught HOW to think. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster wrote:I

harleysportster wrote:

I gotta agree with Beyond on that. If I know which answer is the correct answer on a test and have no clue as to how I arrived at that answer, then learning is useless. 

I think it was rednef that once posted : The biggest problem with people, is not that they are taught what to think, but they are not taught HOW to think. 

First, I agree with you agreeing with Beyond.

The issue I see isn't the "religious beliefs" aspect of someone, but how their religious beliefs inform their view of reality.  Secular teachers who teach to the test are just as bad as religious teachers who teach to the literal meaning of (poorly interpreted) scripture.

Some of y'all might not want me teaching your kids Science because you'd be afraid they'd hear the word "G-d" from time to time, but I don't think many of you would be afraid they wouldn't actually learn actual Science.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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There is NO WAY a religious

There is NO WAY a religious loon teacher should be allowed to teach a bunch of innocent students! Creationism has already been totally debunked and many Christians don't even agree with it!

You guys realize there are creationsim stores from cultures and religions all over the world? Why not teach those too?

Click here to find out why Christianity is the biggest fairy tale ever created!! www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm www.JesusNEVERexisted.com


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JesusNEVERexisted

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

There is NO WAY a religious loon teacher should be allowed to teach a bunch of innocent students! Creationism has already been totally debunked and many Christians don't even agree with it!

You guys realize there are creationsim stores from cultures and religions all over the world? Why not teach those too?

I agree and have a major problem with creationism being taught in the classroom. Might as well teach "Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter" as part of history. 

But, if the teacher is not pushing his/her religious agenda into the curriculum of the classroom, that to me, would be another matter. 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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harleysportster

harleysportster wrote:

JesusNEVERexisted wrote:

There is NO WAY a religious loon teacher should be allowed to teach a bunch of innocent students! Creationism has already been totally debunked and many Christians don't even agree with it!

You guys realize there are creationsim stores from cultures and religions all over the world? Why not teach those too?

I agree and have a major problem with creationism being taught in the classroom. Might as well teach "Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter" as part of history. 

But, if the teacher is not pushing his/her religious agenda into the curriculum of the classroom, that to me, would be another matter. 

It was taught in public schools that George Washington was the first president of the United States, he had wooden teeth, chopped down a cherry tree and never told a lie. That the income tax was constitutional and legal, that it helped pay for schools, roads and defense, that Ramapithecus, Australopithecus were our ancestors, the Gulf of Tonkin happened and no doubt soon if not already that 911 was conducted by 19 radical Islamic terrorists, many of whom are still alive.

You have a problem with someone teaching something that opposes your world view. Which is bullshit. Every bit as much bullshit as YEC.

Where do you think all of those creation stories originated? Specifically, what place? And most certainly why not teach those?


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The Theist wrote: It was

The Theist wrote:

 

It was taught in public schools that George Washington was the first president of the United States, he had wooden teeth, chopped down a cherry tree and never told a lie. That the income tax was constitutional and legal, that it helped pay for schools, roads and defense, that Ramapithecus, Australopithecus were our ancestors, the Gulf of Tonkin happened and no doubt soon if not already that 911 was conducted by 19 radical Islamic terrorists, many of whom are still alive.

You have a problem with someone teaching something that opposes your world view. Which is bullshit. Every bit as much bullshit as YEC.

Where do you think all of those creation stories originated? Specifically, what place? And most certainly why not teach those?

I was never taught that George Washington has wooden teeth, nor about the cherry tree and such. We were taught that all of those were just the stuff of folklore. 

I'm not even going to bother answering the rest of that, it is pointless. 

I will say that I am glad that sci-fi hacks like yourself are not doing all the teaching. 

Personal opinion or bullshit ideals have no place in 2x + 15 = 20 find the value of x. Nor does it have a place in subject/verb agreements nor in any other subjects. 

Did I ever make the assertion that there was no bias in the schools or the teachers ? I think not. 

By your logic, because there is nonsense in the school systems ( as evidenced by our grade scores in comparison with the rest of the world) we should just have a free for all and allow ALL the bullshit to be taught. 

I am sure that students could really learn a lot by reading the Pathway Machine and Star Wars. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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I'd say religious teachers

I'd say religious teachers should be limited to teaching language and arts. Allowing them to teach science allows them to subvert it. While not all religious teachers would do so, each teacher can be responsible for the education of dozens or hundreds, sometimes thousands, of students. One teacher can corrupt an unacceptable number of students educations. The risk to those students educations outweighs any argument against such a policy.

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Vastet wrote:I'd say

Vastet wrote:
I'd say religious teachers should be limited to teaching language and arts. Allowing them to teach science allows them to subvert it. While not all religious teachers would do so, each teacher can be responsible for the education of dozens or hundreds, sometimes thousands, of students. One teacher can corrupt an unacceptable number of students educations. The risk to those students educations outweighs any argument against such a policy.

I'd say that teachers who can't keep their religious doctrine out of the classroom need to be kept out of the public school system.

I don't have a problem with a teacher who happens to be a Buddhist, Christian, Jew, Mormon, Muslim, etc. making it known that they are one, but there are plenty of students who don't share their religious beliefs who don't need to be turned into potential proselytes to their religion, or lack thereof.

There's a saying in the military -- "We're not here to practice Democracy, we're here to protect it." -- and the same goes for teachers.  They weren't hired to practice their religion, or lack thereof, they were hired to provide children with an education based on generally accepted norms within their subject matter area.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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harleysportster wrote:I was

harleysportster wrote:
I was never taught that George Washington has wooden teeth, nor about the cherry tree and such. We were taught that all of those were just the stuff of folklore. 

I'm not even going to bother answering the rest of that, it is pointless. 

I will say that I am glad that sci-fi hacks like yourself are not doing all the teaching. 

Personal opinion or bullshit ideals have no place in 2x + 15 = 20 find the value of x. Nor does it have a place in subject/verb agreements nor in any other subjects. 

Did I ever make the assertion that there was no bias in the schools or the teachers ? I think not. 

By your logic, because there is nonsense in the school systems ( as evidenced by our grade scores in comparison with the rest of the world) we should just have a free for all and allow ALL the bullshit to be taught. 

I am sure that students could really learn a lot by reading the Pathway Machine and Star Wars. 

School teachers are the second dumbest people on the planet, only cops are more arrogantly ignorant than school teachers and you are worried about their qualification to indoctrinate future generations with your failed metaphysical experiment called theory of evolution. That's why American Public educations sucks ass. Not because it is less inclined to buy into the aforementioned experiment.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:There's

FurryCatHerder wrote:
There's a saying in the military -- "We're not here to practice Democracy, we're here to protect it."

Yeah. That's why they are here, and there, and everywhere there is Gold, Oil and Drugs. They call it GOD. Democracy. What an abomination.  


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The Theist

The Theist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:
There's a saying in the military -- "We're not here to practice Democracy, we're here to protect it."

Yeah. That's why they are here, and there, and everywhere there is Gold, Oil and Drugs. They call it GOD. Democracy. What an abomination.  

Sorry -- you're a Theistard Troll.  I get to ignore you and not feel bad about it.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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FurryCatHerder wrote:The

FurryCatHerder wrote:

The Theist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:
There's a saying in the military -- "We're not here to practice Democracy, we're here to protect it."

Yeah. That's why they are here, and there, and everywhere there is Gold, Oil and Drugs. They call it GOD. Democracy. What an abomination.  

Sorry -- you're a Theistard Troll.  I get to ignore you and not feel bad about it.

But keep in mind that it isn't accidental.


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FurryCatHerder wrote:I'd say

FurryCatHerder wrote:
I'd say that teachers who can't keep their religious doctrine out of the classroom need to be kept out of the public school system.

Unfortunately there is no way to tell the two types apart from each other short of constant supervision, which would disrupt classes and undermine the teachers' authority.

Proud Canadian, Enlightened Atheist, Gaming God.


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The Theist .. ..

The Theist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:

The Theist wrote:

FurryCatHerder wrote:
There's a saying in the military -- "We're not here to practice Democracy, we're here to protect it."

Yeah. That's why they are here, and there, and everywhere there is Gold, Oil and Drugs. They call it GOD. Democracy. What an abomination.  

Sorry -- you're a Theistard Troll.  I get to ignore you and not feel bad about it.

But keep in mind that it isn't accidental.

    The Theist  -- But, The label may have come about accidentally. There is always the possibility 'the label' was a blunder (in the first place though). IMHO, In all fairness, It is worth reviewing. 

 

 

 

 

 


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The Theist

The Theist wrote:

harleysportster wrote:
I was never taught that George Washington has wooden teeth, nor about the cherry tree and such. We were taught that all of those were just the stuff of folklore. 

I'm not even going to bother answering the rest of that, it is pointless. 

I will say that I am glad that sci-fi hacks like yourself are not doing all the teaching. 

Personal opinion or bullshit ideals have no place in 2x + 15 = 20 find the value of x. Nor does it have a place in subject/verb agreements nor in any other subjects. 

Did I ever make the assertion that there was no bias in the schools or the teachers ? I think not. 

By your logic, because there is nonsense in the school systems ( as evidenced by our grade scores in comparison with the rest of the world) we should just have a free for all and allow ALL the bullshit to be taught. 

I am sure that students could really learn a lot by reading the Pathway Machine and Star Wars. 

School teachers are the second dumbest people on the planet, only cops are more arrogantly ignorant than school teachers and you are worried about their qualification to indoctrinate future generations with your failed metaphysical experiment called theory of evolution. That's why American Public educations sucks ass. Not because it is less inclined to buy into the aforementioned experiment.

Right. I am sure the Pathway Machine explains it all so much better. 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno


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danatemporary wrote:   

danatemporary wrote:
    The Theist  -- But, The label may have come about accidentally. There is always the possibility 'the label' was a blunder (in the first place though). IMHO, In all fairness, It is worth reviewing. 

Not exactly, Dana. Just because the atheist are almost completely stupid and incapable of learning anything doesn't mean they can't be accurately predicted and manipulated accordingly.


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Be under advisement (you may need a lawyer)

The Theist wrote:

danatemporary wrote:
    The Theist  -- But, The label may have come about accidentally. There is always the possibility 'the label' was a blunder (in the first place though). IMHO, In all fairness, It is worth reviewing. 

Not exactly, Dana. Just because the atheist are almost completely stupid and incapable of learning anything doesn't mean they can't be accurately predicted and manipulated accordingly.

  :~  Be under advisement,   you might be needing a lawyer  :~ 

 

 


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danatemporary wrote:  :~ 

danatemporary wrote:
  :~  Be under advisement,   you might be needing a lawyer  :~ 

Thanks for the advise, dear. The religious nuts usually threaten me with bodily harm or death when they can't defend their position. Its nice to know the atheist idiots use a more civil approach.


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: ) No threat it was ONLY a joke ... Reply to #19 . .

 No threat, No it was a joke  regarding  the site's badge and your recent comment (#19); representation WITH the site's administration. Believe me, the ":~ " indicates this.

 

 


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Vastet wrote:FurryCatHerder

Vastet wrote:
FurryCatHerder wrote:
I'd say that teachers who can't keep their religious doctrine out of the classroom need to be kept out of the public school system.
Unfortunately there is no way to tell the two types apart from each other short of constant supervision, which would disrupt classes and undermine the teachers' authority.

I don't know -- the teachers I had with an agenda were pretty obvious about it.  It's just that no one gave a damn.

For example, my US History teacher in High School cared more about our political views than our answers on tests.  She's an otherwise fine human being, and a credit to the species, but my politics weren't hers.  If I'd have been a couple of years younger, and had her when Reagan was president, I'm confident I'd have flunked.

There were coaches who were really big on the whole "prayer circle" thing.  Except they were Catholic and I wasn't and I didn't much care to pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Did anyone care they were getting a bit of indoctrination in with their regularly scheduled coursework?  Nope.

"Obviously I'm convinced of the existence of G-d. I'm equally convinced that Atheists who've led good lives will be in Olam HaBa going "How the heck did I wind up in this place?!?" while Christians who've treated people like dirt will be in some other place asking the exact same question."


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Yeah but this is in a

Yeah but this is in a society that has yet to truly separate church and state, religious education from standard.

If a teacher would face real risk of joblessness, then said teacher would face 3 scenarios.

1: Blatantly teach belief anyway, and get fired.
2: Not teach belief.
3: Teach belief subtly and deceptively to avoid the consequences of 1.

When looking at the history of humanity attempting to restrict products or ideas, it is clear that 3 is a viable strategy.

Whereas if those teachers are restricted to arts and language, there is a clear barrier between those subjects and the maths & sciences, and I'd have little problem with them saying what they want. If they knew what they were talking about, they'd be teaching the real courses instead of the conceptual ones, and this would (hopefully) be obvious to the average student.

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The Theist

The Theist wrote:

harleysportster wrote:
I was never taught that George Washington has wooden teeth, nor about the cherry tree and such. We were taught that all of those were just the stuff of folklore. 

I'm not even going to bother answering the rest of that, it is pointless. 

I will say that I am glad that sci-fi hacks like yourself are not doing all the teaching. 

Personal opinion or bullshit ideals have no place in 2x + 15 = 20 find the value of x. Nor does it have a place in subject/verb agreements nor in any other subjects. 

Did I ever make the assertion that there was no bias in the schools or the teachers ? I think not. 

By your logic, because there is nonsense in the school systems ( as evidenced by our grade scores in comparison with the rest of the world) we should just have a free for all and allow ALL the bullshit to be taught. 

I am sure that students could really learn a lot by reading the Pathway Machine and Star Wars. 

School teachers are the second dumbest people on the planet, only cops are more arrogantly ignorant than school teachers and you are worried about their qualification to indoctrinate future generations with your failed metaphysical experiment called theory of evolution. That's why American Public educations sucks ass. Not because it is less inclined to buy into the aforementioned experiment.

Oh man, I just love a huge negative generalization. I hope you don't ever complain when people make stupid vague assertions about groups YOU care about. Fuck you.

I can think of a dozen school teachers off-hand I know that would chew you up and spit you out in a mental contest. Most people in the Police AND Education fields care about their work. Most problems with either field comes from burnt-out members who cared so much that it ruined them.

Secularist, Atheist, Skeptic, Freethinker


Vastet
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Meh. I've known a lot more

Meh. I've known a lot more young, cocky, asshole cops than cops who really cared about helping people.

Having worked in law enforcement for a decade, my experience may not trump yours, but it certainly calls it into question.

Which is not to say good cops don't exist, merely that they are rare.

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Vastet wrote:Meh. I've known

Vastet wrote:
Meh. I've known a lot more young, cocky, asshole cops than cops who really cared about helping people. Having worked in law enforcement for a decade, my experience may not trump yours, but it certainly calls it into question. Which is not to say good cops don't exist, merely that they are rare.

I admit I am more talking about Education than Police, but still. The Theist can't complain about caricaturing when he is doing it in many posts.

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ThunderJones wrote: I admit

ThunderJones wrote:

 

I admit I am more talking about Education than Police, but still. The Theist can't complain about caricaturing when he is doing it in many posts.

The Theist is just an asshole. Plain and simple. I could not stand him, when he was posting here as David Henson. When he came here one day, insulted everyone and left, I was glad that he was gone. 

Not going to give his website any free advertising ( it is a waste of bandwidth) but I have been there. 

Bunch of bullshit ramblings about the "original" bible and he draws all of his sources from the Skeptic's Annotated Version of the Bible ( which seems to make him think he is some sort of religious authority over the whole entire thing) and a bunch of bullshit ramblings about this " book" he is working on called the Pathway Machine. 

(Reads like some horseshit that L. Ron Hubbard would have been proud of). 

He fancies himself some sort of intellectual and fails to see that he is just a fucking moron and they are a dime a dozen. 

There are 12 year olds that could come up with better sci-fi ideas and websites than his waste of bandwidth. 

He is a pain in the ass and I will be glad when he is gone. Hopefully for good next time. 

 

“It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.”
― Giordano Bruno